Reminder: IF you're an asshole, and a DUer is in pain, put a sock in it

[Bossy Monkey]

If somebody posts that they're considering suicide, do not post, "Hey dude, just get high!" Used to see this dozens of times before mods got quicker about locking such threads with the Call the help-line message.

Similarly, if someone posts in pain, but in a less dire situation, this goes doubly since such threads aren't going to get locked. If someone asks you for prayers, white light, good vibes, warm thoughts or otherwise, either give them what they ask for or keep your advice to yourself. Again, recommendation of drinking or smoking as a response to a life crisis is never helpful nor a good idea.

If someone is mulling bankruptcy, believe it or not, the "Life sucks and then you die" type response is NOT conspicuously helpful. If you can't manage something at least sympathetic, maybe the ever-popular option of shutting the fuck up might be preferable instead.

If you're posting while intoxicated, cut it out. Failing that, don't click on any thread where somebody is asking for help. Your judgment isn't likely to be at its best when you're either wasted or baked.

Forgive the rant; 90% of you don't deserve it and can go about your DUery normally. The 10% who do are so clueless, I'm afraid, that this is going to sail right over your heads. Just try to find a little compassion inside yourselves is all I ask. Hell, you're on DU; it's gotta be in there somewhere.

[ET Awful]

1. Can I add something to this?

If someone asks for help with something specific such as "my PC is doing X", responses such as "buy a Mac" are not helpful. If someone complains of their loud neighbor in the apartment next door answers like "buy a house" aren't helpful.

If you can't give a realistic helpful answer, don't give one at all.

Your rant is welcome and is very much on point, I agree 100%.

[kick-ass-bob]

10. ohh...

get a Mac.


:rofl:

[ET Awful]

12. Blow me

:evilgrin:

[Deja Q]

15. Oh good grief...

I've heard of spreading seed, but this is ridiculous!

:wow:

[ET Awful]

17. hehehe, at least they're seeds of dissent

:evilgrin:

[Kurovski]

40. Which are also seeds of change.

[derby378]

18. Thank you!

Same goes for specific software programs, as in: "Want help with Microsoft FrontPage? Suuuure...delete it and buy a copy of Dreamweaver!" Yeah, that's a lot of help. Maybe when my next paycheck comes in I can buy a copy, but how can this advice help me right here, right now???

[trogdor]

23. Or learn HTML and do it without FrontPage's help.

There's a reason you get responses like this, and that's because Microsoft's software is horrible. FrontPage is horrible, Outlook is horrible, Exploder is horrible, and it goes on and on. That's just the way it is.

Fortunately, you don't have to buy a damn thing. Just go to mozilla.com and download the web toolz you require.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kick-ass-bob]

28. .

:rofl:

[derby378]

29. Go d/l those k00l w4r3z I showed u...

...and u will be teh roXXorz!!

OK, enough of that. Excellent response.

[Montauk6]

76. The worst is "Get Linux"

[dajoki]

46. i agree with you and undisclosedlocation 100%

but sometimes a little levity helps. i have health and money problems right now, and my wife just lost her job, so we are struggling to say the least. but sometimes laughter is the best medicine. but if help is asked for, help shoud try to be given.:shrug:

[khashka]

71. Sorry ETA, my friend, but

"buy a Mac" is excellent advice and way helpful.

I know they're expensive but you get what you pay for.

Khash.

[Dhalgren]

2. Excellent and needed post! Thank you!

[vi5]

3. I can honestly say I've never read anything like that...

..maybe I just don't read those threads to begin with because I realize based off of the title that I couldn't be helpful in anyway or that the person is just blowing off steam.

[Left_Winger]

4. Right on !!!

[Wetzelbill]

5. I agree

but this guy here only has 408 posts, so I can't take him serious until he's at least around 2000. :)

[Left_Winger]

7. OK, let's make that 409...

Howdy Bill.

:hi:

[Wetzelbill]

8. g'morning

I'm just about to check over your PM, actually.

[Burried News]

13. I know what you mean - Catapault the truth - over the wall.

You never know which seed will grow.

[sweetheart]

6. nothing

No. I don't take orders. I don't work for you. I don't agree to
anything, this is free speech, and i will not be beholden to some
general rule.

I am free. Part of freedom is the freedom to make errors, to speak
wrongly, to be unforgiveable. To be an asshole. We suffer on this
earth, all of us, and then we die. You can re-brand the suffering under
whatever banner of nostalgia, but suffering it remains.

Would you feel different, if, without you saying that, nobody was ever
offensive, ever again. Would it really change anything for you
to change your state of mind, to presume us all innocent of said
nightmare crime of faux pas.

We live in a 24x7 world, and 6 billion private lives are buzzing along
in private samsara, and this internet board is a domain where truth can
be our only true friend. And the truth, is that each moment dictates
its own truth, that there are no global rules. Sometimes, the way to
deal with pain is a greater pain, for a second, like having your shoulder
popped back in when its been disjointed.

People indulge in pain and selfishness in this world, and to make it
a sacred cow is no help. Surely each case is its unique, and i
agree with your sentiments, just not the authoritarian results.

[lukasahero]

9. "the freedom...To be an asshole"

Now there's something to aspire to. :eyes:

Hey undisclosedlocation - good on you! Thanks for the words of common sense and simple decency.

[IdaBriggs]

11. Good manners versus Bad manners -- who can argue a right to be

obnoxious? Then again, who wants to be around people like that? Ignore good advice if you wish; don't expect people to pay attention to you if you choose to do so. Stupidity should be painful; its ever so much fun to watch!

:eyes:

[sweetheart]

19. Yes indeed

Perhaps we should install, in our new utopia, blaring klaxons on every
street corner with a pulpit on a pole. Then people can sit in the
pulpits and scream the rules of life to us, good manners and bad manners
over and over in shrill voices ringing out across the city.

DO this, DON't do that, do this don't do that, as if we don't have
commmon sense already. Perhaps we should force people to take mandatory
1 hour per day sessions with people who blast them with the rules and
the new laws and the way things should be. Each citizen should be
tied up in restraints, their eyes held open with crow bars, and the
laws read to them until they go insane.

It is petty, having all these pulpits, and for all the sentiment, the
right to innocense is violated.

"Don't murder anyone today."

By saying this to you, i automatically frame you in to being a potential
murderer. By screaching out on my pulpit klaxon horn, that you should
mind your manners and whatnot, i similarly frame you as an abuser,
and i was simply noting how what would have been, in past times, as a
clear breach of ettiquette to chide the dinner table for its ettiquette.

Some of us eat how we eat, and if you don't like it, then don't
watch. But to go about ordering people how to eat, its all a bit
of not minding your own business, getting the authoritarian nose in
to everyone, and pretty soon we have busing, seat belt laws, helmet
laws, drugs laws and the citizen is stripped of their right to be
responsible for their own decisions. Then we become a society
of amoral persons, as their moral roots of making sound decisions
are so weakened by legal and moralist authoritarian interference,
that the society becomes intolerable, with camera's in every room
so fucking politically correct that people are afraid to fart in
the bathroom.

[Bunny]

21. Question:

When someone is out on the ledge, are you one of the bystanders on the ground shouting "JUMP!!!"?

[sweetheart]

26. No

I am someone who prays for that person and send
them vibes of goodwill from all of my life that
they appreciate the great gift of existance.

Just because i don't want rules, does not mean
that i don't have ettiquette.

It is that false framing of "with us or against us"
in another veil. The false logic, of "support the rules"
or you plan to shout "jump" to someone on a ledge.

Maybe, as i posted in the first title "nothing" nothing.
A blank look that though you have read the rules, i've
ignored the entire thing, and will follow my heart.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[swimboy]

35. There are no klaxons in Utopia. Nor pulpits. eom

[Zorbuddha]

39. I'm so confused...

I agree, completely. Sort of.

Rule #1

Be kind.


There are no other rules...Now I'll go punish myself.

[hickman1937]

49. I love that first paragraph.

Do you mind if I write it down, and pin it to my desk?

[JimmyJazz]

14. So what you are saying is that your screen name is

sarcastic? :shrug:

[sweetheart]

24. No that liberty is sweet

Grant me the liberty of not reading me the rules, or if you chide my
ettiquette, speak up right then, but don't make burdensome rules and
read them to me in the lounge.

We suffer a moral crisis in our culture, because people are not
responsible for their decisions. The rules and the rule readers have
taken on a life of their own, that we are not at liberty to simply
be natural, to interact and learn from our mistakes, how to be kind
hearted and bearing goodwill.

Sometimes a puppy bites too hard, and the teeth break your skin. It
hurts like hell, and the puppy is an "asshole". You can pick it up and
break its neck with your two hands for having bad ettiquette, or you can
take the pain and love it, showing it that love is always victorious
over violence.

Or you can shout over and over and over at the puppy, DON'T bite, and
kick the dog, "Don't bite" screaming at the top of your lunges... and
the little puppy will see the ultimate in bad ettiquette, a person who
has become hateful, judgemental and angry, filled with fear, of a little
furry puppy's teething.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Authoritarians only exist because others can't help but be stupid fucknuts

Would we need a boatload of police if people didn't drink too much and drive, take things that weren't theirs, do things to people that people don't want them doing to them or the like?

Would we need a military if countries all said to one another..."you know..you have a point..let's compromise."

Would we need a mayor if the whole town ran itself effortlessly?

Sorry....but as in life where there are den mothers, police officers and the like..the reason there are authoritarian results are because there are fucking assholes who just can't do the right motherfucking thing in the first place without someone following behind them breathing hellfire up their irresponsible smelly ass.

[Taverner]

37. I think the two of you agree more than you think you do

NSMA- sweetheart is not saying it's right to be crass in the face of suffering, just that they don't like being read rules. It comes across as condescending.

sweetheart- the OP wasn't really advocating censorship, just advocating self control. Essentially what you were advocating.

OK...now kiss and make up, OK?

[hickman1937]

45. Well said. I agree.

[Zuni]

38. what the hell is your problem

:crazy:

[Deja Q]

16. I must agree.

I've learned that people need to band together and be their own support system. Life should be about people; not things.

Our society itself is wrong in THAT regard. Making a system and then breaking it in roder to cause more strain on those who are in it does no help.

[Hugin]

20. I respectfully disagree with the advice request part of this rant...

Yes, when someone is in pain... Put a sock in it.

But, when someone is asking advice and I don't know the answer.
I use a comment to "kick" the thread due to the fact nobody ever
reads anything past the first page around here.

Generally, what I say isn't snarky in these cases.

[Wetzelbill]

27. that sounds pretty valid

you just have to be wary about the comment, but yeah, good point.

[lpbk2713]

22. This needed to be said and I'm glad you said it.

If you can't offer anything positive at least STFU.

A lot of people just don't get how lame their attempts at being clever really are.


:eyes:

[Pithlet]

30. I agree

And I love it that you already got a "Don't tell me what to do!" response. That didn't take long.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. Isn't that the fucking truth! Thanks for telling people what they already

SHOULD know...but i gotta say..the same people that would piss all over a thread where others are in pain are the same people that will tell half the population to lighten up when some asshole makes a t-shirt promoting violence against women...


so..uh..what were we expecting? A scintilla of class?

[youspeakmylanguage]

63. And so the flamewars erupt, again.

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

and.....

[youspeakmylanguage]

68. I'm done commenting on this subject...

A lot of people are tired of it. We were told over and over again what both sides believed. It went all 12 rounds. Now it's just old.

The fact that you're bringing it up again on an unrelated thread is worth mentioning, though.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

70. Gee...I'm so sorry to displease you...you do have the option of putting me

on ignore..yeah..the same kind of asshole that would pour salt on the wound of a person in pain is the same kind of asshole that would make those comments like "get over it" in those threads...

For me personally, the world would bea much better place if those people just hurried up and died.

[youspeakmylanguage]

74. Whatever...peace! (n/t)

[Bucky]

34. "the ever-popular option..."

RE: "the ever-popular option of shutting the fuck up"

Sadly, this is not quite as popular an option as you might think.

[dr.zoidberg]

36. Fuck that!

You should beat them over the head with a tire iron. If they survive it, then they'll learn their lesson.:evilgrin:

[Kurovski]

41. unfortunately, this will mean nothing to freeps

in deep cover or otherwise.

Best to hit the alert either way and jump in to gently support the DUer in crisis.

[BlueIris]

42. Yeah, just in general, assholes should fuck off.

This shouldn't be the place for your dipshit behaviors. Go abuse your spouse, children or employees or whatever else it is you do when you're not here.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

43. Friends don't let friends post drunk

No matter how entertaining it is to watch them hunt and peck on the keyboard, do the right thing and take their keyboard until they're sober. :hi:

[CBHagman]

44. Thanks UDL.

:hug:

[TXlib]

47. So, what's a drunken recreational asshole to do?

[Darth_Kitten]

48. Here's something else....

There's no need to mock or put down another DU'er because they choose not to like somebody or something you do. :)

[jpgray]

50. Ha--usually "get high" is the best advice in those threads

And that shows how low the bar is set. In some of these pity-parties, the pitied gets off on being pitied, and the pitiers get off on pitying. This creates positive reinforcement for an endless cycle of "poor-me" threads that don't do any good for anybody. Now, that doesn't mean in a thread about a loved one's death I would approve of someone posting "your aunt was a lousy lay" or something like that, but you have to take the bad with the good on a public message board.

[StopTheMorans]

73. excellent post

:thumbsup:

[Democracy White]

51. As someone who is constantly battling depression

every single day I agree with the OP. I have suicidal thoughts every now and then but what I really want is someone who will listen to my complaints.
I am in alot of emotional pain that I can't control very well without meds which in itself does a fat of lot of good, so when I come to someone to just listen I don't want to hear "Just get high!!" or whatever. I want a sympathetic ear (or in this case, eyes)
I understand that there are alot of snarky people here on DU, but I will say that maybe when someone reaches out in pain, you should keep your snarkiness to other threads and not the one where the OP is probably at home crying his/her eyes out and maybe even contemplating suicide.

Dee

[patcox2]

52. Reminder: Don't tell me what to do, asshole.

Don't bare your soul on a public message board if you don't like the response. Get a life and quit lecturing people with your holier than thou attitude.

[Pithlet]

53. Reminder

If you're an asshole, people get to call you on it.

[patcox2]

56. Reminder: If I needed your approval, I'd be pathetic.

nt

[Pithlet]

58. My post had nothing to do with approval

It has to do with the fact that assholes can and will get called on their behavior here, just like they would in real life. I'm not asking anyone to give a shit whether or not I approve of them, I assure you.

[patcox2]

64. Oohhh, how scary, to "get called" on one's behavior.

Why the thought of it makes me tremble; perhaps I should reconsider whether I want to be an asshole or not.

Oh this is so cool, this is a community, we have our mores and customs, oh we are supportive and positive, its just like a fantasy of having a real life! Ohh, someone give me a hug!

[Pithlet]

65. Obviously, it does bother you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3748099&mesg_id=3750499

Edited for correct link. Damnit.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

69. You might be even without needing her approval :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. Yes, that'll create a sense of community

In fact why have civility and respect rules at all? I think if someone is a fucking asshole it's disrespecting myself to have to hold back.

[BlueIris]

77. It totally is (non-self-respecting). People can't just do whatever

they want. Society has laws, and rules, and boundaries. And on DU, an online society, we have clearly delineated guidelines about what should and should not be done in the forums. Namely, DU tells people not to engage in blatantly anti-social behavior, like being an asshole, which is definitely the name for someone who posts something cruel in the thread of a member discussing his or her own personal, painful issues.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

78. I completely concur :)

[BlueIris]

54. I really cannot stand assholes, particularly on DU.

I strongly feel that anyone engaging in cruelly inappropriate behavior toward others needs to go to long term therapy, or at the very least, keep their disgusting, dysfunctional shit to themselves. The idea that anyone would share it with a hurting contributor to this website--a place that on the whole I have always found to be a resource of compassionate, supportive, likeminded progressive folks--is appalling. And it's not in the spirit in which this website was conceived (says so right there in the DU rules, too).

[Pithlet]

55. Exactly

And if they don't keep their disgusting, dysfunctional shit to themselves, they shouldn't be so shocked when others point it out.

There are assholes in every walk of life, and has nothing to do with which side of the fence they are politically. Assholes, to me, are people who don't give a shit about other people's feelings.

In real life they're more likely to get called on their behavior to their face, so most assholes are kept in check that way, at least to a greater degree in most places. But, here, for some reason, they feel they should have absolute immunity to be as much of asshole as they want to be, and everyone else should shut up about it. I like this new trend on DU of standing up to them more often. I fully support it. Nothing wrong with wanting DU to be a better place.

[BlueIris]

66. ITA. People who expect to get to continue being welcome here,

an online community, for which there are consequences for unacceptable behavior, like getting banned, need to check their bullshit. Assholery really doesn't fly in the real world most of the time, and it's sad that people feel the need to spew their nastiness, inconsideration and fucked-up mentalities online just because they feel they're entitled to not act like human beings. Especially on DU. There are other sites for that grotesque, uncivilized evil. I'm sure some of the assholes who've posted disgusting, inappropriate, gouche remarks in this thread would be quite welcome at FR.com. They should head over there right now, if you ask me. And then they should be the ones to get lives. All assholes do is hurt and destroy the lives of others.

[Pithlet]

72. You're right. I'll say though that DUer does have fewer

precisely because it's tolerated less here. And, I like it that way.

[Kraklen]

57. Go smoke a bowl.

Lighten up.

[fudge stripe cookays]

59. In most cases, I completely agree.

But when these threads are started by the same few DUers constantly searching for affirmation and attention, I tend to agree much less.

For those suffering and in pain due to job loss, loss of a loved one (breakup or death), or whatever, I am the most understanding person around. Seriously.

But it's almost as if some people don't WANT the advice we give them. We say "PLEASE see a counselor or get some help," and yet here they are, day after day, unloading to DU instead of a professional. It's almost as if they thrive on negative attention.

I tend to avoid these threads as a rule, but I can understand how others snap at these DUers sometimes. The "helpline" locks are great, but the mods should not have to be constantly looking over every thread with a fine-toothed comb monitoring it for suicidal references.

If you are having these types of thoughts, you need to see a professional. NOT an internet forum.

FSC

[Pithlet]

60. I don't think that's what the OP was talking about, though.

In the real, sincere cases you were talking about, you'll get the occasional asshole that just wants to be a shit. That kind is everyewhere, in real life and message boards. I've never been on a message board that didn't have its share.

I do know what you mean though about the other kinds of posts. They're everywhere, too, and can get annoying.

[fudge stripe cookays]

61. OK.

FWIW, I have NEVER told someone to buy a Mac.

:hide:

[Pithlet]

62. Neither have I

PC all the way. I would buy Mac, though, if they weren't so damn expensive.

[xmas74]

75. This is good advice for life in general.

What is the point of being rude? No one likes it when someone else is rude to them so why behave badly to others?
If you have advice that is helpful than please post. If you see that something is dropping off the front page and you don't have helpful advice, it is fine to post a "kick" and maybe a quick explanation that you can't help them but will keep this in plain view of others.
If I am ever purposefully rude to someone I hope that they send me a pm and tell me how they feel. Chances are that I have no idea how that person feels. I've never had a problem w/ apologizing. If it's pointed out to me than I will apologize for my actions.

[Moderator]

79. Locking.

This thread has degenerated into personal attacks.