My fundie mother-in-law implied that I am neglecting my kids because

[mcctatas]

I don't take my children to church. She said that I am responsible for their emotional, physical and SPIRITUAL well-being, and being negligent in any of those areas constitutes poor parenting. My husband said to just ignore her because "she's been batshit crazy for 30 years", and I really find her more amusing than insulting, but I feel like this deserves some kind of response. The problem is that I was raised Catholic, but I really don't want my children to be indoctrinated into the Catholic faith, and my husband was raised fundie (he somehow survived unscathed), I am considering the Unitarians or a Congregational Church, or maybe I should just blow it off altogether. Help!!!!!!

[KitchenWitch]

1. Both of those options are good

But will never satisfy your fundie MIL...Congregationalists have a "let's find God together" sort of attitude, where the Unitarians seem to have a "we are not concerned with what you believe, as long as you are a good citizen" doctrine.

[Spinzonner]

2. Say "thank you, mom"

and proceed to do what you think is best for your kids.

Why provoke or participate in a unproductive, disruptive argument ?

[mcctatas]

8. You're probably right...

I am not anti-God, and my kids are wonderful, happy, socially responsible people. Why screw it all up with indoctrination into a particular school of thought.

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. How about asking the kids?

nt

[lpbk2713]

4. Freedom of religion also means freedom *from* religion.

You don't have to raise your kids by anyone else's standards but your own.

[Not_Giving_Up]

5. My fundie parents give me the same speech

"These children need church"

No, really they don't. They can make that decision when they're old enough to comprehend what they are deciding on.

[burrowowl]

6. Unitarians

are good or the Quakers, big on peace.
Kids do need something in a community and these are not bad choices at all.
I had 11 years of Catholic education, for which I thank DOG, it gave me the tools: logic, analysis, etc. to fight the idiocy reigning in the church. I did walk out when a gitar thingy was played instead of Ubi caritas, Deus ibi est. Because the 2 commandments are: Love God with your whole heart and soul and Love thy neighbor as thyself. Jesus summed it up.
I almost had hope with Liberation Theology but Benny XVI has screwd that up.

[mcctatas]

11. I feel your pain...

I was kicking around the idea of going "back to the fold" for awhile under PJPII, but when Herr Benedict got the papal nod...No way.

[burrowowl]

17. No! Never!

Until we get another John XXIII!
JP II and Opus Dei plant and he had to the nerve to canonize the facsist insane founder!

[mcctatas]

21. True, JPII did alot of damage to liberation theology, but I had never

even heard of Opus Dei until very recently...maybe I was bewitched by the pope mobile?

[burrowowl]

24. Bewitched is not the word

I think it is obnebulated!
Spell check doesn't reconize, but obneblulate means to before or make unclear!
Love spell checkers: No Webster's Unabridged or Old Oxford's Dictionary of the English Language!

[Felix Mala]

53. My liberal friends embraced either Unitarian or Quaker churches

just so their children could have some experiences making a place for themselves in a moral community. I gues they wanted their children to know that morality is bigger than just mom and dad tell you what's good and bad.

[Wapsie B]

7. Whatever you do, if it's not her idea of Chrisitanity

it won't be good enough for her. Just blow it off and live your own life. Unitarians would be devil worshippers in her book but who cares? It's you life and your spirituality. Not hers.

[Momgonepostal]

55. Good point!

Would grandma really think a church she dislikes is preferable to no church? I doubt it.

It would be funny to tell her you're thinking about becoming Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons or something to see her reaction.

[Wapsie B]

60. Or Wiccan.

Then see what happens.

[bliss_eternal]

9. What a load.

I agree with the above poster--there's nothing you could do that would satisfy this woman. So do whatever is best for you and your children in YOUR eyes (and husband's of course).

[WatchWhatISay]

10. Apparently she took her son to church

But it didn't take real well. So how is she the expert?

[enigmatic]

12. Tell her to stuff it

If you can't do that, I'd ignore her. I despise people like your Mother-In-Law; I'm so sorry you have to deal w/ her..

[WeRQ4U]

13. Tell her that being spiritual does not necessaritly mean "going to church"

I'm Lutheran but I only go because I like my pastor. He talks about the metaphorical meanings of biblical passages. When he's not preaching, I don't go. Going to church, just to go, is kind of antithetical anyway.

[WCGreen]

14. Tell he you are leaning toward the mystic Jewish Cults

ala Madonna, your roll model.....

Shalom!

[mcctatas]

16. Better yet, maybe I'll tell her that when I saw Tom Cruise on Oprah...

(she loooooves Oprah), I started looking into Scientology!!! Of course I don't think I could say that with a straight face.....:rofl:

[enigmatic]

18. I told my Ex's Parents that I was a Penitente

And that I couldn't make it to Easter Sunday Brunch because I was picked that year to be the one that was mock-crucified at my Morada; that was the last time they asked about my religous beliefs..

[WCGreen]

22. I went with a friend to his fiances house...

They were strict Catholics...

Hold on a minute, the drugs are kicking in.......

Okay, where were we...

So they asked me how I was raised and I said, Catolic...

So they said good, then you are going to mass with us....

I said no. the Catholics lost me when they stopped doing the mass in latin and let guitars into the church....

they didn't know what to say......

A very akward weekend indeed and the Acid didn;t help one bit. No siree

[enigmatic]

25. Oh yeah...

I was even going to break off a tree branch and beat myself on the back before brunch as part of my penance before brunch if they insisted I go; my ex was going to take pictures of it as kind of performance art..

[WCGreen]

27. Performance Art.....

Now that I could see you doing...

[barb162]

69. Bwahahahahaha

I love that crucifixion part (I bet you really got their attention)

[NMMNG]

15. Spirituality does not necessarily require religion

Often it does, but one can be deeply spiritual and not at all religious. The Unitarians might be just the thing for your family if you decide to attend services. That way the children will get exposure to a broad range of belief systems and be able to decide for themselves what, if any, they wish to adopt.

[norml]

19. The Unitarian Church is very enlightened. Tibetan Buddhism is cool.

You could get some Tibetan Buddhism books, attend some lectures, and maybe even show up at your nearest temple to celebrate the New Year.

Having been raised Catholic, you might enjoy the candles and incense.

[evlbstrd]

20. My mother pulled the same thing.

Wanted me to take the kids to Catholic church. She even gave us a glass creche, but it was made in China. (She worked at WalMart at the time.) The label on the box read "HOLY FAMALY."
I have always told my kids that they are free to explore any spiritual or philosophical path that they want. And I would support them. The limit is proselytizing.

edit: left out a word, dammit.

[GreenInNC]

23. Episcopalians

I was raised Presby and my wife was Catholic. After the Catholic Church said they didn't want me (thats another story) we found a very good liberal Episcopal Church. Our Rector can rable rouse with the best of them.

[Hissyspit]

26. I nominated...

as much for the 'batshit crazy' quote as for the quality of the discussion.

[MrScorpio]

28. Moms is WAAAAAAY out of line

Since your hubby has your back, you're all cool.

[IrishDemocrat]

29. Have the same problems, but with own parents!

I was born and raised Catholic as well, part of me wants to go back, part doesn't. I have to duck going to Mass because I still live at home largely due to the "great real estate market" that is good for sellers, bad for potential first time buyers. I once flat out said last November I'm not going because I'm pro-choice and the church doesn't respect my points of view. Both (even my pro-choice mom) parents thought I was ridiculous for leaving over that issue and made it known I had to go or leave. Due to money I have little choice, but I can sure duck it and go for some nice Sunday drives.

[China_cat]

30. Or Quaker

[girl gone mad]

31. She's wrong.

You are not neglecting your children by skipping out on church. My sister and brother in law were raised in an atheist home and they are two of the most well adjusted people you could ever hope to meet. I, on the other hand, was raised in a very religious home, attending church twice a week, and I was pretty screwed up for a long time.

It's none of her business. Besides, who really wants to worship a god that would punish children because their parents don't force them to attend church?

Most of the churchgoing people in my generation seem more interested in making business connections, getting their children into youth programs and socializing at church than they are in nurturing their spritual well-being.

[StaggerLee]

32. Tell her that you attend the church of Bob

The patron saint of all those random guys in accounting.

heh

Seriously though. It's ultimately no ones business but your how you raise your children. If you want to attend services I know that you'll find one to your liking from the suggestions that other DUers have given already.

Best wishes.

sL-

[MN ChimpH8R]

45. You mean this "Bob" ?

The Sub-Genius needs "Slack!"

[YOY]

49. The Church of the Sub-genius!

Oh so tongue-in-cheek.

Glory to Bob in the Highest!

[MN ChimpH8R]

50. The Sub-Genius Syllogism

Jesus is our hope
"Bob" is our Jesus
Jesus is Bob Hope
Abracadabra

"As long as smoke rises from the True Pipe of JR "Bob" Dobbs, Eris can throw herself whatever tantrum she likes, and I know that the Con will not stop me from pursuing True Slack."

[YOY]

57. Wasn't it made up by the same folks who make the game

Illuminati?



Ergo Jesus has been dead sinch July of '03.

[NeoGreen]

33. I'm an atheist but take my kids to...

the local Unitarian Church on occasion. I believe they need to have a "church" to associate with and learn about community and I like everything about the UUA I have read.

Plus it has helped to stop the flow of invitations to Baptist churches from their fundie friends when they say they already have a church.

[vi5]

34. I tell my mom if she wants my daughter to go to church...

..then take her. Drive all the way over to our house on Sunday morning, pick her up, take her, and then drive her back. It's that simple. I don't have a problem with my daughter knowing what other people (especially her grandparents) believe. But my wife and I are atheists so we're not going to take our daughter to church, or temple, or mosque or whatever, simply because someone (even my own mother) believes in that stuff.

[Jamastiene]

35. Spiritual well-being can be and is often only ever

achieved in the absense of church. A person can taught about morals and grow up to have high moral standards without ever setting foot into a church. Church is highly overrated compared to true spirituality.

[salin]

36. Response for m-i-l:

there are so few churches these days... so many have ceded tending to the spirit for politics from the pulpite ... that try as you may - you haven't been able to find a church that would tend to your children's spiritual well-being.... (okay so I am being partially sarcastic - but not completely so...)

[CitrusLib]

37. Word of warning. Choosing a church won't end it.

Sounds as if MIL won't be happy unless the grandkids are attending HER church (or denomination). Choosing A UU or Congregational Church will probably just open up more unwelcome comments from her.

My sister is a UU minister and she could tell you story after story after story about people telling her UU was not a 'real' church. In 2004, a woman in Texas denied a UU congregation their tax exempt status. She was reversed after pressure was applied from various pro-religion organizations, but she's just announced her candidacy for Govenor.

Thank MIL for her concern, assure her your kids have plenty of spirit and blow her off. :D

[frictionlessO]

38. If you are interested in UU, DU'er Pacifist Patriot is a minister.

and she is really really good at it! I've talked to here a number of times and she is a sage.

PM her, she has some answers.

[Coventina]

39. You might also consider Society of Friends (Quakers)

They are very progressive and very outspoken against the war.

They also run excellent schools for children. Chelsea Clinton went to one.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

40. Be careful

Because I doubt you want MIL telling your kids behind your back that "You're going to burn in hell forever because you have a bad mommy" and generally mindfucking them with religion and scaring them into accepting Jeebus. You might want to talk to her about it frankly, because these people do not give up. And UUs are probably right up there with atheists in her eyes, so don't expect that to appease her.

A friend of mine has had to decide that her in-laws won't have unsupervised visits with her son because grandma has pulled shit like that with the older grandkids (and because granddad is a virulent racist, homophobe, and drunk).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. ATTENTION MCCTATAS! THIS is the post you HAVE to read! (nt)

[fudge stripe cookays]

44. GOD that is so fucked.

I hate these people with nothing less than every fiber of my being.

FSC

[miss_kitty]

52. SECONDED!

i was going to say something similar in my post, but I thought it was OTT, until I read this post. I didn't read the posts here before I posted. I agree about the possibility of her undermining you. Talk to your kids about frankly, too, when they're old enough to understand.

[mcctatas]

68. I think you are probably right, I will have to face this one head on

My youngest daughter won't buy into the whole religion thing (she is almost spock-like in her refusal to accept the irrational), but my older daughter wants to make everyone happy, and is very sensitive to criticism, I refuse to let these people make her question her value as a person simply because she doesn't go to the right church. I guess it won't be the first time I upset them (or the last for that matter)....time to stick up for my kids!!!!

[Deep13]

41. Maybe just drop the unnecessary mental baggage ...

... and be an atheist. Tell your in-law that keeping your children in a cage is negligent and that making a cage for their minds is no better.

[PleadTheFirst]

43. Blow it off.

I was raised strict Irish Catholic, and got out of it. My sister turned Fundie when she got married. My wife's family is Jewish.

We chucked it all out, and decided to teach our kids to respect other people's beliefs and just be nice to other people.

[Bassic]

46. I am a catholic and I was force dto go to chruch

for the first 17 years of my life. Didn't get indoctrinated though :)

I guess it depends where you are, but the catholic church over here is pretty tame. (especially since there are so little priests being named for the last 40 years over here ;)

[Avalux]

47. Do what you think is best.

If your husband is OK with not going to church, don't do it because your mother-in-law is pressuring you. They are your children and it's your decision. If you are considering going back to church, do it because YOU want to and feel your children will benefit from it in some way.

[liberalitch]

48. Say you're Home-Churching...... can't be any worse than...

neo-cons home schooling.

No insult to the rational people here who home school to avoid having your kids taught Intelligent Design in science class.

As a public school teacher i believe that the social skills kids develop in school (dealing with ALL types of people) is invaluable to developing good citizenship

[Hugin]

56. LOL! Beautiful suggestion!

LOL! Home Churching! LOL!

:rofl:

[miss_kitty]

51. you don't need to take the kids to church to ensure their

spiritual well-being. It's obvious. Look at that POS in the White House. He goes to church. I see NO SIGN of spirituality there.

I'm with the hubby. Ignore the meddlesome old bag. If you must respond to her just tell her "Church and religiosity do not equal Spirituality. Now fuckoff, mind your own business and don't waste my time with this crap anymore. I have some kids to raise."

Only take them if YOU want to or THEY want to go. It's none of her business.

[johannes1984]

54. i say 'bleh'

You're doing a perfect job no matter what any funny fundy says .Having grown up with a mass being stuffed down me throat every sunday untill my eighteenth birthday i found a somewhat ego-satisfying way of dealing with people challenging my spirituality .i'ld take about five minutes of their dialogue ,nay monologe and then reply 'If you want simple answers , go read le petit prince , it'll do the trick without the indoctrination ....off course they ussualy just shrug and say 'bleh '....but it's fun to look them in the eyes and make them realize theirs is a choice not some divine absolute .


best of luck with it all , and the best part is not knowing you are smarter , it's knowing everybody's probably equally wrong

[DeepModem Mom]

58. I personally favor giving a child some tradition as they grow up --

making it clear that they can reject it for some other tradition, or none at all, at any time. Again, it's been only my PERSONAL experience, but kids who've been brought up without any traditional rites of passage, holidays, etc., sometimes seem to feel they've missed something. When most kids are going through these things, they are not.

My kids were taught about all of the great religions in school, with none favored, and are proud of their knowledge. I wouldn't want to be completely ignorant, or raise a child who was completely ignorant, of religious stories and traditions.

Many people find comfort in religion, for all its faults -- if a child grows up with nothing, they miss a chance to have grown up with something they might have wanted. They can reject it as they grow up, and throw it in your face if they want to -- but you will have given them the choice.

A church like the Unitarian Church offers a tradition and social group of seekers, who don't claim to have the answers.

[Taverner]

59. Hey lets do the Unitarians together

Im considering them myself, and I know it would piss off the fundie side of my family...

[ronnykmarshall]

61. Become Jewish.

Just to watch her head :nuke:

[snacker]

62. Ignore her....

I was raised Catholic like you. Our four children, all grown now,never went to church. Today one is a social worker, one works as an education support advocate for homeless families, one is getting ready to teach in an inner city school, and the youngest also wants to teach. They are the most loving, caring, & open-minded people I know.

[Democracy White]

63. Quote this to her...

"If going to church makes you a Christian, does going to the garage make you a car?"

From a bumpersticker that someone FUCKING STOLE OF MY CAR!!

Dee

[Infomaniac]

64. DH and I were raised Catholic but are now UUs

We thought it necessary to expose SD to our values when her maternal uncle started taking her to a fundie church. UUs have no one-size-fits-all belief system but we do seem to be awfully found of baked goods.

We also looked at the Quakers and Church of Christ. It was fun visiting the various churches and finding something we were comfortable with.

[XemaSab]

65. Check out the local Methodists

Go and talk to the pastors, and don't be afraid to ask questions.

Ask them what they think about reconciliation. That will tell you right away what you're dealing with. "Reconciling" is the term for congregations that are welcoming of gays.

[Lars39]

66. You need to address this head on.

I wish I had done that with my fundy in-laws. One characteristic of
fundies I've observed over the years is that they just keep pushing.

We were every-once-in-a-while church goers, and that seemed to keep them
mollified for a while, but when our kids started reaching the "age of
accountability", which is fundy-speak for,"your kids are going to hell
unless they are saved by age____(fill in the blank)",the in-laws put
enormous pressure on us and the kids.
We didn't realize at first that they were pressuring the kids.
Some of the stuff the in-laws would say was just awful.:(

Although my kids are pretty much grown now,I stopped letting my kids stay with
the in-laws as soon as I realized what was going on.
I can't trust the in-laws to treat them right.
Fundies may yak about unconditional love,but what they really want is
conformity.

[GreenPartyVoter]

67. I vote for the liberal church, but trust yourself. You know what is right

for your family. :hug:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

70. Don't let her push you into something you don't want...

Your children should have the right to recognize their own spirituality without a bunch of meddlers butting in to tell them what they should believe.

If you want a social setting for them that is respectful of individuals' beliefs, which encourages people to explore and understand their own souls, a Unitarian church would be a good place to visit.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

71. Say you're taking them to a Catholic church

10 bucks says she'd rather they go to no church at all.

[LeftyMom]

72. "You chose how to raise your kids and I'm choosing how to raise mine"

I swore I'd wear that sentance out with my MIL but it seems like I haven't had to use it on her in ages. Either it worked or she got sick of me repeating myself. :shrug:

Lets just say MIL and I have our disagreements too.