If god is omnipotent... And responsible for all the good that happens..

[WCGreen]

Doesn't it stand to reason that this god is also responsible for all that is bad and evil as well....

If we live in a world that is micromanaged by the diety...

Why would there be free will....

Did God Fuck Up that day??????

[Shell Beau]

1. Why, oh why, do we have to have these kind of threads?

Just sayin'! Some things cannot be explained. And for me, as a Christian, stuff like this just ends up going nowhere! I know you mean no harm though!


:)

[WCGreen]

2. Someone posted the AA prayer the other day...

And I am an AA vetern....

I felt that the logic behind the AA experience, good = higher power, bad = humanity, was a recipe for dysfunction....

It didn;t work for me....

But obviously worked for a lot of others....

[Shell Beau]

7. Well what works for some certainly does not work for all!

[AllegroRondo]

13. Similar to early Protestants

anything bad = God is testing us
anything good = God is rewarding us

[Arugula Latte]

40. Right. That plus "ours is not to question God's ways..."

Yeah, okay. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[JVS]

3. This kind of discussion: theology--- as--- intelligent design: science

[KittyWampus]

28. ? I've Studied Qabalism F/10+ Years. "God" Is Certainly Responsible For

"bad" as well as "good".

However:

#1. God isn't actually a seperate personality or Being as you consider yourself a personality or Being.

#2. Good and Bad are subjective judgements subject to change.

Example, winning a car is "good" until the car explodes due to malfunction, then it's "bad".

Evil and hardship is just the Universe acting in such a manner as to WAKE US THE HECK UP. And that is to be desired, no? :)

[nickgutierrez]

4. The Devil.

What's the point of having an omnipotent deity on the side of good if there isn't some equally powerful being on the side of evil? The conflict is what keeps fervor intact, after all.

As for free will... *digs for copy of Slaughterhouse-five*

[WCGreen]

5. Loved that book...

Everything is predestined......

[nickgutierrez]

10. Found it!

"'If I hadn't spent so much time studying Earthlings,' said the Tralfamadorian, 'I wouldn't have any idea what was meant by 'free will.' I've visited thirty-one inhabited planets in the universe, and I have studied reports on one hundred more. Only on Earth is there any talk of free will.'"

[Shine]

6. We must live in the Mystery of it All...

and sometimes that SUCKS! :)

But when we remember: that's Grace.

My two cents,
~Shine

[Meatwad]

8. I have a question about God...

If he's all-loving, all-forgiving, and blah blah blah, then how come he damns people to hell? Since "the wicked" do go to hell, then God is not all-loving, all-forgiving like everyone says he is, right?

I'm jus' sayin'.

[KittyWampus]

29. "He" doesn't damn anyone to hell. We do that to ourselves. Or rather,

our adherence to dogma does.

I think to exit hell we really just have to break the habits that we've allowed ourselves to get caught in.

[Az]

33. Ponder this

Could god have made a universe in which freewill was intact but at the same time no one would wind up finding themself in hell? For that matter why make a universe with hell in it? From the perspective of those of us damned it almost seems as if he made existance just to put us into eternal damnation. It seems a god as omnipotent as the claims made for the Abrahamic one is should have been able to make a universe that didn't have such problems.

[WCGreen]

35. Now that, was well put......

[KittyWampus]

37. suppose we make ourselves? ever second of our lives, we continually

create our bodies, psyches, emotions and also our outside environment.

Suppose we woke from our trance and took charge of what we're constantly creating rather than allowing cultural habits dictate things?

:)

[soleft]

9. Maybe it's like me and the spider

The other day I was waiting for the bus to go to work, and I saw a little spider in the street running around right where the bus was due to pull up.

At first I thought I should be like National Geographic and not intervene, but the longer it took the bus to arrive the more time I had to think, finally I picked up a piece of trash from the street and used it to steer the spider toward the curb.

I thought it I could get the spider to latch onto the trash I could carry him over to the sidewalk.

But instead I accidently knocked him into a puddle and he quickly curled up into a little ball.

I finally was able to scoop him onto the piece of trash and carried him over to the sidewalk, but he didn't move.

he still wasn't moving when the bus showed up.

Now - to the spider, I probably seem omnipotent, but in the end I ended up killing him while trying to help him.

So if there is a god who intervenes, maybe he just isn't very good at it.

[WCGreen]

12. good point.....

[KittyWampus]

32. can I copy this? it's kind of funny while being very insightful!

:)

[jane_pippin]

11. eh, I figure there's a little bit of god in everything and free will is

there to keep things interesting.

[Taverner]

14. Well I will throw my 2 cents in

Personally, I don't think God gives a rats ass what goes on down here on Earth. He has an infinite number of planets to manage, supernovas to watch, the whole space-time continuum to keep in line - even being omnipotent, he can't keep his eye on whether Auburn or Georgia Tech win the game that week.

So he sends proxies around. On Earth, that was Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna and possibly Tony LaRussa. Sometimes we get the message, sometimes we just get the ritual, and sometimes we nail the guy to a pair of sticks, and then say we had their real meaning - and it was go to go around nailing people to sticks who think different than we do.

The universe is not about good and evil - that's our subjective interpretation. If a man is eaten by a Lion, this is seen as an act of evil, but actually quite nice for the Lion. Especially if the recently devoured had some meat on his bones.

Our job on this planet, while we are here, is to create the infratstructure that:

- benefits the most people collectively
- causes the least amount of suffering
- impedes with liberties in the least intrusive way

Other than that, it's also about throwing the right curve ball that makes a perfect no-hitter game.

[KittyWampus]

30. that's a very nice concise statement!

[gratuitous]

15. So . . . what's good and what's bad?

Is there nothing so bad that some good isn't realized from it? Is there nothing so good that there are no negative derivative consequences whatsoever (posts by your friendly neighborhood gratuitous notwithstanding).

[Taverner]

16. Good and Bad are subjective definitions

There is nothing inhereintly good or bad about any action - good or bad is merely in the eye of the affected.

[WCGreen]

17. Indeedie do.......

[Az]

18. Its the standard way of reinforcing reliance

God is repsonsible for all the good things and you or satan are responsible for everything that goes wrong. If you want a belief system to stick this is a pretty good way to reinforce it.

[Deja Q]

19. Nobody's perfect?

:shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. If god can do anything can he make a stone so heavy even he can't

pick it up?

[WCGreen]

21. By Jove, I think he can......

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. how?

[Az]

23. More importantly, when can he do it

I wanna see.

[WCGreen]

26. by calling up Thor and Hercules.....

[CaliforniaPeggy]

24. I have never really believed in God per se...I do believe that there is a

force that began the universe, that set into motion the natural world. And of course, that natural world includes us....

I've always felt that whatever spiritual force you believe in is contained in all of our souls being joined together into a cohesive mass...Free will is part of how we operate; there is (for me) no outside god to dictate to us. We decide for ourselves.

So I cannot agree that God is responsible for all the good and evil that occurs...We are, IMHO...

Of course, I could be VERY wrong......

[WCGreen]

36. The life force, energy if you will, is borrowed

And then returned.....

[CaliforniaPeggy]

44. Exactly...

Our life force, or our souls, come from this central place, and then return there when our bodies die......

Although I personally feel that we retain our soul's individuality even when we return to this central place, whatever you want to call it...heaven.....

[In_The_Wind]

25. We are responsible for our own actions...

I do not believe there is an omnipotent deity.

[WCGreen]

27. But there is Joani....

I met her last tuesday....

[In_The_Wind]

31. You met the RGCJ ...

I'm very happy to say that you and Mrs. Green will be seeing more of me.

[bridgit]

34. well, if god is RE-sponsible for all the good; isn't he...

IR-responsible for all the bad :shrug: http://www.philosophyquotes.net/cgi-bin/god_game1.cgi

[WCGreen]

38. That was my main problem with this dysfuntional

approach to spiruality.....

I think, as many have said already, that good and evil is subjective, that circumstance often does dictate actions.....

That there are no universal thruths but an eveolution, if you will, of how we as humans can better get along with each other and our home....

[bridgit]

39. that seems about right, oh sure, i'm 'baptized' catholic...

but a trend deist as a more or less, 'well there it is' 'founding fathers' separation of church & state premise; please do discount radicalized denominalization (new word) of spirituality approach but that's just me :thumbsup:

[Arugula Latte]

41. self-delete

[Arugula Latte]

42. You have described the basic problem at the heart of monotheism

I don't believe in dieties, but the pan-theistic cultures have an easier time: e.g.: This bountiful harvest was courtesy of this benevolent god X; that plague of locusts was because of that nasty god Y.

[WCGreen]

43. I think it is all about good and bad Karma....

I think Earl has it right.....