I know this sounds crazy but Phoenix seems more progressive than Tucson...

[noahmijo]

I've lived in Tucson for nearly 15 years now, I've been to Phoenix before for concerts but little else.

Recently I spent 2 days primarily in the downtown area and driving around Tempe and Chandler and a little around Scottsdale taking in everything from the Arizona Mills mall to Chinatown.

First off driving around Phoenix is a complete and total pleasure compared to Tucson. Sounds crazy to you native Phoenix people but try driving around with as much congestion as you have in Phoenix with ONE freeway while you at least have a few plus they are well constructed and connected.

Ultimately Phoenix seems to understand that is a big and growing city unlike Tucson. I say it's progressive because Phoenix culture seems to embrace change more than it tries to suppress say like Tucson.

Oh sure I know everyone will have stories about psycho neo-cons I know the Viper Militia and started down there ect and Sherriff Joe, I know you got tons of yahoos but you know what? we got em all here in Tucson as well but worse we don't have an opposition to balance them out.

Phoenix being a real a city from what I can tell at least seems to have a large number of real city people who act like city people who embrace change. Also quite amazingly although this varies I know I know, these last two days I saw a ratio of nearly 5 to 1 people with progressive bumper stickers to bush/neo con type stickers.

So overall I expected to see a city with twice as many yahoos as Tucson with a few more touristy type attractions and instead I discovered a real hell of a cool city out here in the desert that I never knew existed. It is far cleaner than Tucson has far more innovation and ::gasp:: actually has an economy not based entirely on art and tourism.

Hey look I love art but you don't base the economy of a city of nearly a million on art.

So really why can't Tucson become like Phoenix? who is stopping it? well some might say it's the damn liberals who suppress everything and want to preserve everything.

Well out in Phoenix I saw more art than I ever saw in Tucson and clearly tradition especially Native American art is not lost just by looking at the freeways you can see that.

Not to mention liberals believe it or not DO NOT call the shots in Tucson; we have a Republican mayor and a Republican city council.......the only elected Democrats we have is the county attourney and the sherriff...everything else is Republican across the board....

Well I could go on and on but you're bored by now so all I can say is hats off to Phoenix a really cool city which could become even more progressive as people start moving there who bring progressive ideals with them. Someday I just may move up there given so far the massive amount of jobs I've found searching online in the tech field.

Oh yea I had run ins with neo con type hicks during my time in Phoenix but it was no worse than the types I deal with everyday in Tucson. Plus with sooooo much more to do in Phoenix if you're having a bad day just hang out with the Chinese or go see a movie at the iMax theater it'll take your mind off anything. In Tucson if you wanna take your mind off anything you.............go see a movie........and that's about it.

So I know all the Tucson Pride brigade is gonna come out at me pitchforks raised but really explain to me why Phoenix a supposedly staunch conservative city has its shit together and why Tucson, a "liberal" city can't even create any attractions besides a Loew's theater.

[ForrestGump]

1. Darn. Always loved Tucson and hated Phoenix.

Tucson always felt right to me, whereas Phoenix is one of a few cities that just felt entirely wrong and was basically a place that I couldn't get out of fast enough. Of course, most of my experience of the two cities is based on my time thereabouts 20 years ago, so it's possible that things are entirely different now.

[noahmijo]

2. Even the "Democrats" in Tucson are nothing but moderate cons

Sure ALOT of you out there are true progressives, but the majority of Democrats I've met in Tucson living here all these years are in fact limo liberals who are just as scared of Mexicans who weren't born in Arizona just as racist as Republicans just aren't cold hearted enough to perform a hate crime.

So I figure in Phoenix it's pretty much the same except more of a big city attitude and far more to do and a far healthier environment both economy and quality of life wise.

[enigmatic]

3. I lived in Phoenix for most of the 90's

tolerated it, and went to Flagstaff, Bisbee, and Tucson when I could. Tempe is ok, but I wouldn't move back to the Valley again if you paid me.

I admit missing Honey Bear's BBQ and Mrs. White's Golden Rule Cafe, though..

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. Phoenix, maybe, but when you take the valley as a whole

Mesa has a way of averaging everything far right.

[noahmijo]

5. That's exactly what Oro Valley and Marana do for Tucson

[Celeborn Skywalker]

6. Hmmmmm..... interesting.

I've always liked Tucson better, though I admit I've spent much more time there than Phoenix.

[bliss_eternal]

7. Martin Luther King's birthday? Anyone there recognize it?

Until they do, they all suck as far as I'm concerned...

[ThoughtCriminal]

9. It's been a State Holiday since 1992 -nm

[bliss_eternal]

11. Yay! Glad to hear it...!

:woohoo:

Sorry I'm so late on my Arizona information...

[demzilla]

8. Chinatown? What Chinatown?!

Do you mean that two-story strip mall off the freeway with the pagoda-style roofs? Because Phoenix has no defined Chinatown of any kind. There are Chinese and Asian restaurants scattered around the Valley, but there is no "Chinatown."

As to Phoenix v. Tucson, metro Phoenix is like four times the size, so there's more of everything, good and bad. Tucson has more funky charm, more interesting old housing stock, and the university influence is more noticeable, at least in the center of town. So is the influence of Hispanic culture. The vibe feels less white bread, at least from a distance. And I love the annual gem shows!

[Zomby Woof]

10. Phoenix has no soul

Politics aside, it is the most soulless, boring major city in America. And the drivers are hyper-aggressive, phallic assholes. Hey, I live in LA, so this opinion has weight. At least here, people are occasionally courteous, and you don't have to hit 90 just to pass the slow lane. Not so in the Libertarian Cowboy paradise known as Phoenix (aka Hell).

[blondeatlast]

12. Downtown has emerged as a largely LW area.

Lots of gays, lots of educated arts types, lots of professionals in the creative fields. It's in a process of rebirth and I LOVE it. (I work downtown, live up north some).

I also think that we are more inclined to make ourselves known nowadays.

I know it's easy and popular to hate Phoenix, but I happen to love it here.

FWIW, I love the relaxed Tucson atmosphere as well. I don't see much of a comparison though, as Tucson is MUCH smaller now (when I movede to AZ, though, that was not the case).