Pit Bull Attacks, Kills Poodle - Owner Of Poodle Shoots Two Men

[matcom]

<snip>

TIPTON -- A Hobbs man is facing multiple felony charges after allegedly shooting two men in the wake of a fight between two dogs.

David Lee Bible, 54, 3300 block of East Ind. 28, was arrested Saturday after Tipton sheriff deputies and Indiana State Police responded to a call of shots fired.

According to sheriff investigators, Trent L. Jacobs, 21, Noblesville, and Jacob E. Morisett, 22, Windfall, suffered buckshot wounds to the legs after Bible shot the pair with a .410-gauge shotgun. The wounds were not life-threatening, according to police.

Police reported Bible became enraged when he saw a pitbull/labrador mix mauling his pet poodle, which died after the attack. Jacobs and Morisett, who had been visiting Bible's neighbor, Dustin L. Keifer, came onto Bible's property to retrieve the mix-breed when Bible emerged from his home with the shotgun, police said.

"Mr. Bible came out of the house and were already leaving the property with the dog. Mr. Bible stated he yelled at the boys to bring the dog back. The boys kept walking away. Mr. Bible stated he walked after the boys and fired his .410-gauge shotgun toward the dog from the corner of his property," reported Deputy Matthew Tebbe.

Police were unsure who owned the pitbull mix, but said the dog ran out of Keifer's house when the door was ajar. While pursuing the dog, Bible fired between three and five shots, some while he was on his own property and some when he was not, police said.

http://www.kokomotribune.com/story.asp?id=8993

[Hugin]

1. That'll teach them to mess with Precious.

Was he wearing night vision goggles?

(Obscure movie reference post)

[matcom]

2. it puts the lotion in the basket

:popcorn: :D

[DS1]

3. Obscure? Hardly

:toast:

[Shell Beau]

4. I can understand his anger at the dog, but there

is no need to shoot people. He could have called the cops to come and take care of the situation. Press charges or whatever. I would say he took it a little too far. :crazy:

[Rainbowreflect]

5. Actually, I blame the people more than the dog.

They were not being responsible dog owners.
That being said, they did not deserve to be shot.

[Shell Beau]

6. Well that is true, but if I saw a dog tearing my

dog to pieces, my first reaction would be to take care of the dog and then the owners!

[Rainbowreflect]

7. I would react that way too.

I cannot imagine how angry I would be if someone of something attacked my babies.

[LisaL]

9. Gee, the guy was angry. And I understand why.

Some people consider pets their children. What would you say if the pit bull attacked and killed his child instead of the poodle? Well, to him, it could have been the same thing.

[Shell Beau]

12. First off, I don't compare my dogs with children.

My dogs are like my family and I consider them my children in a way (at least until I have children), but they can't even be put on the same level. If I pulled out a gun, it would be for the dog who attacked, not the owners. I would have still called the cops. Nothing good will come of shooting anyone in that situation. The dog will eventually be taken care of.

[LisaL]

15. I didn't say everybody considers dogs the same as children.

Some people do though, and would do anything for their pets.
I imagine the guy got a gun to shoot the pit bull, but the owners came in and were taking the pit bull away. So, he shot at them. While I wouldn't recommend to anyone to shoot the owners, I understand why the guy did it.

[Shell Beau]

19. I'm sorry, I don't understand why the guy did it.

I am sure he got out the gun to shoot the dog, but the fact that he would shoot people (he could have potentially killed them) to me says he is a little unstable. If I had a dog that attacked another pet and killed it, I would want to be the one to take my dog to have it put down (if that was in the best interest) not watch him get shot and killed. I certainly can see why the guy was angry and wanted to kill the dog, but most pet owners would have tried to stop someone from shooting their dogs (even if their dog was in the wrong).

[jobycom]

31. Yeah, I agree. Not saying he was right, but I can understand a "blinded

by rage" kind of argument. He seems to have been shooting at the other dog, not the owners.

Not saying he shouldn't be punished. Just that the circumstances should be considered.

[elehhhhna]

8. Dogs who attack people or other animanls deserve to be put down.

Period.

A responsible owner would have shot it himself. (We're talking rural Indiana here. Farm country.)

[LisaL]

10. Pit bulls are dog aggressive. Even people that defend them at

every turn don't deny that. Pit bulls should never be left un-attended around other dogs. These owners clearly were at fault for allowing this pit bull to roam around.

[Shell Beau]

14. That is not necessarily true for every pit.

I have seem some very submissive pits.

[LisaL]

16. I believe the dog aggression is even in the breed description.

So, those submissive pits were exception, not the rule.

[Shell Beau]

20. Not necessarily so! It may be part of their

description, but that is also true for a lot of dog breeds. It depends on the dog.

[flvegan]

24. In addition, this was a mix (pit/lab, I believe) which means

this dog only had some traits of a pitbull. Could've been a boxer/bulldog/mastiff/shar pei mixed with lab (or anything). That's a very, very vague mix, there.

[Shell Beau]

25. Right. I always say that a dog

can be aggressive b/c that is how that particular dog is, not necessarily the breed.

[flvegan]

26. Yup. Also, the situation can cause a dog to act aggressively.

We don't know the entire backstory here, either.

[Shell Beau]

30. I agree. The poodle could have been the

aggressor. This is true, I kid you not, but a miniature poodle ripped the stitches out of my friend's PIT BULL. They had to rush the dog to the emergency vet b/c she was bleeding so bad. Who knows what got this dog fight going?

[LisaL]

32. You pit bull defenders keep amazing me to no end.

Pit bulls are dog aggressive. It's in their breed description. Yet you keep coming up with those ridiculous stories about poodles maiming poor abused pit bulls.
This poodle was in his own yard. Pit bull had attacked this poor poodle on his own territory and killed him.
Gee!

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

33. And you making broad generalizations about a breed.

There are dogs that are aggressive and dogs that are not. My pit (85% Pit, BTW) was home alone all day every day for 6 years with a 10 lb. Maltese and a cat. You said earlier that "pits should not be alone with other dogs"... you seem to like to generalize as much as some like to defend.

[LisaL]

35. I am not making any generalizations.

Breed description of pit bulls includes the fact that they are dog aggressive. The fact that you still argue with that when it's right there in black and white amazes me to no end.
Do find any breed description of pit bulls on any website that says they are good with other dogs.
"Originally used as fighting dogs, the powerful American Pit Bull may go for the throat of strange dogs."
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

37. I'm sorry. Did I misread your statement....

"Pit bulls should never be left un-attended around other dogs. " ??

[LisaL]

40. Because they are dog aggressive. THey were bred as fighting

dogs. Read the freaking breed description before getting one of those pit bulls, for crying out loud.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

44. I've had a pit. I've researched pits in EXTENSIVE detail.

Have you? Or are you skimming the net looking for data to demonize the breed. That's easy. Any idiot can do that.

[flvegan]

49. I do a great deal of pit rescue. I currently have 4 in my home.

I'd say I'm pretty experienced in the breed.

I'm a defender as well.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

54. Thank you... it's the way that they are raised. THAT is the real issue.

Stupid people.

[LisaL]

55. Have you ever heard about DNA?

Hello?

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

57. Don't be snotty. I've heard of DNA. Weren't they a rap crew from the 80's?

[LisaL]

59. Read a biology text book. Maybe you will get a clue.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

62. Are you implying that I am not well-read on the topic? Or clueless in

general? Why do you have to get snotty?

[LisaL]

65. Well, you did say that DNA is a rock group.

What am I to think?

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

68. I said rap. See? Your reading comprehension is clearly lacking.

[Shell Beau]

63. You're really getting nowhere with your sarcastic remarks.

People who are losing ground usually go to those tactics.

[flvegan]

66. Actually, these were all abused.

One was used as bait for dog fighting. Each one is wonderful. They aren't these stupid fighting machines. Like any other dog, they understand caring.

I don't know who said it, but someone said that if you pick up a starving dog and make him prosper, he will not bite you, and this is the principle difference between dog and man. Something like that.

[Shell Beau]

72. You are a good person for doing that!

[Arkansas Granny]

85. It's not only the way they are raised.

It's also they way they've been bred. For instance, some dogs are bred to track game, some dogs are bred to retrieve and some dogs are bred to fight, etc. Regardless of raising and training, the selective breeding that has been done with dogs for many generations,also determines a lot about their temperament and behavior.

[Shell Beau]

39. I don't need to find any descriptions. I have seen it with my

own eyes.

[LisaL]

43. Yea, sure. And my kitten keeps attacking pit bulls all the time.

I have seen it, I swear to it. My neighbors pit bull is terrified of the cat.
:sarcasm:

[Shell Beau]

45. And...

Are you trying to make a point? You are only hurting your argument.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

48. My pit was terrified of my cat. He'd sit back and watch the cat eat his

food.

No sarcasm at all here. And his best friend was a Maltese. See? He never ate the lil guy:

[Shell Beau]

51. She will say that is the exception not the rule.

She has already said it to me.

[Shell Beau]

36. I am not a pit bull defender. I haven't kept on coming

up with any stories. I had one example of a poodle who attacked a pit who was not poor and abused. Quit embellishing to make it sound better. I have already stated that I understood the owner's anger. Hello! Read all of my posts.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

41. I am a pit bull defender.

And a proud one, at that.

[Shell Beau]

47. My friend had one and it submitted to all 3 of my dogs.

I never once saw the dog even growl. It would jump in my lap and lick me non stop. I have always said it is the dog not the breed. I am a dog defender.

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

50. See my post # 48.... my pit with his kitty and Maltese best friends.

It's all in the training. Really.

[Shell Beau]

53. That was a sweet picture.

[flvegan]

46. Try looking at it this way...

Let's speculate both dogs are male and unaltered (the article doesn't say), and it's a fight over a female in heat. Oh, and the mix is 45 pounds, and the poodle is a Standard, which can be quite large.

We DON'T know the entire story, nor the backstory. What you are saying is as speculative as what I am. Isn't it?

[LisaL]

29. Gee, it's in a breed description.

Pit Bulls are known to be dog aggressive.
"Good natured, loyal and affectionate, the American Pit Bull Terrier has been known to be aggressive toward other dogs; however this can be avoided with proper training."
http://www.vetdnacenter.com/dog-breeds/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier.html
Even this website, that claims they are "good natured, loyal and affectionate" admits they are known be dog aggressive. I dare you to find any breed description of a pit bull that claims they are good toward other dogs.

[Shell Beau]

42. And like I said, it is also in several other breed descriptions.

Try looking up other dogs as well. I have an animal that can be animal aggressive and guess what. He is not a pit!

[jmowreader]

86. But what if they DIDN'T allow the dog to "roam around"?

There have got to be people out there who would sit around with nothing to do and go "you know what would be really cool? Seeing ol' Spike there just rip the shit out of another dog."

So they go out looking for another dog to rip the shit out of. Lo and behold, here's Mr. Bible's poodle. "Sic 'em, Spike!"

[Shell Beau]

13. A lot of dogs and cats for that matter attack other

animals (either for food or protecting territory). It is in their instinctual nature. Should they all be put down?

[elehhhhna]

17. DId I say "any cat who kills a mouse?" Hello!

What part of my post was not clear?

[Shell Beau]

22. Whoa! Calm down here. Your post said

dogs that attack people or other animals!

[elehhhhna]

60. Yep. Sorry. Crabby today.

[Shell Beau]

67. That is okay!!! I get like that too!

;)

[miss_kitty]

87. mmmm. want some?

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
i think there's enough for everyone!

[Doctor_J]

11. Did you get this from gunguys.com?

this is the sort of hilarity they're usually right on top of.

[SidDithers]

18. Why the big distinction on whether he was on or off his property?...

Bible fired between three and five shots, some while he was on his own property and some when he was not.

Is it OK to shoot at someone from your front yard?

Sid

[LisaL]

21. I think there are some sort of "king of my castle" laws.

The guy could claim self-defense if they were on his property?

[Shell Beau]

23. No, I don't think so. I am sure they will try to find some

loophole, though!

[petronius]

28. Perhaps it reinforces the point that he screwed up?

If he'd only fired on his own property he may have had a glimmer of an argument that he felt threatened, but the fact that he left hi property makes it crystal clear that he was chasing these guys, which you're not allowed to do. There may also be legal aspects to trespassing while armed or firing a gun on someone else's property w/o permission (although firing a gun AT someone else w/o permission is the more important issue here...)

[LisaL]

34. Depending on the state, self-defense laws vary.

I think Florida recently passed a self defense law where a person is allowed to use a deadly force if somebody is breaking into their car or their house. Perhaps this guy could have made an argument that the dog and his owners broke onto his property and he acted in self-defense, if it all had happened on his property.

[flvegan]

58. The article says he fired into a truck window

That's not self defense. Living in Florida, I can tell you that you're inaccurate about the new law. You can declare self defense if you felt threatened. Of course, if you're IN the car at the time, then you would be right. However, you still can't chase people down the street. Cops and lawyers look at people shot in the back as not on the offense, usually.

[LisaL]

69. Saying it was in self-defense would be a hard sell in this case.

Clearly, killing the pit bull in the act would be considered self-defense. But not the owners, I am afraid.

[flvegan]

73. An impossible sell, in this case.

I also don't know how "clear" your alternative scenario is, either.

[LisaL]

74. So, if a pit bull is attacking your own dog, on your own property,

you think you should just roll over and play dead, or what?

[Shell Beau]

75. What if your dog provoked it?

I am not saying I woulnd't react with anger at the other dog, but what if. See you don't know.

[LisaL]

76. Since the poodle was on his own property, he couldn't have provoked

a pit bull. It's like saying the victim of home invasion provoked the robber into killing the victim. The poodle, being on his own property, can not provoke that pit bull in any possible scenario.

[Shell Beau]

78. You compare with outrageous scenarios.

That is ridiculous.

Okay, the dog shouldn't have been on his property. But there are various reasons as to why he would've been. What if he chased the poodle off his property. What if the poodle was in heat and it attracted the pit mix, what if, what if, what if. We don't know all of the details. The man shouldn't have shot at the people. Whether this dog attacked first or not, who knows. But the dog could have easily been protecting itself. It didn't necessarily attack or defend b/c it is a pit.

[LisaL]

88. Yea, the pit bull shouldn't have been on the property. All the other

things are irrelevant. The owners are clearly at fault for allowing their pit bull to get on someone's property and kill a dog. Did they deserve to be shot for this? I would say not, but then again, it wasn't my poodle killed by that pit bull.

[Shell Beau]

91. So are you saying that you would possibly kill someone

for something their dog did? And again, you are assuming that the pit mix's owners allowed it on the property. Could it have been an accident that the dog got on the property? Ultimately, yes, the owners are responsible, but it could have been an accident that the dog got loose.

[flvegan]

80. No? Please see my post #46.

[flvegan]

79. No, of course not, but your scenario is extreme.

And my situation is nothing like the one in the article. My yard is well-fenced. Any dog getting in or out isn't likely. However, to play along, I'd grab my breaking stick and my fire extinguisher, as well as my pistol. The fight would end when the extinguisher was put on them. The stick is in case the jaws are locked, the gun is in case the other dog turns on me.

It's about rationally handling a situation, and being ready for the possibility.

[Shell Beau]

81. Exactly!

Shooting people isn't exactly rational.

[flvegan]

82. Especially when they're walking away.

AND if Jimmy Shotgun here was so concerned about his dog, why wasn't he rushing him/her to the vet? Was the dog so destroyed, disemboweled, decapitated, that he know he/she was gone?

Maybe he was just angry. That's how it seems to me.

[LisaL]

89. Well, obviously, he was angry.

Who wouldn't be?

[LisaL]

52. It's legal if done in self-defense.

Depending on the state's self-defense laws.

[jobycom]

61. Just the writer trying to paint the complete picture

He wasn't trying to make a legal argument. Someone shooting at a dog on his property has a different emotional feel than someone shooting at a dog and two men from behind after they've left his property.

Reminds me of the old medieval laws on adultery. If a man caught his wife with another man and killed them both, he would not be charged with murder if they were still in the bedroom when he killed them. If they had made it out of the bedroom, it would be murder. That was the medieval way of codifying blind rage, basically. If you let them out of the room, you were no longer mad enough to use blind rage as a defense.

[LisaL]

77. He didn't let them out (the poodle owner, that is). They have run off.

[jobycom]

83. Well, that was poor wording on my part

No matter how the adulterous couple got out of the room, they were out, and the husband could no longer be considered "in a blind rage, devoid of ability to reason." I wasn't giving a legal defense on property rights, I was talking about blind rage as a defense. Blind rage means you have lost the ability to judge right and wrong, you are not acting on your own volition, but instead acting only on animal instinct.

[sakabatou]

27. Ach...

:banghead:

[JVS]

38. What a fucking maniac!

[progmom]

56. .

:popcorn:

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

64. .

yes, these are always such fun. :eyes:

[Shell Beau]

70. For sure!!

:popcorn:

[short bus president]

71. Am I the only one who read this headline

and wondered who killed Tony Blair, and who were the two men * shot?

[Dukkha]

84. shotgun blasts to the legs is pretty extreme

I would've just killed the pit bull myself

[LisaL]

90. He might have tried to kill the pit bull. But maybe he just was a

really bad shot.

[Shell Beau]

93. Riiiight!

:eyes: If there were people near the dog, he should have refrained from shooting. Give me a break!

[flvegan]

94. Especially since buckshot means it's a shotgun

A precise instrument when trying to hit one thing right next to another.

Jeez.

[RetroLounge]

92. Another reason they should outlaw Poodles

Damn temptresses...

:sarcasm:

RL