Kitty cat question....ethical advice needed!

[friesianrider]

First, I'd like to kindly request that if you have nothing constructive to say, please don't reply to this...I really don't need advice like "get rid of the cat" or insensitive comments. I'm hoping for some real help here, because so many on here have offered such great advice in the past. I hope this doesn't turn into flamebait, I really just need some *constructive* opinions on what you might do. Thanks in advance :)

I have a 20-year-old kitty, Buffy, who I've had my entire life (so, since I was just over two years old myself) since she was a kitten. She was declawed way back when, before we really knew the torture and pain that is involved with declawing a cat (this was probably 1986 or aroundabouts). She has ALWAYS had a problem using her litterbox, but the last few months, she has not used her litterbox at all. I've read that declawed cats have something like a 40% greater chance of "litterbox problems," but she has started peeing exclusively in one corner of our dining room on the carpet, and it is - as one can imagine - very unpleasant. Thankfully we're due for new carpet anyway, but we've had to rip it up in the corner and are placing and replacing newspaper there everyday. It is smelly and gross, and I am really getting sick of it. As everyone is painfully aware, I am COMPLETELY devoted to my animals and would do anything for them. I have NEVER given away one of my pets and NEVER will, but my ethical question involves possibly putting her to sleep...she is obviously very elderly and is in the early stages of kidney failure, has diabetes, and now is having these problems. She also has been losing weight (vet just says it is old age) and also has trouble keeping her balance; you can literally walk by her quickly and she will nearly fall over. We have tried everything, and had her to the vet numerous times - he can't give us any explanation. Aside from that, she SEEMS relatively happy, and purrs a lot, but I also read that cats sometimes purr when in pain. I really have no way of knowing how uncomfortable she is.

I love her very much, but I just don't know how much longer I can stand living with a cat who uses my dining room as a toilet. It stains the carpet - even though it is replaced everyday - and smells horrible. We can't even use the dining room anymore for obvious reasons. I do love her very, very much, but she is very old and has several problems, but would it be wrong to put her to sleep considering there is no *urgent* life-threatening problem? Being a vegetarian, I take animal life as seriously as human life, and have many reservations about ending something's life when I am unsure they are truly suffering. Working at an animal shelter, all the time I see people who just dump their pets because they pee on the carpet, and I can't stand the thought of me doing something similar...even though she has a few other health problems.

We are very close with our vet due to our little herd we have here, and she has agreed that should we decide to have her PTS, she will come to our house and do it here so she will be more comfortable. I am just so very conflicted and confused. Any constructive advice is much appreciated.

[Fiona]

1. Please see a vet

it could be a number of things, including urinary tract infection, diabetes, or something else. Or, most likely, it's just her advanced age. I've known a few ancient cats who just couldn't get it together enough to use the litter box.

If you're determined to keep her alive (and it's the right decision if she's not otherwise suffering), then try putting some rubber mats and newspapers down on the place she prefers to pee, and clean it up regularly.

But I would also caution against thinking that putting her down is "taking her life". You gave her a life... a damned good one, from the sound of it. If she can no longer live comfortably, you also owe her an easy exit. Best of luck.

I've had to have a number of animals put down, and it's heart-breaking. But it's an obligation we take on when we accept them into our lives. I wish you both well.

[friesianrider]

22. Thank you...

I go back and forth between thinking she is just going downhill and thinking that she has been given a huge gift that very few cats receive: the gift of the same, loving family for 10 years. She has always been our cat from the time she was 5 weeks old until now 20 years old. She's received the best of care, the most love and attention, and the most traumatic thing she ever experienced was slipping outdoors for a few hours. I just wonder if I'm trying to justify putting her to sleep.

[KitchenWitch]

2. IMHO she is suffering....may not be very visible to you

but she is suffering and the most humane thing you can do is to put her to sleep. The balance thing might be due to kidney failure...which may also be the cause of the litter box problems. Unchecked diabetes in humans causes kidney failure, and so it is likely that even with good control, your dear kitty may be in end stage renal failure.

[burrowowl]

3. If she is healthy and happy

NO!
Is she suffering? YES.
Have you had her examined to see how bad her problems are?

[friesianrider]

12. Yes. She has been to a vet many times.

They can't seem to explain her litterbox problems. She sometimes seems happy - other times she seems very much in...maybe not pain but discomfort for sure.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. I'd try placing a litter box in that corner of the dining room, first...

just to see if she'll use it (or have you tried that?).

And if she doesn't use the box at all, where does she defecate? In this same spot in the dining room?

I'd have a hard time having an animal put to sleep because of that, too, personally...inconvenience is not a good reason for killing a living being.

[friesianrider]

13. Yes, have tried that...

She will go on the carpet right outside the box. She also defecates in the same spot in the dining room.

I would never kill for inconvenience...I loathe people who do that and see far too many animals dumped in shelters because of some minor inconvenience. I put up with A LOT from my animals, which definitely explains my dilemma, because I also value a semi-clean and semi-sanitary house. I've got 7 cats inside, so it's tough, but I do enjoy cleaning so it isn't a problem. I'm just having a hard time dealing with cat urine and feces in a dining room, but I have no way of really knowing how bad her health problems are other than what the vet last said which is that she is in kidney failure. Sometimes she seems happy and other times she seems like she is very uncomfortable...

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. Hm...

have you thought about boarding her with your vet, so that she can be observed over a period of a few days to a week? Perhaps it would help the vet determine her condition a bit better, AND it would give you a break...

I know how hard this is, and I really wish I could say something more helpful :(

[SoCalDem]

29. Go to a medical supply or look online for "chucs"

I think that's the spelling. They come in rather large sizes too.. Clean the spot with a masking solution (petsmart has them).. Put the chuc on the spot she uses, and perhaps put som shredded paper ontop. The chuc has a blue plastic back and it's absorbent.. when she does her business, just gather it up, and toss..

They are the things that hospitals put under you when you have had surgery..(in case of accidents)..

If nothing works, do NOT feel guilty about "helping her" to her next 'place'.

20 is ancient for most cats & dogs..

Think of what her life would have been without you..You have done everything you could, and perhaps her litter problem is a way to get your attention to her needs right now..Maybe she's telling you that she's ready..:hug:

[MissB]

48. This is a great idea.

[liontamer]

40. how high is the box

maybe she can't climb into it anymore

[flamingyouth]

5. Her kidneys are obviously failing her very much.

(I know she's been diagnosed with it.) I had a cat for a long time who just passed last summer. Tiffany was almost 17 and had the same problem. When I noticed that there was blood in her urine (on my pillow...) I took her to the vet where they diagnosed her with multiple organ failure and she went to the Rainbow Bridge the next day.

I'm very, very sorry for what you're going through. I know it's very hard. Buffy has been lucky to have lived such a nice life with you. :hug:

[Gloria]

6. This is such a difficult decision....but I'm wondering....could it be

possible that you have already decided deep down inside? I sort of get that feeling from your post...

It's obvious that you are a loving owner, so whatever you decide, just remember you are doing the best you can for Buffy. There's just no perfect answer for this situation.

[Greyhound]

7. maybe a stupid question

Since she has picked the dining room have you tried moving the cat box into her corner?:shrug:

[friesianrider]

14. Not stupid at all...

Yes, we've definitely tried that. She will urinate and defecate right outside the box on the floor. It's the weirdest thing I can't figure out why...she seems to urinate and defecate regularly, but she just refuses to use the box.

[burrowowl]

21. Could be her joints hurt

Has she been X-rayed to see what condition her disks, leg joints etc. are in?
Does she still 'enjoy' life? If no, then, it is time. 20 years is pretty old for a cat.

[China_cat]

28. It may seem like too easy a thing

but how high are the sides of her box? Could it be that she just can't navigate them anymore?

We also have a 20 year old who had problems getting into the box. We fixed her one with lower sides (actually almost no side on one end) and that took care of the problem.

Another thing you'll need to do is get an enzyme cleaner to thoroughly clean the areas where she's been going or she will continue to go back there. Believe it or not, the Urine Gone (http://www.asseenontv.com/prod-pages/urine_gone.html?gg=urineg) actually works and the black light will help you make sure. Urine glows under the black light.

[thinkingwoman]

8. litterbox problems are so hard to deal with

because they can happen for so many reasons.

I'm not sure I can offer you any real advice. But I can offer you sympathy and understanding. We have 4 cats and 3 dogs and we would do anything for them.

One of our cats developed a severe litterbox problem which involved suddenly deciding that all urinating had to be done on our kitchen counters. You can imagine our horror. We tried everything and eventually that cat became the first to be forced to live outside (we have a privacy-fenced yard and very safe shelter for her).

She has her claws, however, and has actually become much happier and healthier since staying outdoors full time.

Since your kitty was declawed, I can't see that being an option for you.

I can only suggest that you trust your vet's lead on this, don't make any hasty decisions, and, finally, don't second guess yourself too much. You sound like a loving pet owner. Good luck.

[progmom]

9. that is such a difficult place to be

:hug:

Has your vet given you a good idea of how much she might be suffering? I would look to her for guidance here.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Patchuli]

10. My beloved cat started to lose it at 17

and peeing in the kitchen by the box. I didn't do anything until she began to have mini-strokes and could barely drag herself to food and water. When her quality of life was gone was the time. It has been 13 years now since then and I miss her everyday.

I now have the kitten that Sadie raised when I so rudely adopted her. Her name is Midnight and she is 16 years old and has Altzheimers. She is forgetting to poop in her box in the bathroom and has been using *guess where?* the DINING ROOM. What is it with the damn dining room?!

I have thought about getting a cage for her (a roooooooooomy cage) that has perches and a litter box but it would be hard on us to do that. She is healthy as hell but she is senile. I will keep her healthy and fed until age takes her from me. But for now, she is healthy, just crazy.

I empathize 1000% with you. I think that your own heart must tell you what is right. If Buffy is not suffering, it's not time. If she is, it is.

*hug*

[Lorien]

11. This may sound weird, but try Prozac

in liquid form for your kitty (the vet can prescribe it). I had an older-and very sick-cat who was doing the same thing (also declawed). The vet tried a number of remedies, but finally gave prozac a shot-and it worked!

[autorank]

16. If the vet says her kidneys are failing then you need to think of

both the cat and your situation. Twenty years, what a gift. It's ultimately your call but ask yourself, given the obvious deterioration (in the case of kidney failure), are you keeping the cat alive for the cats benefit or for yours? (not a criticism at all, a way to help you move forward). It you're avoiding putting kitty down because you have problems with it, I'd say move forward. Doing it at home is mandatory, IMHO. I've been through this with a dog living under similar circumstances, our "first" dog. It was extremely difficult but I would not have done it any differently. Burial of a pet on your property is illegal in my county. We did it any way and put up, you guessed it, a dog statue over the grave. It's a great feature of our back yard and makes me happy when I look at it. Good luck. You have a very lucky kitty. I can imagine how you feel because, given my memories, this was very difficult to write.

[expatriot]

17. euthanasia is the compassionate option

My first reaction is that yes, she is suffering and if her vet (maybe get a second opinion) thinks she is suffering, putting her to sleep would be the most humane thing. Twenty years is a very long, full life for a cat. She is very lucky. Euthanasia is a very compassionate choice.

I think sometimes very-well intentioned people will go through tremendous expense to keep a terminally suffering animal alive when it is in the best interest of their companion to be let go. The fact of the matter is that animal medical options are less developed, available and financially possible than for us humans and so euthanasia has to to be considered at an earlier stage than it would be considered for us humans. I say this just in case you ever question your decision with "Would I put my elderly parents to sleep just because their bodies started failing?" -

Fortunately, my children (pictured below) both just turned 3 -- we hopefully won't have to make any hard decisions like this for many, many years.

[friesianrider]

19. Thank you...

We had to have out 8-year-old dog put to sleep last December (day before Christmas) because she had a tumor in her nasal passage, and it was inoperable due to its location and her older age. It was difficult, because it was one of those situations where you want to do it before she starts really suffering but you want her to have every bit of life that she can knowing that the end is near. I've struggled ever since wondering if it was the right decision at the right time. I just have such a hard time with me personally making a decision to end something's life. It is just so...heavy. I'm the kind of nut who will go completely out of my way to rescue little beetles from our swimming pool...it is such a difficult decision.

Your babies are beautiful. Buffy is the oldest of our clan, but I have two 3 year olds (brother and sister kitties found in a garbage bag along the interstate), a 6-year-old, a 5-year-old, an 8-year-old, and a 6 month old kitten who wandered into our yard a few weeks ago starving and needing to be neutered :) I love my pets so much, and it is so difficult to decide what to do...

[expatriot]

24. I just took a little spider outside for my wife....

she put it in a paper cup and I released it. It was lucky, Sonora likes to find them first and treat them a lot less humanely!

you're welcome.

[Lilyhoney]

18. When I was 17,

I got my first cat, Meow. Very small, long hair calico. She travelled all over the country with me and I loved her very much. She was the only thing constant in my life, until I met my husband 6 yrs ago.

She had behavior problems and pissed on my bed and other stuff her whole life. So cat piss was never my issue.

After 14 years, I chose to put her to sleep. She had been sick for over a year and the vet did all they could do. It was my decision to stop her suffering. The vet came to my home and put her to rest on my couch. I burried her in the front yard next to my husbands 12 yr old cat that had been killed by a dog 2 years earlier. I started to engrave her head stone, but I am not finished yet because It hurts so much. I feel like once it is done and posted in the ground then she will really lie there.

Believe me when I say I am sorry for your inevitable loss.

:hug:

[Rhiannon12866]

20. Have you ever tried Feliway? This is just a shot in the dark, here, but

Feliway is the one product that I'm aware of that was developed for the problem of a cat urinating in unacceptable places. It's a synthetic cat pheromone which calms the cat and makes the cat very reluctant to urinate anywhere that it's been sprayed. I got it for my rescued cat, just to calm her, but its primary use is for unacceptable urination. They claim a 90-some-percent success rate. What your cat's doing is not, technically, spraying, but it sure couldn't hurt to try it.

http://www.catfaeries.com/feliway.html

Here's another helpful article I found on the subject.

http://www.vetinfo.com/clitbox.html#litterpan

I totally understand your predicament. When faced with such a decision, I have always chosen continued life unless I knew that I just had no other choice, which has happened. *sigh* Your best resource is, of course, your vet, who can tell you exactly what's going on, medically, with your cat. But, having been through this several times, both with cats and dogs, I've also learned to trust my instincts. While I do trust my vet, who has been exceptional in getting to know my animals, I have learned that no one really knows my animal better than me, and I have understood what's been going on with them better than my vet more than once. I'd just exhaust every resource and you might want to do some research on a specific medical condition, as I did. I differed with both of my vets, after my dog was diagnosed with Cushing's Syndrome, on the type of medication which should be prescribed. They went with my choice and, at the end of the day, both agreed that I'd been right. This was my dog.;(

Let us know how you make out with this. I've been where you are and I totally understand and sympathize.:hug:

[friesianrider]

23. THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH!

I want to thank you all for your wonderful advice...everyone had excellent advice and suggestions, and of course your support has been immensely helpful. It's been several weeks since we've been to the vet, so I have jotted down some notes from the suggestions on this thread and will ask about them all and ask the vet for her opinion as to whether or not she could gauge the discomfort/suffering going on with Buff.

You've ALL been so wonderful and helpful, and I (and Buffy) truly thank each and every one of you for posting. It means so much to me, and I will keep you posted of any new developments. Thanks again everyone so very much :)

[Spinzonner]

26. Have you tried just putting litter on a mat or paper

and see if she will use it ?

If she will do her toilet next/near the litterbox it seems like she has the reflex to use it, or at least part of it.

Maybe its mainly a physical problem getting into the box because of age, joint problems, or something else - especially when she has to do it quickly enough.

If she will do it in/on the litter but not in the current litterbox, maybe you just need to get a very shallow pan or a box with an opening that's easy for her to get into the box through.

[flvegan]

30. This would be my suggestion, as well.

You have a very difficult decision ahead of you, and you'll make the right one.

[AlGore-08.com]

25. The balance thing makes me wonder; has your vet checked her blood pressure

My cat Boudicca is 19 years (and three months!) when she had balance problems, the vet diagnosed them as a symptom of high blood pressure.

[LynneSin]

27. Check the litter you are using, some can be hard on declawed cats

If she has a tough time using the litter box it may be due to litter that hurts her declawed paws - so check the brand and look for something like this: http://store.petextras.com/swheatscoopc.html

Also, I had a problem with a random piddler (glaces at Abbott) but he was healthy. But to solve the problem I did the following things

1.) Sprayed the area with a cat-trainer odor that repels cats. One thing about cats is they'll go back to piddling the same place over and over again
2.) Covered the area with alumnium foil. Cats hate that too

I finally rearranged the furinture so he can't get back there but I still get longing looks.

Finally, the choice you make shouldn't be influence by the opinions of others here at DU. We had a thread once about whether we would spend $4k to save our cats if that's what would possibly keep them alive. I know I absolutely adore my 2 cats and would do anything to make their lifes the best possible one, but I also know that I do NOT have that kind of cash lying around unless I want to max out credit cards and pull from my new house down payment funds. Of course those of us who would have chosen to not spend the money were vilified but despite that I still would stick with my original plan. Your wonderful feline friend has lived longer than most cats and if he/she is suffering then maybe it's time to do the most humane thing for him/her

[LisaL]

31. Did you vet checked her for urinary problems?

I had the same problems with my cat, who was peeing all over the place.
But my cat is very young, 1 year old only. He has been diagnosed as having cystitis. He had been put on special urinary food and has been doing better so far. If he was 20, and vet couldn't help with his problem, I would see no moral problem with PTS, because 20 cat years would be over 100 years in human years.
Also, could you confine her in a large cage so she doesn't pee all over the carpets? That's what my vet told me to do with my kitty.

[Samurai_Writer]

32. It's not about the kitty pee, it's about her pain

I just had to put my 15 year old cat to sleep end of March, and my 5 year old dog to sleep the end of June. Talk about traumatic. My 15 year old cat had been hyperthyroid for 2 years, and in the last couple months of her life, was steadily going downhill. She was the type of cat who purred CONSTANTLY.. the vet had a hard time hearing her heartbeat because of it whenever she examined her.

One day, she was suddenly MUCH worse... and I knew it was the end. However, looking back on it, I should have not let her live in pain that long. By the time I had her PTS, she was obviously dying.

With my dog, it was very unexpected -- pancreatic cancer. He went from being his normal self to very ill in less than two weeks. Although I could have let him linger a few more days, I decided to put him to sleep the day after I got the cancer diagnosis.

Animals can't tell us when they are in pain. Cats, especially, are good at hiding their pain. You have had 20 wonderful years with your kitty. It's time for her to go somewhere she won't be in pain anymore.

My heart goes out to you, sweety. I know what you are going through.

Hugs,
Bella

[LisaL]

36. Trust me, if you had a cat peeing all over the place, it would

be about your pain too.
I assure you, it's extremely unpleasant.

[Samurai_Writer]

44. I understand that, Lizzy

I was just trying to say that don't feel guilty about putting her to sleep, because you are not doing it because of her peeing -- you are doing it because she is in pain and is not going to get better. If there was a chance she would get better, I would say, give her that chance, but from what you have told me, and from my experience with my own pets, I think it's kinder to end her suffering.

hugs,
Bella

[LisaL]

45. I agree. If the cat isn't old, there are all kinds of treatments

for urinary problems. There are medications, anti-anxiety pills, glucosamine, special foods, etc. But if a cat is 20, perhaps she is simply incontinent, like a 100 year old human could be. I am sure she lived a nice life, but it sounds like she has too many medical problems.

[Lisa0825]

33. I just put my kitty to sleep last night :-(

She hasn't been eating right, but her belly was getting bigger, and I was planning to take her to the vet this weekend. Last night I got home, and she was obviously weak, and was having difficulty walking on the hardwood floors. I took her to the emergency vet clinic, and the vet said that her liver felt enlarged, and that he could run tests and rehydrate her, but basically any of the options that would cause the set of symptoms she had would be pretty bad, and difficult, painful, and expensive to treat. It was so awful watching her try to stand up on the vet's table.:cry: :cry: :cry:

I know it's a horrible decision to make, but I have also been told by various vets, books, etc, that cats purr to comfort themselves. If your cat has been falling over, that's a major bad sign. Cats love being clean, so not being able to use the litter box must be very distressing to the cat too. and it is true that cats are the best at hiding their pain. I keep wanting to kick myself for not bringing my kitty to the vet sooner, but I didn't realize how bad off she was until last night, when she couldn't hide it anymore.

I'm really sorry your kitty is not well. I'm sorry you feel youhave to make this kind of decision. It hurts a lot, but in the end, you're just trying to do the best thing for a member of your family.

[progmom]

37. I'm so sorry

:hug:

[Lisa0825]

41. thanks, I needed that:-)

:hug:

[Tallison]

43. Sorry to hear that.

My thoughts and prayers with you both. :grouphug:

[caty]

34. Take her to the vet.

It could be something as simple as a bladder infection.

[LisaL]

35. Sounds like this cat has been to a vet numerous times already.

[Deep13]

38. See if there is some medical problem that can be treated. Otherwise...

...have a care for yourself euthanize the cat. I like cats, although I am allergic to their dander. I appreciate cats' apparent don't-give-a-shit attitude. (Dogs just try too hard.) They are also relatively low maintenance.

I know you consider your cat to be part of the family, but she isn't. She's very old and is causing serious damage to your house. A house is a major investment for your familily and you have a right to protect it. Once the smell of cat urine gets in the wood or whatever, it never comes out. She may not have any immediate life-threatening problems, but she is old and sick and you are just dragging out the inevitable. We had a similar problem with out rabbit. It had kidney failure and we decided that the painful medical treatment necessary to keep the hopper around a little while longer was not worth the expense.

You are not committing murder or being a hypocrit by euthanizing her.

[spinbaby]

39. We've had some luck with puppy pads

We have an elderly fellow with failing kidneys who decided that his favorite place to pee was on clothes left on the floor. We've kept all the laundry picked up and put down puppy pads in strategic areas. He seems to like the puppy pads and we've gotten him so we only need to put pads down upstairs next to the litter box and downstairs in the shower (for some reason he really likes to pee there). We just keep and eye on the pads and change them as needed. They're treated to keep the smell controlled so there's no smell issues.

[mcar]

42. It sounds like your little darling is suffering

My oldest cat is 11 and I'm already worrying about that sad day. On the other hand, I wouldn't want her to suffer.

My MIL had to have her 2 German Shepherds euthanized on the same day some years back (one had lung cancer, the other hip dysplasia). It was horribly sad and very hard on her, but we could all see it was right for the animals.

It just may be time to let her go and be so thankful for the time you had with her. Good luck with your decision.

[barb162]

46. I struggled more than once with this issue and went both ways

depending on the cat and me at the time.

Have any of the other pets been ambushing her when she is trying to go to the washroom? That is often the reason they won't use a particular tray or area.

PS I had to put a cat down once because of this, the ambushing. There was no way due to the configuration of the house (open floor plan) I could stop it. I still try not to think about it to this day and it was years ago. It was my dining room too.

[Felix Mala]

47. Believe me, the vet knows. He's just suggesting "treatment" because

he knows you're not ready to let go. We just went through this last summer and our 22 y.o. kitty went through five months of pissing on himself, not eating, falling down and staying in the same spot all day. He got vitamins, thyroid medication and injections on numerous trips to the vet. All of this did was prolong our ultimate decision, which was to let him go. It would have been better to have done it right from the start. His quality of life took a major nose dive. That first day when he stopped in his tracks and laid his head down while still standing was a sign that we he'd reached the end of the line. It's hardly a tragedy to have a kitty 20+ years and then put him down. He had an incredible life. Far superior than what most animals experience here on earth.