I'm watching Dr. Phil while I'm cleaning...and there is a woman on there..

[Maddy McCall]

who is such a jerk. Here's the back story.

Woman A had a baby and had to give it up for adoption when she was 15. Woman B and all of her galpals followed Woman A around in highschool and called Woman A names like slut, whore, skank.

Woman A has had a sad life, never being able to get over the adoption or the teasing she withstood. Woman B, on Dr. Phil right now, is saying that she doesn't remember teasing the woman when they were girls, and Woman A should just get over it.

How insensitive!

Oh well, back to cleaning.

[Shell Beau]

1. Kids can be so mean. At least as adults you should

have grown up enough to admit your mistakes and apologize which woman B obviously hasn't done.

[Pithlet]

16. Some people never get beyond high school mentality.

They're sad and pathetic people who can never leg go of the rush they had being at the top of the food chain in the small, insular society that highschool was. When they go out in the real world and find they're now in a much bigger pond, they cling to that period of their lives with everything they've got, and annoy the rest of us.

[northzax]

2. high school, in general, sucks

kids are mean, often without understanding that they are mean. Part of growing up is realising that it was all bullshit. That's what's great about reunions, ten or 15 years out, the slate is wiped clean, and you are what you have become, you've had the chance to reinvent yourself.

that doesn't mean that bullying and the like shouldn't be dealt with, but they should be dealt with while people are in school, I've always thought it a little pathetic to be worried about it ten years later.

[tjdee]

3. It affects who you are....

How is it pathetic?

If me and my popular, well liked friends tell you you're ugly (for example) every day for four years, wouldn't that have some effect on you?

I think in this case, though, the woman is more upset about the adoption and the teasing was a byproduct of that. So she's dealing with one big issue IMO.

The show goes to prove, though, that what's so important to you doesn't mean anything to some people. :shrug:

[northzax]

4. of course it would

but to return in 10 years expecting someone else to remember high school the same way you did is not a good way to deal. I'm 12 years out of high school and certainly not the same person I was back then (thank god) there are things I am proud of, and things I am not proud of from that era, and I have to tell you, I have to think real hard to remember the people I didn't like. it was a long time ago.

now, there are exceptions to the rule, and this woman, who had a seriously traumatic experience (not like the pitiful traumas that seem so important to us all at 16) seems to fit the bill (I'd put serious physical bullying, sexual assualt there as well.) But I was watching Maury the other day (don't ask) and they were bringing people back who were simply teased, or weren't asked to the Prom to get their 'revenge' by looking great. That is pathetic.

teasing is a part of life, bullying should not be. there is a difference.

on edit: and as for you and your 'popular friends?' did you see Heathers?

[Chovexani]

5. You must not have been bullied in school

When I was in school, "teasing" would have been way more humane than what I went through. There is some really hardcore shit going on, and the victims generally have little recourse except to change schools (or make the mistake of dropping out, like I did).

I've been out of HS for a few years now but I am fucked up over it to this day. And probably will be for life, barring therapy I can't afford. I'm far from alone in this, too.

[Sanity Claws]

8. I think things have gotten worse since some of us

were in school. I went to high school in the 1970s(Please don't do the math -- I'm sure you're good at it!) and there was teasing but not the vicious stuff I've heard about or what you describe. The lines between the cliques also seem harder to cross and it seems that everyone must be in some kind of clique or group for protection.
So sorry that you had to go through that crap.
I wonder what explains the difference. Maybe the whole world has gotten meaner.

[northzax]

13. that's why I said that bullying is unacceptable

it is the responsiblity of the school to stop it (I know, they don't) there is a difference between cruelty and teasing, although the line may be hard to define, it's one of those 'you know it when you see it' situations. you can enforce civility, at least in public, but you can't make people actually be nice to each other.

and I chose boarding school over my previous high school to escape the cruelty, so I do know of what I speak.

[grace0418]

7. I'm not the same person I was in high school either. But if someone

came to me and told me that something I did to them really hurt them and has affected them ever since, I would at least have the decency to apologize, even if I didn't remember it well or the same way. That woman on Dr. Phil sounds awful. But then, I think that show is awful.

[northzax]

12. we have to remember

that this is Dr. Phil we're talking about, anyone willing to go on that show in the first place has some problems (almost everyone could do with a little, or a lot of, therapy, but on national telelvision? that ain't therapy, it's a curcus sideshow) you go on to be confrontational, that's what the masses want to watch.

and, of course, decent people like you are kinda self selecting not to be there. If this woman had said, "look, it's no excuse, but I was in high school and an asshole then, I'm really sorry about the pain I caused you" then it would be hard to fill the rest of the segment, right?

[grace0418]

14. Good point.

She's still a bitch, but you have a good point. Which is why I don't watch any of those shows.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. I agree with that point. One thing the DSM tells us is that many

disorders are reinforced by the secondary gain the patient gets from having the disorder. Secondary gain can be in the form of attention, so these TV shrinks are actually reinforcing the disorders they claim they are helping.

I don't agree with your first point upthread, however. Our past often seeps into our present whether we were the victim or perpetrator. Every experience in life leads to conscious or unconscious decisions about how life really is and we live out of those decisions.

As for filling the rest of the segment, if she said that, the segment COULD be filled with what is possible when people acknowledge their transgressions...who knows?

[northzax]

18. acknowledge their trransgressions?

a god thing sure, but it's hardly good TeeVee, first Dr. Phil has to use some pseudo-folksy cliches to show people the error of their ways, THEN they can repent.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. And that's why the show is bullshit.. probably the person with the

greatest disorder is Dr Phil...narcissistic tendencies with mixed emotional features!

[miss_kitty]

9. I've been out of High school over 30 years now

and there is no way I'd spend a second with the motherfuckers I went to school with. My school was so bad, Donahue featured it years after I graduated from it on one of his last shows. Nothing had changed.

I don't care how 'over it' my tormentors are of the treatment they dished out for years. While I have moved on-I will not forget or really forgive people for whom cruelty is apparently so second nature to them, they don't recall the shit they did.

You must not have been hectored, pushed around and bullied for years on end.

[SmokingJacket]

10. It's hard to explain why I would happily press the gas pedal if

one of those assholes from high school was standing in front of my car, but I would.

I'm over it, I've moved on, by any measure I'm certainly one of the more successful people in my graduating class... but for some reason my rage has not dimmed over the years. They might have forgotten, but I have not.

Somewhere I read a quote, forgot by who, that said, "Kids will forget anything except injustice. They always remember injustice."

I guess that's what it's all about.

[Coventina]

21. How is there a difference between "mean" and "bullying"?

Is making fun of poor kids' clothes "mean" or "bullying"?

I say it's both.

[Left Is Write]

23. The long-lasting ripple effect and scars of torment...

don't just magically disappear when one gets out of school.

High school was pretty good for me, overall.

Junior high school was a living hell for me. It's been 26 years since I was in 8th grade, but the detriment to my self-esteem and self-respect took years and years and years to overcome.

So maybe I'm pathetic. How long do you think it should take to recover from the systematic destruction of one's self-esteem? Hell, I'm one of the lucky ones - I had a good support system at home. I shudder to think about those who have a hellish school life and no support at home.

[barb162]

24. A few years ago we were putting together a high school reunion

and a really super nice guy wouldn't come to it because of the crap some people put him through in high school.

"The long-lasting ripple effect and scars of torment..."

don't just magically disappear.... "

I suspect they never really disappear

[Zuni]

6. wow....what a jerk

:hi:

[youthere]

11. It just shows that some people never grow up

and those uber popular bullies never get over themselves..

OFF TOPIC
I caught like the last 5 minutes of DP today-tuned in when they were showing the previews off the new season and they showed this woman that was embarrassed to go out in public with her daughter (elementary aged) because she was fat. She called her own kid "scum". Yikes.

[China_cat]

17. Did Dr. Phil do his usual

and agree with Woman B?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. My teenage years were miserable because of bullying, and

whenever an adult told me, "Cheer up. These are the best years of your life," I couldn't help wondering who pathetic their subsequent life had been.

By the way, that statement about high school being the best years of my life were absolutely untrue.

Graduate school was the best years of my life.

[northzax]

22. 'best years of your life'

is the stupidest thing to say to someone who's miserable, "hey, life sucks? well guess what? it's only getting worse! hahaha."

and somehow, I don't think that the people for whom high school is the apex have grad school in mind. Or undergrad, for that matter.

Look at proms. It was supposed to be the one big fancy night before you entered adulthood. but if you're going to college, then who the fuck cares about Prom? The one thing to say to the people on the social heirarchy in high school is "karma, baby, karma" and then show them some John hughes movies.