Why do humans SUCK so fucking much?

[matcom]

:grr:

LONG time web client. Hell, they have been with me for over 5 years.

5 years of updating their web site. each and every month. updates, changes, additions, design, redesign, etc.. etc.. etc..

made their monthly updates today and posted them (as always). go out to their site to make sure the changes posted ok (as i always have) and viola! new web site.

:wtf:

make first call to my contact. she has no idea what i'm talking about. i tell HER to look at their site. :wtf:

call the director. told yes, we switched our web host and had the site redesigned at the beginning of the month. :wft:

her son's friend (out in Colorado) is starting a web design company and she decided to use him. oooookkkkkkkkk (that's cool as they are a non-profit and we aren't talking about a lot of monthly $$ here)

i ask why she didn't contact me to help with the transistion (happens all the time). her son's friend told her that web designers are "notorious" for not allowing domain transfers. that 'we' (I) would make the process extremely difficult and could down right REFUSE to transfer her domain. HHHHEEEELLLLOOOOOOO i don't OWN your fucking domain! :grr:

i ask her why all of a sudden, after ALL these years of my help, advice, etc... that suddenly she wouldn't trust me with her domain transfer. was she not happy with my work? no, she said. did i do something wrong? (miss an update, etc...), no. why then, did she feel like she was right to go behind my back and sneak off?

silence.

then i lit into her and told her while she had every right to do what she wanted with her site, a COURTESY call was the fucking HUMAN thing to do so I could move space off of MY server once the transfer took place.

FURTHER told her that i hoped she was happy with such a dishonest web designer now, friend or not for feeding her a pack of bullshit. :grr:

i don't know who i am more pissed at: the web developer who ASSUMED we are all apparently like him and LIED about it, or HER for throwing away 5+ years of a GREAT business relationship.

:argh: HUMAN.BEINGS.SUCK.ASS. :argh:

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. Thanks. Alot. Nice Generalization there Bubba.

:eyes:


:P


Sorry your day was crappy.

[northzax]

2. he just assumed you would act the way he would

I guess. strange stuff there.

[MissB]

3. Some humans suck ass.

There is very little loyalty in business anymore.

[leftofthedial]

4. look on the bright side

at least we work hard at SUCKING and we're good at it

[Itascapark]

5. Sorry man,

that definitely sucks...personal, I'd be steamed at the punk who spun the lies.:mad:

[BikeWriter]

6. Great rant!

[jobycom]

7. C'mon, man, some of my best friends are human beings

I even dated a human being. Cut 'em some slack!

She probably just saw your yellow butt and was afraid she couldn't control her emotions if she spoke to you.

BTW, did you see the post where someone asked if we were married, cause of the same last names and all?

[Spinzonner]

8. Nursing reflex

Essential to survival.

[bloom]

21. That's what I was thinking

:hi:

[kedrys]

9. I had a client do that a couple of months ago

To this day, I have no idea why they got someone else. They paid me and everything, but both the designer (an old friend of theirs) and I were cut out of the deal with absolutely no notice whatsoever.

I hate it when they do that. :grr:

[usedtobesick]

10. I live in Colorado

want me to go make a visit? You got friends in low places...



:smoke:

[GCP]

11. Fuck 'em, Mat

Just. Fuck. 'Em.

[skygazer]

12. People are weird

They do weird things. That's weird. And unprofessional. And a lousy way to do business.

It's like they'd rather sneak around than be honest with you. And why? The level of distrust is rather sad.

Totally different but another example of weirdness in the human race - I work retail and I've been noticing that people avoid saying "excuse me." I'll be working on an aisle with a loaded dolly and instead of saying "excuse me", they'll just try to squeeze through a spot they're really not going to squeeze through. Of course, as soon as I notice them, I'll say "excuse me" and get out of the way but I don't understand why they can't politely say it themselves. I think they think they're going to bother me but it bothers me more to be run over from behind than it does to have someone politely excuse themselves. I don't know - it just seems strange. Like they expect a confrontation if they make the perfectly rational request for me let them by.

[CBHagman]

60. People just walk right into you here in DC.

I've noticed that some people will walk right into a pedestrian rather than step around him/her. There are times when I'm waiting for a train or a bus and people just walk into me, or stop in front of me and wait for me to move out of their way, as though the only way forward was through the few inches of ground I am standing on. I kid you not.

The strangest of all was the guy on Connecticut Avenue a few Sundays back. I had stopped outside a business and was jotting down the address. Right in the middle of this broad, empty sidewalk, this guy walks straight into me -- no effort to step around, no words of explanation or excuse. As I said, the sidewalk itself is very wide and there were no people on either side of us. I don't know whether it's lack of concentration, an aggression game, or what.

[progmom]

13. that sucks ass. i'm sorry.

x(

[GalleryGod]

14. Sorry, Mat. We get the same BS when a faculty member "disappears"

over Summer Recess.....:wtf: Then people CYA'ing start whispering campaigns that Rove would be proud of !

Sounds like you went to the wall for these folks..and in contemporary business, 5 years is a damned LIFETIME...of all of the crazy, zany posts of yours, these past 4 years...this is the one,a serious one, I could really "hear" your voice and frustration.

Sorry,again. Better Days.:toast:

[youspeakmylanguage]

15. No offense...

...but she was right to worry about the domain transfer. I know firsthand of instances where disgruntled commercial web developers either held a domain hostage or sold the domain out from under the owner to a squatter/auctioner. One of my friends, a small business owner, had this happen to him with a webmaster he had used for 6+ years. It's very hard to resolve those situations, especially if the person doesn't understand the technical details of domain ownership/transfer.

Like it or not, due to some bad apples commercial web developers have developed a bad reputation in this area.

It still sucked the way she handled it, though. I'm not defending her, don't get me wrong, but she did have a right to worry.

[matcom]

18. every one of my contracts STATE

that all work done by me is THEIR property. NOT mine. it also states that THEY are the owners of THEIR domain and registered to THEM. i take GREAT pains to ensure this.

[youspeakmylanguage]

25. I understand this...

...and I'm not insinuating anything about you or your company. The point I'm making is that you have to accept that if one of your clients discusses your service with a third-party (such as this guy in Colorado) and doesn't disclose that you don't own or control their domain, then that guy said the same thing I would say (AGAIN not knowing the details): That sometimes commercial web developers do hold domains hostage.

The difference is I would have suggested to them that they find out the details about their domain registration before doing anything drastic or canceling the service without notifying you. That was wrong. He probably now has their domain registered in his name and HE'LL probably be the one to screw them over down the line. So at least take comfort in that possibility - there may be consequences for their stupidity.

But my long-winded point is there is no reason to be pissed about the reputation that commercial web developers have involving highjacked domains because it is a reputation that is somewhat warranted. Like I said, I know that firsthand.

For the record, I'm not a commercial webmaster or developer myself, but I do offer advice and consult on disability compliance and web standards.

[Xithras]

38. Yep, and I know one developer who lost his HOUSE trying that.

The guy had a small web design firm and got pissed when a client switched without much notice. He decided to play hardball with their domain and sold it on the second-hand market. The client sued for lost sales, won more than $100,000 in damages, and ended up forcing the developer to sell his HOUSE to cover the debt.

IMO, he got what he deserved.

[sandnsea]

63. Yeah, and maybe those businesses hadn't paid their bill

I've only gotten pissy on a domain once, and that was when a client kept telling us about their financial difficulties and we carried their web site for nearly a year. Then they moved it and never paid their bill. So sometimes there's more to those stories than what you're being led to believe.

[youspeakmylanguage]

66. With the cases I know of personally...

...it was complete vindictiveness on the part of the web developers. All bills were paid in full. I can't speak for anyone else.

Court is the place to settle disputes over unpaid bills. Holding a domain hostage, even when the client owes you money, is a quick way to get your ass sued off. See post#38.

[sandnsea]

67. Leverage works

Court takes more money than it's worth. Been fucked over too many times in my life. I don't hold domains hostage, dragging out the transfer until I get paid what they owe me is a different story.

[youspeakmylanguage]

70. Who said this was about you?

We're discussing a stigma that hangs over the heads of all business web developers - a stigma that apparently has some weight.

Dragging out a transfer beyond a reasonable amount of time is holding a domain hostage. It's not up to you to determine the proper channel for addressing your grievance, it's up to the government. The government has set up a legal system. Take advantage of it, or don't be suprised if someone else uses it to ruin your business.

[sandnsea]

71. You responded to me, doh

"a reasonable amount of time" Exactly what I said, not holding it hostage or selling it out from under somebody. On one domain. If somebody sold somebody else's domain, I tend to believe it's because they'd been screwed over by the domain holder. I've never had somebody refuse to transfer a domain to my server. It's my experience that the business owners are alot more shady in this area than the web hosts.

[youspeakmylanguage]

72. These were your exact words...

I don't hold domains hostage, dragging out the transfer until I get paid what they owe me is a different story.

So everytimg you've pulled this stunt, you've been paid within a "reasonable amount of time"? What if someone didn't pay you within a reasonable amount of time?

[sandnsea]

73. I also said

I don't hold domains hostage, which is an answer in itself, if you cared to read the whole of what I said instead of defending what I'm now concluding must be deadbeat friends. And, I said, I've really only had to get tough once. The couple of other people that this has happened with recognized the need to pay their bills. It's actually not that big of an issue, 99% of people aren't shitheads.

[youspeakmylanguage]

74. Conclude all you want...

...but anyone who anonymously chooses to insult my friends is someone I choose to no longer correspond with.

They're your words - stating a fact, then making a conflicting statement and then demanding people only read the conflicting statement is ridiculous.

Peace :hi:

[sandnsea]

75. Mechanics hold cars hostage?

No. You don't pay, you don't get your car. It shouldn't be any different for people who don't pay their hosting bill, the only reason it is is because people like me generally don't make an issue of it. Because it's really not worth it.

[sandnsea]

68. Oh, and so's they told you

Nobody ever lies about paying their bills, nah, that never happens.

[youspeakmylanguage]

69. Let's see - these are friends of mine I've known for years...

...who can easily afford whatever their webmaster was charging and you're someone posting online with an overdose of snark.

*sigh* Who shall I believe? :eyes:

[Submariner]

16. That's why I work with animals..........no deceit involved

[matcom]

17. do animals need web development?

huh??? huh????

[kmla]

23. Just spiders.

Bwahahahahahaha!

*Ducks as brickbat is thrown by Matcom at kmla's head*

Owwwww!

Sorry.

Won't happen again.

[friesianrider]

20. Absolutely my answer. I'd take a decent animal...

Over an exceptional human being anyday.

[friesianrider]

19. Indeed they do.

And most human beings are much worse than that, sadly.

[redqueen]

22. Awww...

:(

Yeah, that's just wrong. Sorry you got treated like that, friend.

:pals:


on edit: to you designers out there... consider putting a clause in your agreement contract stipulating 30 days notice or a fine. That'll hopefully prevent most future similar suckitude.

[grace0418]

28. I'm a designer and, I swear, if I put a clause in my contracts to

protect against all the shitty things people do, each contract would be an inch thick. Every time you learn from one shitty experience with a client, somebody pulls some new shit on you.

The advent of the personal computer was the worse thing to happen to designers. Now everyone thinks they're designers and everyone thinks everything magically gets designed at the touch of a button. So they think they know more about design than you do and they don't think they have to pay you for your time.

[NV Whino]

31. And that, Grace, is why

I got out of the design business. You can do it better than I can? Then go for it. I make a lot less money now, but I'm a lot happier.

[grace0418]

35. I hear ya. Thinking about it too but don't know what I

want to do. I mean, I want to have a huge studio and make art all day but that's not gonna pay the mortgage.

[NV Whino]

41. I fell into another totally different line of work

just by accident at the time I really burned out on graphics. I now manage and caretake property in the Napa Valley. Amazing how all those organizational skills from graphics fit right in. Also, as a courtesy, I have designed wine and olive oil lables for my clients. I charge my caretaking rate rather than my graphics rate and generally I have fun. I do pick up a few graphics jobs, but I'm very picky these days about who I take on. If I can't have fun, I don't do it. This job also allows me to paint, although in the Bush economy I haven't sold anything and consequently have slowed down on the painting.

[grace0418]

45. Napa Valley! Oh that sounds lovely.

It has been my dream for years to move to Northern California. People on DU have probably heard me whine about it. That's great it worked out for you. Hopefully, someday...

[no name no slogan]

49. That's precisely why i quit being self-employed

I now do web stuff for a gubmint agency, for the exact same reasons you said. I was sick of getting screwed over and not getting paid for my time. Plus I'm an awful businessperson, and spent more time dealing with that stuff than I did building sites and web applications.

:(

[grace0418]

57. Yeah, it's a real dilema.

I can work for an agency (or, in my current situation, at a publishing company) and not have to deal with the business stuff and client crap. But the work is mind-numbingly boring and I have zero creative control. Or I can work for myself, have a bit more creative control, but have to deal with clients.

I would love to get a job at Chronicle Books in SF. Everything they do is so cool and completely in line with my design aesthetic. I've heard they're a fun but competitive company to work for because they're so cool. Of course, my husband would have to then try to get an IT job in the area (HA) and we'd have to try to afford housing (HA HA). I also really love Knock Knock, but my friend was offered a job there and it's a pretty small company so the money wasn't great.

[arwalden]

24. alt.binaries.erotica. human.beings.suck.ass

[Dave Reynolds]

26. I have NEVER sucked ass.

Other things, but never ass.

[lpbk2713]

27. Obviously this punk was a hobbyist and not a professional.

If he (and for that matter, she) knew anything about business ethics they would not have handled it that way. Just give them a little time and the way he does things will rub the client the wrong way. When they come back to you charge them double. Tell them your overhead has gone up.

[NV Whino]

29. Now you have to decide

if you are going to take back the client when the other designer fucks up the site and/or doesn't perform.

[matcom]

32. nope

outta here

[NV Whino]

42. Good move.

[sandnsea]

61. They're too embarrassed to come back

Seen it too many times. They will literally stick with a horrible web site and be lost on the web, rather than swallow their pride and come back.

[gmoney]

30. You gonna post the punk's domain?

So we can swamp his server with requests and shut him down?

"Gee, Ms. Former Client, seems like the new guy doesn't REALLY know what he's doing."

[matcom]

34. nope

would NEVER do that. they are non-profit and do great work in the community

[youspeakmylanguage]

50. ...not to mention the fact that it's illegal to call for...

...a Denial of Service attack.

I wish Skinner would post a notice about advocating DoS attacks. It's very illegal and if DUers were to actually follow-through, it would be a disaster for the site and it's reputation.

[Parche]

33. human beings

Try working in the Travel business!!!!
Then you would pull your Matcom hair out

[Floogeldy]

36. That was a totally immature, emotional, and unprofessional reaction.

If the new guy doesn't work out, guess who they WON'T be calling?

[Rhiannon12866]

37. Because they have free will.

But I honestly am sorry. This really does absolutely suck.:-(

[Xithras]

39. This is why my clients are all on fixed-length contracts.

You want my companies services? You're going to sign a contract for between 6 and 36 months of service (rates drop as the contract length increases). My customers are free to walk if they want, but I've got a lawyer on retainer in case they try to skip out on that contract.

The biggest advantage to this business model is that it's rather cumbersome for people to switch to other providers...they have to get the timing just right or they're paying two companies for the same job. Few clients bother, so I have a contract renewal rate that's above 80% (keep in mind that we're a very small company, so we're only talking a few dozen clients).

Oh, you might also want to consider explaining your business philosophies to your clients. When we sign a new customer, we provide them with a 12 point "Client Bill of Rights". Point #2 on that list says that everything we create for the client is their property, and they have a right to all source materials on request (it's actually a little longer than that, but that's the basic gist of it).

[Wetzelbill]

40. Damn Matcom

That sucks. Sorry you didn't get treated better after all that work you did. You know that other rat just has to be a Republican. :)

Seriously though, I'm sure you're good at what you do and you have plenty of clients who respect that.

[seemunkee]

43. I understand, crappy customers made me close my business

I built custom furniture for 15 years. Seven running my own shop. I was working with a client building an entertainment unit. Unique design that I worked out with her. She asks me for a coffee table for the same room. I worked on the design, choosing colors, did a drawing, provided samples and pricing.
When I go to deliver the entertainment unit there is the table sitting in the room exactly as I designed. All dimensions and color were exact. The bitch took my work and shopped it around to find someone cheaper.
She had even referred me to a friend, who treated my like crap.
After I installed the entertainment unit I went back to my shop called her friend and told her I was not interested in working with her. As soon as I got off the phone I started calling computer training companies to change careers.

[youspeakmylanguage]

53. You should have charged her with a copyright violation...

...not sure what the legal details would be, though. Can you copyright a furniture design?

[seemunkee]

56. I could have

Design copyrights are very easy to get around, but in this case they didn't alter a thing. I was just fed up at that point.

[youspeakmylanguage]

65. I know hindsight is 20/20, but it would have been the perfect time...

...since you were leaving the business, you wouldn't have to worry about the negative press that such a case would bring. Most business owners don't pursue cases like that because they're afraid of alienating the local public. You could have gone out with a bang at her expense.

[Midlodemocrat]

44. Wow that sucks.

Well, if it is any consolation, matcom, I work in the non profit sector and an awful lot of my clients, while doing great things in the community, are assholes.

[youspeakmylanguage]

51. A lot of us progressives are as*holes...

Just because our politics and heart may be in the right place doesn't mean our personality or ethics always are.

[Susang]

46. That suck

You should try food service. It only gets worse. ;-)

Seriously, there are just as many great people as shitty ones, unfortunately the assholes seem to be the only ones who stick out in our minds. Similar to how we just don't think about all the things that go right in our day, but fixate on the one or two things that don't. That's human nature.

I think most people do the best they can.

[Flaxbee]

47. I just had my own "humans suck!" experience this morning...

...someone we've been talking to about investing in a building for us -- he'd own the building, and we'd buy it back from him over time (or all at once at the end of the 2nd year) sat on our financials for three weeks and then left a message on my cell phone that "the investment was too risky, I am not interested."

OK, this guy doesn't even ask us questions about the financials? Doesn't even discuss his concerns, just assumes stuff about our business and leaves a message on the CELL PHONE? And I honest to god do not understand what is so risky about buying a property in a good location, holding it in your own name (while the business owners pay you rent)! He would have had a 6000 sq ft commercial asset for his money, which isn't really risky at all.

And we sell security equipment to the Marines, for god's sake! What the f**k is so risky about that?!?!?!!! All we needed was a building - an actual R&D center - to get the contracts finalized (the Marines can't work with mom-and-pop organizations anymore unless there is a solid storefront; we used to do contracts out of our home office but the new regs forbid that).

Anyway, this isn't my thread or my story, but I am just so pissed off I am tempted to call this guy and tell him he's a world-class dick. I won't, but it sure would make me feel better.

That's a long way of saying, I commiserate with thee, matcom.

[Phentex]

48. well, I'm sorry but

that TRULY sucks!

I'm sorry. :(

[hfojvt]

52. there must be 50 ways to leave your web designer

you just slip out the back, Jack
make a new plan, Stan
don't need to be coy, Roy,
just get yourself free ...

Hey, breaking up is hard to do. You never know how somebody will react to the news. You also never know is a good relationship, which is based on sending a regular check, is going to survive the cessation of said payments. Especially when you are dealing with somebody who has god-like computer powers. It is safer to sneak off before they can :nuke: you. People are scared, and cautious, because you never know when or why somebody is going to light into you. :scared:

[Rabrrrrrr]

54. If you're lucky, she'll invite to her wedding and/or show you the video

and make it up to you.

:rofl:

(insert string of disallowed gender-specific insults and profanities against that woman here, in total sympathy with matcom)

[blindpig]

55. Because they're not dogs.

"Animals don't hire lawyers." HST

[Hugin]

58. Cockroaches... OTOH... Have many redeeming qualities.

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

59. Straws

I blame it all on the creation of straws.

I'm sorry for the crap you're dealing with, some people really do suck.

[rug]

62. Is this day 2 of no smokes?

[Greyhound]

64. Don't know, but it is getting worse. n/t