I need career advice.

[R. A. Fuqua]

As I have mentioned before, I am stuck in a job where I am not entirely happy. I have been looking, and interviewed for a dream job a while back (the DUer's gave me great advice). There are some contract problems at the dream job--when they get things worked out they intend to make me an offer but it will probably be 6 months or so.

The problem is the job that I am currently working. My boss is a SNAKE. I work long hard hours and I work hard. I do my best to do as good a job as I can at EVERY task.

My boss has never complained about anything to my face (I don't see how she could possibly have any reason to complain--I am only being honest when I tell you that I am a great employee). However, she complains and denigrates EVERY employee behind their back, and last week I found out that she has done the same to me--to the office manager and his right hand man. Fortunately both of them have had their own chances to observe my work performance--so they did not believe her lies that I am a complete slacker.

But I think they still believed her lies to some extent---they realize that I work well for them--but they think I might not be giving her all that I am capable of.

What should I do? My performace review is coming up--and the other managers where I work think highly of me. I have been considering telling them (without badmouthing her) simply that the two of us are not compatible working together and that I do not want this person as my supervisor anymore. I will stay on if I can be moved to work with someone else as my direct supervisor, otherwise, I will be looking for another job. (I have been doing this anyway--but no need to tell them that.).

What do you think? Please give me some advice--I am being careful--because I know that once I open my mouth I won't be able to take back what I say....

[nookiemonster]

1. Only one quick word of advice

Never, and I mean never, burn bridges.

[R. A. Fuqua]

2. would it burn the bridge to

say that we are not compatible? I am willing to stay on if I do not work directly under her.

[AlGore-08.com]

14. You get to pick your superior?

There are very, very few jobs where the subordinate gets to chose their boss. What kind of job is this?

If you're going to say "I'm willing to stay if she's not my boss any more", you better be prepared to quit on the spot. 'Cause odds are they're not going to change your boss for you. And if you don't quit after making that demand, you've just made yourself look like (as we say in my family) a great big whiny baby doing the potty dance.

Don't issue ultimatums unless you're ready to carry them out.

[R. A. Fuqua]

16. read my post below.

my hours are divided between a variety of projects and bosses. I spend less then half of my time working for this particular person.

It would be quite easy for the office manager to have one of the other people I do work for serve as my supervisor.

I don't know what kind of job you have--but the consulting world is an extremely flexible one. I am a highly educated professional with an advanced degree from a very prestigious university--and have not had a problem getting a job--although I still do not have exactly the one that I want to have.

I NEVER complain at work---NEVER EVER EVER and I do not intend to start now. I do not think anyone is going to accuse me of being on the "pitty pot".

[madeline_con]

3. If your performance review is negative...

due to anything she's said, demand documentation of anything you supposedly haven't done as expected.

She sounds like a vindictive, back-biting bitch. Every office has at least one.

If the other managers think highly of you, they've got her number, I'm sure.

[R. A. Fuqua]

4. yes--that is very good advice.

they do think highly of me (there are 3 other people in the office who are more senior than her--and all of them know my work and think highly of me).

They also know how she is---one guy told me the other day--"she just can't take pressure" they all know she gets a little buggy under pressure.

So--I should wait for the review and see what happens. That is good advice--I was thinking about being proactive--but my review will be Aug 29th so it is not very long...

[nookiemonster]

6. It is great advice.

Just hold out until you get your review. Any ammunition you will need will stem from that. She will be on the defensive.

The only thing I would do in the interim would be to document every damn thing that you do. Can't hurt.

[R. A. Fuqua]

8. I am--I am also documenting

what I can of what has come back to me (the nasty rumors about me and others).

I don't know if anyone remembers this--but back when I was interviewing for my dream job I told you all that I was worried that my supervisor might try to sabatoge me behind my back (even though she has never complained about anything to my face) well--this is the person that I was talking about.

I have never had such problems before--this poor woman is so insecure that she does not TRUST her employees--and she undermines us at every chance. Yet she does have a good heart, but she is impossible to work for. I truly do not hate her--but I do not think that I can stand working for her much longer.

Oh---and naturally her and her hubbie are HUGE freepers too. There car is covered in Bush bumper stickers--I think the election was when she really started hated me--I saw their car and STARED at all the bumper stickers--particularly a huge "Sportsman for Bush" sign. She caught me staring and I tried to play it off by saying--oh--I didn't know you were a sportsman.....she never was great to work for--but she REALLY treated me bad after that....

I am so glad I can come here for advise.

[nookiemonster]

10. Well, I can directly relate to your dilemna.

Our circumstances are similar and I left 45 days ago (after 10 years). I didn't make a fuss and even shaked the president's hand before I left. I miss my co-worker friends but I stay in contact daily.

My super was like yours. Nice person, but a crappy boss. She would take credit for great things her subs were doing, but disown any claim if a shitstorm was brewing.

Some folks just aren't cut out to be supervisors, plain and simple.

As far as her political affiliation, I have no idea. I can tell you that a large chunk of our company was intimately involved with that crazy "Focus on the Family" bullshit.

Don't miss it much.

[R. A. Fuqua]

12. I feel for you.

Thanks for the empathy--it is good to know someone else who went through something similar and got through it.

I think this person really does not know how to be a manager--she had no education and no experience--she just ended up having the right contacts and being in the right place at the right time. She has no idea how to manage people to get the best out of them.

(I really don't have much management experience either--but I have observed so many people that I at least know a little bit about how it should NOT be done.)

[MichiganVote]

5. If there is neg. stuff from her, refuse to sign the perform. eval. w/o

documentation. Personally, I never comment about lacking work compatibility with anyone. That makes you 50% responsible for fixing the issues when in fact the other party may be 100% of the problem. As such, you can only appear 50% effective.

I prefer to ask what it is they need that I'm not providing and then offer what I need. When it all goes to hell in a hand basket b/c the other party is a jerk, you still look cooperative. Most of the time employers know that the one you find hard to deal with is a problem but they may note do anything about it.

[R. A. Fuqua]

7. you are brilliant!!!

thank you so so much!!!

I will not use the compatibility thing--it does make it seem half my fault! I had not even realized. I am going 99% of the way--but I can't do the whole 100--she has to meet me somewhere.

I am going to do exactly as you say.

It is terribly frustrating to me--and I don't think she is a bad person at heart--but she caves under deadlines and such and she runs EVERYONE down behind their backs.

The silver lining is--everyone has her number.

And I have taken the high road--I NEVER talk bad about her behind her back (this is the first time and it is kind of anonymous--so I won't count it).

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. Long time no see, my dear R. A. Fuqua....

Just wanted to stop in and say hi, and also to say that I have no additional good advice for you...

except to take what has already been offered upthread!

And hang in there, baby...relief is coming, albeit slowly...

Good to see you posting!

:hi:

[R. A. Fuqua]

13. thanks!

I have been stressed out lately at work--and just don't feel like doing much of anything when I get home.

Hopefully the other job will come through eventually--and I will make it through this....

I love seeing my friends here! It cheers me up! I will be ready to face the day tomorrow now!

[AlGore-08.com]

11. What do you hope to accomplish by complaining about your relationship?

Suppose you do discuss your boss's gossiping to her superiors, what will happen next? Unless your boss' behavior legally constitutes harassment (or unfortunately, even if it does constitute harassment), what they'll do is as ask you both to work out your problems, maybe by sending you to HR. So you're going to have to spend time with a moderator talking about what you dislike about her - - and what she dislikes about you. And you're both going to have to own up to flaws and both have to commit to changing your behavior in some way.

If you think that's going to change her behavior, and make your work environment better, it might be worth it. But keep in mind that if she's an immature person, this might make your working relationship even more difficult.

Also keep in mind that the perception in business culture is that people who complain about interpersonal problems are not good candidates for promotion. The higher you go in a company, the more people you have to work for and with, and the greater the chance that you'll meet people you just can't stand. People who act on those conflicts are a drag on any business, as you see yourself from your boss's gossiping and backbiting.

My advice would be to not bring it up (unless her behavior constitutes harassment). If your performance review is bad, complaining about your boss is probably going to look like you can't accept criticism without blaming someone else. If it ends up being a positive review, it looks even worse to start ragging on your boss.

And you don't have another job yet - - this dream job might not materialize, and then you'd be stuck working for this "snake" who knows you think she's a "snake". Unless she's harassing you, don't complain to her boss about it.

And here's another piece of advice, since I don't know either of you. It's possible your boss could gossip and complain about you behind your back, and still have it inside herself to give you an honest performance review. If the review isn't 100% laudatory, you should still try to come away from it learning something to make you a better employee. At the very least, you'll learn what it is she thinks you need to improve - - and since everybody can improve, see if you can't improve in that/those area(s).

If you have legitimate concerns about the work itself - - not "my boss is a b*tch" but "I feel like I could use more training on SAP" or "I'm spending about an hour a day filing the exact same document that Jamie spends an hour a day filing, is there some way we can avoid this duplication of effort?" etc. - - bring it up during the performance review.

Always try to focus on the work, not the personalities (unless, of course, she's harassing you).

[R. A. Fuqua]

15. I never intended to do the "this person is a

bitch" routine.

I do consulting--and although she is officially listed as my supervisor, I actually divide my time between 4 different projects. I only work for this particular person about 14 hours a week (that is how fortunately others in the office know I perform well), BUT she is the person who I report directly to and I would like for that to be changed.

I was originally planning to simply ask that she no longer be my direct supervisor. To tell you the truth--I bring a lot to the office, and I think that if I told the office manager that I wanted to devote more time to project x and less time to project y--and thus work more closely with supervisor z instead of with supervisor witch--well I actually think that it could be worked out quite easily, without burning bridges or hurting feelings. True--she may suspect that I was unhappy working for her--but as long as I continue to do my job, keep my mouth shut and treat her with respect I doubt I would have a problem.

I have never bad mouthed HER (except here on DU) and I never will at work. It was never my intention to do so.

I did intend originally to state that my personality might fit in better with a change--however I was advised not to say this--and I see the wisdom in that.

[AlGore-08.com]

23. LOL this all is a good example of the pitfalls of internet communication

Too often there's no context, at least to start with.

Sorry if my posts have rubbed you the wrong way, but I hope you can see how calling her your "boss" might leave folks with the impressin that you're working directly under her 9 to 5 - - and posting "my boss is a SNAKE!" might lead somebody to imagine a poster who would walking to a performance review and vent themselves out of a job.

Pax.

[R. A. Fuqua]

18. I just wanted to address something you said--

"Suppose you do discuss your boss's gossiping to her superiors, what will happen next?"

Actually the reason that I know about her backbiting is because THE BOSSES in my office have come to ME with it.

After all--she did it behind my back. The only reason that I even found out was because the number 2 in the office---he is the right hand man to the office manager--was concerned and upset when she started badmouthing me in a meeting of the project managers. He told me everything she had said when the meeting was over. Since then--he has spoken to her. She could not give him anything specific where she was unhappy--just that she is stressed out and that she is unhappy with her "perception" of me.

They have also tried to soothe me--by saying that she is cracking under pressure etc. I have not responded to the criticism of her. As much as possible I just say that I am doing my best and will continue to do my best.

But--it is the two top ranking people in the office who brought the situation to my attention, they are aware, and they are on my side. Now--that does not mean that they would get rid of her or anything like that (I don't even want that), but I feel quite sure that they are willing to do whatever they have to do to keep me and to keep me happy. I want to handle the situation with tact and grace--but I know that they WILL want to do what they can to keep me happy. I have quite specialized skills, I am not a drama queen, and I am extremely valuable to the people who I work for.

[kahleefornia]

17. no good solution to this

I've been there a few times. No matter how diplomatic you are about discussing her, and how much everyone else knows she's the problem, you'll still look like a complainer. And she won't change.

This is a situation that calls for "management" - in the dog training world, this just means that you realize your dog is a dog and is going to chew your shoes no matter what you do - so you have to keep your shoes off the floor.

Make your job more bearable in the next few months it takes to get a new job. You can slack off a little - I've found that it takes a LOT of slacking to actually get fired (I've never been fired). Take it easy, while still doing your job to a satisfactory degree. Then use your extra free time to relax and realize that this problem isn't as big a part of your life as it seems.

There's nothing you can do to get her to change or be fired, short of finding out she's defrauding the company or running a porn site from the company server. It's not fair, but if you can't put up with it, you will be the one who has to leave, for your own sake.

Very frustrating how bad employees get rewarded, just because no one wants to do anything about them, huh? Meanwhile, the good workers have to fend for themselves.

[R. A. Fuqua]

19. I like the dog training analogy.

yes--I have already decided that my future does not lie with this company, so I probably would do well to just sit back relax and "let it ride" like the poker players say.

I guess it is too much to hope that she would run a porn site from the company server.....

[SheilaT]

20. Could you make the case

that someone else would be a better supervisor since you actually do more work for that someone else? If you're only working with Ms Difficult 14 hours per week, that's 36 hours or so spent with other supervisors. Maybe that would be a more effective way to change bosses. But it entirely in a positive light -- why you should report to someone else -- rather than in a negative one -- why you shouldn't report to your current boss.

Good luck! Difficult supervisors are awful. I actually got fired from an internship position earlier this year. The person I was interning for was beyond difficult -- she was described as a bitch by her own administrative assistant. I would not have continued working for that woman if it had been a full-time paid job, but needed the internship credit for the program I'm in at a local college. Luckily, I had another internship also happening and just increased those hours and so got my credit.

The workplace can be nasty at times.

[R. A. Fuqua]

25. yes--I think this

argument may prove to be my way out.

It is a shame that so many people have had bad work experiences.

I always put a lot of effort into trying to have good interpersonal relationships with everyone that I deal with--so I feel very badly that I have not been able to get anywhere with this particular person.

If I had trouble with lots of other people, I would think long and hard about what was going on. But--this person is an anomoly--the worst I have ever experienced--and I hope that I can get out and never have such a bad situation again.

hugs for everyone else who has suffered at work.

I had a nightmare about her last night, I dreamed she read my posting here (in my nightmare she was here as a trouble causing freeper--of course) and she figured out it was me (very unlikely--I gave no identifying details)and she really came after me. I was very glad to wake up!

[barb162]

21. How about something along these lines:

Go to the managers you like the best and tell the manager that you find his work really interesting and leave the snake COMPLETELY out of the conversation. Ask if he thinks it's workable to be your supervisor and that you would like to work for him full-time. Something to the effect that you think you do your best work when you work with him, whatever, but never mention the compatibility issue.

If you get a mediocre review, make sure you diplomatically contest every single bad point and hand in a copy of that to HR so it is in your permanent file.

I worked for a snake for 13 years. They fuck with your brain, they sabotage, they are sociopaths, they are the worst.

[R. A. Fuqua]

24. thanks for the empathy and

advice. I like what you had to say--I am going to incorporate all these ideas--and I will tell you all how it goes!

[Droopy]

22. Fuck it

you are only going to be there for another 6 months. I'd live with it until you get the other offer.