Isn't Classy Stripclub an Oxymoron?

[KitchenWitch]

just askin'.

[Robeson]

1. I think "Classy Stripclub" means that they windex the chrome dance-poles..

...more than a non classy one does. But, that's just a guess.

[CanuckAmok]

17. No, a "Classy" stripclub charges $11 for a beer instead of the standard $8

Actually, there's a "Classy" strip club in Vancouver: Brandi's.

They have a strict dress code (I find that ironic when half the people in the place are naked), and are couples/women friendly.

I haven't been there since I was married, but a friend of mine bartends there, and she says she prefers it to any other lounge she's ever worked in.

Here's an interesting article about Brandi, the Turkish-born Moslem woman who owns it:

http://www.vanmag.com/0204/dance_queen.html

Take this with a grain of salt, however; the rumour is that she's just a front... that Brandi's is actually owned by "other elements".

[Heidi]

2. Only if you believe

strip clubs are inherently classless. (I don't think that.)

[KitchenWitch]

3. Most of the ones around here are real dives

[Heidi]

6. Everyone should have a clean and safe working environment. nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

4. Let us say that some are more classy than others

It's hard to call any place classy where women display their private parts to men who stare at them as though they were seeing the promised land.

However, some strip clubs are actually clean and smell normal, with new plush arm chairs and soft theatre lighting and where waitresses address men wearing suit and tie as "sir".

Then there are some that have a dozen sweaty lap dancers working their crotches on the customers in full view just as you enter, where the carpet has a permanent smell of cheap perfume mixed with a "je ne sais female quoi", and the restroom floor has a permanent layer of sticky gunk embedded with used condoms.

[Heidi]

5. Um . . .

What's wrong a person using his or her body to make a living, among consenting adults? I use my hands and mind to make a living, and I don't think this is any more or less classy than taking off my clothes for a living would be. What _harm_ do strippers do? :shrug:

[KitchenWitch]

7. My issue is that in a lot of cases it is the only way women

can make scads of money...even with a college degree, women are often hired as "assistants" rather than into positions of responsibility.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

8. I fully agree that there's nothing wrong with stripping

I've spent many enjoyable hours in a variety of strip clubs and have no problem with consenting adults doing their thing. But just because stripping IS making an honest living doesn't mean it's classy. Few things (at least to me) are classy or deserve being called classy. Ballet, opera, dramatic acting, those activities occuring on a stage are classy to me as occupations. Just because stripping occurs on a stage doesn't elevate it to art or to a discipline with any amount of nuance, subtlety, or intellectual or emotional substance.

[Heidi]

12. I understand what you're saying.

On the other hand, I make my living as an artist, and I don't think my occupation is any more or less classy than stripping. I think being self-sufficient, by whatever legal and safe means, is classy. :shrug:

[Robeson]

11. In theory, I don't disagree with you Heidi....

...one problem with it in the U.S., is that many of these operations are ran by organized crime. So some of the women there are being coerced, more than consenting. If it was a total freedom of choice thing, then I'd have no problem with what you're saying.

[Heidi]

14. I'm too much an idealist, I know,

Robeson. Prostitution is legal here, but it's regulated, and I have no problem with that, either. I just get weary of the government protecting us from our bodies _AND_ protecting our bodies from us. :shrug:

[Robeson]

15. I agree 100%.....

...and it should be legal here to. The fact that its not, is why organzied crime is involved here. But some people in the U.S. have a hard time with logic.

[Heidi]

16. That's because "morality" trumps rational thinking

nearly every time during these dark days in our country, Robeson. Nobody seems to understand the difference between morality and ethics. :shrug: Some things, like murder, are both unethical and immoral; but other things (like prostitution and stripping) are "immoral" but perfectly ethical. (That's just my take on it.)

[Robeson]

18. Yes, ethics have been totally lost in this country....

...in fact, the ruling elite don't even want ethics mentioned. If the leadership in this country believed in ethics, then there wouldn't be corporatism, white collar crimes, illegal invasions, and half of the business schools would have to be shut down. Ethics used to be important. In fact, its much more important of a social glue, than the religious morality that is rampant in this country. One can be ethical and moral without a religious morality. Unfortunately, the ruling religious morality in this country, is without ethics.

[CanuckAmok]

19. I know I have chimed in on this before, but...

...a vast majority of polled prostitutes oppose the legalization of prostitution. They are more in support of "decriminalization" as opposed to outright legalization.

Every society which has completely legalized and regulated prostitution has seen a radical drop in income for prostitures, as competition increases and profit margins shrink in relation to business costs (advertising, work-space, licensing, etc).

Burt that's a whole other thread.

Is that your work, Heidi? I like it. How big is that?

[Heidi]

20. Hi, CanuckAmok . . .

Maybe it's different in Canada than in Europe, and it's not like I have a lot of contact with prostitutes. I argue in favor of legalization from an ethics point of view. I believe the view of the sex industry (not government "higher-ups") should be given more weight than _my_ views, for sure.

Yes, that's one of my paintings. It's mixed media on prepared wood from West Africa, 100 x 100 cm. (Thank you. :blush: )

[Robeson]

21. Wow Heidi....

...do you sell your art, or have a website where it is shown? Let me know, I'd love to see it.

[Heidi]

22. .

Thanks, Robeson. My website is down right now, as Mr. Heidi adds more of my work to it. Web design is his profession and, unfortunately, I have to wait in line behind "paying" customers. :cry:

Thanks for your kind words, friend. (Now, let's not hijack KW's thread into an art appreciation thread. :rofl: )

[Robeson]

23. Hey KitchenWitch doesn't mind. She likes to get these things started...

...to watch the fireworks go off....:D

[Heidi]

24. OK, then knock yourself out with the art appreciation.

:rofl:

[Robeson]

26. LOL....

...But please do let us know when you get your art site up. We'd love to see it, and I'm betting you'd have a built-in base of buyers on this site...;-)

BTW, since KitchenWitch and I have agreed that we think alike, I feel fully confident that I can speak for her on the above statement...:rofl:

[Heidi]

27. You're a sweetie.

Thank you. I'll give Mr. Heidi the guilt treatment in the next few days to finish the site update. I'll let you, and your lovely twin KitchenWitch, know when it's up again. :hug:

[gmoney]

25. Yeah! What Heidi said!

To each, his (or her) own.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Blessed are the rumpshakers. :)

That said, I think the establishments are like any other bars or restaurants -- some are better maintained and cleaner and "classier" than others. But they all have their place -- if they weren't serving a clientele, they would go out of business.

And if you don't like strip clubs and the women who work there, a very simple solution is to not visit them.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

30. But I have visisted them and liked them - it doesn't mean they're classy

I certainly agree with the notion of "to each his own". But just because stripping represents a legitimate, honest living doesn't make it classy. If every legitimate occupation were classy, then nothing would be classy. If everything were colored yellow there would be no color.

Some strip joints are classier than others, newer than others, and cleaner than others, but in my opinion none of them merit being called classy. There's nothing elegant, stylish, intellectually stimulating, emotionally profound, or creative about a woman shaking her ass and spreading her legs in front of gawking men like me. Perhaps at the limit, some old burlesque acts had class. But today's strippers are trying to accomplish the very opposite effect of classy; the object is to be raunchy and blatantly sexual. The raunchier the dancer, the more the guys will tip. Some strip clubs in certain cities like San Francisco permit actual sex acts onstage or on customer tables between women. Other strip clubs have back rooms and couches where virtually anything goes. I've visited too many of these places to count and enjoy them all, but I have not gone there for an elegant or artistically satisfying evening.

[pitohui]

32. not always such a simple solution

more & more a strip club is becoming a meeting place for businessmen -- & a very effective way to keep women out of the decision-making and networking circles

i cannot do business in a place where a person shaped like me is servicing my potential customer by masturbating him w. her ass, it don't work

so strip clubs do cost me & other women who hope to do something besides strip $$$

if women were bonding & making business decisions in clubs where young men were masturbating them for pay, men denied access & ability to move up past a certain level in business would suddenly be screaming

it's all abt whose ox gets gored & whose lap gets danced

quote-a very simple solution is to not visit them.

[mitchum]

33. Yours is an incredibly insightful post

their use as a meeting place does indeed keep women out of decision-making and networking circles

[enigami]

9. No

What are you from Wisconsin or somethin

[enigami]

10. No

What are you from Wisconsin or somethin

[Fox Mulder]

13. Not at all.

I've seen some good ones and some really bad ones.

[gmoney]

28. Isn't a place that describes itself as "classy" inherently not?

"Classy" is such a cheeseball term anymore, I'd stay clear of anyplace that advertised itself as "a classy establishment for classy types." It usually indicates a weird sort of desperation to be taken seriously, like Steve Martin's character in "The Jerk" and his "classy" lifestyle when he strikes it rich.

And isn't America supposed to be a classless society anyway? :rofl:

Just kidding... but frankly, organized crime ain't got nothin' on Halliburton, HMOs, WalMart, or MBNA.

[mitchum]

34. Yep, it rings the same bell as "swanky"

a goon's idea of glamour

[LiveWire]

29. The Rhino is pretty good these days

$20 to get in, 5 for drinks. $40 for lap dances...'nuff said.

[DS1]

31. You've never been to Oahu, have you?

:evilgrin:

[VelmaD]

35. Almost as bad as calling them "Gentlemen's Clubs"...

My definition of a gentleman doesn't include stuffing dollar bills in a stripper's g-string. Maybe it's just me. :shrug:

[edbermac]

36. Al Bundy doesn't think so...

I'm Maharaja Bundy and women with 4 hooters feed me Ding Dongs all day.