May I ask a kind of grotesque question?

[Maddy McCall]

In instances of suicide, is it common for just a brief obit to appear in the paper, with only info about the time and location of the wake and funeral?

Is it usual for the family to go into complete seclusion, until the wake?

I'm really tired, so I don't feel like elaborating, and I'll respond later. I just want to hear what is usual, or, rather, unusual. Thanks in advance.

[merh]

1. That is normally how some families handle

such a sad situation, yes.

((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))

[Maddy McCall]

9. Most obits here have everything the person ever did...

every child or grandchild the person spawned, ad nauseum. This one had NOTHING in it. NOTHING. Not even the children were listed. Nor the husband. Just time and place of wake/funeral, and "died in her home."

[merh]

14. They are in shock and the family probably couldn't deal with

writing the obituary. It is the family that provides the information and they probably couldn't right now.

:hug: You all (or as VelmaD taught me last night y'all) are in my prayers and you have my number if you need to talk. I am here if you need. :hug:

[XemaSab]

52. My friend who died

of an OD, most of the public reports have been saying "died at his father's home."

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

I don't think anything is usual

That's just how they are coping with their shocking loss

[Maddy McCall]

5. Thanks, NSMA.

[progmom]

2. Yes.

I think this would be pretty normal behavior for the situation you described.

And I am so sorry, Maddy. :hug:

[Maddy McCall]

7. Kinda what I thought.

:(

[progmom]

8. Your story raised some red flags for me.

So I am not surprised you're thinking that way too. :hug:

[Maddy McCall]

16. I'm starting to worry that it might be worse than what I had originally...

thought. I'll update everyone when I know more.

You all are the best. :grouphug:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

3. Usually the obit says 'died at her home' or 'died suddenly'

I'm so sorry about your friend, Maddy! :hug: What a shock.

[Maddy McCall]

4. Fuck.

Thanks, Kathy.

I'll know more tonight. Everyone is sooo tight lipped. :(

[Fenris]

6. I think it is also done sans explanation.

In other words, the obituary appears in the paper like a normal obituary, with the cause of death excluded. A lot of obituaries are done like this for privacy.

As for family seclusion before a wake, I assume that's more of an individual family decision. I don't know how commonplace it is.

[Maddy McCall]

10. It's an odd obit to me...

It was very, very brief...didn't list any relatives or anything, just time and place of services.

Thanks.

[trof]

12. OK. That's about standard.

[trof]

11. As an old obit writer...

Usually NOTHING.
No details about cause of death in a suicide.
Usually nothing about survivors either.
Just a simple "Services will be held for Joe Doaks at the Elmwood Funeral Home...blah blah blah.

[Maddy McCall]

17. That's kind of what I was thinking.

I appreciate your input.

[Tallison]

51. Why nothing about survivors

I wonder? I don't know how acknowledgment of kin and the social matrix within which the deceased existed would be inapprorpiate, unless, of course it's all owing to the cultural stigma of suicide and people wanting to disassociate themselves as much as possible from it. It may be revealing to compare American obits to those of other cultures for reasons like this (among others).

[Rabrrrrrr]

54. I find it so sad when people have so much shame around a suicide that

they won't even mention the family. Just awful. At that point, why even bother with an obit?

I have seen a couple obits over the years that DID mention the cause of death AND the family - the family wanting to make sure that the community DOES know what happened to raise awareness of suicide, and to say "hey, nothing shameful about it" and "It could be someone in your family next".

I applaud those families who do so.

[Tallison]

62. Exactly

And in some convoluted way not publically acknowledging a suicide tacitly validates the likely mindset of deceased, that theirs was an insignificant or malignant existence without which the world would be a better place. So sad. I'm making myself sick just thinking about it. :cry:

I've always regarded communities as the ultimate organism, of which people constitute individual cells. When a cell dies, for whatever reason, it induces a change in the role and function of every surviving one within the organism. A lack of this effect, I think, signifies a degree of sickness in the organism, ie the community, as a whole.

[jody]

13. Things change so I wouldn't worry about conventions. I would do whatever

my spirit drives me to do and the rest of the world can go to hell.

I see no reason for a family to go into seclusion because others will certainly share in the grieving process.

May your spirit guide you on the right path.

[Maddy McCall]

18. I'm going to the wake.

No, no one would ever keep me away from anywhere I want to be. I want to be a friend to the family, but I think they are wanting to be alone, so I'll wait to later, when I can do things they may need.

[texastoast]

15. It really depends on the family

All families handle it differently. However, I'm not sure about Catholics (assuming they are from your reference to a wake).

Some people are ashamed they have a family member who committed suicide (burning in hell for doing so, etc.) and do not want to discuss it at all. Others share their experience in an effort to raise consciousness about the issue that "caused" the suicide.

Just use your judgment and be sensitive to the family's wishes. That's the best you can do.

[Maddy McCall]

20. No. Baptists. Baptists call the pre-funeral viewing a "wake" here.

Thanks for the advice. I agree--I'm going to hold back until I feel that I can "be there" when they need me to.

[Momgonepostal]

19. I guess it depends on the newspaper, but that seems weird to me

Here cause of death is almost never listed, no matter what the cause, although sometimes it will say "send remembrances to THe American Heart Association..." or something similar, so people get the idea.

I've never seen an obit HERE omit family members, when there were known family members, no matter what the cause of death.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[Maddy McCall]

22. Same here.

I've seen obits here run one solid column, the entire length of the paper.

[Maddy McCall]

23. THANKS EVERYONE.

I'm going to catch some zzzs...and then I'll take it from there when I get up in an hour or two.

You all are great. So much wisdom at this website.

[trof]

25. I see a lot of "lost her long battle with cancer..."

Which kind of sticks in my craw for some reason.
It's a small town, deep south paper.
I think OK, you get cancer, you get the best treatment you can afford.
You get well, or at least remission, or you don't.
I just don't see the "battle" part.
:shrug:

[gmoney]

40. Trust me, it can be a battle...

It's a nightmare, and I hope you and your loved ones never have to go through it.

[KitchenWitch]

63. Thank you

as a survivor of cancer, it is a battle...

[miss_kitty]

45. um-it's a battle n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. I am not sure. We have had suicides on both sides of our family but

I was not involved with the funerals or notices.

[Maddy McCall]

24. Yeah, same here...

but I was too young or two preoccupied to care about the obits. This time, I kind of feel like I'm watching from outside the fishbowl, and I think I'm overanalyzing. It's what I always do when there's a lack of info...overanalyze what little I know.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. *hugs* We'll be here for you, whether you know or not

[Susang]

27. That's what happened in the one case I was close to

No one was sure how to phrase the death notice, so it was put as simply and with as few details as possible.

I'm sorry for everything you're going through. :-(

[Maddy McCall]

33. Thanks, Susan.

I'll update when I know something. :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I went to a funeral recently of a suicide victim

and the only thing that was a bit different is the obit didn't mention the cause of death. But then not every obit does.

Maddy, wait for the autopsy. Do you remember me telling about a friend of mine who was killed in a car wreck last Sept? He was a veteran and had worked with Vets for Kerry here in KS so I mentioned his death here on DU. This guy had been in chronic pain since Vietnam and had gotten to the point that he couldn't work anymore. He had a very hard life. The week before he died, he had bought a new (to him, not brand new) car and decided to drive it to his Dr's appt in Topeka. His wife wanted to go with him but he talked her in to staying at home. Well on the way home from the Dr, his car crossed the center line and collided head on with a semi.

As soon as I heard all the details, I was just convinced he had killed himself. So were several other mutual friends.

Then 3 months after he died, the autopsy results came back and he died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Apparently there was a leak in his car somewhere and after the first long highway trip in this car, (he was almost home when the wreck happened) the leak was bad enough to kill him. The local sheriff examined his car and confirmed this as the cause of death. And none of us who knew him believe he would have tampered with the car to cause his death this way. He was the kind of guy who would have shot himself. He lived in the country and had a whole arsenal of guns.

So wait for the autopsy. Just sayin. . .

[Maddy McCall]

34. Thanks so much for sharing your story.

I really appreciate this. I'm holding on to this until I hear directly from the family. :hug:

[pitohui]

29. yes it is common

it is rude for a newspaper to report the death as a suicide

a brief notice that the person passed suddenly, no cause given, is all that is required

[Maddy McCall]

35. Our local newspaper never reports the cause of death...

unless the family request such. That's not my concern. My concern is the brevity of it....not even the children were listed...no relatives, no family. Nothing.

[pitohui]

56. ok i get it

they are actually trying not to embarrass the family by naming names

they screwed up but it's out of kindness

come to think of it, this did happen with a couple of suicides i knew back in the day

they don't know if the family wants names mentioned so rather than intrude they just keep it short

intentions are to be kind

ps -- so sorry that this happened to your friend

[Rabrrrrrr]

60. newspapers don't write obituaries - the family do

so it's not the newspaper hiding stuff, it's the family.

(unless you're frickin' famous, and the NYT and etc. will write their own versions of an obituary, but otherwise, the family are the ones who write the obits)

[Wapsie B]

30. Please keep us posted.

I don't know this person at all but I found myself thinking about this all day. I'm so sorry for your loss.

[Maddy McCall]

37. You all have been great.

Thanks for being online last night, when I had just heard the news. :hug:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. things have really changed since 100 years ago

I had two great-grandfathers who committed suicide. All the grisly details were reported in the local paper, including speculation as to why they took their lives-as a part of the obituary. When I discovered the obits, I cringed. I can't imagine how the family dealt with it at the time. Much much better to not say much at all, I'd think.

[Maddy McCall]

38. Yes, I agree.

[jmm]

44. Had something similar happen in my family.

My grandma's brother committed suicide. Not only did they list all of the details in the obituary they wrote an article about it and put a picture of his body lying on the ground on the front page and circled the knife he used which was in the grass nearby him. To say the least all of this attention did not help the family grieve.

[JimmyJazz]

32. My heart is breaking for you, sweetie.

It really is. :(

[Maddy McCall]

39. Hey, I'm ok.

I am completely fine. Sad, sure. I'm really thinking about the kids. No matter how she passed, going so young is just so hard on the family.

Thanks, JJ. :hug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

36. As others have told you

This pretty common, at least it is where I am. When I worked at our local paper that was the normal obit for under those circumstance.


I'm really sorry. :hug:

[Maddy McCall]

41. Thanks so much, Lone Star.

I appreciate it. :hug:

[Maddy McCall]

42. WILL BE OFFLINE FOR AWHILE.

I'll update when I have more info. Thanks, each of you, for all you do for your fellow DUers. :grouphug:

[bertha katzenengel]

53. Thinking of you, Maddy.

All best thoughts. :hug:

[miss_kitty]

43. for my friend that committed suicide in January

the announcement was a paid one, and the family did not say in the announcement. She was not famous, so there was no news article about her. They implied it was something else by saying "In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to the Multiple Sclerosis Society," which I thought was ok, since it was a disease their mom died of.
I think all families handle it differently and different members within the family will handle it differently, since it can be interpreted as an act of anger or selfishness against certain members, and others will feel guilt or outrage at the deceased.

I am so sorry for your loss, Maddy McCall.

[roguevalley]

46. its whatever they can handle. Don't bury this. Put a notice in and

don't mention the means of death. Most people I know who had this, did it that way. I don't know about seclusion. Are they sitting shiva? or are they just traumatized? If its the latter, then people should see them if they are up to it. It isn't their fault and they shouldn't beat themselves. Suicide is a private thing.

[no name no slogan]

47. not always-- i've seen them say they died from depression

i've seen that more recently, where it said the person took their own life after a long battle with depression.

and IMHO it's about fucking time we started talking like that, too. major depression is a disease like any other disease, and those of us who fight it every day of our lives fight just as hard as anybody else with a chronic disease.

i hope to hell i don't kill myself, but if i do i want the obit to say that i fought my ass off against this rotten, insidious disease. the more stigma we bust, the better.

[AlienGirl]

48. There's still so much stigma attached to this issue

Suicide is still viewed by many as a sin and a moral failing, rather than as the result of a devastating brain disease. Even people who ought to know better often speak of it as "the coward's way out" (as if it were easy) and "the ultimate selfishness" (as if it were an intentionally punitive act against others, rather than a desparate attempt to get out of crippling emotional pain).

Tucker

[Tallison]

64. I'm with you

See posts #51, 54 and 62.

[ScreamingMeemie]

49. When my father in law committed suicide we didn't do anything

but cremate him. People spontaneously came over one night and we reminisced about who he used to be. My husband just wanted to move on.

I hope all is well.

[Rabrrrrrr]

50. It all depends on the shame the family is feeling

[AlienGirl]

55. But why should the family feel ashamed at all?

Because they had a family member with depression? If so, were they ashamed of their relative when he/she was alive? And why be ashamed of being related to someone mentally ill, any more than being ashamed of someone with multiple sclerosis?

I think this is an issue that really needs destigmatization. The stigma does nothing to prevent suicide, and discourages prople from seeking needed help. :-(

Tucker

[Rabrrrrrr]

58. Oh, I don't think they should feel shame at all

But many do - and I think it's the shame that makes them not want to talk about it, not put anything in the obit, and not even associate themselves in the obit with the suicidal relative.

It's very sad, indeed.

There's no reason to feel shame around it at all; and I agree with you - the shame that people feel makes the situation WORSE, because it means we continue not to talk about it.

[AlienGirl]

59. I know *you* don't; I was speaking rhetorically!

:hi:

[flamingyouth]

57. I think it just depends on the situation

When the death is really sudden like that, I can totally understand why a family would need to seclude for a while. A friend of mine's mother just passed away on Sunday after a very brief bout with cancer; the family was really broadsided by it, and I know that they are pretty much keeping to themselves until next week. The memorial will be two weeks after her death.

I'm sorry to hear of this person's passing. :hug:

[WCGreen]

61. Yes MAddy, that is usually how it is done