What would YOU do?

[MissMillie]

OK, so my kid keeps seeing recruiters. He'll be 18 in exactly one week.

As much as I don't like the idea of him joining the military and supporting this war, I could swallow this bitter pill if he would go to college and get his degree first. I really believe that if he wants a military career in telecommunications he'll have a better shot at getting placed in that field if he has a degree. Anyway, lately he's been talking about joining up w/ his friend so that they can be in the "buddy system".


My son has a degenerative eye disease, keratoconus. 2 months ago, the Marines said they would only take him if he signed a waiver (meaning that the military would not pay for any medical treatment involving the disease).

Now, the Army is saying they'll take him. No strings.

I don't want him to go, and pretty soon, I'll have no recourse.

Here's what I think my options are:

1) Blackmail him. Tell him that unless he finishes a four-year degree first, I'm going to the press about how the military will put other enlisted soldiers in danger by allowing a kid who can't see in. Let's face it, if my kid ends up in battle, and his friend says to him, "I'm going in, cover me," the friend should be able to expect that my son can see well enough to do just that. The military would be endangering other enlisted if they were to take my kid. If he finishes the degree first, I clam up about his eyes when he signs up later on.

2) Just go public w/ the story. It will probably keep him out of the military for good. He may hate me for a while--maybe even forever, but at least I will have kept him out if Iraq.


So.... wanna weigh in?

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

1. do whatever it takes to keep him safe

blackmail, barter, go public, whatever--be hated by him.

[kick-ass-bob]

2. tell him they killed Pat Tillman.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4898667&mesg_id=4898667

[MissMillie]

4. You can't tell him anything

He's a teenager/young adult who is convinced that I don't know what I'm talking about.

[kick-ass-bob]

6. then let him read it himself.

[bertha katzenengel]

3. Miss Mill... if it were my child in question, I would swallow the bitter

pill. I'm not advising you to do so; this is what I would do. I would let the young man - at 18, like it or not, that "man" part is legal - make his own decision. However I would strongly advise him not ever to sign any waiver releasing the military from treating him for anything.

Best wishes for you both, bud. :pals:

[DS1]

5. I signed up. My parents tried somewhat to talk me out of it.

Or maybe they put their hearts and soul into talking me out of it, but I can't tell you because I wasn't really listening. Signing up is just some sort of 'bug' that gets in you, I can't really explain it. I've been there, and I've been on the other end trying to talk kids out of it and I've seen the glossed over eyes that aren't listening to anything I've said.

So now, I ask them a long battery of questions about what their goals are, where do they see themselves in the ranks, doing what job, why, what will they do when they get out, why aren't they thinking of taking the free college lessons offered to everyone but taken advantage of by the few, what about being stationed overseas, are they ready to be tossed into a new culture, or outright combat, how fast can they run, is it faster than the next guy, how comfortable are they with having no privacy throughout their entire enlistment. And so on and so on, and sometimes that plants the seed of "Wow, I really am signing my freedom and independence away".

[MissMillie]

8. Signing up today, as a grunt

is a ticket to Iraq. The kid doesn't believe me. He believes his recruiter, which is the biggest fucking joke there is.

But seriously, he presence may end up being the difference between another solder living or dying. It's just wrong for them to even consider taking him.

[Burma Jones]

7. Get him to join the Air Force

If they won't take him, try to get him in the Navy. Tell him that these are the two branches that give him the best opportunities for training and will keep him out of the shit......

[MissMillie]

10. I tried to talk him into Navy, and it's a no-go

which is really funny considering he's been in a Naval JROTC unit.

He won't even consider Air Force.

[Orsino]

9. He can pick his job in the Army...

...if he enlists as I once did. If he picks a telecommunications MOS, it's his. A degree won't affect his chances, unless he aims for the warrant officer or officer corps--in which case my advice would probably be worthless.

I don't know about this buddy system, as I think it opened for non-combat jobs since my day.

[DS1]

13. The buddy system was just going through bootcamp with another

kid from your town. I was signed up with a buddy to go to bootcamp, but some reason his paperwork got held up at MEPS, and I went without him. He showed up the next day and was put in a different platoon in the series. They realized the screwup about 2 months into it, asked us both if we wanted to switch into the other platoons and neither of us were even remotely interested in getting used to living with 60 other guys.

[Orsino]

19. IIRC, it was more than that...?

Didn't the buddy system also guarantee you and your buddy assignment to the same AIT training unit, and to the same first duty station?

obviously, it's possible to wash out or to cycle back and get out of synch with your buddy, but I could have sworn that the program generally tended to get you serving with your friend with whom you went through training.

I may be confusing this with combat arms OSUT, which was mainly for infantry.

[DS1]

25. Different service, it ended at bootcamp

USMC

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. When did I become Jesus?

Someone really should've told me sooner. I could've used some wine last night... :shrug:

[tjwmason]

12. I'm sorry to say it - but there's nothing that you can do.

Once he's 18 he can sign up and that's that.

Your only real choice is between being with him or not.

I'm sure that by now he knows that you don't want him to do this, and yet he is clearly still set on his chosen course.

[progmom]

14. Miss Millie

I have Keratoconus. I know how inaccurate my eyesight is...I'd be really worried about being put in a combat situation.

You're right to not trust the recruiter. My friend's son was promised that he wouldn't be sent to Iraq - the recruiter swore up and down...then his group was called up to go there before they even completed basic training. (He got lucky though...a very kind doctor had him discharged for sleep walking)


Good luck with this. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. :pals:

[MissMillie]

15. I think I've decided

to blackmail him. I know that sounds horrible, but dammit, this is WAR (me vs. the recruiter) and I plan on winning!

Anyone else want to weigh in before this thread sinks for good?

[WCGreen]

16. Try the blackmail.......

I agree...

It is war....

War for his mind and his soul.....

And for your piece of mind....

Just steer him toward the Army and away from the marines.....

[seemunkee]

26. Do EEET!

I would do what ever was necessary to keep him out of the military. I know that isn't going to happen thank goddess.

[northzax]

30. one potential route

instead of directly blackmailing him, try the recruiter. Tell him you know he is planning to sign up a soldier with a degenerative eye disease and that you want to see the Army regulations concerning such a recruit. Get him to put, in writing, that the Army knows that such a disease is present and that it will in no way impede his ability to pass Basic Training or affect his career in any way. That in the Army's opinion, impaired vision is not a disqualification for any service.

$20 says he won't sign such a document.

[MissMillie]

33. Actually, it's my understanding

once you're "in" you have no recourse regarding anything that the recruiter may or may not have promised you.

I'd be happy to be wrong about this.

[northzax]

35. that's why you get it, in writing

from the Army, not the recruiter. hell, even getting it in writing from the recruiter will make him squirm. he won't put anything down, for just that reason.

[skygazer]

17. You're in a tough position

I feel for you - I have a 17 year old son and I have nightmares about this very scenario.

I'm not sure what I'd do. Perhaps talk to him about this eye disease he has - try to get it through his thick teenage skull that he would be endangering his fellow soldiers were he to be sent to combat - and the chances are very good he would. If they are taking 47 year olds for the third or fourth tour, they're definitely going to want 18 year olds.

I would certainly tell him he'd be nuts to sign any kind of waiver in regards to medical treatment.

But in the end, I think I'd have to accept that it's his decision. Our goal as parents is to raise a child with enough information and instill enough of our values to have them able to make a decision. You may not agree with it, but he's a big boy now. I think it would be a mistake to blackmail him - you'd be telling him you don't trust him to make those decisions.

I'm not saying give up - ultimately what you do is YOUR decision. I wish you the best in it. :hug:

[miss_kitty]

18. I would find someone who has been there to have a heart to heart

with him. Someone that is, that'll ask him the questions and tell him the truth. Once the military gets him to sign on the dotted line, a lot they promised him will go away.

THEN if that doesn't change his mind, blackmail.

If you can't dissuade him, at least take a lawyer to the signing with you and have him explain EVERYTHING he's not gonna get, even though he thinks he is. Because recruiters have to lie to get kids to sign. Every kid they sign gets them a brownie point. truly. So if he's being recruited by a hotshot who looks at recruiting as a career, or a guy who is desperate for bods-they'll lie and swear to it.

[Shell Beau]

20. I totally understand you not wanting him to do this, but

in reality it is his decision. I would be sick over this just like you are. But part of letting go means letting them make their own decisions even if they make no sense to us and seem like the most stupid thing to do. This is just my opinion though. I hope whatever happens, he's safe. :hug:

[MissMillie]

21. But it's not just him

his disease makes him a danger for any unit.

So if this is really my concern, I should forget about the blackmail and just go public w/ this story....

[Shell Beau]

22. I understand.

Do whatever you feel is necessary to do. Whatever is right in your heart is what you should do! Good luck! :hug:

[rbnyc]

23. Do whatever it takes.

Were it my son, I would threaten him in every way possible. I don't care if it's good parenting or not. I don't care how long he would hate me. I would exploit every vulnerability to keep him out of the military, especially at this time.

So sorry you're going through this. I'd be beside myself.

[caty]

24. Is it the military in general

that you are unsure about? My son joined the U.S. Coast Guard and loved it. I was o.k. with it because I felt it was safer. There was an element of danger because of rescues and drug runners. But, he didn't have to go to Iraq. He is out now and getting his bachelors degree in December and then going on to get his masters degree.

Just something to consider.

http://www.gocoastguard.com/

[MissMillie]

27. It's not the military -- it's the war.

My sister did 20 years in the Coast Guard. She even made chief.

My son thinks it's less than other branches, which of course is ridiculous.

[youthere]

28. MissMillie I have no advice...

just a couple of these: :hug: :hug:

My son is only eight, so I'm not in your place, and I know you've got to let them grow up, but all I can say from where I stand is that I would rather my son be alive to hate me than...well you know. Wish you the best.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

29. He is a man

and you as his mother really just have to go with it. Give him your best advice and then let go. Because a man who is controlled by his mother is not a good thing.

Hard? Sure is. I have a son who is in a very high mortality line of work. I was not happy about it. But when I think about it, would I really want him to say "I wanted to do this but my mom didn't want me to so I didn't?"

He has to make up his own mind about life, what is good and not. He has to live his own experiences. Your job will shortly be over. Hardest thing about having boy children. They become men.

[MissMillie]

32. But it's not just about him

His vision problems could put anyone who serves w/ him in danger.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

34. Okay, now that is a different problem

That is a real dilemma. I still say that there are some things a man is responsible for and his mother is not.

On the other hand, I hide my drunk sister's car keys all the time so she doesn't kill somebody on the road.

Maybe your best bet is to talk him into the fact that this is his responsibility and he needs to understand the risk he is putting his buddies in.

That whole buddy thing is a powerful male motivator.

[China_cat]

31. Do whatever you have to.

Having him be alive to hate you is way better than remembering that his last words were 'I love you'.

[bearfan454]

36. Tell him Navy or Coast Guard.

Less chance of getting killed.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

37. Why not

call your Senators and Congressmen, and tell them about his medical condition, that the Army is willing to take a kid with that sort of medical history.

Wanna play really dirty - and maybe save his life?

Get a friend to contact the media about this, because it's really a filthy scam, what recruiters are doing.

I know, because my friend's 19-year-old son is in Iraq now, having been promised by the recruiters, during his senior year in high school, that, "Sure, you can finish college, and then come with us."

He signed up, got in one semester of college, and they called him up to active duty. He'll spend at least 2 years in Iraq, and he hates every minute of it. He'll be the first to tell you son to do anything except enlist.

[NuttyFluffers]

43. wow, much better idea than i had. i thought ballpoint hammer to kneecaps.

granted i'm not a parent so it's pretty easy for me to say something like that. i wouldn't mind acting out a little selfishness for saving my child from walking through the valley of death -- for no good reason! but, i'm not in that situation so i wouldn't know if i'd follow through. pretty sure i have enough cruelty and selfishness within me to do so; no child of mine is going to be someone's meat puppet for a meat grinder for profit. no one enslaves and kills me and mine to steal even more from me without a fight. and i'll back that up with violence if necessary.

but... this is a much better idea. listen to old leftie lawyer. ramp this up. take it to the media (read: AAR), take it to your representatives, take it to LTTE, local news, etc. probably far more effective, and far less violent.

[Nikia]

38. As I understand it

If he has good scores on his ASVAB, he will likely be able to get into the field that he wants, telecommunications.
He will be less likely, if not downright forbidden, to serve in combat becaus of his disability. This doesn't mean that he might not be assigned to Iraq doing some other primary task, which might put him in a combat situation. They don't give combat jobs to people who have physical disabilities that might impair their ability to fight. I know people who have been not been able to serve in combat for other minor disabilites but were still able to hold other jobs in the service.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. do whatever it takes to keep him away from military

better a son that hates you than an injured son

[Left_Winger]

40. I'm a teacher and a vet

The local National Guard recruiters were in our school last Friday. Since I was on lunch duty, I thought about how I could help the anti-war cause. So, I introduced myself to the recruiters and told them about how much military experience I had (13 years, 8 months and 24 days) of active duty and National Guard time; and that I was both enlisted and commissioned, making Captain before I left. They really became interested when I informed them that of this time I spent three years in the infantry and the remainder in armor. I also told them that I had been a civilian for the last fifteen years and the transition back might be rather difficult for me. Needless to say, they became very interested in me (and I'm in my late 40s! - is that a sign of desperation or what?!?). They began to offer me loads of incentives: a $15,000 enlistment bonus, an automatic appointment as a Staff Sgt. (E-6), etc. I kept them talking to me as much as possible to keep them away from the students. I did everything I could think of and I was quite successful keeping them busy with me instead of approaching the students. Both of the recruiters spent almost the entire time trying to talk me into returning. When the bell rang ending the lunch period, I told them I had to go but they wanted my "contact information". I told them I would think about it some more and if I were interested I would contact them as I knew where they were (their armory is right across the street).

This may only be a fraction of a drop in the bucket, but every bit counts.

The senior recruiter actually admitted to me that this war was about oil! His honesty with me almost knocked me over (metaphorically, that is).

[NMMNG]

41. I was in the protest march on Saturday

One of the signs I saw said "The Army Will Pay For Me To Go To College, But How Will I Write?" Below that it had a stick figure with its right arm missing.

Do what you can to convince your child to avoid the military--it is not worth it. There are plenty of ways to get a college education without putting your life on the line.

[hippywife]

42. When my little brother wanted to enlist

Full Metal Jacket was playing at the movie theaters. I took him to see it. It worked. Have yourself a movie night before you decide to blackmail him. Worth a try.