Does PETA make you uncomfortable?

[StopTheMorans]

[StopTheMorans]

1. i forgot to add: discuss

[ghostsofgiants]

2. Isn't that part of their M.O.?

[StopTheMorans]

3. among other things

[Shell Beau]

4. Now, this is going to be flamewar! And you got on to me

about my breastfeeding thread.

[StopTheMorans]

5. this is a copycat thread of your thread

[Shell Beau]

6. Really? Duh!

Just so you know my thread is going on very civilly. No flames! (at least so far) Even if this is a copycat, it could still turn ugly.

[StopTheMorans]

14. thank you, kind sharer of the obvious

all i was saying about your thread was that it was an issue that has been discussed ad nauseum around here, and that often devolves into a flamewar.

[Shell Beau]

18. I had no idea it had been discussed before.

I have only been here a few months. But many people told me and still no flames. Most everyone has the same opinion on that issue, at least so far.

[Texasgal]

7. Oh Shit!

Your baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

:popcorn:

[Shell Beau]

8. He's making fun of my breastfeeding thread!

[Texasgal]

11. Shell...

You have to understand STM... he's got a wicked sense of humor!

:evilgrin:

[Shell Beau]

13. Maybe so. He's been kind of mean to me, but oh well!

I am thick skinned.

[StopTheMorans]

15. mean is in the eye of the beholder

[Shell Beau]

17. Well I am the beholder and I say meanie!

[Sannum]

9. you are brave

:popcorn:

[StopTheMorans]

16. is that popcorn made with any animal byproducts?

possibly veal :shrug: if so, then pass it my way...

[Dr.Phool]

10. I love PITA

Nice scoop of tuna salad inside.

[Shell Beau]

12. Pita is the best! Mmmm!

[ronnykmarshall]

66. Or my cat Cosmo.

mmmmmmm! Cosmo pita salad.

[smbolisnch]

19. No.

Why does it make you uncomfortable? :shrug:

[StopTheMorans]

28. tactics that only serve to make the left look foolish and to alienate

people from their cause rather than to bring new people into the fold...

[smbolisnch]

30. Well, that argument could be used for people who

incessantly produce anti PETA, anti vegetarian/vegan and anti animal rights threads, simply to get a rise out of people who care about the cause as well. Don'tcha think?

[StopTheMorans]

40. sure

this was a copycat thread, and i haven't seen "incessant" PETA threads from anyone on DU except the PETA-pushers; to whom were you referring :shrug:

[smbolisnch]

41. Oh please......

That's funny, because you have been involved in SEVERAL of them.

[StopTheMorans]

55. "several" and "incessant" are quite different turns of phrase

and, when someone who likes PETA hijacks a thread to make a point and others respond to the uncalled-for hijacking, it is not akin to "starting an anti-PETA" thread.

[smbolisnch]

56. Quite different terms for quite different points.

In general, the threads on DU are incessant.
However, YOU are involved in several of them.
And since when is answering the original thread considered threadjacking? :shrug:

[StopTheMorans]

60. answering a thread that has nothing to do with PETA and making

a point that is basically a veiled attack on anyone who eats meat when it really doesn't pertain to the topic at hand IS a threadjacking.

[smbolisnch]

63. WTF are you talking about? The word in the thread title is PETA, correct?

You aren't even making sense.

[StopTheMorans]

74. i wasn't speaking about this thread

was it just me, or were we talking about other, "incessant" threads? this thread was started as a copycat, and not as one of a greater pattern of "incessant" attacks on PETA. re: other threads on PETA lately: those were ones that I responded to, and not started, as other users brought PETA issues into threads where they had no place being. please stop making me explain this like i'm talking to a child :banghead:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

42. From the right's point of view, every leftist tactic makes the left look

foolish.

Women's rights, minorities rights, civil liberties...at one time or another every one of these topics has been called a hinderence to the left.

We are what we are and the left should not forsake their morals to get the temporary vote of the wishy washy center because let's face it: If you are STILL center after all that has happened, you ARE wishy washy and you probably don't give a rats ass about what is going on anyway. I'm not going to sell my soul for a vote.

[CrispyQ]

53. How could they change their approach so that you wouldn't

think they were nutcases AND still pay attention to their message?


Don't attack . . . . suggest!

[Deep13]

20. Fuckin' A, Bubba.

Frankly, I lump them in with Fundies, astrologers and UFO conspiracy proponents. I mean that their views are based on gut feeling and not on any sort of ration thought.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. How do you provide "rational thought" for caring about any living thing?

Caring for the wellbeing of a living, breathing, feeling being is the same thing all around.

To care about the pain animals must endure is to acknowledge that they have a brain, a CNS and experience emotional traumas, things that are known scientific facts.

Actually, the "but it's just a cow" part is the gut feeling part. And to prove it, try posting "I don't care if people eat dogs, because it's just a dog".

[smbolisnch]

25. Or cats......try posting about eating cats.

Afterall, there is no difference between a cow, a dog or a cat.

[Deep13]

46. People can believe what they want ...

... but there is no public policy reason to protect the subjective feelings of domestic animals. There are compelling reasons to use animals to develop new medical applications. Bottom line, you want to protect domestic animals because you feel they are worth protecting. As far as eating meat, there are health and environmental reasons to avoid it, but that's not why most vegitarians do so. I am not willing to tell someone what he or she must eat or must not eat. That includes Fido. Personifying animals is no different than personifying a human embryo. In fact, I submit that the Fundies have a better case for protecting fetuses (feti?) than you do for protecting cattle and hogs.

I am all for conservation, but domestic animals don't fall under that umbrella as they are part of the problem. Hell, they wouldn't even exist if not for their use to humans.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

49. You don't want to protect animals because you feel they aren't worth it

We can go round and round with this all day.

"Domestic animals don't fall under that umbrella as they are part of the problem". You are right, the ranching of cattle has done enormous harm to the environment. As such, if this is what you really care about, why not blame the rancher, not the cow? No more huge factory farms, far less pollution and land waste.

An embryo is a clump of cells. An animal is not the potential for life, it IS life.

The past, ie. "they wouldn't be here if they were not of use to humans" is a poor excuse for our treatment of animals. Just because we brought them here to be useful to us does not mean we have the right to do as we wish with them.

[Deep13]

51. Everything is life.

You don't think a clump of cells are alive? They wouldn't work if they were not. Besides, a blastocyte is a clump of cells. An embryo is more developed than that. The bacteria that caused your last throat infection is life. The mildew that can grow in a bathroom is life. In case you haven't noticed, life is pretty cheap around here.

Cause-and-effect is not the same thing as blame.

"Just because we brought them here to be useful to us does not mean we have the right to do as we wish with them."

We did not just bring them here. We created them. Domestic species do not exist in nature. They are the products of centuries of artifical selection. I think that does give us the right.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

52. Ok, let me rephrase.

An animal is life that can feel, think and register emotion. An embryo cannot. Mildew cannot. Bacteria cannot.

We didn't create anything. We only modified. A domestic pig feels the same pain as a wild boar.

[name not needed]

21. Ooh, this is gonna be fun.

:popcorn:

[ronnykmarshall]

68. Want some Cosmo-Pita ???

Good eats!

[DinahMoeHum]

22. I really can't take them seriously after seeing a button that I felt

should be their slogan: (WARNING - HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!!)

"Eat Pussy, Not Meat"

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm sorry, but every time I see their name in the news, I keep thinking back to that button, and I no longer have a straight face.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Link:
www.brainbuttons.com then click on "Newest" buttons.

[terrya]

23. No

I'm answering in monosyllables, STM. Sorry.

[blondeatlast]

34. Excellent tactic, I'll have to remember that!

:rofl:

[seemunkee]

26. anti-pet

“Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation.”
“In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.”
"I am not only uninterested in having children. I am opposed to having children. Having a purebred human baby is like having a purebred dog; it is nothing but vanity, human vanity."
Ingrid Newkirk

[StopTheMorans]

29. more PETA brilliance

:thumbsdown:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

38. This is not the first thread on Peta you've started, nor will it be your

last. Why do you insist on attacking a group of people that you have no desire to know anything about? You post links and clips from anti-peta websites to fit your views and you support when other people do likewise. Yet when people come and post the whole story, you don't want to hear it. You post these posts only wanting to hear people echo your views, not discuss them.

We get it. You hate Peta. Fine. Move on.

[StopTheMorans]

39. this started as a copycat thread, now it's just fun

i know the whole story, and PETA still strikes me as a group of extremists. your post contains many half-truths and suppositions that are false, thanks for being deliberately misleading though :thumbsup:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

44. Ok, what "half truths"?

Have your or have you not been involved in many "anti peta" posts?
Is this your first anti peta post?
Will it be your last? (this, I guess, is a supposition)

You use the same arguments over and over, even after they have been provided in full context for you. And to prove it, all anyone has to do is go to the archives.

[StopTheMorans]

57. everything that you are writing could be applied to yourself

which saves me the time of not having to respond to you, when all you have to do is look in the mirror (i.e. you type the same tired replies to all of my posts).

[smbolisnch]

45. What was misleading about it?

:shrug:

[livinginphotographs]

47. "I know the whole story"

That's funny, since I seem to remember my trying to discuss the holocaust comparisons with you, and you ran away with your tail between your legs.

Or were you just too busy to educate me back then?

[StopTheMorans]

58. i didn't run away. after a series of posts that ran over the course of

3 hours, i stopped posting because i had to leave work. sorry, my life isn't arguing with PETA extremists on DU, i actually do other things and have other interests too. my apologies. besides, my point had already been made, and you and others kept saying the same tired bullshit ("tactics like this ARE useful", "the comparison may be extreme, but it's effective"), and those are differences of opinion that are so core as to not even be worth discussing further once it has been established that they exist, yet you and others insisted on beating a dead piece of tofu.

[livinginphotographs]

59. Actually, you said, "Then this conversation is over"

When I tried to discuss the holocaust comparison.

I'll find the quote if you'd like, Scotty.

[StopTheMorans]

62. it's not scotty, smarmy

the conversation would be over, then, obviously, as I stated in my last post, but i'll type again as i'm sure it's much too much work for you to actually read what i type rather than to just type things out of context for sheer amusement. if it is established that our beliefs on something such as using the holocaust as a comparison to animal rights are on opposite ends of the spectrum, then there can be no real discussion of the issue, and we are both wasting our time. i'm no artist, but perhaps one of DU's resident artists can draw you a picture :shrug:

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StopTheMorans]

72. never called you a fundie, but, we're never going to come to agreement

or even have common ground, on issues like using photographs of the holocaust. i think it's fucking subhuman to even consider the comparison, and you don't. that's not something nebulous like "can animals feel pain" or something even open to debate like "are ALL veal calves treated the same"; it's something so core that there can be no common ground. nice name-calling though; sticks and stones can break my bones...

[livinginphotographs]

75. Riiiiight....

Because the Nazis justified their actions during the holocaust by calling the Jews "animals" and because we justify our actions towards animals by calling them "animals."

People use a word to justify acting cruelly whenever it's convenient for them, whether it's a nazi or factory-farm owner.

If you disagree, explain why, because "that's just the way it is" is fundie-like behavior.

[Shell Beau]

77. But the Jews were people not animals that is the difference.

Comparing people and animals. You just can't go there. I am a huge animal lover, but I think that is what his problem is with your comparison.

[StopTheMorans]

80. you just stepped in it

:D now they're all going to come after you and claim that you're evil. a mouse's life is just as valuable as yours, and don't you forget it.

[Shell Beau]

81. So are you being nice now? Now that yours turned into flames

and mine did not!! :P No, I am with you on the comparing the holocaust to animals. There is no comparison. Period.

[StopTheMorans]

79. because people aren't animals, and they're not equal

my view won't change, nor will yours, andn there's no use continuing this (insert broken record sound here) and wasting both of our time. you have very valid personal reasons for believing in your core belief, as do i, and those reasons will not change. this isn't an ancilliary belief, this is a core belief (like "does life begin at conception").

[ronnykmarshall]

70. You left because YOU HATE ANIMALS!!!!

ADMIT IT!!!

Ooooo you ........ burger EATER!!!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

35. No, anti-"pet exploitation"

Pet OWNERSHIP is wrong. As a living breathing feeling sentient being, a pet should not be treated like an object, as it often is. You cropped your dogs ears? Oh well it's your property. You docked his tail? Well, that's incredibly painful for him, but he's your property. You declawed your cat? Well, that has mutilated him for life, but I guess she's your property.


As for not living with companion animals, that is not true. Per Peta's website:

Does PETA believe that people shouldn’t have pets?”

The earliest fossils that resemble the bones of modern dogs are about 12,000 years old, so we know that humans’ fascination with domesticated wolves began at least that long ago. About 5,000 years ago, Egyptians became the first to tame cats, whom they used to control the rodent population. Since then, the breeding and care of cats and dogs has exploded into a love affair, a sport, and a booming business. This international pastime has created an overpopulation crisis, and as a result, every year, millions of unwanted animals suffer at the hands of abusers, languish in shelters, and are euthanized. Adopting a cat or dog from a shelter and providing a loving home is a small but powerful way to prevent some of this suffering. The most important thing that animal guardians can do is to spay or neuter their animals and avoid buying animals from breeders or pet stores, which contribute to the overpopulation crisis.


http://www.peta.org/about/faq-comp.asp


And purebred animals are a problem because of unethical breeders and the lack of regulations.

[seemunkee]

54. No, ANTI-PET

“In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.”

"For one thing, we would no longer allow breeding. People could not create different breeds. There would be no pet shops. If people had companion animals in their homes, those animals would have to be refugees from the animal shelters and the streets. You would have a protective relationship with them just as you would with an orphaned child. But as the surplus of cats and dogs (artificially engineered by centuries of forced breeding) declined, eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship – enjoyment at a distance.”

“The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats...If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind.”

“There is no hidden agenda. If anybody wonders about -- what’s this with all these reforms -- you can hear us clearly. Our goal is total animal liberation.”

"One day we would like an end to pet shops and breeding animals would pursue their natural lives in the wild."

[LisaL]

78. I would love to see cats and dogs pursuing

their natural lives in the wild.
:eyes:
How long do they think these animals are going to last, without food, shelter, clean water, vaccinations, heart worm medications, etc?
And where does Peta think cats and dog are going to find the "wild"?

[blondeatlast]

36. I shall employ Terrya's tactic.

Damn.

[Squatch]

67. Yeah...they're *really* anti-pet

This is a picture inside PeTA HQ.

[Swede]

27. On the contrary,they make me happy.

[kick-ass-bob]

31. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:spray:

[blondeatlast]

32. Pool here: I say 39.

The prize is my admiration from afar.

[blondeatlast]

37. Damn, we're up to 33. I need more pollers, it's clear that I'm going

to lose this one--and no, I won't alert, since I have a stake!

[jonnyblitz]

33. no. they piss off all the stuffed shirts out there AND.

they can make even (cough) "progressives" sound like rush limbaugh dittoheads. :thumbsup:

[Dutch]

43. No.

[flvegan]

48. No, not in the least.

I love what PETA does most of the time. I love what they stand for all of the time. They DO make lots of folks uncomfortable, though. The question is, "why do they make (one) uncomfortable?"

[Dave Reynolds]

50. No, fundies are amusing,

and amusement is not uncomfortable.

:evilgrin:

[Vuem]

61. No. It clearly defines where the morons are.

Ands let's me avoid them and the headaches that so often accompany them.

[I Have A Dream]

65. No. n/t

[woo me with science]

69. What ever happened with that case about the dogs in dumpsters?

Did PETA respond? What did they say?

[ronnykmarshall]

71. What was that about?

[woo me with science]

73. PETA members were caught putting dead dogs in dumpsters.

They allegedly got them from shelters after promising to find good homes for them, but apparently had killed (euthanized?) and dumped them instead. From what I remember, they were caught because they were repeatedly using that dumpster and people started to notice all the dogs.

[LisaL]

76. That they shouldn't have put the dogs in dumpsters.

But it was fine that they had killed them.

[Moderator]

82. Locking.

This thread has lost any level of civility and degraded to personal attacks.