Tell me about alcoholism

[Deja Q]

Why is it a bad thing?

[RPM]

1. i dont understand why everyone stigmatizes it...

lame poops

on edit: :sarcasm:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Because Alcohol...

is a very toxic central nervous system poison. When used in large amounts and habitually, it can cause all kinds of permanent damage.

[RPM]

3. so can eating large fish

and that isnt as much fun as drinking beer!

[Deja Q]

4. Or using a cell phone for 30 minutes straight!

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

15. OK, well... do you beat your wife with that fish, or drive like a maniac

after you've consumed it? Do you physically and verbally abuse everyone in sight after you've thrown back a few Orange Roughy? Do you use weapons on a police officer and defecate all over yourself when you've had too much walleye?

Jus' wonderin'...

[RPM]

43. yes - but it is consensual

and what i do with my poo after i eat walleye is none of your goddamn business.
:bounce:
The best part about DU is that someone will always crawl up your ass no matter what you say - joking or not.
:hi:

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

46. Ah jeesh...

no crawling up any asses... eww.

Like all the stuff I said downthread, I am hyper-sensitive having been a victim to the horrors that are alcoholism.

:hi:

[RPM]

56. its cool...

my dad was pretty bad into the beer, luckily he never was physically abusive - a bit of an asshole ingeneral, but it seems that wasn't even the booze - just his general demeanor.

I am congnizant of the troubles that often go along with people who are having issues with alcohol, but as someone who controls my use (i do a fair amount of drinking, but it never interferes with work or school and it doesnt impact my relationships and i stay out from behind the wheel) i get a bit annoyed at the constant insinuations from many that any use at all cannot be controlled.

Then again, i am solid on the dicipline/self control thing - having quit smoking cold turkey just to prove to myself and others that i can...

Sorry to hear that things had been tough for you - hope all has improved.

:hi:

[Ariana Celeste]

108. Not all alcoholics are like that.

There are a lot of alcoholics in my family. The only two who were violent eventually quit drinking. There rest are happy/giddy drunks.

[ailsagirl]

75. It destroys your liver if done long enough.

[Parche]

105. liver

SAVE THE LIVER!!!

[ReadTomPaine]

5. This is why...

Any questions? ;)

[RPM]

6. strongest case ever

my pops health would be second...

[CBHagman]

92. Google the phrase "dry drunk" and see what comes up.

Seriously, many people believe that Bush is an alcoholic who quit drinking but -- and this is the important part -- never went through the steps required for getting into recovery. In other words, his thinking and behavior are still very dysfunctional. We've all noticed the rigidity, the refusal to admit mistakes, the careful insulation from anyone who might question him. He keeps a distance from reality.

Recovery is a life-long procedure, too. You're not cured the second you take your last drink. If you substitute other rigid and/or dysfunctional behaviors for the drinking, you're just as addicted as ever you were.

Some variation of the 12 steps is required to address an addictive behavior. The 12 steps can be adapted to your belief system, whatever that may be.

[XemaSab]

107. Only in America...

n/t

[Kathleen04]

7. Well

Health wise it can primarily be abusive to your liver.

And if you let alcohol get in between you and your responsibilties or your family/friends. Then it's a problem.

[Dr.Phool]

8. The worst thing about alcoholism is

Attending those meetings! Guys I used to work with, who had to attend court mandated AA meetings said, they never wanted a drink more, than when they left them.

Good thing us drunks don't have to attend.

[koopie57]

28. I went with a friend to an AA meeting

and people were walking into the room, findings seats, visiting about -- except for a group of the AA people who were running the meeting. They were sweating profusely, aggitated and kept complaining that everyone who was coming in was upset, confused, and they wished they would just settle down. They could not understand why everyone was so nervous.

[WCGreen]

60. It's like every meeting.... The people who run the show

are usually strict anal and have control issues...

Nopw could you imagine all that and alcohol too.....

[A-Schwarzenegger]

67. Where do you go to meetings?

[WCGreen]

68. I haven't been for a while.....

BNut I did go to ones in the Western Suburbs of Cleveland

[realms]

106. Double trouble

That's the idea
AA wants you to drink like you breathe. If you don't get it your gone.
This is what it came down to...
It's really about a better day, confusion aside, sober in the way you look at the world, and the way the world looks at you!

[tjdee]

9. Aside from the physical implications, it also sucks for those around you.

I've known a few people who were/are alcoholics, and they are not fun people to be around.

[no name no slogan]

10. Why is cancer a bad thing, for that matter?

Well, for starters, alcoholism is a bad thing because
* It can kill you at a young age
* It destroys your creativity-- and anything of any importance you may potentially produce
* It tears families apart, and causes untold grief and hardship to the loved ones of alcoholics, too.

I'm fairly certain my ex-wife is an active alcoholic, and I hold her alcoholism partially responsible for our relationship ending. Alcoholism not only affects the alcoholic, but the people who love the alcoholic, too.

I've seen too many friends and relatives destroyed by alcoholism to think of it as a joke. IMHO alcoholism is a serious illness and should be treated like one.

It's about as funny as a heart attack.

[hyphenate]

17. I'm with you on that one!

And as someone who has had at least two heart attacks, I can tell you they're not a lot of laughs for sure.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

11. No offense... but this is the stupidest question ever.

And quite insensitive. There are women here who was abused by alcoholics. Men, too...

On edit...or ask the child of an alcoholic 'why it's so bad'... :wtf:

[hyphenate]

22. My biological mother was an alcoholic as well

It runs in the family. Over the course of 15 or so years, she ended up having at least 8 kids that were either sold or put up for adoption (in an era when abortion was not an option). That lack of discrimination for who she slept with was almost surely caused by what alcohol could do to a person. I went completely in the opposite direction, and never really drank much. I did right after high school for about two years, but then stopped once I realized I hated the taste of it. Now, if I have any liquor at all, it's like one drink a year, and then it's something sweet like a daiquiri or pina colada.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

23. I was married to an alcoholic for 10 long years. My son and I are both

victims of his disease. Arrests for assault on me and others and a decade of abuse due to his self-loathing. I finally got out knowing that it would either kill him or he'd kill someone. I could not let my son or myself stand by and be victim or witness to it another day. Almost 5 years later, he's on the same path... it won't be much longer. It CAN'T be much longer. A body can only take that for so many years.

Good for you on taking your situation and a determination NOT to be that way. My father did that, too... and he has been the best father a person could dream of as a result. I hope and pray that my son has the same determination. :hug:

[hyphenate]

33. I can understand

what that kind of atmosphere is like. I congratulate you for being able to get out. There are too many who can't or don't want to, thinking of the alternatives.

[Deja Q]

27. So ignorance IS a crime! And trying to ask questions is a crime too!

I've nothing more to say. :hi:

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

32. Oh no no no... no, dear. No crime.

Just be sensitive. There are alcoholics here who are in recovery. There are husbands, wives, children, sisters, brothers and friends of alcoholics here on DU.

I *KNOW* you know the true damage it can do... that's why I was a bit hurt that you took a bit of a flippant attitude with it. I like to get silly drunk, and I like silly drunks. I am VERY sensitive about alcoholics and mean drunks. Have fun, catch a buz... flirt like you're Zsa Zsa Gabor, but please don't become an alcoholic or let your guard down about the dangers.

:hi:

[Deja Q]

40. You do? Why do you say that? Read this and my blog before replying.

I've been a lonely little, let's face it, toad, for my entire life. Shunned, taunted, maimed... I was different and therefore unliked. I never felt even remotely alive UNTIL I started drinking. I know I was still getting the "what is wrong with that loser?" looks from people at the bars, but that didn't stop me and for once I didn't care. The alcohol made me feel happy and I could escape the hurt. And believe me on that, AT face value.

I've been going for far longer than you'd think. Spent more than you think. Just for temporary relief from an even sicker society.

Also, if you want flippant or hurtful talk, in my pathetic excuse of a life I learned how to be flippant from those who did it unto me. I can say very hurtful things if I chose to. And I'm generally too much a coward to even do that.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

42. Perhaps...

it was a hope at smacking you into reality a bit?

Darling, alcohol is not the answer and I know you're a smart enough person to know that, without the consensus of the DU Lounge. And, I sure hope to JEEBUS that you weren't expecting folks to condone alcoholism as a mechanism to deal with social issues.

Seriously... it's bad. Don't turn to it to make you feel whole. It destroys and hurts and even kills. The horror stories in this thread are meant to illustrate all of that. Not to anger or hurt you, OK?

:hug:

[Kathleen04]

55. I agree

Hypnotoad, I've read alot of your posts. And I can tell by your posts that you're a quality person. You don't give yourself credit. I know you've had problems connecting with people in the past. IMO, you need to talk to a professional about your social issues and come up with positive solutions. To continue to be isolated and take up drinking will not take you where you want to go.

You're just numbing the pain and the pain will come back. As cliche as it sounds, you have to get rid of the cause, not just mask the symptoms, because in the long run the alcohol will be destructive to you.

Take care of yourself. :hug:

[hyphenate]

38. Nah

I think some of us know where you're coming from, and jokes about drinking are okay. But approaching the actual topic of alcoholism without at least a preface that you are really interested in the topic is not exactly a good thing to do. Making it "seem" like a joke only sets those of us with bad experiences off with our close-up and in-your-face stories. I think, for me, it's a chance to give some a benefit of my trials and errors in my own life so that I (hopefully) can make someone realize that it's really a serious topic with serious consequences.

Drinking and alcoholism are not the same thing. Someone can go and have a few drinks and wake up the next morning with little to no side effects. But an alcoholic will have a compulsion to keep drinking until they are either dead from the physical effects of their habit, or get killed in the pursuit of drinking in some other way.

My dad used to be a "functioning drunk" where he worked every day of his life and drank for several hours every single evening. He was an alcoholic, but he never drank so much that he allowed it to rule his life completely. He just abdicated responsibility when my mom needed him to be responsible, and as a result, conflict flourished. My mom could never count on him when she needed him most.

I remember one night he took me and a few other kids to a drive in movie, and he was drunk on the way home. If it had been up to him, we would have had an accident. I was underaged at the time, but I managed to keep the car on the road that night and get us home. It's not something a 15 year old wants to do, but I did it anyhow.

[mcscajun]

12. It's not only bad for the person afflicted...it's doubly bad for those

around the afflicted, especially their children.

You want horror stories, talk to some of them. Like me.

All addictions, not just alcoholism, are horrendous.

Being drunk is one thing; being alcoholic is quite a different kettle of fish.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. Hehe, come meet my family...you'll see

Seriously, if you could spend a few weeks with one side of my family, you would never need to ask this question. And I don't mean just one or two people...many.

[leftofthedial]

14. alcohol abuse is when drinking is a problem

alcoholism is when NOT drinking is a problem

[Tallison]

61. Well said.

The recovery industry's full of pithy sayings and slogans, but I've never heard that one. Like it.

[leftofthedial]

66. Thanks

I just made it up

[hyphenate]

16. See "The Days of Wine and Roses"

and you will understand. Or "Lost Weekend" for another. Lots of movies with alcoholism as a theme. Plus, from having a sister with alcoholism, I can tell you that you lose all sense of responsibility, and propriety. You lose control, too, of everything you do.

My sister hasn't done anything productive in her 44 years of life. She's addicted to alcohol and drugs, and puts her own life and everyone else's life in danger every time she gets into a car and drinks a few nips. She has had three kids by three different guys over the past 27 years, and each and every one of those kids ended up being raised by someone else. She doesn't care. She's oblivious to everyone else's needs and wants. She's egocentric and unable to understand anything and everything. Her best friend, also a heavy drinker, has cirrhosis of the liver. And Hep C (I believe) as well. She drinks from daylight to dark and all the rest of the time, without ever facing up to her problems and her responsibilities in life. If she's not on welfare at a given moment, she's sponging off my mom. She's got two guys in her life, one is also as big a drunk and addict that she is, and the other is a controlling older guy who just uses her for whatever she can put out.

She's had some nice guys offer to take her out, but she pretty much doesn't care. She seems to want to punish herself by sticking with the assholes she does have around her. She even lies to both of them, and has on occasion gone to a bar and picked up a guy for a quickie without any emotional attachment at all. As far as anyone else is concerned, she really doesn't give a shit. If you asked her to do something, she will say she will do it, but ends up not fulfilling her obligations.

She can be loving, almost childlike sometimes, but I learned a very long time ago that she would never be emotionally mature enough to function properly. I found I could not count on her when it really mattered.

When my mom was in the hospital two months ago, my sister never even went to visit her at the hospital, nor did she call her and let her know she was even alive. She's been an alcoholic since she was about 17. At a time when she was arrested for underaged drinking, and resisting arrest. She's lived hard during her years, and looks it. She also smokes heavily, despite the cost of cigarettes. I'm 5 years older chronologically, but she is the one who looks a helluva lot older than me.

Drinking is okay in moderation. Having a drink after work, at a cocktail party, beers during a sports game--these are all acceptable forms of drinking. But drinking alone, drinking to take away the world, drinking when you know you're going to be driving--these are NOT acceptable forms and can indicate that someone is headed toward a life of alcoholism and loss of control of their lives.

If I sound like a public service announcement, I apologize. But I've seen first hand how drinking can ruin lives. My brother was 17 when he was in a car crash with 4 others when the driver, underaged, drank a bottle of vodka and then crashed. The driver was decapitated, and my brother suffered extremely serious head trauma, with brain damage and multiple other injuries. He is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life, with the emotional and mental capacity of a 10 year old--if that.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

20. Alcoholism is evil and I am sorry for all of the pain that it has caused.

Thank you for sharing your story. I think that the OP was half-joking. I, like you, am one that cannot see humor in 'alcoholim'. Drunks, yes... alcoholism, no.

[hyphenate]

24. Thanks

I think that for some of us, joking about it is impossible, because we've had bad experiences with it, and we can't understand how anyone can joke about it. I've seen it ruin lives and do some pretty horrible things to people, and know deep inside that I live on the edge of that abyss myself simply because of heredity. I don't think I had to fight it really hard to stay away, but I can definitely understand where they're going when they can't stay away from it. My sister has spent REAL time in jail because of her substance abuse problems, but she keeps lapsing and getting into the same scrapes over and over because her brain is no longer fully functional in that regard. I wish sometimes I could talk with her about straightening out her life, and I know it will never sink in because she's destroyed too much of her brain's capacity to understand and deal with real life.

[Zhade]

72. Alcoholism is a disease. How is it "evil"?

Its effects, yes. But is cancer evil?

Calling it evil doesn't help those afflicted by it, IMHO.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

78. I'm sorry if that was misunderstood/pooly worded.

I meant the evil that is a by-product of it. Certainly not meant as a statement of the people it affects.

[Zhade]

79. No worries.

NT!

[Deja Q]

34. I shall. Thank you for taking me seriously...

Not that it matters either way; this thread (though not your response) is proof some would take hurtful potshots either way...

[hyphenate]

44. I'm sorry some people either didn't take you seriously

or were a little too flippant to respond.

It's the nature of the beast, I think. For those of us who have dealt with some aspect of alcoholism in their lives, we can only hope that sometimes we might influence someone early enough to have them pay attention to our advice.

Alcoholism is like smoking in a lot of ways. Once upon a time, a little drinking and a little smoking was quite acceptable, together in tandem. As we all know, smoking is no longer acceptable for many reasons, and at the same time, drinking is one of the few vices we can still do with some immunity. The world is filled with drinkers, many of them social drinkers who are not in danger of becoming alcoholics. It's mainly in people who have a heritage of alcoholism or addictive personalities. Distinguishing between the two of them can be difficult at best so it often comes down to trying to curtail drinking habits in ALL people. This is what prohibition was in part about--the desire to control ALL drinking, in the entire population. Of course, we know what happened with that issue!

There will always be people who will overdo something to the point where they are in trouble. But if people are truly interested in knowing the problems with something, and are willing to accept that advice from more seasoned folks, many of us will be happy to oblige. :)

[Tallison]

39. There's hope for your sister

as long as she's still alive. But even where there's recovery, it can be years before trust reestablishes itself. So sorry.

:pals:

[Darth_Kitten]

18. because it can kill you.....

destroy and mess up your life...

affect your family for years to come....

been there. :(

[AuntieM1957]

19. HypnoToad

Well, I'm here on this board tonight rather than at my usual Al-Anon Sunday night meeting. Chance of thunderstorms tonight and I didn't feel like driving in the rain.

So, you asked - here's my answer.

Alcoholism and addiction are diseases.
They destroy lives.
The disease and the it's attendant behaviors become family legacies.

Your question made me cry - and hope that you're not dealing with it.
Wish I wasn't.

[bicentennial_baby]

21. ...

:hug:

[hyphenate]

25. My congratulations to you, however

for facing up to it, and trying to fight it. I know it's a lifelong fight just to keep from letting it sink you in again, and I hope that it helps and works out for you in the end. :hug:

[AuntieM1957]

31. Just to clarify

I'm not an alcoholic or an addict.

I'm in relationship with one - that's what Al-Anon is for.

Similar program - different problems.

[hyphenate]

41. Ah! I apologize

And understand. I tried to get my mom and myself to stick to an Al-Anon group, but it never worked out. She's been co-dependent too long to ever understand the need NOT to be co-dependent. I think in some ways she's alive only because she feels needed in that respect. She's been having a lot of physical troubles in the past 7 months (and actually longer) and I'm afraid she's not going to be around a whole lot longer (she's 77, going on 78 in November), but I know without her, the little troop of addicts and others around her are going to have a helluva lot of trouble coping with her loss. And my sister had the audacity to tell me once that I would be the one who would miss her most!!

[AuntieM1957]

58. For me, it's all about me

Once in a group, I realized that like you say - I'd been in a little group of addicts and coies for a long, long time.

And whether they get better or not - I WANT TO!

I tried to get other family members to go (can't reveal too much without violating their privacy). Finally, I gave up. And shifted to me - and that's really all anyone can control.

I've had family throw nasty comments my way too. They're not ready to stop "helping" our addict/alcoholic out. Still thinking they can fix it.

For me, the Al-Anon program has been a life-raft in the storm.

[Deja Q]

29. Hope and reality are two separate entities...

But by the reactions from a few others on this board, it doesn't matter because they'll piss on ya regardless.

[AuntieM1957]

35. There will always be pissers

but it doesn't make them right. I'm learning to let them think whatever they want. Take the good and leave the rest.

Whatever your problem, I really wish you well.

[KG]

26. if this is a serious question - then you have a serious problem.

[Deja Q]

30. Well, some 'people' here think I wasn't serious...

And if I think them worthy of a response, I will send it via PM. I'm a little too livid right now.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

36. Just so you know... the comment upthread regarding cell phone usage....

and comparing it to the dangers of alcoholism... in conjunction with your earlier thread "woot, woot"ing booze is what caused the appearance of flippancy.

My apologies if the OP was in all seriousness and my words were some that hurt you.

And, please know that it IS bad and those of us who've dealt with it have suffered greatly. This may cause knee-jerk reactions of hyper-sensitivity.

[no name no slogan]

37. Believe me, nobody means to piss on you

It's just that a lot of us are dealing with the effects of alcoholism first-hand: the pain, the stress, the consequences of loving an alcoholic-- or being an alcoholic.

Your question, on the surface, did seem kind of flippant-- of course, that's probably due to the fact that this is a web chat board, and we can't see the earnestness in your facial expression, body language, etc.

For many many people, alchohol isn't a laughing matter-- we deal with it daily, like any other disease. Most people don't find cancer or heart disease humourous-- hence the nature of many of these posts.

Nobody means any harm to you, or to dismiss your question. It's just one of those things where, if you're dealing with it here and now, you don't find it a laughing matter.

Alcoholism kills. I've had at least two close relatives die of it. It runs in my family. My ex-wife is probably an undiagnosed alcoholic, and it runs in her family too.

Sorry if this seams a little pissy, but dammit I don't want to see anyone else hurt by this horrible disease-- nor do I want to see its survivors trivialized as "just drunks".

/rant

[bettyellen]

47. don't ask if you don't feel like hearing the answers.

don't blame us if the answers bother you, either.
people here answered honestly and in a caring way.
and those of us who've dealt with this know that sugar coating it is extremely fucked.

[DemoTex]

45. My father-in-law, a surgeon, to an O/R nurse (he was very hungover):

Doc T: You drop another instrument and I'll subject you to hell-on-earth!

Nurse: yes-sir..

Doc T: Woman, do you have any idea what hell-on-earth is?

Nurse: no-sir..

Doc T: Hell-on-earth is a week at the beach with me!

Very true story from another O/R nurse who witnessed it. She said that it was almost at his retirement that she realized that he was often operating drunk and under the influence of meprobamate (Miltown,Equanil). My F-I-L's office manager extorted tens of thousand of dollars a year to cover for his alcoholism and to conduit meprobamate to him (and she covered very well .. she was an early-day Karla Rove).

My F-I-L chased my M-I-L around the neighborhood with a shotgun. My wife, oldest of five and the only girl, fought him off. She went through hell because of a prosperous, well-know (but drunk) father for years.

Ironically, the old bastard celebrated his 90th a couple of weeks ago. Maybe that is incentive to go on drinking .. I don't know. I'd say that if you asked the question, you have a problem. In fact, if you don't think about alcoholism and you drink, you might have a problem.

Anyway, F-I-L dear has been in a loony bin for years .. drink free. "Mac," he says (at 90), "you've gotta get me out of this place! I need a drink." Lucky old ducky to even be breathing! Know what I mean?

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. Because it caused my husband to have to scrape his father's braincells

off the walls and floor of his home...:(

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

49. Awww....

that's awful...

:hug:

[flamingyouth]

50. ...

:hug:

[Kathleen04]

53. Tragic

My heart sank when I read that. :( :hug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

54. Damn, I'm sorry

[6th Borough]

59. I'm sorry too, but you aren't the only one, unfortunatly.

See my post below.

I'll be heading into "Fab Rehab" (that's my persernal name for it, since it costs 10 grand a month) in September.

Well, I'm heading off for multiple addictions, but don't screw around with alcohol. It might be the easiest, physically, to quit, but it is the hardest to "give up".

And if you live in Europe, god bless, seeeing as a not so tiny # of countries allow you to have a pint or 2 during lunch.

[CBHagman]

93. Wishing you a good recovery, 6th Borough.

Let us know how you are! :hug:

[auntAgonist]

101. unimagineable ..

:hug: to you and your husband Mrs G!

I have no words, tragic .. just tragic.


kesha

[ScreamingMeemie]

102. Thank you to all of you. It is the single most horrible moment in our

lives together. MrG calling me with the words, "Well, Dad finally went and shot himself." Alcoholism isn't a game...it's a sickness, a horrifying sickness that affects everyone in its path...takes lots of prisoners, not just the afflicted and never lets them go. We still are affected and Bill's been gone 5 years this past Father's Day. :hug:

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

51. Because

it's a slow, lonely, angry, sick, messy, hurtful to other people, isolating death.

I've been there. I'm lucky to be here now.

And it's not the least bit funny in any sense of the word.

[6th Borough]

52. Ask my Steel Reserve 211 why it's bad. Oh, and my revoked license. READ.

I don't think it can talk back, but I'm a an admitted non-medical (IE I don't get a physical reaction; tremors, etc. if I don't rink) alchoholic.

...and I'm drinking despite it.

Why is it bad? How 'bout a 5 year driver's license revocation?

How about going from a lean, fit, popular, independant guy to a slothful, overweight homebody supported by his parents?

Mods, I'm trying my best not break the rules here, but I need to put alcoholism in an easy to understand form, for the benefit of the original poster...

How does it feel going from having an extraordinarly attractive body attached to a fresh mouth around my dick every weekend to having a cocked and loaded .45 Remington rifle in my mouth?

Sure, I'm also addicted to amphetamines (Dexadrine is my thing...Meth is a bit too strong; Adderall and Ritalin are for kids) and Benzodiazaphines (klonopin in particular) as well, but I've never been arreseted when I haven't drunk.

So drink wisely.

[6th Borough]

65. Oh, one other thing. Drinking has personally cost me about 10k in court..

costs and lawyer fees.

Really. Alcoholism ain't something to be proud of. Take it from me. Shit, if you won't take my word from over DU, I'll install AIM or something on this compy if you need to talk about it, even though it nuked my "internet/e-mail" computer.

If anyone here really needs a kindred spirit (ahem...not that kind of "spirit"
;-) ) to talk to, I'll provide my cell phone addy to anyone who needs to talk shit over.

Remember, it might not just be you. My Grandfather (on my dads side) was an alcoholic. His only sister by the same mother and father is bipolar, paranoid (clinically), and also an alcoholic.

It seems to have skipped a generation and hit me, unfortunately.

[Missy Vixen]

57. The short version

>Why is it a bad thing?<

DH's father is an alcoholic. More accurately, he's a dry drunk. An exceedingly abusive, manipulative and controlling dry drunk. We don't see him. My father (and multiple members of my father's family,) was an alcoholic. My mother's father was an alcoholic. The damage in both of our families because of alcohol will most likely be played out over generations as a result. If DH and I are at a party, we might have ONE drink, nurse it all night, and stop. The percentages are too high for us to drink on a regular basis.

One of my friends is married to an alcoholic. I see the signs, I know what's going on. She has no idea. For instance, he's driven home twice in the past month while drunk, he can't drink without getting drunk, he's blacking out, etcetera. I tried to talk to her. She told me I "didn't know what I was talking about". That's okay. All I can do is suggest AlAnon when it gets worse, and it will get worse.

This is my experience. If others have a differing opinion, they're entitled to it.

Julie

[applegrove]

62. If it causes a serious problem in your life and you don't stop - you are

an alcoholic. I am.

[WCGreen]

63. All I can say is I have been sober for 22 years, longer than

I drank....

People are always asking me if they are Alcoholics. I say if you think you have a problem you probably do....

I have never come across someone who sucessfully walked away from alcohol to please someone else....

If the desire to be free of alcohol doesn't come from within....

It ain't gonna happen....

Mention was made of Dry Drunk....

Well, look at our dear president.... He quit becuase of an intervention with the prize of the Texas Governorship dangled before his eyes..... We all know the results of that little intervention....

Bush didn't want to quit... Still doesn't .....

[Tallison]

86. Thanks for sharing.

Posts like these are among the reasons I keep coming back to the lounge, too.;-)

[ovidsen]

64. You will know if you're an alcoholic.

You may deny it to everyone who questions your drinking, and you may even try and deny it to yourself. But deep down inside, you'll know.

Lots of people drink and they don't have a drinking problem, nor are they alcoholic. They enjoy a cold beer or a few shot of tequila with their friends, get happy or loopy every once in awhile, and very rarely they may even embarass themselves. I wouldn't call all of them alcoholic. Some may be, most most of them aren't.

But this recovering drunk thinks that if you ever ask yourself if you may be an alcoholic, you probably are. You may still be meeting major social or family responsibilities, you may have a killer career making a shitload of money, you may be the best artist or athlete of your generation... but if you (even only occasionally) think, "Could I be an alcoholic?", then Houston, you have a problem.

AA is one way to tackle it, but not every group is right for you. It's like when you're seeking a doctor or lawyer or a church. You've got to find the one that you are comfortable with, and that works for you. And contrary to what you might have heard, AA is not a cult, and doesn't want your money. As its bylaws state, "The only qualification for membership is a desire to stop drinking". You aren't obligated to be a slave to any "12 Step" program. Any genuine AA member just wants to share sobriety with you; they don't give a damn how you get there.

Hey, there are parts of drinking (the partys, the good times, the girls) I miss. There are parts (the hangovers, the cops, the jails, the disgust of family and former friends) that I most definitely do not. Being sober won't solve all your problems, but then again, neither will drinking. The worst part for me was how alcoholism sneaks up when you don't expect it. It took decades for me to develop a serious problem, but holy hell did I ever.

For whatever reason, booze just has a different effect on us alcoholics than it does on normal folks. Heck, I really do wish I was a normal drinker... then I could drink all the time! (get it?)

[6th Borough]

69. Same here...I can't even explain why I suddenly became a "criminal".

One day, drinking fine, holding my own, partying, having a grand time.

Next day (more like year); getting thrown in the slammer, can't drink in without cops showing up; but can't go out and notdrink.

Starting fights (and ending them violently) when I used to talk my self oujt of every potential fight, ever. (except for in the 4th grade, when I got my ass kicked).

I mean, going from someone who would ignore an agitated drunk jealous of...say, who I was talking to, to slamming their heads into pavement.

Hell, one time when after 16 or so pints and several milligrams of Clonazepam I punched a man in the face whom I had never seen before at a 7-11 (in Ft. Lauderdale, if you were curious). There was a cop directly behind me (I hadn't known that at the time).

He didn't press charges, but that isn't the point.

[ovidsen]

70. I've been there too.

It took me a little longer than a year to graduate from good time social drinking to snot faced, nasty drunk. In fact, it took me about 25 years. But I did. Ever so slowly and relentlessly. I don't even want to talk about the legal bills/fines.

Good luck on your upcoming trip to the farm. I've spent 3 stretches in detox/rehab joints. The last one was a year ago, and I like to think that this time, the "cure" has worked. BTW, IMO alcohol is one of the hardest monkeys to quit. You can quit most drugs (heroin, cocaine, meth) solo, without medical attention. Oh sure, you'll feel like shit, but alcohol and barbituates are the only addictive substances I know of that can kill you if you go cold turkey without medical assistance. No joke. Not all the time, but often enough. So I'm glad you're checking into your "Fab Rehab" to do it. I've also stopped with the chemical crutches (I grew increasingly fond of Xanax and Vicodin). Can't say I don't miss them either, but I'm glad I'm not taking them. And there were the dexies (I don't like meth either). Nothing like mixing uppers and downers, for that feeling SO CLOSE to being normal. Now, it's nice to wake up in the morning and not wonder what I did the night before, or wonder how I ended up where I ended up. And people seem to like me a bit more now that I'm not a slobbering, agitated asshole. This time for sure, right?

But you never know, do you?

Damn, I don't want to play the sympathy or morality card here, but to answer HypnoToad's original question in the simplest terms... if you think you might be an alcoholic, you probably are. If you're not, and you quit drinking, then you won't miss it much anyway.

[6th Borough]

83. I feel you, Ovidsen, but I'm not going to last.

Fuck...get me off Dexies? That means I'll never hit 170 pounds again. Aside from that, I can't concentrate on shit if I'm not either drunk or on Dexies. (yes, a strange dualism, but I'm sure you understand).

Clonazepam? You think alcohol is the hardest to quit? Try 6 mills of Klonopin a day for 3 years...quit it, almost instant seizures.

Luckily, I'm not "formally" addicted to alcohol as I am benzos and amps. I can not drink...hell, I don't even feel like drinking...when I've got my 180 Dexi precription filled. Then, I still don't feel like drinking...Till I run out of my 90 Klonopins, which I have just a few days ago.

Of course, any time I might come within 30 feet of the opposite sex, alcohol is a requirement.

Hell, I've had sex...2000 times or so? I can't remember a single time sober.

(BTW, quiting Benzodiazaphines can kill 'ya too, the same way that alcohol can).

[Tallison]

85. Thanks for sharing.

Keep coming back. ;-)

[Zhade]

71. It's a disease. My parents are recovering alcoholics.

Like, 15 years now, I think.

Too many bad memories to detail. I LOVE my parents very much, don't get me wrong - I am extremely proud of them.

It kinda fucked me up, though - I always thought I wasn't worth loving, when the reality was they were too busy hiding their drunkenness to really be there.

[bridgit]

73. too many ism's are suspect already...

alcohol-ism has long since been suspect by it's mere proximity to an 'ism' proper...imo...it is the ism itself that takes the shine of certain endeavors great & small, good & bad ~

[6th Borough]

81. It doesn't matter if you are addicted or not. If it drinking takes over..

your life, you're fucked.

[bridgit]

87. it doesn't matter what your substance...

it can be chocolate, or online shopping, where you may start out doing your substance; but when your substance starts doing you it is time for a major revision provided you are still able imo

[6th Borough]

91. Well, I certainly agre with your sentiment.

Being drunk, however, loosens up all of your other -isms.

Per your post, I have spent over a grand in one drunken oonline shopping session, for example. I'm not a shopoholic, but once, after a few beers and more than a couple Long Island Ice Teas, I went to the mall next door and spent over 4 thousand bucks... 3 grand on a watch, 2 150+ dollar pairs of shoes, 300 bucks in CDs, etc...just kept on spending.

I've had sex sober, but I've caught HPV drunk.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

[bridgit]

104. which is why i seldom shop under the influence...

on top of which, hubby accuses me of being a "penny pinching pixie" & "coo-coo for coupons" :shrug:

[ailsagirl]

74. I was never quite clear about alcoholism... what if you have a

drink every day-- or two? Does that make you an alcoholic?
Or is what makes you an alcoholic your dependence on it and
your inability to know when to stop?

:shrug:

[6th Borough]

84. The amount you actually drink makes no matter.

Can you skip a week?

You'll know if you're an alcoholic.

[barb162]

76. Have you ever talked to families of alcoholics?

Have you ever heard any member of a family of an alcoholic say how great it is?

[tibbir]

77. Both my parents are/were alcoholics.

My mother was emotionally and physically abusive to me and my father sexually and physically abused me. They had physical fights with each other within earshot of me and my brother when they had been drinking. I don't know HOW much better it would've been growing up had they laid off the booze but it definitely would have been better.

[SarahB]

80. Because someone can be sober for years...

and then when they don't take care of things and the stress gets too bad, they can just let alcohol (or whatever) take over. Maybe not enough to be violent or mean or lose their job. Maybe just enough to disconnect with their partners and be hostile most of the time. Maybe just enough that their partner worries about making sure everything stays ok and he can stay sober long enough again (without it getting too bad) so that, if necessary, she can be in aplace to fully support their children if need be.

I had a life with a man I loved. I had a family. I had a love with him. That f*cking disease messed it all up (and he still, even on the wagon, is in utter denial). I am grateful that I'm not married to him anymore, but it profoundly affected my life.

[RoyGBiv]

82. Little Kenny

We called him Little Kenny because he was, well, little. He topped out around 5'2" at the age of 31. It was odd because he came from a family of relatively tall people, or at least above average. His father was over 6', and his mother was about my height at 5'9". I don't know that this is an important detail, but I always wondered, especially after he told me he'd been drinking regularly since he was 12.

Kenny's father owned a contracting business, but as he approached his 70th birthday, he wanted to retire and leave the business to his only child. Unfortunately, Kenny couldn't be trusted with money or managing anything that required even the slightest bit of attention. He'd worked for his father at times since he could manage to stay sober at least until noon, but his dad felt the prospect of entrusting a business in which potentially lethal weapons like nail guns were used to someone who was drunk at least half the day was not a wise move.

But, Kenny's father wanted to try one last time to help his son and so he made him an offer. The business was his, completely, if he started working with his doctors, checked himself into an alcoholic rehabilitation center, and emerged with the label of "recovering." The father knew there were no guarantees, but if he could do this, at least the possibility existed.

Kenny agreed and decided that he go out with a bang, spending the entire week before his rehab started to stay as drunk as he could. He was very successful in this. At the beginning of the week he purchased three cases of 1/2 pint bottles and kept one of the bottles either in his back pocket or pressed to his lips at all times. However, the day before rehab began, Kenny still had about 24 of these bottles left, and he had to find something to do with them.

The day after Kenny entered rehab, I saw him in the grocery store. He was kicked out of rehab, he said while laughing, because he hadn't realized they did a strip search. Seems his solution to the excess number of bottles he had was to use duct tape to attach them to his body in an attempt to sneak them into the rehab center.

I saw him once more, a few months later, and his skin had turned a putrid shade of yellow. He looked to be about 70 himself. When he stood next to his father, it was hard to tell which was the eldest. Kenny died shortly before the following Christmas. He'd fallen into a coma one night and was found with an empty liter bottle of whiskey by his chair. His father died about a year later. The business simply went away.

Or, here's a shorter story.

When I was four, my father beat the shit out of me because I picked up the bottle of Jack Daniels he had placed in the middle of the pickup truck seat and dropped it, spilling the contents in the floor.

[intrepid_wanderer]

88. In my humble opinion...

... it's not a bad thing really...


unfortunately it frequently accompanies several other less positive attributes like:
-compulsiveness
-inability to be honest in stating/admitting deficiencies of self
-lack of social skills... etc.


and when combined with other things & used as a coping mechanism in the absence of other more effective ones, life gets rough for all involved. :(

[Trigger Hippie]

89. It destroyed me and my father's relationship

for many years when I was a child. Thankfully, he's pulled his life together 10 years ago and has been sober since. We have a wonderfully close relationship now and I am so happy about it. Alcoholism is a terrible thing for the alcoholic and the people who love them.

:hi:

[no name no slogan]

90. congrats to you and your father, darling

glad to hear things are good between you! :) :pals:

I'm pretty sure my ex- is an alcoholic-- and I'm pretty sure it had something to do with the end of our marriage and probably affected my mental health, too. I have nothing against drinking per se-- but if it starts taking over your life, it is a problem.

[Trigger Hippie]

98. Yeah, living with alcoholics can be

pretty devastating. I wish you the best in your new life!

:*

[no name no slogan]

99. Thanks!

I'm going over to choose my new apartment at noon. It's only about ten minutes from work, in a very nice older neighborhood, in an old brick building. Now I have to decide between the 1st floor and the 3rd floor. I'll probably take the 1st floor, because I'm getting too old to move stuff up and down the stairs. :P
:hi: :* :hug:

[Trigger Hippie]

100. Yeah, I'd take the first floor apartment too

especially if you don't have air conditioning. And you're not old! :P ;)

[MissMillie]

94. My son's father drank himself to death

for 14 years he choose alcohol over his own son, and wound up dead. My son can tell you, if you like.

[Shell Beau]

95. There are several reasons.

It destroys your liver and other organs if you drink enough. I have known a few people who have died b/c their organs all shut down on them due to drinking. It destroys your relationships with your family and friends. My aunt and friends just had an intervention with a friend who was/is in denial about her drinking. She was drinking Scope and Listerine or anything that had alcohol. They were on vacation and she left and blacked out and had no idea where she was. No one could go pick her up b/c she didn't know where she was (and this was in an unknown town).

It destroys everything. My grandfather lost all of his wealth b/c of alcohol. And he was a very successful man. A pure genius. My oldest brother battled it. Always drinking. And he died while drinking and driving at age 24. It becomes the most important thing in your life. Alcohol is the devil if you have a problem with it. It can ruin your life.

[6th Borough]

96. I said my grandpa was a drunk. Died living in his mom's attic.

mother's house.

Sure, we've all heard the "living in mom's basement" jokes, but my ghranpa was the real deal. Died of colon cancer (he also had mild cirrosis, which is why he avoided the doctor until he was the cancer spread to his liver, making it too late to remove).

After leaving the Marines (during which he was reduced in rank from a Seargant to Corporal for fighting) he bartended, and, after divorcing my grandmother, lived in my great-grandmother's attic until he died (in his late 60's).

[6th Borough]

97. Also beat my grandmother..only when drunk,ofcourse Hence the divorce. /NT

[billyskank]

103. Because it turns you into a complete and utter piece of shit

and destroys every single relationship you have, except maybe those with other alcoholics.

[realms]

109. American alcoholic

Ever ask why I drink? If there is a possibility to transcend this unholy morass you call society? My truest friend said he would hold my guts as I leaned over and puked over my tribulations.