Dogs vs jogger- what should I do as a dog owner?

[Wcross]

I live on a rural country road with no foot traffic except for a teenage girl jogger I see from time to time.(the girl part will be explained later) She doesn't live on the road and there are many other country roads in the area to jog on. (although it is her right to use this road) She is aware that the dogs are here and has been aware of them for over a year. I have always let my dogs run, if I were a dog I wouldn't want to be chained to a tree or shut in a pen. They have never had any problems with aggresion and have been free to roam from birth. There are about 5-700 acres of open land that they enjoy with no homes or people to worry about. I have never recieved any complaints from anyone about the dogs.
Today I arrived home and the girl is stretching by my gate leaning against a post. The dogs were waiting for me like they always do and wagging their tails. When I pulled in, the girl started moving on down the road and the three young dogs started barking and following her as if they were "protecting me". I got them calmed down and they followed me to the house. She didn't look worried about anything until I pulled off the road into my driveway.

I would hate to have to pen up the dogs. I understand she has every right to use the road. I don't want her to feel she can't because of the dogs or get bitten and sue me. I have a solution in mind that would be easy. If she carried pepper spray she would be able to deter an attack if my dogs would go that far. (I don't think they would as they are all bark) Also, the road is lightly traveled but I have seen some questionable charactors on it from time to time. I don't know if she understands the risks from two legged dogs.
Now the girl part comes in. I am a creepy old guy (40) and if I approached her to give her a can of pepper spray do you think I would freak her out?

Anybody have a suggestion? Is there some other way to solve the problem without pepper spray or reducing the quality of life my dogs have?



Two of the critters didn't make this picture but they are smaller than those in the pic.

[wyldwolf]

1. soapy water instead of pepper spray

[Wcross]

2. Okay-but wouldn't that make me creepier?

Hi young lady, take this soapy water on your jogs! The dogs have access to a pond to rinse the spray off and it wouldn't be fatal. I also think (as much as I love my dogs) that it would be a good learning experience for them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Does she run at the same time every day?

You could just put the dogs up when you know she is running.

Or use the pepper spray. I think that is a great idea. I see nothing wrong with approaching her and asking if your dogs are bothering her and offering her the pepper spray.

[Wcross]

12. I have seen her at around the same time.

The problem is I am coming home from work at that hour and it would mean keeping the dogs penned for 14 hours every time I go to work. I could ask her to wait until 7pm and I could assure her the dogs would be inside the house waiting to be fed- the only way they would miss that is if they were dead.

[Clintmax]

4. I wouldn't allow any dogs I owned to just run free...

especially if they could run into the road and get hit by a car! I would consider fencing in the yard so they couldn't get run over.

[Wcross]

10. The road is safe and the dogs do the right thing.

I have driven up in a friends car before. They were out by the road and they took off to the sides of the road and scattered. The road is about 1 1/4 lanes wide and only a fool would drive much over 25-30mph. My house is 200 yards off the road and that where they hang out unless they go hunting or swimming in the pond. I feel very safe letting them run. The risk is minimal and I would imagine gives the dog a better life. I am in the rural south and its a common practice to allow small hounds run free.


BTW- the question of whom owns whom is still in doubt. I am not a dog "owner" but rather a companion and caretaker.

[lastknowngood]

5. Train your dogs!!!!! This is basic dog training and responsibility

The dogs are free as long as they respect other people. This is basic stuff, if you can't trust them then you need to train them or pen them. I'm a dog owner and ensure my dog's are either with me or within a fenced yard. I have trained many to respond well to this kind of distraction. It takes a little time but the dogs want to please you so if you let them know the behavior you want they will likely respond well.

[Wcross]

17. How about when I am not around?

Bear in mind this is the ONLY individual I have ever seen on foot using the road. The good news is the older dogs all just sat quietly looking at me and wagging their tails. The three pups ( 1 1/2 year olds) will learn in time. I will take your suggestion and work on the training more with the pups.

[friesianrider]

30. Are all these dogs spayed or neutered?

You mentioned pups, so I hope that if they aren't spayed and neutered, you will consider getting them done ASAP. Most SPCAs and rescues or humane groups will offer low or no cost surgeries if you have several animals.

Spaying and neutering will greatly cut down on any possible aggressive behavior, and also any excessive wandering/roaming. Plus, you can sleep easy knowing they are not creating more unwanted puppies.

[Wcross]

38. Yes- they have been fixed.

I took in three from a neighbor when his house burned down (he was a renter). Two of the girls were in the last couple of weeks of pregnancy. Right after they were finished nursing the pups I had them spayed. The four boys got snipped at the same time.
The pups are a year and 1/2 now, they seem to be calming down as time goes on.

[blue sky at night]

6. I feel for you as I too am a dog owner.

In the old days, we too could let them run free, it was kind of bad as we live near a major 4 lane busy road. I just wanted to warn you that your home owners insurance should cover you if the dog should bite...but make sure. The problem is a jogger is running away, and a dog is reading that as fear......that is what happened to us the one time "wilbur" bit a kid. Anyway, I would shout to her and ask her for a chat, see if she is afraid of dogs; that is the key. Advise her to show no fear, she should be ok. If she is then perhaps the pepper spray would help. Hope it works out, as I would want to let my dogs run also. BTW, it must be great living out in the country.

[pitohui]

9. homeowner's insurance may not cover this now

check yr policy w. yr agent if you have a dog

many homeowner's policies are dropping dog coverage, sometimes just for certain breeds, sometimes for any outdoor dogs not properly controlled

some insurance companies will cancel yr homeowner's insurance policy if they find you are deliberately letting dogs, esp. particular breeds, run free

as you correctly point out, dog's instinct tells it to chase when people run

i do not believe postal delivery persons have found pepper spray particularly efficacious, oh, sometimes it works

sometimes it doesn't

i think the smart person will fence the dogs

[blue sky at night]

23. thanks for the heads up.

We will check our policy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. I can't remember Wcross...are you married or have a significant other?

Perhaps if your wife/so were to approach her about this (with or without you) it might be received better. :hi:

[Wcross]

19. Single. n/t

[comradebillyboy]

8. The onus is 100% on you

to keep your dogs on your property and to keep them from becoming a public nuisance. No ifs ands or buts.

You just might ask her if the dogs bother her before you do anything. If she jogs there frequently and has never complained, there may not be an issue.

[ulysses]

14. 100% agreed. n/t

[Wcross]

21. I don't know if they are even a problem :)

She keeps running by the house so maybe it isn't. Maybe she was petting them before I arrived home? I just want to make sure it isn't a problem but avoid freaking anyone out.

[ulysses]

22. just ask her.

:shrug:

[alphafemale]

31. She was stretching by your gate. It's doubtful the dogs gave her a problem

She maybe got a weird look because she thought you would be suspicious of her stretching right next to your property.

[LoZoccolo]

33. Yeah you don't know, so you should use the jogger as a guinea pig.

No you shouldn't, fucken-A!

What has happened to the human race??!!

[BQueen]

11. Wouldn't the dogs let up if they learned she's not a threat?

I just mention this option since it would seem scarier to me if someone said "Here's something to defend yourself in case my dogs go after you..." (I agree with soapy water rather than pepper spray -- my dog doesn't turn nasty unless threatened, so it might make things worse)

I would suggest approaching her and saying something like "I noticed that my dogs seemed to make you uncomfortable the other day, but they aren't dangerous. However, spraying them (or squirting with water bottle if she carries one) would make them back off if you feel worried. If you would like to meet them and make friends, that's great, but I didn't want to come off like some creepy old guy trying to lure you into my yard..."

Speaking of creepy old guys could easily lead into to an appropriate warning about jogging alone in such an isolated area (and you can let her know that you will keep an eye out for her or whether your dogs could be a source of help if she runs into problems). I grew up in the country too, and there is a sense of false security.

Beautiful doggies, btw, and don't count out the littler ones. My Jack Russell mix weighs less than a quarter of my Cocker, but she's the scary one. Nipped my landlord just for approaching me while I was unlocking the door. If I was ever under a real threat, she'd not give up without having an Achilles tendon for a trophy...

[madrchsod]

15. i agree with you

the dogs and her need to be friends and maybe they may enjoy running with her. if they can`t i guess the water bootle is the answer

[cornermouse]

20. I agree.

If sh'es not afraid of the dogs, buy her some doggie treats to hand out for about a week or so when she gets to your house. And if that doesn't work, move on to plan B.

[Dastard Stepchild]

13. We live in a highly litigious country...

So, best to see the world as the judicial system might. And what they would hear, should the worst case scenario ever find its way into the courtroom, is that your unchained dogs attacked a jogger that did nothing to provoke them. You would be held liable, not the young woman jogging by. It's a matter of assessing risk. There is no guarantee that the dogs will ever touch the girl. There is, however, the extremely high (nearly 100%) probability that if you were brought to court for an injury incurred your dogs, you would be held wholly responsible.

[Pithlet]

16. Can you fence in a portion of your yard?

That way you wouldn't have to pen them or tie them to a tree. You may perceive that they have a greater quality of life roaming free, but their quality of life could be drastically changed if one of them were to bite someone. I think the risk they'll get hit is higher than you think, also. I don't think allowing dogs to roam free is ever responsible.

[sui generis]

18. sounds like a small town thing

requiring neighborly intervention

find out who she is, then get her to introduce to the dogs if she's willing. Once they recognize who she is and that she has a routine, they'll leave her alone, or at least if they tag for a while won't be doing it aggressively.

Or if that's not possible, don't worry about the creepy old guy part - call her parents and just say you're concerned since nobody has ever come jogging down your RR before and you don't want her to think it's a pack of wild dogs or be frightened of them - and leave it at that. You're doing the right thing by trying to avoid a misunderstanding before it happens.

Alternatively, you may have to put your dogs up for the period of time that she's coming by - find out if she jogs on a schedule and offer to secure the dogs for that hour.

good luck

[datasuspect]

24. i used to be a jogger

someone's unrestrained pit bull attacked me. it hurt.

that's when i got some pepper spray.

PEOPLE! your animals are your responsibility.

they ended up euthanizing the animal and i sued the dog owner. there is a tremendous liability when you refuse to restrain/train your beasts.

[Wcross]

25. Good thing we aren't talking about vicious dogs, huh?

The reason I posted the question was an effort to ensure the dogs are not a problem with this individual.

[datasuspect]

26. i was traumatized by that experience

but truthfully, although you know your dogs are harmless, other people may not . . .

do you live in a rural area with encroaching suburban sprawl?

[Wcross]

27. 500 acres of feilds- nearest house is a mile away.

The nearest subdivision is over 10 miles away. ( I would have no modesty problems going up to my mailbox naked- it is very rural)

The dogs have never bit anyone- I have a pest control company that comes while I am away and haven't had any complaints.

[intheflow]

35. If the area you live in is really this far removed from society,

then she probably has a greater reason to fear human predators over canine ones. But then, I'm a dog person, so of course I'd think that way. So I vote you should try to talk with her and offer her pepper spray for any altercation with either species.

Needless to say, I don't advise you do this while walking naked to your mailbox. That would definitely be "creepy old guy" territory.

[kodi]

28. next time she runs by talk to her & get her acquainted with the dogs

when i was running 4-5 miles each morning in the country i stopped each time a dog approached and petted the dog who came near me. it became a ritual during my daily runs and a respite from my run to sit on the ground petting each dog for a few minutes, and up i got and started running again until the next dog came up to me.

but since i have several large 120 pound plus dogs at home and have to be the alpha with them, when a stange one approaches i don't get all freaky about it.

the only time i had a problem is when a large doberman came running and snarling at me.. i instantly turned to face him and charged him screaming at the top of my lungs and waving my hands wildly at him.

i scared the shit out of that dog.

he ran away and never bothered me again although he saw me many times after that.

[friesianrider]

29. I would worry about my dogs "roaming"...

For my dog's sake and not the girl's. I mean, many dogs are hot by cars, snatched and/or taken for all kinds of sick things from being sold to labs for research or stolen by gangs/kids for torture.

Is a fence a possibility?

Also, are all these dogs spayed and neutered? PLEASE consider doing this if they aren't. You mentioned pups, so I hope that if they aren't spayed and neutered, you will consider getting them done ASAP. Most SPCAs and rescues or humane groups will offer low or no cost surgeries if you have several animals.

Spaying and neutering will greatly reduce any possible aggressive behavior, and also any excessive wandering/roaming. Plus, you can sleep easy knowing they are not creating more unwanted puppies.

[LoZoccolo]

32. What??!! PEN THEM UP. Why are you waiting for something to happen...

...before you do anything about it? I can't believe you! That's so irresponsible, and I can't believe you're even asking us (wait a second, I can).

"Hi can you carry pepper spray which you better hope works because I don't want to pen my dogs up?"

What's up with that??!!

This post EXEMPLIFIES why I think dog owners should have to register in an online registry. You do not know when someone will have this kind of LAX attitude toward someone else's personal safety.

[warrens]

34. Give her a water spray bottle

And no, she will not think you are a creep. She will think you are a nice guy trying to help her.

[BiggJawn]

36. The Law is very clear on this.

I imagine it's the same in most states.
Here's a typical County ordinance:ORDINANCE 93-25-CM

ANIMAL CONTROL ORDINANCE FOR UNINCORPORATED TIPPECANOE COUNTY

SECTION I. PURPOSE

This ordinance is intended to protect the public health, safety, and welfare of the unincorporated Tippecanoe County by establishing reasonable and effective regulations concerning the licensing, inoculation, impounding, and keeping of dogs, cats, and other animals kept as pets.

SECTION II. DEFINITIONS

(A) Animal: Kept as a pet, any domestic or wild animal maintained for the emotional benefit of the owner and not used in commercial enterprise.

(B) Animal-At-Large: Any animal not under the restraint of a person capable of controlling the animal on or off the premises of the owner.

(C) Animal Control Officer: Any person who has been employed as such by the Board of Commissioners or the Animal Control Commission.

(D) Animal Shelter: Any facility operated by a humane society, or it’s authorized agents, or operated under contract or agreement with the Board of Commissioners or the Animal Control Commission for the purpose of impounding animals under the authority of this ordinance or state law for care, confinement, return to owner, adoption, or euthanasia.

(E) Dog, Cat, and animal: Both male and female.

(F) Domestic Animal: (1) Cattle, calves, horses, mules, swine, sheep, goats, dogs, cats, poultry, or other bird, (2) any animal of the bovine, equine, ovine, caprine, porcine, canine, feline, or avian species; (3) an aquatic animal that may be the subject of aquaculture.

(G) Identified Complaint: A complaint in which the identity of the complainant is known to the Animal Control Officer or Sheriff’s Department or Tippecanoe County Health Department and whose identity is made a matter of public record or released to any person desiring the same.

(H) Official Warning: A written notice or warning based upon an identified complaint and given to the owner of an animal by the Animal Control Officer, Sheriff, or other member of the County Sheriff’s Department or by an employee of the Tippecanoe County Health Department. Official warning may be given in person or by phone when followed by a written notice.

(I) Owner: Any person owning, keeping, or harboring one or more animals. An animal shall be deemed to be harbored if it is fed or sheltered for three consecutive days or more.

(J) Public Nuisance: Any animal or animals that unreasonably annoy humans, endangers the life or health of other animals or persons, or substantially interferes with the rights of citizens, other than their owners, to enjoyment of life or property. The term “public nuisance animal” shall mean and include, but is not limited to, any animal that:

(1) is found at large;

(2) damages the property of anyone other than its owner;

(3) molests or intimidates pedestrians, bicyclists, or passersby;

(4) chases vehicles;

(5) excessively makes disturbing noises, including, but not limited to, continued or repeated howling, barking, whining, or other utterances causing unreasonable annoyance, disturbance, or discomfort to neighbors or others in close proximity to the premises where animal is kept or harbored;


Note the section on "Nusiance". If the dog is found AT LARGE, and molests or INTIMIDATES a pedestrian or cyclist...

That is usually interpreted around these parts to mean that once an un-restrained dog leaves private property and set one PAW on the public road, his ass is MINE!.

I carry pepper spray, I have ever since a pack of dogs herded me into a stubble field and wrecked me, causing puncture wounds from the soybean stalks. I still have scars from that.

Save yourself and society a lot of heart-ache, fence those dogs, please?

[KitchenWitch]

37. Did she complain

If not, I think I would leave the situation alone.

[henslee]

39. They all look guilty as hell and should have the book thrown at them.

[henslee]

40. I think she's a pain in the ass. She may even like you. Pepper spray

is a bad idea. NOISE IN AN AREOSOL CAN might be better. Maybe if she came over, sat on the porch, met your dog, had a lemonade... things would work out.

[Shell Beau]

41. Talk to the girl. There is nothing

wrong with approaching her about this subject. First and foremost, it is your responsiblity to keep the dogs in line. Even if she is the only person to walk that road, she has the right to do it w/o fear of being attacked by dogs. I, too, own protective dogs, but I keep mine fenced in the yard. That may not be the best option for you. Find out first if she is bothered by it. Training your dogs could also help. But you certainly don't want them to attack the girl b/c then your dogs will be gone and you'll have a lawsuit (not to mention the girl getting harmed).

[ernstbass]

42. I'm soooo envious of your land!!

I'd give anything to have that space to let my dogs run (but I'd don't think I'd let then loose if I wasn't home). I suggest that you approach the jogger and talk to her.

[I Have A Dream]

43. Since you know the time that she usually runs, would it be possible...

for you to arrange for a female friend/family member to be there to speak with her (preferably with you)? I agree that she might be concerned about being approached by a man in such an isolated area. As some other posters have noted, if your dogs are going to continue to roam freely, you might want to get your dogs familiar with her.

[Wcross]

44. I guess I will wait up there this evening and ask her.

The dogs were up there with her. She didn't look worried until I pulled into the driveway. Maybe she was afraid when I pulled up and it caused the dogs to sense the fear? I assume if the dogs worried her she wouldn't have stopped to stretch.
I have a feeling the reason the dogs started barking is because I arrived/she got spooked.
I may have mis-charactorized the way they were barking at her too- it wasn't the attack mode bark they had when they are in fear/attacking. (I witnessed their aggresive barks when they were killing a snake last month) It seemed as if they were in their "bark at a car" mode.