Heard about the creepy "weddings" some Baptist dads & daughters have?

[greekspeak]

They call them "promise ceremonies." The daughter promises herself to her father until she gets married, so that she will not have sex. They are apparently like a wedding. I do not know much more than this about these ceremonies, but I heard about them from a pretty reliable source: a Baptist preacher who is a colleague of mine. These disgust him, and clearly make his blood run cold. He just had a daughter, and I think the idea of such a ceremony disgusts him all the more because of it.

[kenny blankenship]

1. This isn't like the right of the 1st night I hope!

but given who you're talking about it would figure...

[Mari333]

2. Disgusting,Patriarchal Ownership of daughters...

borderline incest. Freud would have a field day with that scenario.

[libnnc]

3. Didn't Jessica Simpson do this with her dad?

I thought she mentioned this on her show. Her dad completely creeps me out. Waaay to attached to her IMHO.

[undeterred]

5. Yes I remember that

it creeps me out too

[philosophie_en_rose]

6. I think so.

It was very weird. He even said something like he "owned" her or she belonged to him, until he "gave" her to Nick Lachey. :puke:

[LynneSin]

7. Yeah, the same dad that pretty much pimps her out like a ho

Did you see her new video for the "Dukes of Hazard"? She's humping the General Lee car. Raised yourself a real 'lady' there dad.

[MercutioATC]

9. ...and that's a bad thing, why??

Oops...sorry. Was that out loud?

[blondeatlast]

34. Yes, and even after her marriage, she's such a fine, upstanding

vision of American womanhood at it's finest. :puke:

[Wapsie B]

4. Never heard of them.

Sounds a little incestuous to me. :puke:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

8. The father owns her until his brother's son takes possession

[Orsino]

41. Can't have wimmen runnin' 'round 'thout a leash.

I knew the daughter-as-property meme was still alive, but I didn't know it was openly expressed in this manner. In this country.

[Heidi]

10. Parents don't own their kids' sexuality.

Are there any Baptist boys "promising" themselves to their mothers?

What a very strange concept this whole thing is.

(Edit for clarity)

[greekspeak]

17. This I asked of my colleague. Got a flat out NO.

I asked this very question, and there is no parallel for sons and mothers. Who knows what these kids are doing behind parents' backs? Does dad go in and examine the hymen to make sure it is intact? This is the only way I can see how they would know, and I doubt that they do it. They may though.

[Heidi]

20. Good for you

greekspeak, for asking. I always try to ask rational, well-framed questions in a respectful way of folks who espouse this sort of thing. I've found that this approach is more likely to get people to think through irrational behaviors and perhaps come to more rational conclusions.

:hi:

[enigmatic]

11. That's creepy beyond belief

in so many ways, I can't begin to explain...

[NMMNG]

12. And they call gays depraved

[Heidi]

13. It's called "True Love Waits."

http://www.lifeway.com/tlw/

http://www.bpnews.net/bpfeature.asp?ID=1722

[greekspeak]

18. I love how they have commercialized this on the site

Has the rings, inscribed with LOVE (ha ha) on them. Like these sick twisted people would know love if it bit them on the butt.

[Heidi]

21. Well . . .

organized religion _is_ a commercial endeavor to a certain extent, these days.

Ya know, my dad's a Baptist, but he'd never have tried anything like this with my sister and me. Heck, he could barely buy tampons at the grocery store without breaking a sweat that he was somehow invading our "girl space" by having knowledge of such things. Instead, he was rational and taught us self-respect and respect for other people, and never threatened us with hellfire and brimstone.

Programs like True Love Waits and The Silver Ring Thing strike me as incredibly sad, intrusive and unrealistic.

[greekspeak]

25. Your dad was "...rational and taught us self-respect and respect ..."

for other people." And he is a Baptist. Sounds like your Dad knows what being a Baptist is all about. But when are people like your dad going to take their church back from these bigotted self righteous hypocritical control freaks?

[Heidi]

27. I don't have the answer to that.

I haven't set foot in a Baptist church since I was 17. I do know that my dad's pretty vocal about matters of human rights and individual liberty. This sexist thing wouldn't set well with him with him at all.

[Heidi]

23. Way cool!

I just read in your profile that you collect and repair fountain pens. Woot! Nice fountain pens are among my few obsessions, and one my husband also shares. Very cool, greekspeak!

[greekspeak]

26. What kinds do you have Heidi?

Clintmax and I both collect them. We like old Esterbrooks, Parkers, and Sheaffers. We have a number of others. They all come from antique malls and other places where we can get good buys. We fix them as we can, and some day when we are more well off, we will send the more delicate and complicated ones in to get professionally fixed.

[Heidi]

28. We have mostly

Mont Blancs and Pellikans, along with some old Parkers and Scheaffers. My husband is quite adept at cleaning and repairing, because I have the bad habit of letting my fountain pens dry up. :hi: Fountain pens are an addiction, aren't they?

[greekspeak]

29. They are unfortunately very addictive

Some of those Sheaffers are really hard to fix too. The "snorkel" pen is probably the most complicated pen ever made, and the piston fillers they replaced are almost impossible to fix.


And I love the Pelikans, but I have not acquired one yet. They are pricier than I go for. But I do from time to time pull out the "centerfold" in one of my pen guides and drool over the two page full color spread of those beautiful Pelikans!

[Heidi]

31. Ooooooooooooooo . . .

I also have a couple of Rotring Rapidograph technical pens that I use sometimes for my work. They're not fountain pens, of course, but they make a permanent mark that is exquisite.



(Nice to meet you!)

[Clintmax]

32. Hi, Heidi!

Greekspeaks partner here! I heard you two were talking about fountain pens and had to come in to visit with ya.

I love repairing old Sheaffer and Esterbrook pens! Once you get 'em fixed and cleaned they are so beautiful!

Side note: I also collect the old 60's and 70's rotary phones. End goal is to have one of each color and style. Wall phone and desk phone.

We only use rotary phones here in the house!

[Heidi]

35. Welcome to DU!

Do ya'll have a princess phone? When I was a youngster, I was dying for one!

[Clintmax]

38. Yes...

We have a brite white one (rotary dial of course) in our bedroom. There's nothing like the sound of a REAL bell ringer!

[Heidi]

39. I'm jealous!

I begged for a princess phone from ages 11 to 15, but noooooooooooooo. I'll bet my 2-year-old nephew has a cell phone before he's five, though. :eyes:

[Clintmax]

40. Yeah, I'm sure...

People are into the cell phone thing now. We have one too for long distance (who'd want to pay Sprint when you can get it for free). But I love my phones and my pens!

[iconoclastic cat]

36. That's also a great Radiohead tune!

[leftofthedial]

14. do the sons marry the fathers?

nothing about the suicide-cannibal cult that is organized christianity surprises me.

[greekspeak]

22. I have not heard if that is what happens. But the two faced mofos would

if they thought it would "fix" things.

[leftofthedial]

45. I guess Baptist sons would have to marry their mothers

then they could all commit ritual cannibalism together and pray for the Rapture.

[no_hypocrisy]

15. Isn't this part of the project called "The Silver Ring Thing"?

I heard the "virginal" daughters "marry" their fathers in a ceremony whereby the father puts a silver ring on his daughter's left hand to symbolize the union. It stays on there and the daughter remains "pure" until her wedding at which time the silver ring is removed and replaced with a golden wedding band offered by her husband.

Think of it this situation metaphorically in legal terms: Women as viewed as chattel, objects to be owned and possessed and transferred to another owner. They are never autonomous and independent people.

And hey, I don't believe I've heard of guys marrying their mothers and getting silver rings until they get married. We wouldn't want them to be unjustifiably called "homos", would we?

Friggin' double standard alive and well . . .

[greekspeak]

16. This sounds like what was described to me, without so many details

Like I said, this ceremony clearly sickens my colleague. He is a fundimentalist for certain, but he has a pretty open mind and does not blindly follow the Southern Baptist Convention. He is the type who will criticise them openly when he sees something wrong. And on this, he is staunch.

That said, will these freaks ever stop trying to micromanage society? Women are not chattel. Even the NT says so much.

[In_The_Wind]

19. ewww

[gollygee]

24. Oh ugh icky icky icky

I would not marry a man who would think to do that or ever even consider it.

[LaurenG]

30. Control Control Control

I guess these people don't know about talking to their kids. Just put them through a ceremony and make them vow to do what the parents want.

It makes me angry. Why aren't they having their boys do one too? Another step in the direction of total dictatorship from the church.

[Obamarama]

33. Ugh.....are these Baptists, or are they Southern Baptists??

This concept is bizarre to say the least.

I'm Jewish, so I don't know a lot about various protestent sects of Christianity. I do know there is a difference between run-of-the mill Baptists and Southern Baptists.

I have known people who have been "generic" Baptists who have been very strong in their faith but not whacked out wing-nuts about it.

I have also known a few acquaintances who have been Southern Baptists as well. I have found these people are quite a bit more zealous and wing-nuttish than their "generic" counterparts.

This type of thing would not surprise me in the least if it were coming from the Southern Baptists.

[Bill McBlueState]

42. southern baptists

Southern Baptists broke off from the rest of the Baptists in the 1840's. Naturally, the schism came about because the southern Baptists liked slavery, while the northern ones had this whacked-out idea that slavery was a bad thing.

As a result, the non-southern Baptists are like other moderate Protestants, while the Southern Baptist Convention is ridiculously right wing. I believe they were the only major religious organization on the planet to support the Iraq invasion.

[iconoclastic cat]

37. That is SFU.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

43. I'm kinda glad we're seeing more of this type of thing.

It scares a lot of people away and gives them a bad name. Hurray for us! :woohoo:
The weirder they are, the more people will realize you don't have to be a fucking Bible thumper to lead a fulfilling life. It's like that post from a few days ago where the church group went to slaughter some chickens. It just screams weirderness and sullies their name and image. Keep it up, you conservative whack jobs!!!

Edit: I thought "cheer" was a smiley. It's actually "woohoo." How silly of me.

[barb162]

44. Where are the ceremonies for mom's' wedding to sonnyboys

so that sonnyboys don't have sex before marriage. Or is it people still only care about FEmales having sex before marriage.