Why do people smoke?

[renter]

The following is a rant. If you are offended, get over it. Smoking kills you. It stinks and stains. If you smoke, I feel you should pay more into Medicare. It is a horrible and disgusting habit. End of rant. If you smoke, PLEASE quit. Thank you.

[Droopy]

1. Most people smoke because they are addicted

And addiction makes people do irrational things.

I just quit smoking 2 weeks ago and I was not able to do it without the help of a drug called Wellbutrin. I smoked for 16 years and probably tried to quit at least a hundred times. But I was never able to do it before now. That's how hard it is to quit.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. Do you feel the same about people who eat too much?

Or drug abusers? Or heavy drinkers?

[AntiCoup2K4]

7. Eating is neccessary for survival

Smoking and alcohol are not. Now we could get into eating disorders, or various physical problems which might cause obesity, but none of that changes the fact that food, when used correctly, will not kill you, or anyone else around you. Therefore the comparison isn't valid.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

9. I didn't say otherwise.

I asked the OP if EXCESSIVE eating is a problem for him.

[KitchenWitch]

11. ...

:popcorn:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

12. Meaning?

[KitchenWitch]

15. not directed at you in particular

but this whole thread has the looks of a flamewar...

I have the popcorn ready as I like to watch trainwrecks

[Starbucks Anarchist]

16. Oh.

Sorry if I came across as mad at you or something.

:hi:

[KitchenWitch]

18. No offense taken

you did not come across that way at all, I just felt I had to moderate what I said so I would not come off the wrong way...:D

[Starbucks Anarchist]

20. It's all good.

:)

[AntiCoup2K4]

17. Oh, I thought you were making the statement that virtual popcorn has.....

....no calories. And therefore is OK to eat in a thread where food is somehow compared to a self destructive drug addiction.

[KitchenWitch]

21. nope!

:hi:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KitchenWitch]

4. um ... Welcome to DU

I am a former smoker, drinker and drugger. I found smoking the most difficult of the three habits to break. That being said, I cannot tolerate the smell of it now...

[Goldmund]

5. Yup, and if you're fat you should pay more.

Also, if you don't excercize... Actually, Big Bro will schedule mandatory excersizing at 6:30 AM, in the duration of 15 minutes. It's a free country, mind you, you don't like, have to-have to do it; but if you don't, you'll end up paying more for health care... If you can afford it, of course.

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. See #7

thanks...

[Goldmund]

24. Good spelling

;)

A complete non sequitur, however.

[Syrinx]

6. Because it goes nicely with a cold beer?

:shrug:

[AntiCoup2K4]

10. Nah, beer tastes much better when you can actually taste it!

:beer:

[Syrinx]

13. well, it depends on how much you paid for that six pack

:)

[AntiCoup2K4]

14. Stop buying cigs and you'll have money for GOOD beer

:)

[WCGreen]

19. Cause there on fire

[Syrinx]

26. that's funny

:rofl:

[friesianrider]

22. I agree 200%.

If you smoke, you should pay more. It stinks - literally and figuratively. If you make poor health choices, you should pay more.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. Then that better apply to ALL bad health choices.

Don't take it out just on the smokers.

[friesianrider]

29. Fine, all bad health choices.

That are verifiably as destructive and harmful as smoking.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

35. At least you're consistent.

:)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. I understand why people can't quit, but

I don't understand why they start in the first place. :shrug:

[smbolisnch]

28. Anybody can quit.

It's not easy. Some people just don't really want to.

[Droopy]

32. I had my first cigarette when I was 11

My dad smoked and I wanted to see what it was all about. After that even when I got caught by my parents and I was punished I still smoked when I had the opportunity. There was a little neighborhood store close to where I grew up. They would sell cigarettes to 13 year olds. I would go in there after I did my newspaper route every so often and buy a pack of cigarettes. By the time I was 16 I was a half a pack a day smoker. My parents got tired of punishing me by then. From that point up until two weeks ago I could not quit smoking. I was up to a pack and a half a day.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

27. Why do people drive cars?

It pollutes, it causes death, destruction, higher medical insurance costs, and stress. There are options to not driving, like riding a bicycle, walking, or using public transportation. Cars are not a necessity unless a person lives many miles from work. Even then, there are car pools, buses, and trains. Kids can walk to school. Adults can walk or take a bus to the mall or the restaurant or grocery store. I've been without a car for weeks at a time and adjusted to it.

It's a question of what you like to do. Cars are convenient and enjoyable. Smoking is enjoyable to a smoker, like a good cigar or pipe. So is overeating to the overeater. So is drinking to the fancier of alcohol.

Next time, only eat what you need for bare survival, not for enjoyment. Only drive that amount you need for bare survival, avoiding needless stressful driving that shortens your life. Dont' drink alcohol.

[friesianrider]

30. Driving a car is more necessary than smoking.

Smoking is a choice that serves no other purpose than to pollute your lungs and make you sick (and supposedly, for whatever other stupid reasons people smoke).

Cars aren't really "enjoyable." I don't drive for the fun of it 99.9999% of the time, I drive because I need to go to work to pay for my healthcare which is so high because of people who make poor health choices ;)

How about a comprimise. People who make GOOD health choices are REWARDED with lower costs?

[Goldmund]

33. Yeah, great compromise!

So, instead of having people who "make bad health choices" pay more, you'll have people who "make good health choices" pay less!

Brilliant!

:rofl:

[friesianrider]

34. Um, ok.

I think people should be rewarded for not smoking or not drinking or whatever. Guess that's absurd...:eyes:

[Goldmund]

39. What's absurd is that you think that's a compromise.

You only altered the semantics of "people who smoke should pay more", not the meaning of it.

[friesianrider]

43. I could give two shits about smokestacks killing themselves.

I couldn't care less if they die, either. It's their kids and grandkids who will be forced to pay the price for their "pleasurable" experiences. Try seeing your beloved grandmother lying in a hosptial bed in a diaper unable to fucking URINATE or lift her right arm to give you a hug before she died from emphysema without gasping for breath because it stresses her body too much and maybe then you'd get a fucking clue why I don't care about smokers.

They can shove their cigarettes up their ass for all I care, it's their kids and grandkids who will resent their selfish asses for forcing them to see them like that.

[Goldmund]

44. This rant really borders on the fascist.

[friesianrider]

45. Yeah? Fuck you.

How's that for fascist? Asshole.

[Goldmund]

47. You obviously need a cigarette...

[friesianrider]

49. You obviously need to go fuck yourself.

Seriously. You can put that cigarette to good use.

[Goldmund]

62. ROFL

:rofl: :rofl:

First of all, I quit smoking a while ago.

Second, I think you should pay more for health care, since all that bitterness and tension cannot be good for the heart. Hell, it's not even good for the teeth, you must grind them a lot at night.

Or should I say, those who don't spew random bile on message boards should be REWARDED for good health habits?

[friesianrider]

67. Wow, you are SO clever

:eyes: I guess bitter and tense old me doesn't have a response to your ever so witty retort!

I do have three words for you though: go fuck yourself. :) :hi:

[Goldmund]

68. Can you repeat that one more time?

For old times' sake?

[friesianrider]

69. Sure can!

Go fuck yourself. :hi:

[Goldmund]

71. .

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[friesianrider]

73. Why thank you!

Go ahead, you can have last word. You're too smart for me anyway :hi:

[smbolisnch]

72. .

*snort*
Oh hon.... :hug:

[smbolisnch]

51. I don't see how it is fascist?

:shrug:

[AntiCoup2K4]

52. Actually what borders on the facsist is how these threads....

...always degenerate into a bunch of whiny tobacco addicts talking about their habit like it's a goddamn birthright or something. Truthfully, I'd rather people shot heroin than smoked cigarettes, because at least their needles don't go in MY body.

[friesianrider]

55. Very well said.

Now excuse me while I wash my own mouth out with soap. :)

[smbolisnch]

57. I agree.

:thumbsup:

[Droopy]

60. See post #1

[Goldmund]

66. I'm not a tobacco addict

However, I'm not a senseless hater either and I believe in people's rights and their coexistence.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

37. You don't have to drive - I've gone without driving

I've commuted 45 miles either way to work using public transportation and not a personal car. It certainly wasn't fun and it involved a lot of early morning departures and late night returns. But it was doable.

Driving cars pollutes the air far more than a few smokers. Smoking is enjoyable. It's pleasurable to light up a good tasting cigar. Driving is the avoidance of pain and therefore similarly enjoyable. The pain of not driving would be taking a bus, riding a bicycle, finding a lesser paying job closer to home and walking, etc. If people really wanted to, they could avoid driving or most of their driving. But they don't want the pain or bother of not driving. In other words, some people enjoy smoking, while some people enjoy the convenience of getting into a car to take a trip they don't have to really take. It's the same thing with alcohol and with most of the foods you find for sale in America.

[friesianrider]

40. But buses pollute too!

Unless you're riding a bike, that argument doesn't fly. :thumbsdown:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

46. Not at all - you will have a point only if the buses are full and new ones

have to be brought on line. Do you really think that one bus with 40 people aboard pollutes as much as 40 people driving their SUVs around, one person to one car? (Most buses that I see in California are virtually non-polluting by the way, running on natural gas). Why don't you consider paying more into Medicare if you have an auto accident that injures you that results from a needless car trip to the Mall to go shopping or to the restaurant. Would you be willing to allow that injuries resulting from frivolous car trips should also involve higher Medicare payments by the injured? It's only fair, as you see smoking as a frivolous and unnecessary pleasure.

[NMMNG]

48. Apparently you have access to public transportation

that takes you to your workplace. Some people don't.

The public transportation near my jobs begins operation at 7am and stops at 6pm. My jobs operate on graveyard shift, plus while the jobs themselves are both within range of a public bus my home is not. Nor is either job accessible by train. Such is the rub of rural living. Therefore I have no choice but to have a car to drive 20 miles each way to one job, and 15 miles each way to the other.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

54. Then why don't you buy a motorbike that pollutes less

Or find a different type of work that avoids commuting. There are always choices, with humans usually seeking the least painful, more advantageous or pleasureable choice.

[friesianrider]

58. Oh puh-lease.

You're seriously comparing the dangers of smoking to driving cars? :eyes:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

64. I think about 50,000 die each year from auto accidents

And many hundreds of thousands more suffer physical injury. Stress on your body from driving in heavy traffic weighs heavily on your lifespan and probably shortens everyone's life to an extent. Stress and the cortisol it produces is extremely damaging to the body and accelerates the aging process. Pollution is also a factor. I would guess that far more die or suffer illness as a result of auto accidents or get their lives shortened by driving stress than those who die or suffer illness from second hand smoke.

But the principle is that neither one is absolutely necessary. I don't see how smoking, if it's done away from individuals who object to it, should carry any greater penalty as far as higher medicare costs paid by the smoker than those who get injured taking unnessary and frivolous car trips. If you think I should pay more for medicare, what about your injury that you suffer for driving into town just to rent a videotape?

[tcfrogs]

31. Because I enjoy it

And it's a great stress relief. I'm not offended, I know it will kill me. Eventually. At least I'll get some enjoyment in the meantime.

Promise I won't smoke around you or blow it in your face, renter. :)

[I Know How To Do it]

36. If a stranger came up and said that to me while I was out having a cig

I'd probably punch them.

[smbolisnch]

38. How very progressive of you. nt

[I Know How To Do it]

41. define progressive.

[smbolisnch]

42. How about this.

A person who actively favors or strives for progress toward better conditions, as in society or government.

In other words, not physically attacking someone for offering their differing opinion. :shrug:

[I Know How To Do it]

50. Well I don't want people getting in my face telling me how I should

and shouldn't live.

I think the being obese comments here also apply.
I don't go up to people and insult them for being overweight, because that's their business and because I don't want to get punched in the face.

[smbolisnch]

53. Well, neither do I, but violence?

I don't think you would really do that, although you may feel like it. I would hope you wouldn't do it. And no, that would not be cool at all for someone to do. (approach you and say that)

[I Know How To Do it]

61. Well I haven't, but I can't say that I wouldn't. I have had people that

have said things like that, and I've told them to go ^&*% themselves.
Most of that is because 80% of the time I'm bigger and they are shit faced drunk.

[smbolisnch]

70. Having a verbal pissing match in a bar is one thing.

Not a good thing, but nevertheless, better than hitting someone. ;)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

56. In fairness to I Know How To Do It,

the OP's particular tone of his opinion is a bit extreme.

I'm a peaceful person, but I somewhat agree with I Know How To Do It's stance.

[smbolisnch]

59. I agree that this is flame bait.

And I also agree that it is totally out of line for someone to approach a stranger on the street and comment on their smoking. I just don't agree that physical violence is an appropriate response.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

63. It depends on their approach.

If the person has smoke blown in their direction, then they have a legitimate gripe. But if they complain just because they disagree with the smoker's habit, and particularly if they are belligerent about it, they can't really be surprised at the smoker's reaction, violent or otherwise.

[smbolisnch]

74. No I agree with you.

If you blow smoke in my (imaginary) kid's face, I will call you on it. But that would be justified. I think we are on the same page here :hi:

[I Know How To Do it]

76. Well sure. But the phrasing of the original question is my beef.

That's what I'm addressing.

[I Know How To Do it]

65. Yeah, It's like, "I'm sorry if I call you an asshole if you do XYZ, but"

It's really nowhere.

[KT2000]

75. sorry but smoking

is being used as a cover for other deadly products. Money is poured into research about smoking and almost none goes into other hazardous products.

There are many other things you should be ranting and worrying about - especially the forced exposures of hazardous products on children. The yards in their neighborhoods are treated with chemical products that children should not be exposed to. Their schools and playgrounds are treated with pesticides - most often without any notification to parents.

Building materials and furnishings are now made with lots of chemicals. Energy efficent homes trap those gasses inside the home. THERE HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY NO RESEARCH ON HOW THESE CHEMICALS REACT WITH EACH OTHER (Bush stopped the latest effort.)

Newborns have many commercial chemicals in their blood. Some of these mimic hormones and affect proper development.

Rant about smokers if you want but while everyone becomes fixated on smoking - they are letting the corporations get away with murder.

(Children's cancer rates are rising, asthma and allergies are epidemic, neurological diseases are increasing, especially in the young.)

[southlandshari]

77. Locking

Smoking - or smoking cessation - is not an inflammatory topic in and of itself, all puns aside.

This thread, however, was started with inflammatory rhetoric, and the presence of multiple flamewar subthread discussions make it impossible to keep it open.

Relevant DU rule on this one:

Do not post "flame bait" discussion topics. While there is no clear line regarding what constitutes flame bait, the moderators have the authority to shut down threads which they consider too rhetorically hot, too divisive, too extreme, or too inflammatory. Please use good judgment when starting threads; inflammatory rhetoric does not normally lead to productive discussion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html


Good night, all...

southlandshari
DU Moderator