Golden Rules?

[hyphenate]

Arguing with my best friend the other day about "values" and how or why she believes you need a non-secular environment in order to have a conscience and behave kindly to others.

She firmly believes that those who are atheists or agnostics, or some other non-"Christian" backgrounds, don't have a conscience, and don't follow moral tenets.

I tried to argue with her by pointing out that I fall within that category, but she insists that because I am only a "lapsed" Catholic, that I had a baptism, and so somehow I follow the "rules" even though I despise the church now.

She says that if someone was baptized that they will always have values, but those who did not are unable to have morals, values, compassion, a conscience and are doomed as heathens.

This is an argument I've heard a lot from those who espouse "Christian" values on the right. It gives a lot of fundies untold joy to think that those who are not "Christian" are going to burn in hell for all eternity. Whether they themselves are righteous or not, it's more of the pot calling the kettle black: be baptized, be part of the movement known as "Christianity" and you will go to heaven regardless of your other actions, even if you're a mass murderer--as long as before you die you confess your sins to a priest, minister, pastor or whatever the hell your spiritual guardian is.

Does anyone besides myself deem this attitude a pile of bullshit? I know many agnostics and atheists who are far more compassionate, more considerate and far more caring than many of these so-called "Christians."

I really wish those with such an agenda would go away and stop trying to sit on their high horse. Meanwhile the rest of us get blamed for a lot of their actions while they say they're following the so-called "Golden Rule."

[progmom]

1. your friend is full of shit

sorry.

[caty]

2. Yes it's bullshit.

I grew up in a non-religious home and in my experience most (not all) of the people I know who call themselves christian are the most hateful and mean spirited people I know. I was taught right from wrong by being taught to be ethical. I was taught that you were only as good as your word and to never break a promise because it destroys you credibility. I am charitable and I go out of my way to be kind and helpful to people. And I learned to be like this without religion.

[jody]

3. The Golden Rule is found in many religions. Mammon worshipers use

the Rule of Gold, i.e. those with gold make the rules.

[caty]

4. In addition:

The fact that your friend feels that way about atheists, agnostics, and other non-christians is an example of being mean spirited. Christian values are "supposed" to included "love thy neighbor", "forgive your enemies", "turn the other cheek", and being charitable in word as well as deed. Jesus was a liberal and a pacifist and took a lot of his teachings from Buddhism. Compassion is the key--not elitism.

[progmom]

5. exactly!