Is it that girls/women are snobs...?

[brentspeak]

Or I'm missing something?

As someone who has been unsuccesful in the finding-a-girlfriend department, I have recently found myself involuntarily turning to bitterness. Women, in my mind, smile and move towards guys who either a) tall (or, at least, not short); b) good-looking; c) someone with a great job (doctor,lawyer,etc.) Everyone else is immediately screened-out.

Don't blame me for thinking this: This is how my thoughts are manifesting themselves these days. I'm no more responsible for my thoughts than I am for the daily weather.

However, a qualifier: I admit that I have no idea how to obtain a girl; I don't know what's socially acceptable when speaking to women with the intention of asking for a date (be it strangers or co-workers).

[progmom]

1. you are not responsible for your thoughts?

[StopTheMorans]

2. that's exactly where I called bullshit

you're almost TOTALLY responsible for your own thoughts, unless you have some sort of chemical imbalance.

[Misunderestimator]

21. Funniest excuse for misogyny I've seen to date!

:eyes:

[progmom]

30. yes - at least now they seem to be going for entertainment value too!

:woohoo:

[meegbear]

3. Don't ask for a date ...

ask if they'd like to meet for a cup of coffee. A lot less pressure on both parties and if you hit it off, then ask for a date.

[Blue-Jay]

4. Oh man....

I think this needs to be posted.

[StopTheMorans]

8. time for a refill...

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

53. I posted that earlier on another thread

I am so sick of this shit :eyes:

[Shell Beau]

5. Don't know what to tell you!

Sounds like the problem may lie within! :shrug: I mean, your hobby listed on your profile is agonizing. :think:

[liontamer]

6. how is the fact that you're both socially awkward

and one who views women as objects somehow correlated to women being snobs?

[MrScorpio]

7. Are you for real?

:popcorn:

[bettyellen]

14. no baby, but thank god you are.

:loveya:

[MrScorpio]

16. C'mere and give us a hug, Honey Pie

:hug:

[bettyellen]

19. anytime, my dear

:hug:

[tjdee]

9. Women don't like men with no confidence.

You described your problem right there.

First you say you can't control your thoughts, then you say you have no idea how to talk to women.

So how exactly would a woman even know you wanted to date her? You can't fault her for going out with a tall doctor if *you* don't know how to ask her out, LOL!

Women SO don't care about looks. I think I'm going to write a book on that--totally, totally a falsehood. Women *notice* looks, but they will not write off a man/woman just because he doesn't look like Jude Law/Angelina Jolie.

[StopTheMorans]

11. if i were a straight girl, i'd probably write off a man who looked like

Angelina Jolie, but that's just me :shrug:

[Eloriel]

50. You mean John Voigt

her dad? She's the spittin' image of him, but with dark hair instead of his blonde (now gray) hair.

[redqueen]

10. No more than men are.

:boring:

[Wetzelbill]

35. I was about to say that

[bettyellen]

12. you don't know whats socially acceptable. i dunno dude, that could be part

of it.
how about hello for starters?
maybe gals think you're a snob if you ain't talking to them.
and if you're looking for a cookie cutter approach to talking to people, you gotta look around and see that just doesn't work.

[ghostsofgiants]

13. Good thing I picked up those marshmallows earlier...

[Shell Beau]

17. Do you have something to stick them on? I will get

some hot dog weenies that way we can have both.

[ghostsofgiants]

23. I also picked up some lengthy skewers, as a matter of fact

(Not to scale)

[Shell Beau]

25. Perfect! The flame is still small, but give it some time

and our marshmallows will be ooey gooey good!

[bettyellen]

24. mmm mmm smores. that's what we wimmen reallly want.

[tigereye]

37. smores!

:rofl:

[StopTheMorans]

15. .

:kick: damn it, this board is suffering from outrage fatigue; come on people! :kick:

[Misunderestimator]

18. Can't you post this crap on one of the million hate-women threads

out there already? :mad:

Speaking as one who doesn't "move toward men" at all... piss off.

[JimmyJazz]

38. It's getting, you know:

:boring:

[ihaveaquestion]

20. What's your hobby? Go out and do it!

Then invite folks to join you - either gender. Have a good time and stop fretting about it.

Now if you're just out meet women and enjoy yourself at the same time - go dancing! I swing dance and have a great time with almost all the guys who ask me to dance. You don't like swing - do salsa or country or ballroom or whatever. Women LOVE to DANCE!!!!!

You don't know where to dance? Google it. That's how I found the dancing crowd in Tampa. I go out 3 - 4 times a week to swing dances.

On edit - a little advice: If you do go out dancing, remember to shower and brush your teeth before going. Also wear a freshly laundered shirt. Common sense, right? Well, you'd be surprised at how many men just don't - well you get the picture. (I don't dance with women much, so I can't speak for how many women forget to brush.)

[jmm]

22. How come you get to have standards but women can't?

Every man I have ever heard complain about how women want someone who is a) tall (or, at least, not short); b) good-looking; c) someone with a great job (doctor,lawyer,etc.) has held women up to equally harsh standards.

[redqueen]

31. But in the movies the overweight unattractive guys get the leading lady!

Women are supposed to like men because... well, just because!

[ihaveaquestion]

34. And all the guys over 50 have 20 yr olds falling all over them.

Like that happens in real life! :sarcasm:

[redqueen]

40. You mean... *gasp*

Those movies and videos and beer commercials are LYING?!

:cry:

:eyes:

[Eloriel]

51. Because it's their DUTY and men are ENTITLED

you forgot the rules about this. Tsk, tsk. :spank:

[XemaSab]

26. First, ask out women you know

go up to them, smile, look them in the eye, and say "I was wondering if maybe you wanted to meet me for coffee on Saturday." Then smile again.

This is the first step. It all follows from there.

[crispini]

27. You are not responsible for your thoughts any more than

you are responsible for the WEATHER? What complete nonsense. You can control your deeds, your words, and your thoughts. Each is progressively more difficult to control, but it can be done, and should be done. In fact, most reasonable, intelligent adults learn to exercise some degree of control over their thoughts during their lives. People control their thoughts while they play POKER in order to control their body language, for pete's sake.

And, try "Would you like to go get a cup of coffee sometime?" That is adequate, and works. Then take it from there.

[Schema Thing]

32. I don't drink coffee :-(

:hi:

[crispini]

45. LOL. Tea, then! :P

:hi:

[LaurenG]

28. Your experiences have taught you that

some women are snobs. I can tell you that some really are. Not most but some. You need to get out there and search for a nice liberal girl. One who knows what the word values mean. Someone who will value you. They are out there. They are looking for you. You know the one you're looking for is out there somewhere. Be you, the best you and leave the rest to fate.

As for asking for a date, just ask. If they say no OK ask the next one you are attracted to. 2 things, never give up and accept that things happen in spite of your best. Best wishes for a speedy love connection.

[WeRQ4U]

29. Whoa brother, not women's fault.

You have to get some confidence. You've already eliminated yourself, categorically, before attempting to approach anyone. To me, this just seems like an easy way to deal with your own fear. If you tell yourself woman wouldn't like you, and would reject you if you talk to them, it makes it that much easier to not try.

Also, you'd be kidding yourself if you said YOU didn't have a certain criteria. Who do YOU approach?

Either way, good luck to you. If you get rejected by a complete snobbish twit, then take it as a blessing and try someone else.

[UncleSepp]

33. Let me translate...

Hmm, let me run this through Bullshitfish and see what comes out...

"Is it that girls/women are snobs...?"
Posted by brentspeak
Or I'm missing something?

I can't get a female and I'm starting to get cranky. It must be something over which I have no control, because it sure can't be ME, even though I'm socially inept.

If you're going to criticize me, don't. I'm not responsible. In fact, I'm not really looking for answers. I just want confirmation that females are snobs.

OK, look, pal. First, start by distinguishing between women (adults) and girls (children). If you can't distinguish between a female child and your desired romantic and sexual partner, maybe you should get help.

Second, neither women nor girls are property. One obtains property. If you want to obtain a girl, you'll have to buy her or steal her. If you want to go around stealing female children or trafficking in the slave trade, I'd suggest not posting about it to teh intarweb.

Was that not what you meant? Well, if you meant something else, you ought to have said something else. If what you really want is to befriend an adult woman who will eventually become interested in dates and romance, you're going to have to start by changing the way you think about women. Changing the way you speak about women is a good first step.

[redqueen]

41. .

:applause:

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

42. Perfect.

Well said!!

*golf clap*

[crispini]

46. ROFL. Bullshitfish.

too funny! :thumbsup:

[tjdee]

36. So brentspeak, you actually plan to respond, or anything?

?

[brentspeak]

47. I was away

I see all the fuss my thread caused.

I'm not sure why people are calling me a misogynist; I thought a "misogynist" was some guy who abused women, treated them like dirt, which is the last thing I would ever do.

I don't know - for reasons too numerous to delve into here, I've been sort of programmed to be a "failure", and that especially goes double with women. When I was in NYC the other day with some friends, all around me were thousands of couples. That made me especially depressed, and among the resulting thoughts I had were "these girls would look at me as if I had two heads just for talking with them, but would probably have sex with these guys by the second date!" I do feel screened out from the get-go. I've paid close attention to how women have reacted to me and other guys they've met, say at work; I get treated differently.

One of my crazy ideas is to "hire" a couple of average NYC career-type girls, and ask them to critique the way I look, my background, etc., tell me what the heck is "wrong" with me. At least, I would get some answers for once.

[Terran]

48. You need to be honest about what you want.

If all you want is sex, I suggest you try paying for it. Because with your mindset as illustrated by your OP, you'll never get a female into bed with you without paying her.

On the other hand, if you want some meaningful interaction with a woman who *might* actually be attracted to you eventually, you need to stop thinking about "obtaining" a woman and decide to deal with women as human beings, not things. That's your first step.

[brentspeak]

49. I must have done a lousy job explaining myself

People are making too much of the word "obtaining". I used that word inside of "getting", as in "getting a girlfriend". The latter sounded kind of high-school-ish, so I just changed the word. It goes no deeper than that.

I neither want strictly sex, nor do I view women as objects or things. Not in the least, really. On the other hand, as you should know, there are a lot of guys who DO view women as merely sexual objects, but have no trouble catching a woman's eye.

Some of the responses I got on this board were a little too quick to paint me as some hateful guy whose attitude is driving women away. My cynicism is relatively new, and I don't even show it when I'm around people. So that theory of my failure doesn't wash.

[liontamer]

52. come to the next meetup in nyc

We'll critique you, nicely if you ask. But my guess is that the first thing we're going to notice is that you seem like a bitter person, and no one wants to hang out with bitter.

[Ariana Celeste]

39. From a woman who didn't do any of what you listed:

I understand why you may be feeling that way. And while there may be a lot of snobby women out there, many men are like that, too.

As for myself...

When I hooked up with my man, he was 20 years old, unemployed. A half inch shorter than me. Doing a lot of drugs. He is a video game geek, a computer nerd. Lean but not athletic. A dark sarcastic sense of humour. For the life of him, could not utter "I love you" to his own mother. And quite simply did not take very good care of himself.

We met on the internet and I saw something in him that snobby girls might not have seen. A good person who is sensitive (though he tried so hard to hide it.) and empathetic and cared about the world.

So I flew out here to be with him. He got a job, and is now a lead/ planner/ & asst supervisor at this place. He takes care of himself, dropped the drug habit, and for the first time in years- told his mother he loved her just a couple months ago. He actually talks to his family now, pays his own bills, and is a very happy man.

He is still short, still not athletic, still has that dark humour that I love. Still a gamer and computer nerd. And that's who he is, and I love him for it, and everything else about him.

He wasn't searching for me, and I wasn't searching for him. We just happened to find eachother. We were ourselves, we weren't trying to impress anybody.

So anyways. I promise you not all women are as you describe- and I know you can't help but feel that way. Before I found my man, I felt that all men were arrogant assholes only looking for sex. Sometimes you get so fed up that you can't help but feel utter contempt for the other gender.

Just be yourself, and try not to search so hard. You don't want a snobby woman anyways.

:hug:

[SmokingJacket]

43. Nothing is more of a turnoff than a man who doesn't like women. nt

[Shell Beau]

44. Hey! Where did you go?

[skygazer]

54. Yep, that's it

We're flibbertigibbits. We only want the tall doctors. Or the guys in the Armani jackets. Or the ones who buy us diamonds. That's why you never, ever see average couples together in the supermarket shopping, or out together at a restaurant, or on the bus or walking down the street. It's because we're snobs.


It's a damn good thing there are so many tall doctors out there, that's all I can say.

[Eloriel]

55. You've gotten some very good advice, tho some of it might sound

a little glib.

One of the reasons you keep getting criticized for treating women as objects is because you not only don't HAVE any relationships -- not even friendships -- with women-as-human-beings, you don't talk about that.

That's your first step. MAKE FRIENDS. It doesn't always have to be about romance first and foremost, let alone sex.

All you need to do is be yourself, but that may mean you will have to do a little work on your Self. See if you can be the type of person (authentically, not faked) that YOU would like to date, gender issues aside, if you know what I mean. Are you taking care of yourself physically -- not spending endless hours in the gym, but just being clean and neat and well-kempt, etc. Doin' the most with what you've got (for now). Do you have some things to talk about? Do you understand the value of asking questions and being genuinely interested in learning about the other person? Do you understand enough about basic etiquette to not come off as an oaf or a boor? Can you tell a good joke, laugh at yourself a bit, smile and laugh in general?? Do you like YOURSELF?

Stop blaming women. They're only mirroring YOUR bad attitudes. Frankly, I'll bet some of them are afraid of you -- you're coming off a little dark, and the "I'm not responsible for my own thoughts" routine doesn't help much.

So, stop thinking of them as something you can't attract and start thinking about them as "human beings you'd genuinely like to get to know, and who knows where that will lead?"

[Lilith Velkor]

56. "how to obtain a girl"

That's a big red flag right there. I suggest you seek help, and stick to masturbation or hookers until you are ready for a relationship.

Confidence is learned through practice. So is self-control. Good luck.