Considering teaching - input appreciated

[StellaBlue]

Hello.

I am considering going into teaching; probably secondary English or perhaps middle school English/social studies.

I have a BA and an MA in English, but would have to get certified.

I am considering this because a) I think I would be able to contribute a lot to young people, and I love sharing my knowledge; b) it's a 'good' job - not profit-driven (though, unfortunately, test-driven); c) I like the longer-than-average vacation periods!!! I would spend that time probably teaching abroad or travelling to further educate myself. I would also like to take students on trips if there wasn't too much red tape involved (which of course there is). Ultimately, I would like to be able to do bilingual, though I am nowhere near fluent in Spanish at the moment.

I had a job while doing my BA that involved taking students of all ages on hour-long tours and I have also worked as a tutor to native-Spanish-speaking 'disadvantaged' students, whom I found to be lovely and eager to learn, every one of them. Other than these things, I have no other experience with kids or teaching.

I am organized, thrive on organization and planning, and love to read and learn and talk to people (which is why I am on DU!).

The real-time teachers and former teachers I have spoken to have given very mixed signals; they generally encourage me and say they would like to see me go into teaching and that I would be good at it and find it a good way to utilize my skills outside the for-profit world (which I would really like to avoid working in); but the former teachers also say that there is no way they would go back into it, now that they have good-paying private sector jobs - they always cite the bureaucracy and 'teaching to the test', along with difficult, lazy students and difficult, lazy, excuse-making parents.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

:D

[LizMoonstar]

1. no advice, but I want to know too!

I have a BA in French, and am considering getting certified to teach entry-level highschool classes in it. (I also am an editor and writer by trade, with journalism experience, which might come in handy, and a science background, though no official stuff.)

So, obviously, in my uninformed way, I'm all for it, Stella :)

[BlueJac]

2. It is a thankless job.....

but a job of great importance to this nation. I respect all people that dedicate themselves to helping others. Good Luck!

[shaniqua6392]

3. Teaching job opportunities are limited right now.

With so many cutbacks everywhere, there have been many teaching jobs eliminated. My daughter just finished college in December. She is a certified teacher in Michigan. And she can not find a job anywhere. There are teachers here who have been substituting for 2-3 years with no hope of permanent employment. No one from her graduating class has found a job. The college did not even offer job placement seminar for graduates as they usually do because they said that they just do not have anything to offer right now. A few have gone out of state for a job, but one of them was pink slipped 60 days after moving, etc. and is now back in Michigan. So, the bottom line is that I guess it depends on where you live. But, I hear it is bad all over the country. I do not know if the economy will be improving until we get rid of Bush either. Hope this helps. Good luck to you!!

[StellaBlue]

6. in Texas

I get the impression from the educators that I have spoken to, including my local elementary principal, that there is a great need, ever greater now with the Katrina survivors flooding into our already-overcrowded system.

And, like I said, I want ultimately to be able to do bilingual. But I think I can find a job in Texas. Definitely something I will look into further (real statistics, etc.) - THANKS!

[Yupster]

25. I taught secondary in Texas for ten years

but I quit 15 years ago.

Here's what I can tell you.

The advantages...

The benefits are wonderful. You will never find as good a retirement plan outside of government than the Teacher retirement System.

Also health insurance is okay while so many jobs don't have any at all.

Vacation and other days off is incredible. We got the months of Hume, July and half of August, plus generous holidays and ten sick days a year. You'll never find another job like that.

The pay is not bad. Starts here at $ 32 k a year. Never get rich but okay pay.

The work can be very rewarding as you have a direct ability to make a difference in people's lives.

The disadvantages

Dealing with administration and paperwork can be maddening.

Your first few years you will be exhausted between teaching, grading papers and preparing lessons. This gets better over time though.

Discipline is almost the whole fight. Just the difference between when I started and ended teaching there was a huge difference in the way the kids bahaved, and the difference wasn't because they got so much better over time. From what I've heard talking to teachers, it's only gotten worse since I've left.

New things teachers report to me is having to chase 13 year old girls out of the boys bathrooms where they're available for blow jobs. Also, it seems the buses have become battle and free sex zones.

I once had a ninth grade class with three girls pregnant at one time, so it's not like this is a new problem, but teachers are telling me it's gotten much worse.

Hope that little bit helps. Best of wishes.

[T Wolf]

4. I would encourage you to do this.

Just yesterday, I had a conversation with neighbors on the "state of the country" and specifically about how young people today do not seem to have the orientation that older generation had - that is, taking care of others is a higher priority than one's own welfare. It was the observation that we have indeed raised a selfish generation. Thus, more are entering profit-making fields (especially finance areas that contribute nothing to the benefit of society) at the expense of more caring endeavors. (A sidebar to this is the comparative lack of concern among the young about social welfare and political issues because they seem to believe that it is their "right" to be rich and unbothered, no matter how they get there.)

You can make a decent living being a teacher. You just won't get rich.

You do have those long vacations. Believe me, they are necessary. IF we ever go to a year-round school year, teachers will burn out even faster and at a much higher rate.

Sure, there are problems, as there are with every occupation or profession. But the rewards, especially for someone who really cares about doing good, more than make up for it.

And an added bonus is the opportunity to continue the brainwashing of America's youth.

So, I say. Go for it. If you are meant to be there, there is no better way to help this country get out of the mess it is in.

Good luck.

[lutefisk]

5. Take a look at Rethinking Schools- great resource

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/

Plenty of good materials and ideas. Good people.

[StellaBlue]

8. Thanks for the link!

Looks interesting - will have a look!

[StellaBlue]

7. by the way

I am 26 and also have about three years' work experience in the 'real world', plus part-time work since age 15.

My last job was as a departmental administrator - planning, organizing, dealing with government requirements, writing various documents, etc.

[HereSince1628]

9. Those long vacations result from long work weeks during session

Teaching isn't a job where the work begins at 8 and ends at 4:30.
You typically don't get to do much "prep" on company time, and like the theater, regardless of how the actors feel, tomorrow comes and the show must go on.

Anyone who wants to do a good job is compelled to spend a lot of time outside the normal workday and work week. It's common, well known and ithe basic reason teachers are exempted from overtime pay.

Consequently most teachers put in much more than a 40 hour week, and typically exceed in 9 months the 2000 hours per year most people experience.

[StellaBlue]

15. This is what I have been trying to get across to my relatives

Who are all trying to push me into the profession! haha

One in particular... has a friend that teaches middle school 'keyboarding', does no extracurriculars except the mandatory one-dance-chaperoning-per-year, leaves at 3:30 each day, has two 'conference periods', and is set to retire in a few years at age 55 with about $2500/month retirement income. Relative, who has NO RETIREMENT or savings is very jealous and it always going on about how teachers 'complain too much', make great money, get tons of time off, and ought to be satified. I point out that her friend is not typical, and if one wants to be a GOOD teacher, many, many hours of unpaid overtime are required, as well as tons of other out-of-hours work (grading papers, meeting with parents, inservice days, etc.).

She just shakes her head like I don't know what I am talking about.

Also a freeper, though, so...

Anyway, I honestly wouldn't mind working long hours if I was doing something worthwhile, that I loved, and that I felt was making a positive contribution to the world. I have NEVER understood the people described above, those who want to work in the nonfield of 'finance'. They are just leeches. Can't believe I dated one for several years.

StellaBlue takes a bath... scrub, scrub... ewwww

[wtbymark]

10. Well, my g/f is an 8th grade English teacher in Vermont

I can tell you that she enjoys her job, she loves teaching, she truly enjoys all aspects of planning, implementing and inventing new methods of teaching. She won't be there for too long though, none of them will. The fact is that NCLB requires a school to improve on it's scores by 3% a year and maintain an attendance record of 97%. To get the attendance issue out of the way, FYI, average school attendance across the country on any given day is 85%. So back to the scores. In this formula, NOT ONE public school will be able to pass the requirements by 2012. Therefor losing there funding and closure of the school.

On edit: Oh yea, and special education students are to be included in the general class score. Good Luck!

It's PNAC's plan to privatize all education.
NCLB is the death of the public school system.
This must be repealed as soon as the AssChimp is OUT!

[StellaBlue]

11. What are teachers doing?

I mean, they are typically pretty organized. At least in Texas. We know all about *co's plans down here.

:puke:

[AzDar]

12. Isn't it referred to as "the noblest profession"?...I have been

fortunate enough to have teachers whose voices and lessons still
reverberate with me on a daily basis. I have considered teaching, myself, but suffer from a terminal lack of patience (according to my two boys).
I know they are underpaid,and mostly under-appreciated, but to have the opportunity to impact a child's life....

[newportdadde]

13. The 'free' summers off are a joke.

I use to think teachers had it made with the summers off. Then my wife finished school and started teaching at the Elementary level. She was usually in much earlier then required to get a start on the day and was often home well after the day ended. Heh often this came home with her and I got drafted to help.

In the two years she did it before quiting to stay at home with our son and now TWINS in a few months she easily did more overtime then me during the school session and I'm in programming, not exactly a career which is low on overtime. Suffice it to say I was pretty shocked, she would often go in on Sundays etc to plan.

As far as the summers themselves, she usually had 3 weeks or so the rest of the time she was planning, getting the room ready etc or teaching summer school because regular year income is so low. As an example my wife brought home around 1800 a month after everything was taken out. Our childcare alone for a 2 year old and two newborns would be 2300, so I'm glad she is a stay at home mom.

On the plus side it is an easier career to stop and start again if you do want to stay home with children.

[StellaBlue]

17. I was thinking about children, too...

Meaning my own, in the future.

Unlike most other real careers, you are not heavily penalized for taking time out. Big point scorer for women who want both a career and children. Which is most of us. Just like men. :/

[DanCa]

14. I just got to hug ya

The Military - including first responders, and teachers, are our true heros. Especially now Liberalism battle ground is in the class room regardless of the subject. *Salutes.*

[longship]

16. I tried this--a little about my experiences.

I was teaching high school mathematics here in CA for three years. It ended up being a nightmare for two reasons.

1. NCLB, or as educators call it, "nickle-bee". It has all the administrators and school boards scared to death. Naturally, in response to NCLB, that means that they will further destroy the public school system. Testing has become *everything*. Education and teaching has become secondary. It is now all about getting the students through the horrible litany of tests that the state and local boards inflict on the poor students.

NCLB also has the boards and administrators trying to achieve a faculty of "only the highest qualified teachers". This means that new teachers do not receive the kind of support they need. They are in dreamland on this issue. That's why NCLB is called by many faculty members as, "blame the teachers first".

2. The certification process is horrible, a nightmare, hopeless to the task. Getting credentialled is such a bunch of bullshit that there's no way an educated person is going to want to go through it to become qualified. To their credit, the educational institutions have their heart in the right place, but in the new NCLB environment, any good they do is being swept aside. The "structure" of the requirements and such is preserved, but nothing of the substance.

A person leaving the traditional work force to pursue a new career in education must effectively enroll in an undergraduate education program (no matter what the school calls it), take two years off from work to complete the requirements (including a year of teaching without pay), and then, and only then, do they find out that the whole system is corrupt and totally ignores every single primary tenet of education.

Is this an indictment of our educational system? You bet it is.

An example from experience:

At my high school, mainstream algebra is taught to every single incoming freshman regardless of their academic abilities. For the three years I was teaching at this school the freshman algebra failure rate (F or D) was at about 75%. The year after I left the school (and teaching) forever, the failure rate was 92%. The reason? Simple.

The state of California requires both algebra and geometry on the State required high school exit exams. In order to give the students the required coursework to take that exam in the sophomore year the school district required academic algebra of all incoming freshmen, whether or not they were qualified to take the course.

Furthermore, in a policy of monumental stupidity, when a student fails the first semester of the course he or she must take the second semester anyway, regardless of the fact that a snowball has a better chance in Hell than that student passing the second semester. The failure rate of students repeating the algebra class is even higher than that of the first year. When I was teaching it was over 80%. Many, many students never got through the first year of algebra in spite of the state, district, and school's attempts to force the issue.

The result of this whole idiotic fixation on freshman algebra was that students are totally without any motivation. They act up in class. They know they have little hope of passing and they deliberately disrupt the whole process. Teaching mathematics in a California high school (other than the upper class schools) is a total nightmare. Mathematics education in California is a meatgrinder.

I am back at my old career. Needless to say, I am much happier since I left education.

[StellaBlue]

18. This is what is turning me off

Especially since I am such an outspoken critic of the System, in general. Like, I cannot imagine what trouble I might get into over the pledge issue.

God, I hate PNAC.

[longship]

21. The pledge is no issue.

I said it, without "under god". Students never said a word about it and the administration certainly never said anything about it.

Many, many students do not participate.

[Skarbrowe]

22. It's the same in Florida. My housemate has been teaching for 29 years.

Most of that time has been in South Florida. She's a math and computer science teacher and has a master's degree and all kinds of extra certification. You know what's she is teaching now? She is "Math Head" which is nothing but more headaches and is teaching THREE classes of FCAT ( the teach to the test course for Florida). I've graded hundreds of her tests in the past few years and the failure rate is about 95 percent. Most of her students barely speak English. One year she had five or six different language speaking students in her class.

She is now and for most years that I have lived here, been working from 7AM until 8 to 9 PM Monday through Friday and does some work on weekends. Her pay would be considered very good if she lived somewhere other than South Florida. But,that took 29 YEARS. She also works another job during the summer.

Fortunately for her, she lives and breaths being at that high school. She has a type of Asperger's Sydrome and, bless her heart, all the really bad stuff seems to just go right over her head. In the past few years, all the people she worked with in her department have left. Most of them burned out, retired, a few died, but most left because the principals and FCAT crap were just too much to take.

I have to admit that this past year was the first year that they didn't have to hire a couple new math teachers at the last minute. It made me realize that something is going on out there and that there might not be all the openings for even math teachers that there has been in the last decade or so.

Math teachers get recruited from the northern part of the country to come down here to Florida with all this "Oh, it's FLORIDA, you'll love it!" Not counting hurricanes, it doesn't take them long to see how awful the school systems are here in South Florida and that starting pay won't even cover a cheap apartment.

Sad. Very sad.

[brystheguy]

19. How can teachers respond? They're all working!!

Seriously, there are very few jobs I would rather do than teach middle school science. I am currently a stay-at-home dad, but when the kids start school, I plan on going right back in to teaching. Was I tired, underpaid, disrespected, and overworked? Yes. Did working with kids make up for all of that? Yes. Sure, it can really stink having to plan your bathroom breaks and having a parent yell at you, but teaching has it's own rewards. I remember a few years after my first year of teaching, a student contacted me because she had really looked up to me as an influential person in her life. Wow, talk about making a difference. How many desk jockeys can say that?

Good book to read before you jump in with both feet:

Teachers Have it Easy - the big sacrifices and small salaries of America's teachers by Daniel Moulthrop

One chapter is entitled, "Look dad, my biology teacher is selling stereos at Circuit City!" Too true!

[StellaBlue]

20. So, in the experience of people here who are 'in the know'

What percentage of teachers are 'liberal'?

What percentage are pissed about the stupid standardized testing requirements?

What percentage are aware of the national, neocon-driven attempt to totally close down the public schools?

My guess, from the teachers and ex-teachers I know, would be 60%, 100%, 15%.

haha

[Midlodemocrat]

23. I taught high school for ten years in a public school.

I left for an opportunity to make more money and there is no way I would go back to teaching. It has become way too regimented because of all the testing requirements.

I have to say, when I was teaching, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved the kids, the material, even some of the parents. I hated the administration. I have yet to run into a competent administrator, either as a parent or a teacher. Most of the ones I have had interaction with are control freaks who have their career advancement on their minds 24/7 as opposed to the welfare of the children.

JMHO.

[StellaBlue]

24. Thanks

For all the honest input.

I am really torn; I feel like, at 26 and with no debt other than massive student loans, I have a window of opportunity here. I got out of a bad relationship, left a career-track job in the private sector, and am now trying to determine what to do.

I feel like this may be my one and only chance to escape the rat race (insofar as that is possible) and turn my back on mainstream, profit-driven, consumeristic lifestyle goals. All I really want is a decent, non-roach-infested apartment or small house, cool and interesting people to talk to, and the ability to go protest when I feel like it without being in fear of losing my job. Beyond that, what scares me is the thought (and coming from having worked my entire early career in Europe, this is a Big One) of working maybe 45 years until I can retire, then having no retirement to speak of, no healthcare, etc. 8-5 every day, all year long, with only two measly weeks off. I just want to kill myself now, seriously. What's the point?

How can we avoid being a slave to The Man? It's impossible, isn't it?