It's interesting how people reveal their true colors in times of crisis.

[progmom]

x(

If even people who call themselves liberals cannot have compassion, what hope do we have?

[demnan]

1. I don't know

It does seem to be a cold-hearted world these days. I think everyone is exhausted with their own problems and lacking the compassion to care.

[progmom]

7. yes, that has a lot to do with it, I am sure.

:(

[johnnie]

2. Where?

What are people saying?

[northzax]

11. I think this is another reference

to the people (like myself) who find looting unethical and definately illegal.

[progmom]

17. it's not all about you.

:hi:

[Thtwudbeme]

27. I looked at pictures of those looters

every single one that I saw were trying to get food. I did not see one with anything other than food.

If I were in their shoes, I would be doing the same thing; survival first.

I find stealing unethical, I find tryng to survive scary.

[northzax]

28. as long as you admit it's unethical

I have no problem with you.

And anyone trying to survive would be looking to get out, looting while the aftermath of the storm is still going on is not survival, it's looting. There were no deliberated ethical problems, people just started taking stuff. The short term breakdown of society does not excuse immediate participation in criminal activity.

I regret the seeming celebration by people on this board of the social breakdown, that people are simply stealing. I don't see a lot of sadness that this is going on, or a resignation, but spirited, angry defenses of it, sort of that it is not only to be expected that there is looting, but also the right of the people remaining to help themselves to whatever they wish, that it's only stealing from 'rich' people, so it's all ok.

I find it strange that when my comment is, as it bascially has been, that stealing is unethical and illegal, but there are circumstances in which you have to pick the lesser of two evils, I am greeted with such anger and hostility (from many, not all, I can think of two exceptions in particular who were rational, at least) for questioning that there may, in fact, be a grey area, that discussion is impossible. It's like this is an article of faith that is unquestionable: during a hurricane, you can loot all you want (general tone, not YOU in particular) and that suggesting this may, in fact, be wrong is like telling a Bushbot that there are no WMDs in Iraq. You don't get a rational response, you get someone turning purple with rage and calling you names. It's just interesting, that's all.

[bettyellen]

38. i don't think ethics are a concern when there is no place else to get food

i don't feel bad in any way for people who have been through this horror and take what we all know is written off as garbage anyway. including dry clothes and warm beer.
don't you worry your head about it, they ain't taking a penny of any company's profits- the storm did that. but you want to blame the people who didn't have the option or know how to leave for hurting business, and that's a mite more distasteful than the things people do when they have to to survive.

[Redstone]

43. You just don't fucking get it, do you?

You said "And anyone trying to survive would be looking to get out"..

They don't have any fucking way to get out,, you pontificating idiot.

Now do you understand? Is this clear enough for you?

You simply are NOT qualified to make a judgement on these people, because you are not there.

Redstone

[RPM]

52. thank you

I hope that is lucid enough...

[progmom]

14. can you believe it?

people are being extraordinarily un-compassionate. they're applying a very rigid person value system to people in crisis - people who are, it seems, in a life-or-death situation. it's blowing my mind. what about yours?

[johnnie]

24. Well

I have made my thoughts known on the subject. As I have said, I really am not thinking about that stuff right now. I am more concerned with people who are stuck in their attics, in demolished buildings and other places.
The toll on human lives has only started. My thoughts on crime down there right now are pretty much irrelevant.

[Fenris]

3. I see you've been to GD recently...

x(

[progmom]

5. yes.

yes. x(

[Fenris]

13. Nice to see the mods got to that thread.

;)

[Redstone]

46. And it ain't just GD. See message #28 right here in this thread.

Redstone

[Double T]

4. Unfortunately, the 'I've got mine' syndrome pervades a large segment....

of the entire population

[progmom]

6. yes.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. Well, anyone can register a username at DU (nt)

[progmom]

9. if only i could believe that explained all of it

:(

[skygazer]

10. Just came back from GD

Yeah, there are some very strange comments out there. I think I have to go wash off. :scared:

[progmom]

26. ...

:hug:

[sui generis]

12. this is not a competition to see who is the most compassionate

that would be crass -

some people get more emotionally involved than others, but to be fair there are people here who are shrilly demanding histrionics and wailing and gnashing of the teeth, and quite frankly I don't like that at all either. They are being very judgemental of people who are more reserved. We get too much of that from the other side telling us cry and be outraged on cue and then getting mad at us when we don't - we shouldn't have to face it here.

There are some asshats here though, you are right.

Also remember that people react to emotional demands with anger, being flippant, defensiveness, because they don't know HOW to react, not because they're showing their true colors as bad people.

And of course, as usual, there really are some asshats.

:hi:

[jonnyblitz]

22. great post. particulary the first paragraph..

I concur. :thumbsup: :hi:

[progmom]

23. i can't argue with that.

:hi:

You might be reading a meaning into my post that isn't there. I am not asking for wailing or gnashing of teeth. I am just a little disturbed that there are so many people whose response to this is "they should have gotten their asses out of there."

[sui generis]

29. Progmom I know is not

a wailing teeth gnasher! I was referring to having my ass feathers lightly scorched on another thread.

There are people who are asking/saying that "why didn't they get out when they could" - we should educate, not attack though. Some of us really are going too far and not winning any hearts or minds.

There are complicated reasons that people didn't get out. It's not all black or white - and there are some people who knew better and didn't get out or made decisions for other people and there were some people who didn't know at all and there were some people who couldn't get out for whatever reasons.

It's not a matter of blame - it's a matter of responsibility, and that's the nuance that's getting lost on some of the other threads.

All of that aside, it could have been a hundred times worse. So far this is not shaping up to be a human disaster as much as a natural disaster, and this is what happens in a Cat 5 storm, and worse. All we can do is our part to make things better and avoid the things we see were mistakes the "next" time this happens, and it will inevitably happen again.

[jonnyblitz]

36. i wasn't even thinking of progmom when i read your post.

I hope i didn't imply that.

[tigereye]

45. nicely said

none of this stuff is simple and there are no simple answers. People need our compassion and help at this point. All the other stuff is kind of moot.

[Redstone]

47. No, there are SIMPLE reasons "why they didn't get out"

I'm not arguing with you, rather I'm offering some support for your post.

The reason why those folks didn't get out is NOT complicated; the simple reason is that these are people who don't own a car.

Redstone

[nini]

15. We've become a nation numb to reality

We aren't supposed to see what's 'really' going on anymore.

We aren't supposed to think for ourselves. but let Fox news tell us 'they were told to get out' when seeing a man desperate after losing his wife and home.


We aren't supposed to care about anyone about ourselves or our bank accounts anymore.

We arent' supposed to question a lying government.

Looks like even some liberals are succumbing to the behavior modification. Some people are just having to shut down to be able to deal with raelity these days. There's simply too much to absorb for some.

We have become so numb to reality we don't even remember how to feel other's pain and be compassionate human beings anymore. Compassion has become a sign of weakness in Bushco's America.



:(

[Hugin]

16. I'm worried about several of our fellow loungers...

Who are among those many thousands of people who
have been affected by this terrible disaster.

*sigh*

Where do I start?

[progmom]

19. all circuits (still) busy....

x(

[Hugin]

25. double that...

x( x(

[LynneSin]

18. My only problem with donating......

...payday is tomorrow

I'll be anteing up tomorrow when I have some cash in my checking account

:D

[SOteric]

20. True, true.

But look how many amazingly compassionate people there are here, too.

And a big ol hug & kiss to the admins for putting up the links to hurricane disaster relief. I know from experience that DUers can be both compassionate and generous even when they themselves are suffering.

[progmom]

21. you're right. thanks.

:hug:

[Zomby Woof]

30. I can say that about a lot of DUers on a LOT of subjects

Natural disasters is definitely high on the list of bringing out the worst in some "liberals". You should have seen the threads when California had an (pick one) earthquake/mudslide/flood, or when tornadoes hit the midwest, etc.

Then there is the misogyny, the subtle racism (the immigration threads), and the regional (southern, usually) bashing threads.

I sometimes get sick of it all, and wonder why I persist around here.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

33. You persist, my dear Zomby, because

you are a very good man, and because we love you....

And THAT'S the ZombyTruth....

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[Zomby Woof]

34. Thank you LP!

:blush:

[bridgit]

35. my sense is that i understand what you're referring to, zw...

and to be sure these are my thoughts, but sentiments such as these "I am hypersensitive to the suffering of others...always have been" while they, us, we; snark & ignore ONE ANOTHER; or dispense what we know to be psychic disruptor's for crying out loud, are hollow at best.

disaster is regional. were this country to be no bigger than a postage stamp it would all be different. but it is not. dropping names as to parties attended while the world is coming undone is tacky to say the least. yes, yes; we are grand in our ignorance. of that there can be no doubt.

better to start my own thread & see what shakes out, yes :hi:

[Zomby Woof]

37. Damn, you're prescient

Yeah. Nailed perfectly. :hi:

[progmom]

39. hey bridgit....

i'm having trouble understanding your meaning here. can you explain?

[bridgit]

40. you have to be shitting me...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3938754&mesg_id=3939739

[progmom]

42. i'm not shitting you

and i'm more lost than ever.

[bridgit]

44. in the end as in the beginning, progmom...

it may not be truly about either one of us, if at all interested in my life & the way in which i see it, then pm me for the big "out reach", but then digest it in earnest & answer back, soon we may be friends somehow. otherwise, the world is being broken down 'barney style' before our very eyes & i give you far more credit than i think you realize; here's hoping that short of being friends you may be able to reciprocate in kind

[progmom]

48. will do.

:hi:

[Heidi]

56. I'm not sh!tting either of you:

I adore you both and feel blessed to be in the company of such cool women. :loveya: bridgit and progmom.

[progmom]

59. and i adore you

:hug:

[salin]

50. for me, because there are always counter voices

both private and public - and because those post(er)s remind us how pervasive those areas of bigotries are... for those of us who do not daily face subtle bigotry - those posts are an ugly reminder of how prevalent these attitudes are - and how likely that folks behavior mirrors those attitudes. Granted this only has a positive effect when more counter voices appear in response to the bigotry (be it class based, race based, or gender based bigotry.)

[billyskank]

31. Oh dear

What's been happening?

[In_The_Wind]

32. That's when you find out who your true friends are!

[bicentennial_baby]

41. You got that right

Too true... x(

[progmom]

55. hey there

:hug:

[bicentennial_baby]

57. hi

i'm going to bed now..hurricane overload...but i'm going to visit DUers tommorrow, so i am happy. :)

:hug:

[progmom]

58. have a great time.

;)

[dolo amber]

49. I'm purple

:silly:

Hang in there, proggy...Have faith that Darwin will not fail us now. ;):hug:

[progmom]

54. hey chickie

really nice to see you back on the boards.

:hug:

[RPM]

51. damn - thought this was another badmouth the looters thread

:crazy:

[progmom]

53. naw...i think we have enough of those now

:hi:

[The empressof all]

60. locking

I really don't know what else to add here right now other than this has run it's course