I hate the fucking smell of misogyny in the morning

[Zomby Woof]

It's the smell of insecurity.

:wtf: Is it getting worse, or is it just me?

[rene moon]

1. No, it's getting worse

and unfortunately, most people don't or wont see it or acknowledge it.

[XemaSab]

2. Is there a specific event you have in mind

or is this a general observation?

[Zomby Woof]

5. General specific events

Specifically in general.

[XemaSab]

11. thanks for clarifying

n/t

[progmom]

3. hey , thanks ZW

yeah. x(

[VelmaD]

4. There's some good news and some bad news...

Yes, I see it getting worse around here some days. Some people just don't seem to be able to deal with the fact that the mods and admins are really enforcing the rules and deleting sexist posts.

But...I also see a lot more people standing up and telling people on DU to knock it off. Like you. :hug:

[Kipling]

7. What constitutes a sexist post?

Exactly how far do you have to go? Mock a feminist? Say that women are better cooks? Advocate the death penalty for any female over 12 found wearing shoes or not pregnant?

[VelmaD]

10. Go read the rules...

it's really quite simple. People seem to manage just fine not making racist posts the vast majority of the time. The women on DU deserve the same level of regard.

Personally I find your question a bit disingenuous. I think most people know perfectly well when they're being sexists...and some posters on DU just don't care.

[Kipling]

20. I was just meaning...

That I've not seen much, in my short time here, that I would consider offensive. Certainly not a "stink of misogyny". And racism is very hard to define too (consider immigration policy and the fine line there).

[Pithlet]

22. Stick around

There's plenty of it.

[VelmaD]

23. Well then, you've been lucky...

because we've gone through several really nasty flamewars in the last year over sexist language. Maybe the reason you haven't seen as much of it is because it's finally being taken seriously by the mods and the most egregious offenders are being deleted and/or locked.

[Kipling]

25. I'm surprised.

Most people here seem supportive of feminist ideals. Dissapointing to think even progressives would be split on the issue.

[VelmaD]

28. There are some things you have to take into account...

first not everyone posting here is a progresive. Second, some men, even within the Democratic party, have a hard time letting go of millenia of unearned advantage. They're so steeped in a culture of subtle sexism that they don't (or won't) see it.

There's a long long history in lberal/progressive politics of using women's labor but relegating our issues to the back burner. We're always one of the groups tossed aside for convenience. It's ugly but it's the truth. Go read the history of the suffrage movement. Or how women were treated in the student/anti-war movement in the 60s.

[WCGreen]

62. People of power have been using people

to get what they want regardless of sex.....

There have been many of us Dudes tossed away after we did all the hard work behind the scenes.....

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bunny]

127. And, as always, here's a man telling us women what we're allowed to be

offended by. :eyes:

[youspeakmylanguage]

129. Ad Hominem attacks...

...aren't valid or appreciated.

You may want to re-read my post. You'll see that I made no comment concerning you or what offends you. I was referring to what is generally accepted here at DU and what a poster can expect to read if he or she makes a comment that is considered to be "unacceptable" by a select group of feminists.

[peacebuzzard]

6. I feel it too.

[hlthe2b]

8. Wow, ZW, you always have a way of putting your finger (paw)

right on the issue. While so much has been written and discussed about the attack on gays and lesbians, and minorities by the "right," a much more insidious attack, with tremendous implications is well underway against women, and the issue is truly insecurity among these RW white males. Sadly, the attitudes are starting to "slop over" here...:mad:

[Gyre]

9. Doesn't help that young woman in our culture

generally seem to welcome being viewed as sex objects. Corporate whores who don't even realize they're being driven to the back of the cave.

Gyre

[Sugar Smack]

12. That would be the media representation of young

women in our culture and not actually, necessarily and truly the actual young women themselves.

[XemaSab]

44. Having recently gradumacated from college

there are WAY too many young women out there in tank tops, low riders, and thongs. It's not a recent phenominon, young women have been dressing like hoochies for a long time, but you got to wonder what they're thinking dressing like that.

It's all because they think they'll look hot and some guy will take notice, and it's volunteering yourself for objectification.

[thedailyshow]

47. I'm not sure if you've noticed this.....

It's summertime. Of course women will wear tank tops, low riders, and thongs. Does it make a woman a slut to wear that? I don't think so. And you know......there's the distinct possibility that a woman wears a tank top because it's hot outside. Ever think of that?

[XemaSab]

49. This is in Humboldt County

where it's 65 degrees all summer. Not hot.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

111. You're being disingenuous here

There are tank tops and there are tank tops.

There are comfortable summer shorts and pants, and there are shorts and pants that show off one's butt crack and...other stuff.

As one who is living through a 90-ish summer right now, I know that you don't need to wear a string bikini to be comfortable.

[bettyellen]

56. i don't buy that . a person doesn't need to know your favored dress code

to receive or deserve respect. that's the slippery slope of blaming women that put them in chadors.
tank tops are bad now? :rofl: i'm glad i don't live where people think like that.

[XemaSab]

59. Not in and of themselves

but with low riders and butt floss when it's not even 70 out, along with a snotload of makeup and bleached hair, it's saying that the young lady in question is trying to look like the media thinks young women should look, eg Britney.

[bettyellen]

60. the young lady in question is trying to look like her peers.

and that goes back as far as society does. just because britney is a dumb shit doesn't mean they are.
i don't agree with giving people an excuse to look down on people for any superficial reason and teenagers are always going to try to look like each other yet be younique and push the limits with grownups, nothing new or interesting about that. that's part of growing up.

[XemaSab]

61. Not really...

most women at Humboldt State dress like I do... Jeans, t-shirt, polar fleece, whatever. The girls who dress like hoochies are the ones who stick out.

[mike_c]

63. while I do NOT want to risk getting into THIS debate...

...I'll vouch for what Xema's saying about the HSU norm-- it's anything by Britney-esque. Now I'm outa here-- I'm much less likely to become collateral damage over in GD/P than in THIS thread!

[bettyellen]

64. not for nothing, but do you think labeling them "hootchies" is

right, or in the least bit enlightened? what is it you said explictitly that you're uptight about? shoulders in mild weather? for that they desreve to be labeled and thus objectified by other women?
tank tops desreve derision and disrespect since when? why? because they ain't dressed like you? that is sooo small minded, and clannish. i'd be one of those "hootchies" i guess, getting the hell out of humbolt to someplace where i'm not judged just because i don't look like everybody else.

[Finder]

65. for sure...

sounds like they dress like most other women their age. Reminds me of the attitude to mini-skirts back in the 60s and 70s.

[bettyellen]

69. or women who are bitter that they don't get as much

attention in polar fleece.
people are people, so what if some people like to dress in ways you don't? they should be treated less human? they're asking for it? that's what i'm hearing, and that ain't progressive, that's sour grapes.
it takes all kinds of people to make life interesting if you ask me. i'd be scared as a hell of any college campus where everybody dressed the same. bleeech.

[XemaSab]

72. It frustrates me,

as a feminist, to see young women dressing in ways that sets the cause of women's rights back 50 years. I want people to like and respect me for who I am, not because I have great tits and show them off to everyone.

I've gotten into it with guys I've dated before, "Why don't you dress like HER?" and that's the end of the relationship right there. I'm not a fucking object. Sorry bud. Go find someone else.

I dress the way I dress in part because when I dress differently and wear nicer clothes, men seem to get the idea that it's ok to grab me or ogle me or make rude comments, and I have to think that girls who wear skimpy outfits WANT that. But I don't.

And this makes me sexist?

Not wanting to be treated like a piece of meat makes me sexist?

[bettyellen]

78. judging women for wearing tanktops, calling them demaeaning names?

and saying they invite physical abuse? c'mon now, that's messed up.
i don't do anything to accomadate people who behave badly as you've described, grabbing oggling, i call em on it every single time, i demand respect. and they learn not all women who show skin are doing it for them soon enough. i'm not covering myself up for a few assholes when it's 80 degrees out. they have to learn to deal.
but like it or not, attraction is based partially on visuals, and yes, more so for men than it is for women. any honest guy will tell you that. nary a straight man can resist cleavage, and yeah it can be fustrating. but many of them can still treat you like a human being, and that's all that matters.
when you're naked sweetie, they're looking too, and if it doesn't bother me then, it ain't going to bother me at any other time. the other thing is, if a guy can't control himself when he sees a little skin and just discreetly appreciate it, hads to ogle and say shit like hootchie, do you really want him? i doubt either of us do. they are the ones doing the objectifying, and don't you forget it.
the answer is not to join men in putting down and devaluing our sisters by being looksist. that is just wrong.

[Chovexani]

85. And as a feminist it upsets me...

...to see feminists harboring judgmental attitudes towards other women's choice of dress. As if society doesn't do that enough already.

Feminists should be above this shit, but when push comes to shove it seems like we're always knee-deep in it. I don't wear thongs, but I do wear corsets and I've gotten into quite a few arguments from "feminist"* prudes questioning my loyalty to the movement because of it. I'll tell them what I'm telling you: I don't wear corsets because I am desperate for male attention or want my waist to be tinier (I'm not one of those crazy corset trainers), I wear corsets because they make me look hot and I like to look hot. Is that a fucking crime?

Jesus on a trailer hitch, don't we have real issues to be discussing?

--C.

*I put feminist in quotes in this instance, because IMHO feminism is about giving women the freedom to make their own choices, and anyone, anyone who tries to take that right away and yet has the gall to call him/herself a feminist doesn't deserve that honor.

[CTLawGuy]

87. I like your idea of feminism very much

it is about freedom from constraints on how one is "supposed" to act.

[XemaSab]

93. the other day

I got into it with someone in a GD thread, where this one soul was claiming that the media makes women wear uncomfortable shoes. I took the POV that women themselves choose to wear uncomfortable shoes. The OP totally disagreed, and it went back and forth until the thread was locked for other comments being made.

I think if you wear pointy shoes, that's your decision. It's not the problem of men or society or the media.

Similarly, women who wear skimpy clothes are free to do so.

But everyone judges other people based on what they wear. I dress expecting that other people will look at me and know what they're dealing with. Everything from the ball cap to the jeans to the doc martens I think reflects who I am.

I strongly suspect that when you wear a corset, you're trying to project an image of who you are. You think that wearing a corset says something about you, and you want other people to pick up on that.

When young women wear butt floss that is clearly visible several inches above the top of their pants, they're saying something about themselves. And my interpretation of what they're saying is that they have bought into a media image that objectifies women and they want young men to like them more for their ass than for their personality.

As a straight woman, I'm generally more interested in the personalities than the asses of women I come across, but if I see a young woman who is dressed like that, I'll probably be less likely to think I have anything intellectually in common with them than if I see a woman dressed in a more modest (or God help us, a more creative) style.

And lest I be accused of sexism again, I judge guys the same way. Guys who dress like frat boys (which is the male counterpart, IMHO), I'm less likely to strike up a conversation with.

I think this *is* a real issue that is worth discussing. Clearly, there's a variety of opinion here.

[bettyellen]

99. thanks, you said it better than i could.

[CTLawGuy]

86. what happened to feminism....

being about giving women the same freedom to express themselves as men?

Seems we have a spat here between the libertarian feminist philosophy and the radical feminist philosophy.

[Finder]

91. sub-labeling just makes it more confusing.lol

I think the divide is more about self-esteem and body image from what I can tell. Feminism isn't about what you wear or do in private, it is about equality, period. Radical, libertarian, liberal, conservative are just attributes of individual feminists.

Feminism is still thriving and hasn't changed.

[CTLawGuy]

92. well technically its about advancing the interests of women

here's what I conceive of as the difference between a feminist and a radical feminist.

feminist: women can do with their bodies as they choose and I have no right to question them.

Radical feminist: women can do with their bodies as they choose, as long as I approve of what they do.

Radical feminists see women as a singular moral entity (men too, albeit a different entity) whereas normal feminists are concerned about womens rights as individuals.

thus when one woman wears revealing clothes, the feminist sees her as making her own choice about how to express herself and how to display her body (or not), the radical feminist sees her as degrading the moral standing of the collective.

Same thing with women who choose not to have careers, but instead to stay home and raise a family. That upsets many radical feminists because they believe that choice validates the sexist paradigm they are trying to break down. Ordinary feminists see that as a woman making a rational choice that suits her. They are happy that she is able to choose a career if she wanted to (as many women do). that choice is what they want.

[Finder]

103. I agree 100%

but I still don't think all rad fems are as radical about censoring words and clothing and life choices like it appears at times.

[Misunderestimator]

119. You and some notable others keep saying RADICAL feminists...

Where are these radical feminists? Are they here on this board, do you think? Why use the word radical? The RW uses it to describe feminists across the board. Why do you use it?

[sendero]

90. No...

... telling other people how to dress or how to see themselves or who to be, that doesn't make you sexist but it does make you someone whose opinion I do not value.

[lukasahero]

121. No one WANTS to be ogled or groped.

Your comment is sexist, period. You are free to wear what you like, free to think whatever you want about the appropriateness of someone else's attire but you are being sexist when you suggest a woman ever wants to be groped etc. because of the clothing she wears. You make it her fault - i.e. - a sexist positioning of the act as if a man "can't help himself from grabbing her" when she "puts it out there for him". WTF?

[XemaSab]

124. I disagree

I think that when I woman wears a thong so that it's sticking up above her pants, she wants to be ogled.

It's that simple.

[XemaSab]

66. I was originally agreeing with post 9

"Doesn't help that young woman in our culture generally seem to welcome being viewed as sex objects. Corporate whores who don't even realize they're being driven to the back of the cave."

I wasn't sure of another word to use other than hoochie to describe the look. Perhaps "I am dressed like this because I want to be objectified" would be a fairer description....

[bettyellen]

67. so wearing a tank top = wanting to be objectified.

if you don't realize how sexist that is, i can't help you.
have fun with your ploar fleece lemmings all smug and looking down on those who don't look like you.

[XemaSab]

71. wearing a tank top when it's under 70 degrees=

wanting to be objectified, yes indeed.

What, you don't think a single woman has ever consciously dressed so that she would be objectified?

[Finder]

73. I wear tanks all through winter, myself...

with a blazer over it mostly. I never thought of tank tops as being slutty or inviting objectification though.

[bettyellen]

75. i do too, my office is 78 degrees in the winter. i have a million layers

on. but then again, i'm not ashamed of my body.
if someone treats me like an object, i set em straight. no need for me to wear protective armour just because they treat women poorly. i don't go out of my way to feel shame or accomodate assholes. :D

[XemaSab]

88. it's not tank tops per se

so much as the whole look....

sorry, if I can see butt floss, that's over the line.

[bettyellen]

100. i think it's gross myself....

but i'm smart enough to know it says little about a person's true character.
so i would withdraw judgement until i actually knew something about the person.

[bettyellen]

74. people allow themselves to be objectified or they don't

the clothes don't matter much, it's what kind of strength as a person you have.
i've known women who dressed like librarians that allowed themselves to be treated like servants, and incredibly empowed women not afraid to show cleavage. there's a lot more to people thatn image, although you've decided otherwise. first there were too many of these women, now they're a rarity in your school, and now you'd like to tell us what temperature is acceptable. good god, i can't listen to this repressive judgemental bullshit anymore.
if you favor your own kind, good for you, stick with them and don't venture into the big city where others norms might clash with your own. it's a big world, lots of tank tops out there, omigod, you might see some dirty cleavage or something!

[XemaSab]

95. You're perfectly welcome

to put me on ignore if you don't like my opinions.

:-)

[bettyellen]

98. well, i do think it's worthwhile discussing

but you said this is rooted in some negative experience with men for you. and instead of taking it out on the men, you marginalise the women you think they might prefer. that's a common catty reaction, and it perpetuates the whore/ virgin thing saying some women invite abuse.
you don't know those women, some of them have a lot more going on than you're willing to see. i'm not saying you need to embrace the look yourself, but it's xenophobic to think women who dress like you are somehow better, and covering up and dressing sexless is the answer to coping with men in society. that's how things used to be, before women worked outside the home, and it didn't get us anywhere. not taking shit from people who are willing to pre-judge you gets you somewhere, bucking under and feeling everyone should look sexless is giving people permission to treat people in skirts as less than human. not acceptable.

[Dora]

122. It's not always catty to say, "Woman, you look...

...like a hoochie mama tonight."

If a woman is dressed like a hoochie mama, then I should be allowed to say she looks like a hoochie mama.

Speaking as a hoochie mama myself.

[DerekG]

84. "Polar fleece lemmings?"

Spare me. Most young women on campus do, in fact, wear revealing clothes. It's the style, and following said trend is indicative of lemming-like behavior. If anything, the "polar fleece" crowd are the non-conformists.

And why should I be chided for dressing conservatively (dress shirt/jeans) and finding this same quality attractive in women? Does it bother you that I'm a male who finds modesty laudable?

My apologies, for not bowing to the MTV ethos.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

13. I agree. I also think that the fact that some young women buy into ..

this, given a vulnerable period brouth on by their immaturity and naivete' is a convenient means of manipulating women as they emerge into the most productive and potentially influential period of their lives.

[Misunderestimator]

14. I love the smell of men supporting women in the morning!

Thanks, ZW... :loveya:

[VelmaD]

15. Yup yup...

Couldn't agree more. I've always kept a running list of posters who made egregiously sexist comments. A list of the "good guys" may be in order. :)

[catzies]

29. So do I, Velma

It's called my ignore list. And it usually ends up coresponding w/the tombstoned, as I found once when managing my list. Coincidence? :D

[Finder]

40. The famous "hit list"?

I think it is better to agree to disagree on some issues or educate those that may need educating rather than applying the "scarlet letter."

Personalities aside, there is too much to do for us to dwell on some things.

[Misunderestimator]

43. It is VERY important to recognize and remember how people behave.

In life, and online.

How is an ignore list like applying a scarlet letter anyway? :shrug:

[Finder]

51. I didn't mean the ignore list.

I was just being snarky and responding to the comment about keeping a list of those perceived to be sexists.

[Misunderestimator]

52. Oh, you responded to the ignore list post... as for the sexist list, I ...

definitely keep one of those. Definitely! VERY important to remember who you are dealing with. I hated to get blind-sided twice.

[Finder]

53. Did not.

lol

this felt like an elementary school post.lol

[Misunderestimator]

76. Perhaps I mistook you for responding to the other post, but...

it doesn't change that it's a good idea to remember who the sexist people are.

And, yes, it does feel that way.

[VelmaD]

45. I have no one on ignore...

I just remember the people that express sexist views.

[CTLawGuy]

89. wow

how Nixonian of you! An "enemies list"!

[progmom]

101. it's funny

i rarely notice you posting unless it's defending sexism. weird. :shrug:

[CTLawGuy]

110. where do I defend sexism

or is that a standard boilerplate attack?

note, hang out in GD politics more often....

[progmom]

113. ok - i will be more specific

the only time i notice you is when there is a thread about sexism, and you jump in to insult the women who object to sexist behavior.

[CTLawGuy]

117. ah ok

thats a little more reasonable, but it's still not quite accurate.

I'm challenging radical feminist ideas because I believe many of them are wrong, and harmful to feminism in general. that may be what you are thinking of.

I had my first real encounter with the radical feminists online when I posted a poll in the "Lounge" on another LW political site about which actresses people thought were most attractive.

NOT hottest,
NOT those who you'd like to "bang"
NOT even those who are best looking,

just "attractive".

and sure enough, the radical feminists got all bent out of shape over it, calling it sexist, and making assumptions that I was holding a "beauty contest". (Didn't take into consideration that "attractive" implies more than physical.)

That started a week-long flamewar about sexsim.

In real life, I got called a sexist because I said "marriage isnt necessarily sexist." (note, person was AGAINST gay marriage for this reason)

Hence I don't take radical feminism very seriously.

Where it is wrong, and out of perspective, I will point it out.

If you want to put me on your Nixon enemies list, then fine.

[Misunderestimator]

118. You post a sexist poll objectifying women on a LW political site

and you're surprised that feminists called it sexist.

That's RADICAL FEMINISM to you?

For what it's worth, I've never seen YOU point out sexism here, ever. So, I guess it's your position that there is no sexism here.

:rofl:

[Finder]

uh oh...you seem to be on the list.lol

run...;)

[CTLawGuy]

109. I think I just made sure I got on the list

but seriously geez...

[progmom]

114. didn't you used to post in the feminist group?

what was that - some kind of a joke for you?

[Bunny]

120. Don't know if it was a joke for her, but it sure was a joke for a lot of

others! :rofl:

[GOPisEvil]

16. How hard is it to view another human as your equal?

Seriously, how fucking hard is that?

[Left Is Write]

18. For some people, very hard.

I wish it weren't so.

[GOPisEvil]

21. I don't get it. I really don't.

Even people with whom I disagree deserve the most basic respect.

Sigh...

[Left Is Write]

24. I don't get it either.

Having felt some subtle and not-so-subtle sexism when I was still out in the working world, it seems awful that we haven't come further.

[GOPisEvil]

26. I will say that my time here at DU has made me more aware.

Some "stealth" sexism and racism used to pass me by. I think I'm better at spotting it now.

[VelmaD]

19. If you ever figure out the answer to that...

and how to "fix" it...I'll nominate you for a Nobel prize. Swear to gawd.

I've been contemplating this topic in a round about way all weekend...my only conclusion so far is that "people suck".

[Bat Boy]

17. Ain't a whole lot better in the afternoon or evening.

We needs us some air freshener.

[no name no slogan]

27. Thanks for opening the window ZW

the fresh air of truth is a welcome relief! :toast:

[Susang]

30. I haven't been around much lately

What did I miss now? :shrug:

[ltfranklin]

31. It's only natural...

Now that we can see Democracy blossoming in Iraq, it's only natural to want the female citizens of our own democracy to enjoy the same freedoms that are now being given to their women.

Now, excuse me as I go wollop myself on the head with an empty 2-liter plastic bottle many many times for even thinking of this.

[Mizmoon]

32. I have been offended by some porn threads

I think the issue of porn gets itchy because some of us lean towords radical feminism which despises porn (like me) and the progressive idea that it's simpy freedom of speech.

Any thoughts?

[VelmaD]

34. This is a topic where I feel highly qualified...

to wade in. I am a feminist. I also edit gay porn as a side-job and I am very pro-erotica and pro-sex.

I do have a problem with some of the mainstream porn out there. I think the depiction of "lesbians" that is aimed at straight men is ridiculous and demeaning. I think a lot of the het porn out there depicts women as vacuous and merely vessels for men's enjoyment. And I think a lot of the people of both genders don't look like they're having fun. That's my big peeve...I'm all for sex, even really wild stuff, as long as everyone is there consesually. When people look like they're bored or drugged up or just not enjoying what's being done to them...it just does nothing for me. Sex should be FUN. :)

Oh, and men in porn who are having sex with their socks on. That bugs the hell outta me. ;)

[no name no slogan]

35. i always wondered about that....

i mean, seriously. is it really that much extra work to take your socks off, for fscks sake? :wtf:

[VelmaD]

37. And they leave their damn watch on...

If I was getting into bed with a guy and he didn't take his fucking watch off...I might have to kick him to the curb. Drives me nuts because they go to all this trouble to try to make the women "appealing"...makeup and lingerie and fucking high heels in bed (don't get me started about THAT shit)...and then they have a guy wearing a watch and socks. ARGH!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

112. Wait a minute--I sleep with a watch on

:shrug:

It would seem silly to take it off for...that purpose.

At least I've never done the Jane Fonda in Klute routine with it. :-)

[no name no slogan]

123. the only thing i'd leave on was my ring

...back when i was married, so that was my excuse.

i always wondered about that, too.... was he timing himself, going for a new land speed record, endurance test, :wtf:? dammit i need some new hobbies...

[Left Is Write]

36. I had NO idea people even DID stuff like that in porn!

SOCKS? That's so wrong. ;)

[GOPisEvil]

38. Yeah, you'd think that would ruin your traction.

:silly:

[ulysses]

82. ok, I had that same thought.

:yoiks:

[ghostsofgiants]

48. Anytime anyone leaves arbitrary articles of clothing on in porn...

It's just ridiculous. It's usually footwear though. Guys with socks liek you said, or women with high heels. Always found that odd.

And you should get into writing/directing/producing instead of just editing. Porn is boring as hell most of the time because of what you just described.

On a side note: What is everyone talking about? I missed another jackass thread while I was gone?

[VelmaD]

54. I'm not interested in writing/directing/producing.

I only edit because my best friend runs an online press for gay erotica. She asked me to edit and I said yes. You'd be amazed how my consumption of porn for personal enjoyment has declined now that I read so much of it as "work".

[ghostsofgiants]

55. Haha, that makes sense really

But since you're kind of in the industry...pass the word along that they need to take off their damn footwear, haha.

[VelmaD]

57. I wouldn't say I'm "in the industry"...

I edit homoerotic novels for an internet press. The people who film cheesy het porn...I got no contacts with them. Sorry. :shrug:

[ghostsofgiants]

58. Haha, drat!

The footwear scourge will live on.

[WCGreen]

68. YEa what is up with that.....

Why can't they just strp out of their shoes....

No more porn for me...

It's like watching a national geographic special on sex

[name not needed]

79. You could always find the studio

and cut their feet off.

[ghostsofgiants]

81. Dude, you're a goddamn visionary

[Kipling]

115. Hey!

I lost my virginity wearing socks (on my feet). It's easily forgotten in the heat of the moment.
And, BTW, "pro-sex"? I think any opposition there has long ago become extinct, for obvious reasons.

[youspeakmylanguage]

128. "And when they came for me..."

"First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out;
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out;
Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoller, 1892-1984

Regardless of your personal opinions of "het porn", you should be aware that those that would purge the porn industry from this country aren't going to stop after "cleansing" the heterosexual hedonists of the San Fernando Valley. They'll be coming for you and your friend next.

[Finder]

39. only some radical feminists...

not all by any means. I personally see the anti-porn movement as a form of an anti-choice movement. All feminists are against exploitation and the divide weakens us as a force against sexual exploitation in general.

My 2 cents.

[applegrove]

33. So insecure & toddlerlike that they need complete control over the

other or they freak out and attack. Yes many policies of the neocons are masoginistic.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. Hey I'm gonna shut up about misogyny and racism

before I get permanently silenced

[jonnyblitz]

77. no shit...

I am at the point where i dont give a fuck anymore. though. seriously...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

80. I pretty much have the emails and phone numbers of anyone

worth staying in touch with at this point.
When sports is more important than race issues on a progressive board,, perhaps I should shut up and let it implode.

[jonnyblitz]

83. yup

same with me re phone numbers and email addresses. I could go on..but i won't although perhaps I will in a PM to you later on when I am in a mood for venting and typing lengthy notes..

[skygazer]

42. Yeah, I think it is

I find myself shouting at the computer a lot more lately. ~sigh~

Thanks for pointing it out - we need men like you. :loveya:

[xmas74]

46. I been in and out sporadically.

I've missed what might have happened this weekend. Is it worse than it was a few weeks ago?
(btw-I didn't have to witness it here today. I got all that I needed when I clocked in at work this morning).

[matcom]

50. kissing up are we?

:eyes:

sorry. haven't been on most of the weekend but is this a type of 'slinker-reaction' or is this legit?

that word is thrown around more than any other here (as you well know) so my question (which maybe harsh) i feel is legit

thanks for the clarification :hi:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

70. I hope people do not take my *Manly* threads hard. They are

meant with a sense of humor and ridicule towards machismo.

[johnnie]

94. Where?

I saw two locked threads, but it doesn't seem anymore sexist as any other time. It's been getting bad for a few months now, but the problem is, some stupid thread starts as sexist, and then there are a load of threads calling out the one thread.
To be honest, there has been a lot more bashing of men then women here lately. It has become so bad that I don't like coming into the lounge as much as I used to.

[BlueIris]

97. It gets worse everytime I'm on this board.

And, y'all? That's not a nice feeling.

[WindRavenX]

102. it's getting worse

Sometimes I just want to take a flame thrower to the collective Y chromosome x(

[XemaSab]

105. Well sometimes I feel like

taking a flame thrower to the X chromosome... ALL the X chromosomes.

Stupid chromosomes. :-)

[WindRavenX]

106. I'm sick of dealing with men living in the 50's

I can't tell you how disgusted I am with the men of my generation, which, I can say from experience, seem to be having that fucked up desire for women from the 50's.
Fuck that noise.

[XemaSab]

107. I hear ya

Sometimes in my town I feel like I'm surrounded by people from the 1850's and lemme tell ya... it ain't pretty.

[WindRavenX]

108. and it seems to be spreading

"Hey! Woman! BARE ME CANON FODDER!" x( x(

Wake me up when real men are around :cry:

[Kipling]

116. I wouldn't say it's getting worse.

The pace of reform may have slowed, but feminism is gradually seeping into every little corner. Give it time. I can't really speak for other countries, but around here the wage gap is closing, helped by ceaseless EU initiatives, we've had a female head of state (unfortunately), and the collective mind is slowly wrapping itself around the thought of total equality. Globalism being what it is, I expect it's the same worldwide. It may be infuriating waiting for the last creases of chauvanism to be ironed out, but pushing the issue much harder risks a nasty backlash.

[tarkus]

104. My women, lasagna, cheating thread was a quote from Clerks

So if that is making anyone mad I am sorry. I don't agree with the quote, but it is memorable.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

130. Locking.

Locking.