Kurt & Courtney

[Sugar Smack]

I love the film and I have it on tape, but I don't buy the "murder" allegations for a second. Nick Broomfield travels around Seattle and does interviews with "witnesses", only 2 of them in the least bit credible. He asks if they think Courtney hired someone to kill Kurt.

Kurt's ex-girlfriend Tracey, his grade-school teacher and Aunt Mary were the only three people worth believing. Everyone else offered up paranoid testimonials as to whether or not they were "safe" even TALKING about it.

The cast of characters includes a coked-up lawyer who runs an anti-Courtney website; "El Duce", the defunct and dispatched singer of a metal band; and Courtney's father, Hank Harrison, who once traveled with the Grateful Dead. The latter loudly supposes his daughter had a hand in Kurt's death, and when he's not loudly supposing, he's trying out a dig here, a dig there, at Courtney.

Nick Broomfield begins to sound impotent after a time: they're running out of money for the film. A witness to Courtney's behavior *oops* can't get hold of some pics of Courtney. And so Nick is forced to go embarrass Courtney at an ACLU dinner after her speech.

I love the movie simply for the characters. Courtney Love may be an asshole, but she's not a murderer. And neither is Yoko Ono. In case you were wondering.

[JimmyJazz]

1. I still have not read the book! I am lame. It's been on my list for

months and months. I keep getting distracted. :(

[Sugar Smack]

3. Sweetie, our tastes line up so completely,

that I am somewhat worried we will never run out of things to talk about when we meet, and say "goodbye" too soon.

:hug: :hug:

PS- I've wanted to read "Please Kill Me" for YEARS! :D It's the punk answer to Edie Sedgwick's biography.

[JimmyJazz]

18. I'm afraid you'll find me to be somewhat parochial in person.

:( I have so much to learn.

[asthmaticeog]

2. Oy, El Duce...

I saw his band once. Less than worthless. You know he died from passing out drunk on some train tracks and the train came? Whatta winner. :eyes:

Yoko Ono RULES.

[Sugar Smack]

6. YES-

I dearly LOVE Yoko Ono, and I've done some paintings and drawings of her face. My favorite view of her is when she's standing on a ladder at one of her exhibitions and looking down at the camera. You were supposed to climb up the ladder and look through a lens. There, you'd see the word "YES".

El Duce was lodged in the insanest vegetable torpor in "Kurt & Courtney" I'd ever seen. Do you know what he did in that film? He came out of his place and talked, gesticulating with a fly swatter! The NEXT thing he did, I believe, was to go try to shake hands with that train. What a nut.

[asthmaticeog]

7. Cool, another Yoko fan!

I have a Weatherhill folio of her instruction paintings - it's one of my favorite posessions ever.

[Sugar Smack]

14. I've got "Yoko Ono; Arias and Objects"

in it, it explains about how smiling in Japan is considered "weak", and there was always a major culture clash in the 60's, especially about people smiling. It turned some people off and some people on that Yoko never played the sycophant.

I really like her instruction paintings.

[Magrittes Pipe]

20. Yoko is a personal hero of mine.

I adore her in every way.

[Sugar Smack]

27. Oh, have you ever read "Loving John"?

Written by May Pang- I really got into that book. To me, it seemed like a book-length confession of one's own helplessness at the behest of Yoko Ono, and an unintentional tribute to Yoko's own power. Yoko effortlessly controlled every situation; May and John were her slaves, and it seems that's just the way they liked it.

[HuskerDU]

31. Yeah, I saw El's band too- The Mentors.

Those guys may have been the lowest lifeforms ever to form a band.

El Duce does have a legit place in punk rock history though. He was the first drummer for LA's legendary The Screamers.

[asthmaticeog]

33. Yeah, they were pretty foul guys.

I had to endure them opening for Revolting Cocks in I wanna say 1990. Their schtick got real old in about thirty seconds.

[jane_pippin]

4. I love that movie because of the filmmaker.

I only know him from this film and his other fine work, Biggie & Tu Pac, but he comes across as the world's most incompetent filmmaker ever. It's endearing. It's like, Alan Partridge makes a documentary!

But yeah, the movie's good for other reasons too. I love that Courtney's dad hates her and for a billion other reasons.

And apropos of nothing, Sugar Smack, have you read Clowes' Ice Haven yet? (I remember you mentioned him in the Gen X thread, so I thought I'd ask).

[bliss_eternal]

8. I'm very fond of the one he did on fetishes and pro dommes

which is primarily filmed in a professional Dungeon. It was fascinating and simultaneously the most hysterically funny thing I've ever seen.

Not sure what it says about me, that I found it funny, :eyes: but it's an interesting documentary!

[jane_pippin]

15. Oh dear lord, that sounds great!

I hope netflix has it. I can see how with that guy involved it could be hilarious and fascinating. Thanks for the tip.

[bliss_eternal]

21. I'm relieved and glad you think so...

LOL! I tend to get odd looks when I've told people about this film. If you want to read a bit more about it, here's a link to a synopsis and review...

http://www.nyrock.com/movies/1997/fetishes.asp

It's called Fetishes by Nick Broomfield. Netflix should have it. I wish I had taped it when it was on i-control on our cable. It cracked me up!

[jane_pippin]

30. Thanks for the link. I'm always happy to hear about weird movies

I've never seen before.

[Sugar Smack]

10. jane_pippin, I believe you are one

of my favorite posters EVER!!! I never saw his other films- just that one, and we agree on his impotence being almost endearing. He bumbles about, and when he tries to be forceful and have that "shoot-from-the-hip" journalistic killer instinct...the sound you hear is of a balloon deflating.

Daniel Clowes- I have read every "Ghost World", I think. I can't imagine being able to draw my dreams and nightmares, but Clowes has done it for me. My favorite was when two girls follow Anton LaVey around a supermarket, and find out what he consumes- "Lunchables". A whole shopping cart of Lunchables.

PS- Courtney's dad has issues, I think!

[jane_pippin]

13. Sugar Smack, you fuckin' rock.

There. I said it. :toast:

Evidence of your rockin': "that "shoot-from-the-hip" journalistic killer instinct...the sound you hear is of a balloon deflating."

Nicely said.

I'm late on the Clowes front, but I've seen Ghost World more than a few times and just picked up Ice Haven, which I think is fantastic--it seemed like a few distinct stories and then he pulls them together so seamlessly. The rest of his books are now on my "to buy" list.

[Sugar Smack]

17. LOL!

That was great to hear! And you know, I rarely buy new books, but I would DEFINITELY get smething of Clowes's if I ran across it. Damn, this is GREAT.

Thanks also for making me laugh in the Gen-X-er's thread. People like you are seldom dismissed or forgotten, and I shan't forget you.

:D

[jane_pippin]

19. .

Also, I forgot to thank you for saying that so, thank you.

[WCGreen]

32. I loved the movie Ghost World.....

It came out about the time of My First Mister....

Two wonderful movies........

BTW, I think KC offed himself cause he couldn't come up with any more music...

At least in his mind.....

Just a theory...

I am a little too old to have gotten why Nirvana was such a great band and all....

But, they seemed okay, good compared to all the crap that was passing for music by the end of the late 80's....

Kind of like the early Beatles compared to Frankie Avalon and Annette Funicello....

there was a lot of pent up rock n roll energy waiting to expode....

I think a lot of what they did was for attentions sake....

They got the attention all right....

[johnnie]

5. I haven't seen the movie yet and I haven't read the book.

I don't go for the "murder" theory either, I am more on the "depression and heroin mixed together can leave bad results" theory. It was a shame he didn't get the help he needed early on, but it is an old story.

[Sugar Smack]

34. The movie was so filled with extreme characters-

I don't like the premise of it, but it's very interesting to see who Kurt & Courtney came from and who they chose to associate with.

One of the most extreme characters is Courtney Love's father, Hank Harrison. God, he's a teriffic fuckup. You can see some of his utter craziness the more he talks. He starts out seemingly alright; but the more he says, the more he exposes himself as paranoid, vain, and completely eaten up with envy at his daughter's success.

He pretty much declares war on Courtney right in front of the camera. He keeps saying, "Don't cross me, I'll KICK YOUR ASS." He says "KICK YOUR ASS" about 10 times, and then he reads aloud poetry she'd written and thrown in the garbage, which he'd retrieved.

[CanuckAmok]

9. So there's no chance of her and Yoko killing each other?

Damn.

[Sugar Smack]

11. Oh, Canuck, don't be a brat.

;) :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[CanuckAmok]

12. Yeah, I shouldn't say that. I like Yoko.

But I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever ,ever, ever want to hear her sing. Or talk.

[Sugar Smack]

16. Like you, I don't have any truck with her singing-

but so many other things about her are GREAT! :-)

[bridgit]

22. make's ya'wonder...

yeah-yeah = chemical imbalance; blond hair, blue eyes, straight teeth, a million bucks in the fucking bank & 'you' blow your brains out :shrug: i've seen too much shit in the music business to wonder any longer NSMA (to coin a 'handle')

[radwriter0555]

24. Ever spent time with Courtney Love? No person in their right mind DOES. He

was attracted to her because he was unbalanced and fragile from the time he was born.

The only only only reason Courtney is still alive is because of Francis. Somehow that child keeps her alive somewhere... on the edge.

She is killing herself one day at a time. He just had to guts to check himself out.

[Sugar Smack]

25. Here's a note Courtney wrote Kurt about Francis

in 1993, when Nirvana toured Argentina:

"You've only been gone a day but today her turtle tooth came IN, I mean YOU CAN SEE IT, a little pearly girlrazor right where it's supposed to be, in the middle on the bottom, I was crying in the bath with her for nearly a half hour straight, and she kept looking up and grinning, looking up and rooting, and I'd sob and sob and feel so guilty to burden her, and she reached up and put her arms around me! TOOK TIME OUT OF HER BUSY TEAR AND ROOT SCHEDULE! Queen Narcissus herself!..."

That was from the book "Courtney Love- The Real Story" by Poppy Z. Brite. You can tell that Courtney Love is enchanted and bewildered by her daughter, and by her own motherhood. I think Francis helps keep her alive as well.

[radwriter0555]

35. CL is completely 'out there' speckled with moments of lucidity... she

truly is mentally ill, and it's heart breaking to see how she's driven everyone, and I do mean everyone away from her world. So many people want(ed) to help her with Francis, but she just won't let them. The only people around her anymore are her few enablers, but she drives even them away eventually.

The paid handlers for Frannie are nasty and vile and actually the only sort who can handle being around courtney for any length of time; but they're not people I would literally allow my child to be around or to be trusted with.

It's heart breaking. It took a while, but now I understand why no one wanted Frannie when CL lost custody; because it means being enmeshed with CL too, and that shit will apparently kill you.

[bridgit]

28. no, but i've known & spent time with people just them like...

within similar art, music, professional orbits and in too many cases you can just put a blue dot over their faces because the rest of their lives appear exactly the same = a jerky, sporadically brilliant, slow motion train wreck

it is ALL the 'the edge' and i do not care which end of it you're standing on it is still razor thin imo

[Sugar Smack]

26. Yeah- remember when Margeaux Hemingway killed herself?

Her sister was telling everyone that Margeaux had seemed really happy at the time. She was actually living in a one-room apartment with all her boxes packed, and right before ODing, had paged her best friend with a one word message: "HELP".

Kurt's aunt Mary said in the movie that she had no doubt of Courtney's innocence, because Kurt was perpetually on the edge of having a nervous breakdown.

[bridgit]

29. in a sense, courtney love doesn't matter...

living 'the life' is one thing. living 'the grunge life' another. living 'the grunge life in seattle' yet another. when you are strung out; you need the very most caring people very nearby, so that when you nod off, they will still pull the needle from your arm...call it co-dependency if it is easier to do so.

in such an environ, absent that caring...friend, anybody can & will take you down for little more than a bent needle.

poor courtney, so ambitious forever clawing her way to somewhere; but we all can't be kurt cobain...

Rome. The Excelsior Hotel. March 6, 1994. Cobain was found unconscious on his hotel-room floor, blood trickling from his nose. The offending drug was Rohypnol, a fifty-pill overdose that left the rocker comatose. When he awakened twenty hours later, he denied that he had attempted suicide and said he had no memory of what happened. His wife had a prescription for the drug. Cobain ingested them — to die or get high? Pundits would later interpret the Rome incident as a behavioral precursor to suicide. Fair enough. The possibility remains, however, that this was a dress rehearsal for homicide.

http://www.karisable.com/cobain.htm

[radwriter0555]

23. HIs own mother and sister don't believe the whole "she killed him" thing

and they're fairly reasonable and sane if not just more fragile perhaps. Kurt was fragile. He couldn't take the insanity of Courtney and she really is mentally ill in addition to the drug use.

[RetroLounge]

36. Is this the sequel to Sid and Nancy?

:shrug:

RL

[Sugar Smack]

37. It might as well be.

Kurt and Courtney lived as closely as possible to the memory of Sid and Nancy. They even checked into hotels in those names. Courtney Love was even IN "Sid & Nancy"!