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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:31 AM
Original message
There's a snake in my house
I thought I saw him the other day, sticking his head out of my kitchen cabinet. Then I thought maybe I was seeing things. I pulled everything out of the cabinet and he was no where to be found.

Today, I went to pee and he was 6" from my right foot. I think we both scared the shit out of each other. I went one way and he went the other. He crawled through a hole in my bathroom wall. A hole that my landlord keeps saying he's gonna fix. I have a lot of water problems here that they just can't seem to take care of. I bought latex foam sealant. Now he's trapped in the wall. I don't know if he can get back outside from there or not. I'd hate to kill him. He's really a beautiful snake, all shiny and black, but I'm really scared of him. I never knew I was afraid of snakes until now. Anybody have any ideas? Where's Jeff Corwin when I need him?
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. everyone likes snakes until they are in your wall
ack! I say burn the place down and start over again! :P
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Shiny black snakes should not be poisonous...
Poisonous snakes announce this fact to the world by being brightly colored.

I'd open the hole up and let him out.

He in return will eat your household pests.

And he'll never hurt you.
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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. my snake was cool
He's just a black snake. I had a mouse this winter for the first time in seven years. Now my mouse is gone.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Seriously, you aren't for sure that it isn't poisonous.
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 09:14 AM by Shell Beau
It more than likely isn't. But cottonmouth's also have the same description as the one in your house. Just get an expert to get it out.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Not a water moccasin (cottonmouth).
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 09:11 AM by Shell Beau


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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. He looks more like your second pic than the first
He's a lot more thin than the second pic too. He's about 2 and a half feet long. His head and tail are really skinny.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. He's probably just a rat snake or a king snake. But
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 09:36 AM by Shell Beau
I still wouldn't take any chances. I have seen cottonmouths in my back yard several times (of course I live in MS where they are very common).Get an expert to get him out. Cottonmouths are very aggressive and poisonous. Good luck!
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Black Racer.....
Dirty mouths..... nonpoisonous though..... make sure he doesn't get near your pets (infection from bite)
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. They are usually smaller than a cottonmouth. But
I have also seen those. They are usually pretty quick!
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. There is a snake that makes a great pet.... a sunbeam
From Southeast Asia..... more docile and "cleaner' than a racer
Absolutely beautiful snake!
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Wow! That is so cool. Really beautiful colors!
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. yea and if they take a little nibble of you, you won't get lockjaw....
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. That is always a plus!
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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. wow
He almost looks like a hologram snake.
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thom1102 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Cottonmouth... Shiny black... Poisonous... EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE!!!
Found in eastern Virginia.

Although if it were a cottonmouth, I think that it would have bitten you while you were on the toilet.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. dull dusty gray, not shiny black
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 09:42 AM by pitohui
they're not aggressive either, they're quite passive, hell, a cottonmouth is almost fatter is than it is long, most of the so-called cottonmouths you think you see are look-alike harmless Nerodia species playing w. yr mind

never seen a shiny black cottonmouth myself although i'll accept the photo evidence they exist, the many i've seen IRL have all been gray or faded-patterned-y

my guess is blue runner or black racer, had one in the house myself, chased it out, it hung around the yard for yrs, quite harmless really & keeps the rodents away
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. They are most certainly aggressive. I see them
almost daily where I live and I have to disagree with you there. They do vary in color though. Some are shiny black, some aren't.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. well maybe my face scares 'em off
i've never had one behave in a way i would consider aggressive

i've had them sit there in a spot where maybe another snake would take a clue train and go ahead and slink off so maybe you're right as this would suggest more boldness than some others

however i find Nerodia can be bold also, so i don't use personality as an identifier
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Nah, I'm sure they like your face. But they will come
right at you, where as another snake may avoid you. And if you try to fool with them, then be prepared.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. don't worry, i will not mess w. them
i have a heavy tread so suspect i scare off more than i see

when i do see them, i back off slowly and resist all photo temptations

just not worth it
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. I was bitten by one as a kid.....
I was about four (1969) and all i remember was being very very sick..... my mom said I alomost lost my leg..... all i have now is a V scar on my left shin
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. I am glad that you are okay and still have your leg. That
was probably a scary experience.
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. Thanks... me too...
It's just that now I want to swallow rats whole..... damnedest thing
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. You need to get with Spiderman. I think he had a similar experience.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Did he look like this?
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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'm in Virginia
I know he's not poisonous. Now he's stuck in my wall and I feel like a turd. I don't want to kill him, but I'm afraid of him. I had to do something to keep him out of my bed. I was scared.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Call animal control
they may be able to catch him.. he may even be an escaped pet:)

Enjoy your mouse-free environment:)
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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I don't know if he's an escaped pet
but I'd keep him as a pet if I wasn't so damn scared of him. I never knew I was afraid of snakes until now.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Be careful.. even though he's not poisonous..he does have teeth
:)and if he offers you an apple..refuse it:)
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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Oh shit
I'd eat the apple for spite!
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. Sounds like a king snake. It will kill other snakes & pests.
I would let it free if you can. The king snake will kill copperheads.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. King snakes can be aggressive though.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. The only way you know he's poisonous
is if his head is triangular in shape, the venom glands protrude from each side behind the eyes. If the head is in line with the body, no he's not poisonous.

My dad once removed a black snake from my grandma's wall. But they had a huge pair of ice tongs to do it.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I think you can also tell by their pupils. But who wants
to get that close?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. or if he bites you,,,and you don't die...
it's not poisonous:)

(OTOH..I WAS bitten by a poisonous snake and I didn't die)
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. How about if he bites you and you don't feel sick or woozy?
What snake did you get bitten by?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. We never caught it.. he only got one fang into my finger
We lived in Panama and EVERYTHING was poisonous, so I had to have a gazillion shots of nasty anti-venom stuff. I DID get sick from that shit.. But hey.. i was about 9 yrs old so I didn;t complain a lot :)
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yikes! Glad to hear you made it!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Probably one of these.. it was in the weeds, and I stuck my hand in
and then the weeds moved, but I was afraid to grab at it to catch it


http://www.czbrats.com/Facts/snakes.htm



The Fer-De-Lance

The fer-de-lance, a member of the Trimeresurus family, is also known as the terciopelo ("velvet skin"), the barba amarilla ("yellow beard"), and the equis (because of the -like design of its body markings). This is a snake, which although found in the jungle up to 2,000 feet in altitude, commonly frequents lowland plantations in search of the rodents that live on the abundance of fruits. In the plantations the "equis" has come to be regarded as a benefactor of man, because of its controlling effect on the rodent population. This snake is slender, dark, often black, with light colored somewhat light-yellowish to light-gray -like designs on its back, and averages, when fully grown, about 5 feet in length, rarely attaining 6 feet. Its head is lancet-shaped, whence it has derived the name "fer-de-lance." The females are viviparous, giving birth to some 45 to 70 lively and very aggressive youngsters in each litter. These newly born snakes are just as dangerous as their parents, for their food (moths and insects) is hard to get, their competition among themselves is keen and their venom concentrated. Because of the trouble they have in feeding they are liable to be encountered still active in bushes and grass after sunup, a time when most vipers seek cover. This was apparently the first lancet-headed new world snake observed by the European settlers, and for a long time was thought to exist only on the island of Martinique, and in South America. Later it was found to have a much greater range, including all of Central America. Other species of lancet-headed vipers were soon discovered.

Baby fer-de-lance are lighter in body color, and somewhat difficult to distinguish from some of the harmless snakes of the same size. This is why most of the people who have been in the bush always regard such small snakes with suspicion, and consider many innocuous types as dangerous "equis" until proven otherwise.

The fer-de-lance has come to be regarded as the most dangerous snake in the Panamanian jungles, chiefly because it is the commonest of the vipers. The speed of its strike it so fast that the eye can hardly follow it, although its striking range is very short (6 to 10 inches). It is said that the mongoose which invariably masters the cobra, has only a 50-50 chance with the fer-de-lance.

As with most snakes, the sex of the "equis" is hard to determine without dissection. Not infrequently in the spring of the year a "well-fed" snake taken into captivity may surprise its keepers by giving birth to young in great numbers. This happened once in a scientific institution in Panama, for one morning it was discovered with dismay that the "well-fed" snake, a fer-de-lance, had grown very thin during the night, and the vicinity of the cage was swarming with about three score lively little "equis" with a ravenous appetite. A real snake hunt ensued.

A frequent heckler's question asked of a person expounding about snakes may be "How do you tell the males from the females?" Lyle Womack has a good answer to that one in the reply "That, my friend, is a question of great importance to the snakes, but not so much concern to us."


The Bushmaster

This oval-headed, longest and heaviest viper of the American Tropics, averages about 7 feet in length, and would weigh about twice as much as a fer-de-lance of the same length. Although specimens have been reported up to 14 feet in length, they have not yet been brought in here for confirmation. It is the second largest poisonous snake in the world, second only to the king cobra, and frequents rocky forested country. Its general body color is tan, with a black saddle-like pattern on its back.

Although a powerful snake, and much slower than the fer-de-lance, it must be handled carefully when captured, because its back is easily broken, and many valuable specimens have been spoiled in this fashion when taken alive. The bushmaster does not do well in captivity, invariably dying in a short time, and seldom will it be found in any zoo.

The scientific name of this snake is Lachesis Muta. It is also known as the "verrugosa" or "warty one," and as the "cascabela muta" (silent rattle snake) because of the spine on the tip of its tail which may vibrate among dry leaves so as to simulate the sound of rattles when it is alerted or nervous. It is also sometimes called "mapana."

Bushmasters lay eggs, about 10 to 14 at a time, and those that survive after the hawks, rodents, coati-mundis, and other predators of the jungle have eaten what they find, hatch into young snakes that immediately disappear underground, where they frequent the burrows of the rodents, living in turn on their young.

Apparently when they become too large to maneuver effectively in the burrows, they become terrestrial, but not until they have practically attained adult size. Young bushmasters have seldom been captured or even seen beyond the egg stage.

It would seem appropriate to stress the rarity of the occasion when one will see a bushmaster. Yet, I recall a day in 1943 when Dr. Clark was stressing this very point to a group of naval officers undergoing jungle training by Maj. Cresson H. Kearny, of the Panama Mobile Force, on the Madden Forest Highway. That same afternoon Kearny took them off on a compass course cross-jungle from Las Cruces Trail, and they returned a couple of hours later with a live 7-foot bushmaster. Unfortunately its back was broken and it died over the weekend.

This brings up the point of snake collecting. Using a loop-on-a-pole catching device, the live snakes should be deposited in a good burlap bag. Thus they may be carried satisfactorily and comfortably, preferably with the bag tied. For some reason or other they cannot endure a horseback ride, frequently dying en route when carried in this manner, but they will survive an automobile ride.


Hog-Nosed Vipers

The small hog-nosed vipers of Panama are true pit vipers, definitely poisonous, and not related generically to their harmless namesake in the United States.

They are of two species: (1) Trimeresurus lansbergii of the Pacific side and (2) Trimeresurus nasutus of the Atlantic side. Their common names are patoca or tamaga. They range in length from 12 to 18 inches. The tipped-up nose of the Atlantic species is more prominent than that of its Pacific relative. They are dark brown or black with faint brick red rhomboid markings on their backs.

As a ground snake of the sabanas more than of the forest, it is less apt to strike than the fer-de-lance, and few bites have been reported by these species.


Eyelash Snake - Tree Viper

Tree Vipers

There are three species of tree vipers, the commonest being Trimeresurus schlegelii (horned palm viper, eyelash snake, bocaraca, toboba de pestamas, oropel, or sleeping gough). This is a small sometimes rather stocky, snake, 10 to 14 inches in length including its prehensile tail which enables it to live in trees and bushes, where it feeds principally on birds.

The drawing of its head hardly does it justice, for its expression is that of unmasked malice in pure form. Their colors vary from olive green or butter yellow, with specks of black, to almost black with a pinkish pattern over the back, even in littermates.

Their prehensile tails and scales above the eye, standing out as small horns or eyelashes, make identification easy. Common in cacao plantations, they may be encountered in the felling of trees and bushes. Several were collected by the Mobile Force troops in the Pina area during the war.

Their venom spells instant death to birds. Clark tells of seeing one strike a bird only a glancing blow. The bird fell to the ground, and by the time it could be located and picked up it was stiff with rigor mortis. Clark knows of only one instance of a workman being struck on the shoulder near the neck. After some discussion at the time (facetiously) of where to apply a tourniquet for such a location, mouth suction was applied, and the man recovered uneventfully without specific treatment.

There are two other species of tree vipers, without eye-lashes, which so far have been found only at elevations of 4,000 to 6,000 feet.

One, Trimeresurus lateralis has light stripes along its sides, and the other, Trimeresurus nigroviridis has powerdershot black specks scattered throughout the green body background. they are about 18 to 30 inches long and both are green in color.

The "Jumping Snake"

This is another dart-headed snake, about 10 to 20 inches in length, with a very heavy body. The body pattern resembles that of the bushmaster, but is of a double saddle and stirrup pattern in pairs at close intervals.

Its strike is so vigorous that it may stir up a cloud of dust as its short powerful body pulls away from the ground. This is how it derives its common names, "jumping snake," "timbo," and "mano-de-piedra."

They are found in rocky elevated places; one large individual having recently been brought in from the East Ridge. Its scientific name is Trimeresurus nummifer.


The Tropical Rattlesnake

The tropical rattler, Crotalus durisus, is by far the deadliest of all, but none have as yet been collected in Panama. Only one is now a collector's item at the Board of Health Laboratory, and that was presented by Douglas March from his Honduras collection. Its colors have long since faded out in formalin.

It is alleged to exist in the dry tablelands of the Provinces of Chiriqui and Veraguas, where it is zealously protected by the natives of the Bocas del Toro region.

To these Indians the tropical rattler is a religious symbol and an economic asset, for, depending on its venom for obtaining their food, they make up a mixture of liver paste and venom which which to tip their hunting arrows and spears.

They allow no white intruders to enter their domain, or to molest their snakes. Explorers in that area, once believed uninhabited, but now found by air observation to be under intensive cultivation, are no more welcome than were the Conquistadores; and to those Indians contemporary man is still as undesirable and treacherous as they by bitter experience to be characteristic of the Conquistador.

Godman's Viper

This is another small thick ground viper, black in color, and about 18 to 22 inches in length. Natives say that they seldom strike a person, and there are no records of bites. They have been found at about 4,000 feet elevation.


The Corals

I have hardly mentioned the coral snake up to this point. The coral minds its own business, usually tolerates gentle handling if one is indiscreet enough to pick one up, and asks only to be let alone.

It would, however, be very dangerous to step on one inadvertently with bare fee, for it will resent being hurt.

It always reminded me of the easygoing cocker spaniel of the poisonous snake family. Being a burrowing snake, few accidents have been caused by it.

There are about 11 recognized species of true corals in Panama, many of them very small, and not all tricolor.

The common true coral, ranging from 10 to 20 inches in length, is tricolor, and may be described as like a newspaper, "Black and while (sometimes yellow instead of white), and red all over." The basic body color is coral red with black bands bordered by white (or yellow) at intervals.

The eye of the poisonous tricolor corals is very small, in contrast with the larger eye of the nonpoisonous tricolor false corals.

The coral's scientific name, as a member of the elapidae, is micrurus of the given species, such as Micrurus nigrocinctus, which is the one commonly seen. It is also known as the harlequin snake.

The coral in Mexico is known as the "20-minute snake," for the victim is supposed to be a goner 20 minutes after being bitten by one.

However, the coral is not well-equipped for biting, and its fangs are short, grooved, and fixed, placed so far back in its upper jaw that it has to batter at its target fast and furiously, like a sideswiping trip hammer, before it can get a grip. then, when it does get hold of a fold of skin, it hangs on like a bulldog and chews like a cobra to instill its venom.

It is capable of causing a serious bite only under such favorable circumstances. Needless to say, since its fangs are so short, and its bite so superficial, incisions would hardly be indicated in treatment. Regular snakebite technique, as outlined in Part I of this discussion, should suffice.

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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Sounds scary. Thank goodness you are okay!
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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Maybe I should just pull him out of the wall
and ask him.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. He'll probably let you know before you even have to ask him!
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Finder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
31. I grabbed for a snake in a wall...
and it bit me(just a nick). My hand and arm went numb for about 2 hrs. It was a black snake--still don't know what type or whether it was poisonous.

I love snakes but I never try to grab them anymore.lol
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Yeah, I wouldn't suggest grabbing for them either!
:P
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Tracyjo Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. I was just kidding
I'm not gonna grab him out of the wall. I'm sure if I opened the hole back up, he'd come visit. I'm sure he's quite pissed right now, because he can't get out. I do hope he's found his way outside. I'm sure he's just an ordinary black snake. I'm NOT afraid of him. I'm NOT afraid of him...
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