Note to All: You use that word so much...

[RaulGroom]

I do not think it means what you think it means.

I have been sitting on this for years. It's been boiling inside me and I've got to let it out.

sarcasm: a cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.

irony: The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.

THE WORD YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS IRONY. Sarcasm has a much more specific meaning.

As you were.

[nini]

1. what are you talking about?

any particular reference you can point to?

:shrug:

[RaulGroom]

6. On all message boards I've ever been a part of

The word "sarcasm" is used to mean that the intended meaning is the opposite of the literal meaning. The practice is particularly widespread here.

In reality, this is "irony." This just drives me insane, much like the "infer, imply" problem and the lesser-known mixup of "diatribe" (which connotes denunciation) and "screed" (which simply means a long harangue of any sort.)

What's truly funny about this is that the word "ironic" is used in so many instances where it's not appropriate (having come to mean simply any coincidence at all, especially among sports broadcasters) while it has fallen almost completely out of this usage, its primary dictionary meaning.

[Heidi]

7. Why are you giving others' misuse of the language the power

to drive you "insane"?

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[nini]

15. Message boards have users with wide degrees of English skills

From spelling - to grammar - to what you describe. It's just part of the reality of the world.

I don't let that stuff get to me. There are far too many horrible issues in this world to worry about.

[notadmblnd]

2. there's gotta be one in every bunch

doesn't there? I just get annoyed at the self appointed grammer and spelling cops on DU. Not everyone here at DU has the same level of education and really.. don't you think there are much more important issues to discuss? As long at the writer gets their point across, why complain?

anyway.. welcome to DU

[Chichiri]

3. Actually . . .

"Irony" refers to a state of affairs, not a use of words. It refers to a result that is the opposite to, and mockery of, the appropriate result.

For example, if Rush Limbaugh is struck and killed by a runaway car, that is an accident.

If Limbaugh is struck and killed by Randi Rhodes' runaway car, that is a coincidence.

If Limbaugh is struck and killed by Sean Hannity's runaway car, that is a bit of an irony.

If Limbaugh is struck and killed by the runaway car of the lawyer who kept him from going to jail because of his illegal drug use, that's a bigger irony.

If Limbaugh is beaten to death by the doctor who, all those decades ago, very probably saved Limbaugh's life by keeping him from going to Vietnam due to a zit on his ass, that's a BIG irony.

If after this happens I remark, "Good thing he got the military training in Vietnam that saved his life from that brutal assault," that is sarcasm.

[RoBear]

8. Beautiful!

You're a genius!!! That aside, however, I'm afraid the "irony/sarcasm" distinction is about to be lost, much like the battle against "hopefully."

[Schema Thing]

14. love it.

[RaulGroom]

16. True, yet not true

In most dictionaries (including the American Heritage, the one I'm using via Dictionary.com) the primary definition of "irony" does indeed have to do with the use of words.

You can be forgiven for not knowing this, since the word has fallen almost completely out of this usage due to the problem I'm identifying.

What makes this even funnier is the fact you note, which is that "irony" has come to mean basically any coincidence, especially among sports broadcasters, who are guilty of all manner of sins against the language.

BTW though the paraphrasing of material among comics is certainly widespread, if not accepted, you'd do well to give a hat tip to George Carlin here, as he did this routine (with different examples) for many years.

NOTE TO THOSE WHO ARE EXPRESSING DISGUST: I understand your feelings. However, you will notice I have not called out any specific person, and that I have posted this in the lounge, a fairly unserious place. I have never once corrected anyone's grammar or spelling on DU (and thanks for the welcome, but I've been here for ages, just don't post much.) It's just that I felt after all these years of biting my tongue I simply had to say something or I would explode.

Also, my level of education is that I'm a high school graduate. The way I learn the real meaning and usage of words is that when someone tells me I'm using something incorrectly, I remember what they've said rather than attacking them and getting my feelings hurt. As far as I know this path is open to anyone and costs nothing.

Just the other day a coworker noted that my answer to his question about how often I connect to the office network from home, "very occasionally," should actually be "very infrequently." I've used the phrase "very occasionally" for years without realizing it makes no sense. I'll probably continue to use it in speech, but I won't write it again.

[Chichiri]

18. It was Carlin? I thought it was Robin Williams who did that bit.

Oh well.

[RaulGroom]

27. Could very well be

As I said there's a lot of theft among comics. It's quite taboo to make a big deal about theft of material, so it's possible RW did the routine for a while, then GC picked it up. All I know is I saw Carlin do it, with some bit about a diabetic getting hit by a sugar truck, then an insulin truck. Funny stuff.

[skygazer]

60. For someone who is in a snit about the use of words

You have poor grammar.

"my level of education is that I'm a high school graduate."

Very poor grammar indeed. In fact, you continually use the word "that" in inappropriate places, such as -

"The way I learn the real meaning and usage of words is that when someone tells me I'm using something incorrectly, I remember what they've said rather than attacking them and getting my feelings hurt."

This whole sentence is awkward. A better way to put it would be "I learn word meaning and usage by listening and remembering when someone tells me I've used something incorrectly."

Now, I hope you remember this and refrain from attacking me. Oh, and I hope I didn't hurt your feelings.

[youthere]

62. If Rush Limbaugh is struck and killed by the runaway bride...

Is that irony, coincidence, or just plain good luck?

[Rich Hunt]

4. "sarcasm"

Frankly, I don't like the sarcasm emoticon on DU. I don't like how it's dripping with blood. People can use it as a veiled threat, and they do.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

13. I don't think that's necessarily supposed to be blood

I always thought that was a visualization of the phrase "dripping with sarcasm".

[youthere]

63. You're right...

It doesn't have to be blood..it could be Kool-aid or anti-freeze or really runny strawberry jam.
(I keed I keed)

[sam sarrha]

5. maybe its just Cynical here.. incredulous of sincerity and goodness..??

:shrug:

[merh]

9. Thanks so for using the broad brush.

How ironic it is that you don't appreciate the insulting components as contained in your attempt at sarcasm. :shrug:

:hi:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

10. How were you sitting on something that was boiling inside you?

Anyway, I hope you feel better now that you stopped
sitting on it. Really. No, really.

[progmom]

12. ...

:spray:

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[Debi]

52. KAB

Hug Me :cry:

[Kingshakabobo]

57. LOL

:hug:

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[jpgray]

56. I want to know what sort of weirdass flamewar was fought here (nt)

[Kingshakabobo]

58. Looks like it was a whopper. I always miss all the fun. n/t

[youthere]

64. Grammar war

Ironic ain't it? Or is that sarcastic? Ah hell.

[imperialismispasse]

17. Oh boy I've probably made this mistake

I am not too great on spelling, grammer, punctuation. It's weird because I speak well in person. But with writing it's a lot harder for me. But I try to be as clear as possible and get my point across. Isn't that what counts? Sorry if I drove you crazy.

[northzax]

19. there's only one problem here...

your own definition states that sarcasm is often a form of irony. And, as common experience will tell us, sarcasm is most often identified by vocal tones, english being a language that communicates much more orally than in written format. Therefore, since the only difference between sarcastic irony and simple irony is the intent to wound (which is expressed using non-language clues, such as tone of voice) the very application of the 'sarcasm' tag makes and ironic statement into a sarcastic one.

example:
"Thank you for pointing that out to everyone." as a response to your post could either be honest and taken at face value, or it could be sarcastic irony. you can't tell from reading it, but if I said it to you, you would have an idea. The only way you can tell is context, and you have no context.

[RaulGroom]

29. Hey, only you can decide if you're using it correctly

But on the macro- scale, the simple fact that you almost NEVER see the word "irony" used with this meaning implies that "sarcasm" is often being used in its place.

Again, I'm not calling any particular person out here. But common sense tells me that "sarcasm" is being used very often to mean simply "irony." The pejorative has driven out the non-pejorative.

Another example of this problem is "diatribe" vs. "screed." "Diatribe" connotes denunciation, whereas "screed" is simply a long harangue of any sort. "Screed" has largely fallen out of use, having been replaced by the pejorative "diatribe" even in non-pejorative use.

[northzax]

30. I think that's related to Jimmy Jazz's point

that there is no 'irony' smiley, which makes the default the :sarcasm: tag?

[RaulGroom]

33. Hmm, that's a distinct possibility

Note that I didn't say a "definite possibility." ;-D

[northzax]

43. hey, when you're done with it...

can I borrow that hair-splitter? it'll really come in handy in GD, I think! :toast:

[JimmyJazz]

44. I call dibs on the soapbox!

[kick-ass-bob]

21. No, I think that's what I mean when I use it.

[JimmyJazz]

23. "Grammar Nazis on the Loose" was last week's theme in the lounge -

this week's is "Let's Not Jump Up On A Soapbox When It Comes To Other Peoples' Grammar In An Effort To Make Oneself Appear Smart."

BTW - Have you ever seen an irony smilie? I didn't think so. ;)

[Debi]

Could sadfucksmilie work for irony?

In "they just don't get it...."

[northzax]

25. that's "nazis" there is no need for the possessive!

and it's "peoples'" plural. what kind lounge lizard are you anyway? only freepers make that kind of mistake...did you learn NOTHING last week? :)

[JimmyJazz]

28. waht? I corrected teh misteak. Thanx.

[northzax]

35. 'missteak' please!

c'mon now, how are you ever going to infiltrate freeperville if you don't learn you some good english? :evilgrin:

[JimmyJazz]

46. I would NEVER try to infiltrate freeperville!

I don't want to have to be deloused upon my return :(

[northzax]

49. ooh, you have a point

I hear they have LOUS over there.

[Debi]

38. JJ

:hug:

[Misunderestimator]

55. Here's an "Irony" Smilie...

hehehe

[Misunderestimator]

31. I heart Irony.

But... on edit...

[Misunderestimator]

34. Now THIS... THIS is IRONY:

[northzax]

37. good point!

although the patuxent river is just grimy enough to make it believeable...

[RaulGroom]

39. That Omalley site is funny

Is that your site?

[Misunderestimator]

48. Nope... just found the pic there.

[gmoney]

41. "Oh, a sarcasm detector... that's a REALLY useful invention."

[northzax]

50. 41st post before Comic Book Guy makes an appearance!

a new Lounge Record!

[gmoney]

54. That one was on the other day...

"How many gazebos do you she-males need?"

(Homer referring to Stephen Hawking) "Larry Flynt is right!"

[nytemare]

59. My word is "acerbic"

Sometimes, "caustic". "Austere" on occasion.

:hi:

[Redstone]

61. No. If you're referring to the "sarcasm smiley," you're wrong.

People use it to indicate that they are being sarcastic, so nobody else misunderstands their intention.

Doesn't have anything to do with irony, in those cases.

Redstone

[A-Schwarzenegger]

65. Is there a "parody" smilie?