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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:36 PM
Original message
Whats the matter with Kansans?
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 01:38 PM by Moochy
I think that Kansans have a chip on their shoulder since that book came out. :) discuss?

What's the Matter with Kansas? How Conservatives Won the Heart of America
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805073396/002-4305020-1784056?v=glance

on edit added link to Tomas Franks book! :hi:
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Too much wheat
Not enough sense
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Maybe they should look into Spelt?
:shrug:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Too much money
Not many people who don't live here realize how wealthy most of those wheat farmers are.
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I Know How To Do it Donating Member (499 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. The number 1 problem with Kansas is Phil Kline.
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XboxWarrior Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. truth is ............
dem bastards can't drive in the hillsssssssssssss

from Colorado
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Too many religious whackjobs
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kick-ass-bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. I prefer this....
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. They're stuck in the last century
Studying creationism instead of evolution.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. If only Kansas would move into the 21st century...
we could vote for action movie stars as our governor and get a champion for the people like Diane Feinstein to be our Senator.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. My region is betterer than yours
Yeah my region is better than yours nyah nyah..

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TammyLittlenut Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. I JUST read that book!
It's great. I mean, it's basically what we already know - that middle Americans often vote against their best economic interests because of God - but he focuses specifically on his home state. Very interesting.

What I found funny (sort of) was his point that these people are not even getting what they want from a moral standpoint. Gays and lesbians gain more rights, abortion is still legal and neither of these things are really the priority of the Republican Party. They just use these issues to keep votes pouring in while they decimate small town America.

It's mind-blowing.
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I Know How To Do it Donating Member (499 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I read it about a month ago. I Live in Nebraska and every Library
in town had at least 2 copies of this book and they were ALWAYS checked out. I finally snagged a copy when I saw it in the to be checked in pile.
Your post is right on about the book. Since I live pretty close to Kansas I take keen interest in their politics, because I don't want it spilling up here. Of course Nebraska is about as Red as they come, but they are nowhere near the insanity going on in Kansas right now.

It's all about causing an uproar over silly moral and cultural differences to the point that real issues are forgotten. Gay marriage issues become more important than Balanced Budget issues.

Oh yeah, Strangers With Candy was the greatest show ever.
The SWC movie was completed and will be released late this year.
It's already been shown at film festivals.
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TammyLittlenut Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. haaaa - glad you recognized Tammy. eom
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. I was just in Nebraska a few weeks ago
and I have never seen so many SUVs and Hummers with Xtian and W bumper stickers in my life.

So you may think we are insane here in Kansas, but you guys aren't too far behind. :hi:
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I Know How To Do it Donating Member (499 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. believe me. We are right on your tail as far as the number of fundie nuts
that live here.
The only difference is that our Fundie nuts aren't as organized as your fundie nuts into getting other fundie nuts into positions of Government power.
We have nobody even close to Kay O'Conner and Phil Kline.
Our Reps like Chuck Hagel and Ben Nelson, actually give the Republican Party fits.
Maybe the Nebraska fundie nuts are just more lazy.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. And you know that where I'm at
we are running closely behind both of you!
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kansas allows marriage for 12 year olds with parental consent
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. We've been trying to figure that out for years now
gotta wonder about those folks....
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Our brains have been contaminated by toxic waste from superfund sites.
I thought you already knew that, asshole.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Um for a kansan, thats a good comeback.
touche I guess, or whatever they say in Kansas.

Good luck with that toxic superfund site by the way.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
14. OK, I can't speak for Kansans
But I can talk about Nebraskans, since I just spent 10 days there. They are naive but they are starting to get it with bushco.

They don't really have any depth in foreign policy. They are somewhat simpleminded in their approach to politics ("Well, just how would YOU handle terrorism?")

They haven't a clue about the World Bank or the IMF. They have little alternative media that can give them any clue.

All is not lost there but I must say, I was astounded at how naive, uninformed and apathetic they are to our foreign policy and its perpetrators.

Quite frankly, if harm comes to us because of our abominable foreign policy and our ignorant citizenry, "Kansans" will be a big part of the guilty party because of their phenomenal ignorance.

And yes, NJ residents are ignorant but not to such a high degree.


Cher

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I Know How To Do it Donating Member (499 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. It isn't just Nebraskans
"They don't really have any depth in foreign policy. They are somewhat simpleminded in their approach to politics ("Well, just how would YOU handle terrorism?")"

All Bush supporters say that no matter where they live.

A lot of the people in the Midwest are fiercely independant probably stemming from the deeply agrarian roots of farmers and ranchers that lived in relative isolation. The leave me the hell alone and let me do my job attitude. However it isn't so much like that anymore. 70% of Nebraska lives in about a 60 mile radius. The midwest thinks that the Republican party stands for small Government and a laissez faire approach to States Rights. Well that's what's they're told over and over and over. Problem is, the Republican party is just the opposite.
It's now in the hands of People of the Midwest to wake up and realize they are being duped and exploited by the Current version of the Republican party.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. I was in Nebraska recently too
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 03:51 PM by proud2Blib
They were fighting about water and every TV I passed by had Faux News tuned in.

I am from Kansas and the naivety in Nebraska stunned me.
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mosin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kansans and Oklahomans
Growing up in Texas, we often wondered what was wrong with Kansans.

Of course, we asked that about Oklahomans even more often. :)
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. See signature line:
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wow. Never knew there were so many ignorant DU'ers.
Frankly, it's sad.

And Mooch...you may want to to actually read or watch an interview with Thomas Frank - who is from Kansas.

But, whatever. I guess I'll just hop back on my tractor and get back to church.

Where do you live Mooch?
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I have the book, it was a joke thread
I've read the book, its not particularly flattering or insulting to people from kansas. It describes exactly how people vote against their own interests like they do everywhere.

and to continue the regionalism...

My region is better than your region!! that applies to everyone reading this. I call your region out for a fight at 3:30 pm behind the school gym.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Agreed.
Just seems like you are picking on Kansas and Kansans. Didn't really feel like a joke.

Like most natives, this Kansan has some pride. The history of this state is one of being progressive. I can't stand those fucks that are embarrassing us. Believe me, people like Proud2BLib, Muse Rider and plenty of others are working hard to take our state back.

And don't get me wrong. I make fun of Kansas. But it's a little bit like if you were a teenager hanging out with your friends and your mom was hassling you and you said "Man, my mom's being a real bitch." It's quite another when your mom is hassling you and your friend says "Man, your mom's a real bitch." Said friend is probably gonna get punched in the face. You dig?

Having said all that....peace?
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Progressive hotbed back during the first robber barons
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 05:06 PM by Moochy
I read that section about the early progressives in Kansas with alot of interest. Sorry to come off as a rude mofo, that was my point.

I think that pride in a region in general is not productive. I mean I like the fact that my region has no climatic variation and I choose to live here, but I'm not proud of the Bay Area per se. Theres an equal distribution of assholes, in fact, we have more democratic assholes here in California, per capita, and probably in total! They voted for Arnold too, so, I'm not proclaiming any regional superiority. I'm just being sloppy and trying to poke fun at thin skinned stateists. Yeah I'm talking to you North Dakotans, you know what you did!

Ok I better stop now. :p

(edited for general language mangling)
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. peace!
Peace for sure :)

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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Oooohh....I see. California.
Funny thing about California. I lived there. Small town in the North. Some of the most ignorant, uneducated people I have ever come across in my life. I found it totally amusing that they teased me for being a "hick" when I graduated with more people in my high school class than lived in the entire town. I had never listened to country music - until I moved to California (and still avoid it at all cost).

Be careful generalizing. Based on my experiences in California, you would think the whole state would be comprised of uneducated, single parents fighting drug addictions.

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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Yeah my state of California would beat up your state of Kansas
Exactly! People make whatever area around them into their own personal space. Ive known plenty of right wing and left wing jerks here and just about everywhere.

And the original post about kansas superfund sites was an attempt to explain in satire why ONE KANSAN, FRED PHELPS, was crazy and generally a mutant form of life. It obviously was misread as a shot across the bow from me, the unelected front-man for California at the Kansas masses.

RAWR!

anyways.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Fred is a mutant. And just about the lowest form of human.
Most sane, science supporting, pro-privacy Kansans would love to take a crack at that arsehole. But, I'm not sure who is more of an embarassment - Fred or Connie Morris (Ms. Creationism). We can't do anything about Fred, but you better bet your sweet ass we are going to put together a mass movement against Connie come re-election time. Believe dat.

And since you are from the Bay area (which I truly love by the way) and are the unofficial spokesperson for Cali and I will lay claim to being the unofficial spokesperson from Kansas, I suggest we meet back here for a duel around the KU vs Cal game on Dec. 10th. We'll just have to settle this argument of which region is superior the good old fashioned way - we'll have to let our basketball teams decide once and for all.

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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Rural Californian "hicks"
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 05:07 PM by Moochy
Whats funny about this, is that alot of California is rural and many speakers even have many speech aspects of their parents and grandparents who settled the region. There are small pockets of linguistic isolates that dont conform, and much of rural california's communities are this way.
from Do you Speak American? http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/californian/

Ways of speaking are the outcome of stylistic activities that people engage in collaboratively as they carve out a distinctive place for themselves in the social landscape. In fact, linguistic style is inseparable from clothing style, hair style, and lifestyle. No style is made from scratch, but is built on the creative use of elements from other styles, and California’s rich diversity makes the state a goldmine of stylistic activity.


Regarding, uneducated single parents fighting drug addictions, its bad here in urban CA. Though we can dither about higher rates per capita, since I've read reports that speed use was way up in the midwest, around 2000.




Fred Phelps
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Actually, if you want to go "pound for pound" on meth addicts
this area is definitely going to lose! I do believe that Independence, MO (another KC suburb, just on the MO side) is the meth capitol of the Universe.

Really the bottom line is rural vs urban. I live in Kansas, but not in a rural area. The few times I actually venture out in the state, I make fun of them with the best of 'em.

Rural Kansas and rural California really aren't that different, other than linguistics as you said. Either way, our battle is rural vs urban. Simple as that!
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Interesting answer from 1896
From A Vassar College Website: http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/whatsthematter.html
What's the Matter with Kansas?

William Allen White

Emporia Gazette, 15 August 1896


Reprinted courtesy the
Kansas State Historical Society Website


Today the Kansas Department of Agriculture sent out a statement which indicates that Kansas has gained less than two thousand people in the past year. There are about two hundred and twenty-five thousand families in his state, and there were ten thousand babies born in Kansas, and yet so many people have left the state that the natural increase is cut down to less than two thousand net.

This has been going on for eight years.

If there had been a high brick wall around the state eight years ago, and not a soul had been admitted or permitted to leave, Kansas would be a half million souls better off than she is today. and yet the nation has increased in population. In five years ten million people have been added to the national population, yet instead of gaining a share of this say, half a million -- Kansas has apparently been a plague spot, and, in the very garden of the world, has lost population by ten thousands every year.

Not only has she lost population, but she has lost money Every moneyed man in the state who could get out without loss has gone. Every month in every community sees someone who has a little money pack up and leave the state. This has been going on for eight years. Money has been drained out all the time. In towns where ten years ago there were three or four or half dozen money-lending concerns, stimulating industry by furnishing capital, there is now none, or one or two that are looking after the interests and principal already outstanding.

No one brings any money into Kansas any more. What community knows over one or two men who have moved in with more than $5,000 in the past three years? And what community cannot count half a score of men in that time who have left, taking all the money they could scrape together?

Yet the nation has grown rich; other states have increased in population and wealth -- other neighboring states. Missouri has gained over two million, while Kansas has been losing half a million. Nebraska has gained in wealth and population while Kansas has gone downhill. Colorado has gained every way, while Kansas has lost every way since 1888.

What's the matter with Kansas?

There is no substantial city in the state. Every big town save one has lost in population. Yet Kansas City, Omaha, Lincoln, St. Louis, Denver, Colorado Springs, Sedalia, the cities of the Dakotas, St. Paul and Minneapolis and Des Moines all cities and towns in the West -- have steadily grown.

Take up the government blue book and you will see that Kansas is virtually off the map. Two or three little scrubby consular places in yellow-fever-stricken communities that do not aggregate ten thousand dollars a year is all the recognition that Kansas has. Nebraska draws about one hundred thousand dollars; little old North Dakota draws about fifty thousand dollars; Oklahoma doubles Kansas; Missouri leaves her a thousand miles behind; Colorado is almost seven times greater than Kansas -- the whole west is ahead of Kansas.

Take it by any standard you please, Kansas is not in it.

Go east and you hear them laugh at Kansas; go west and they sneer at her; go south and they cuss" her; go north and they have forgotten her. Go into any crowd of intelligent people gathered anywhere on the globe, and you will find the Kansas man on the defensive. The newspaper columns and magazines once devoted to praise of her, to boastful facts and startling figures concerning her resources, are now filled with cartoons, jibes and Pefferian speeches. Kansas just naturally isn't in it. She has traded places with Arkansas and Timbuctoo.





What's the matter with Kansas?

We all know; yet here we are at it again. We have an old mossback Jacksonian who snorts and howls because there is a bathtub in the State House; we are running that old jay for governor. We have another shabby, wild-eyed, rattle-brained fanatic who has said openly in a dozen speeches that "the rights of the user are paramount to the rights of the owner"; we are running him for Chief Justice, so that capital will come tumbling over itself to get into the state. We have raked the old ash heap of failure in the state and found an old human hoop skirt who has failed as a businessman, who has failed as an editor, who has failed as a preacher, and we are going to run him for Congressman-at-Large. He will help the looks of the Kansas delegation at Washington. Then we have discovered a kid without a law practice and have decided to run him for Attorney General. Then, for fear some hint that the state had become respectable might percolate through the civilized portions of the nation, we have decided to send three or four harpies out lecturing, telling the people that Kansas is raising hell and letting the corn go to weed.

Oh this IS a state to be proud of! We are a people who can hold up our heads! What we need is not more money, but less capital, fewer white shirts and brains, fewer men with business judgment, and more of those fellows who boast that they are "just ordinary clodhoppers, but they know more in a minute about finance than John Sherman; we need more men who are posted," who can bellow about the crime of '73, who hate prosperity, and who think, because a man believes in national honor, he is a tool of Wall Street. We have had a few of them some hundred fifty thousand -- but we need more.

We need several thousand gibbering idiots to scream about the "Great Red Dragon" of Lombard Street. We don't need population, we don't need wealth, we don't need well-dressed men on the streets, we don't need cities on the fertile prairies; you bet we don't! What we are after is the money power. Because we have become poorer and ornerier and meaner than a spavined, distempered mule, we, the people of Kansas, propose to kick; we don't care to build up, we wish to tear down. "There are two ideas of government," said our noble Bryan at Chicago. "There are those who believe that if you legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, this prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up and through every class and rest upon them."

That's the stuff! Give the prosperous man the dickens! Legislate the thriftless man into ease, whack the stuffing out of the creditors and tell the debtors who borrowed the money five years go when money "per capita" was greater than it is now, that the contraction of currency gives him a right to repudiate.

Whoop it up for the ragged trousers; put the lazy, greasy fizzle, who can't pay his debts, on the altar, and bow down and worship him. Let the state ideal be high. What we need is not the respect of our fellow men but the chance to get something for nothing.

Oh, yes, Kansas is a great state. Here are people fleeing from it by the score every day, capital going out of the state by the hundreds of dollars; and every industry but farming paralyzed, and that crippled, because its products have to go across the ocean before they can find a laboring man at work; who can afford to buy them. Let's don't stop this year. Let's drive all the decent self- respecting men out of the state. Let's keep the old clodhoppers who know it all. Let's encourage the man who is "posted." He can talk, and what we need is not mill hands to eat our meat, nor factory hands to eat our wheat, nor cities to oppress the farmer by consuming his butter and eggs and chickens and produce. What Kansas needs is men who can talk, who have large leisure to argue the currency question while their wives wait at home for that nickel's worth of bluing.

What's the matter with Kansas?

Nothing under the shining sun. She is losing her wealth, population and standing. She has got her statesmen, and the money power is afraid of her. Kansas is all right. She has started in to raise hell, as Mrs. Lease advised, and she seems to have an over-production. But that doesn't matter. Kansas never did believe in diversified crops. Kansas is all right. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Kansas. "Every prospect pleases and only man is vile."
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. It's the Lounge, it's a joke. And I am a Kansan by birth and at heart. nt
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Blonde, check my post "agreed."
Guess my humor meter was a little off yesterday.

PMS and a bad day at work = little sense of humor.

My apologies for being a stick in the mud.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. I share Thomas Franks' hometown
It is a strong, long time Republican community. And Franks has received a lot of favorable publicity here. The community seems proud of him. I have honestly read no criticism of him or his book in any local publications.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. I have yet to read the book, but am curious what town that is.
I was born in Winfield and have relatives, well, EVERYWHERE in Kansas!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Prairie Village
a suburb of KC.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
37. I know of about 150 that are die-hard yella dawgs spread throughout
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 05:17 PM by blondeatlast
Winfield, Ottawa, and Wichita. For those Kansans who remember, Harrington TV and Appliance was owned by my uncle, a die hard Democrat (still living, just retired).

Most of them share my blood and would rather cut off an arm than vote Republican--we'd have ancestors on both sides of the family spiining in their graves if we even considered voting R.

Edit: Damn new keyboard!
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. i went to grad school at KU and personally i blame
that lying piece of shit roy williams!
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Amen brother.
Somebody had to say it.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. whats wrong with it? it don't have no mountains or beaches.
folks got to climb mountains and breath fresh mountain air, it clears the head. and folks got to soak their gonads and stuff in the salt water of the ocean. its soothes the soul.

no mountains or beaches? it gives you fuzzy headed folk with the jitters 'bout things.

thems kansans right there.
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