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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 11:00 PM
Original message
For post #4000: Ray Bradbury, "Fahrenheit 451"
Granger's speech to Montag at the end of Fahrenheit 451:

" 'There was a silly damn bird called a phoenix back before Christ, every few hundred years he built a pyre and burnt himself up. He must have been first cousin to Man. But every time he burnt himself up he sprang out of the ashes, he got himself born all over again. And it looks like we're doing the same thing, over and over, but we've got one damn thing the phoenix never had. We know the damn silly thing we just did. We know all the damn silly things we've done for a thousand years and as long as we know that and always have it around where we can see it, someday we'll stop making the goddamn funeral pyres and jumping in the middle of them. We pick up a few more people that remember every generation.'

He took the pan off the fire and let the bacon cool and they ate it, slowly, thoughtfully.

'Now, let's get on upstream,' said Granger. 'And hold onto one thought: You're not important. You're not anything. Someday the load we're carrying with us may help someone. But even when we had the books on hand, a long time ago, we didn't use what we got out of them. We went right on insulting the dead. We went right on spitting in the graves of all the poor ones who died before us. We're going to meet a lot of lonely people in the next week and the next month and the next year. And when they ask us what we're doing, you can say, We're remembering. That's where we'll win out in the long run. And someday we'll remember so much that we'll build the biggest goddamn steamshovel in history and dig the biggest grave of all time and shove war in and cover it up. Come on now, we're going to go build a mirror factory first and put out nothing but mirrors for the next year and take a long look in them.' "



I finally got around to reading F451 last week, and I thought this speech was just a brilliant way to drive the point of the book home: Information doesn't matter unless you use it, and a government with an uninformed populous can do pretty much whatever they want. Any dictatorship that survives for any period of time at all does so by controlling the flow of information. If a government is able to control what people know, it can then control how they think by manipulating what they know so that they can convince the population to fall in line with whatever the government has planned. When this time comes, it's up to the people that "remember", as Bradbury put it, to set the record straight whenever and wherever possible.

And this is why we're here.

A :toast: to all of DU. :)
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ray Bradbury has been my favorite writer my whole life.
The man resides on another plane of existence.
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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I never thought I'd say this...
...but Bradbury really is more relevant than Orwell. I love the way Orwell chose to change how people think in large part through changing the mechanism through which ideas can be expressed (1984's Newspeak), but I think Bradbury nailed it in allowing his country to actively choose to stop informing themselves. In the end, that's the risk we face.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. You get it!
It is a brilliant work, eh?
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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yeah, it was
:)
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for that post.
:hi:
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Congratulations. Nicely done post.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. I've always loved Bradbury
Not just F451 but his many Sci-Fi short stories. I find them so intriguing and thought-provoking. F451 is very important in today's world to remind people of the importance of books. While there is not a huge threat of book-burning (at least in the US) there is an increasing danger of printed books being phased out in our digital age.

Corporations such as Google are attempting to get libraries to have their collections scanned into databases. Then users would not be able to borrow hard-copies, but instead would have to use the library's computers on-site, or link in via an off-site computer. There might even be a fee involved for the patrons. Considering the volume of books libraries purchase, this would significantly impair book sales, and might cause irreparable damage to the market. Printed books might disappear altogether.
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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Interesting
I'm not sure getting books in digital form isn't such a bad idea. Although I have a hell of a time reading things longer than a few pages on a computer screen, it would be a good thing to be able to have access to any book imaginable.

On the other hand, you're right when you talk about the risk of getting rid of hard copies. There is absolutely a chance that something like this could push people toward not wanting to inform themselves, or toward just not reading at all. And then we have to be worried about, as Bradbury put it, having "intellectual" become a swear word, which causes problems of its own.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm not opposed to having e-books available
If people want to buy them that way it's wonderful, but the idea of libraries phasing out hardcopies and going to digital media is scary. Imagine how many poor people out there who couldn't afford to pay for access to digital books. Even if they don't charge to read them on the computers in the library, printing them out can cost money (many libraries offer a limited number of free pages then start charging). Whereas such people could formerly gain free access to literature and reference materials by just having a library card, they would now have that option closed to them.


I, like you, can only read a limited amount online. While I have no problem reading lengthy tomes such as Anna Karenina in hardcopy, a long magazine article online can lose my interest at times. If something goes on for more than a few pages I prefer to be able to print it out.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yes...that's why we're here.
Very, very nice way of putting things in perspective. I loved Bradbury growing up. And his work resonates today.

:thumbsup:

Terry
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Like his stuff a lot
unfortunately his politics of late have been slipping a little "rightward", post-911. He spoke in FAVOR of the PATRIOT Act at one point. :scared:
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nickgutierrez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I had no idea he was still alive
When was the last time he published anything?
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