Okay, fuck it. I'm done.(major rant within)

[ET Awful]

I'm completely fucking tired of ineffectual complaining and the associated unwillingness to make an effort to effect change.

Based on what I've seen on DU the past few days, it seems that there are a huge number of people that are either (a) unwilling to work with a group they only agree with partially when it comes to anti-war efforts; or (b) unwilling to do anything to organize differently or participate in the organization process.

It just seems to me that too many people would rather let any anti-war movement die than put any effort into it other than just showing up somewhere and be told where to walk.

I've seen it at every anti-war event I've witnessed, been involved in, or been told of. EVERYONE has something to complain about, but NO ONE is willing to try and effect change.

Fuck it. I give up. I'm only one person, and nobody else is willing to engage in anything but "I HATE ANSWER" bitch-fests.

I'm no fan of ANSWER, but I'm willing to attend their rallies, and I'm also willing to get involved in organizing other rallies. What I'm not willing to do is sit around and bitch and moan about things that I'm not willing to at least try to change.

[TheProphetess]

1. Just for the record

I was at the march on Saturday and I have only good things to say about the feeling of solidarity there. I was definitely confused over people saying otherwise. My experience at this march (and others I've attended) was quite positive.

[RagingInMiami]

5. Yeah, but you're an anti-Semitic, commie-sympathizer

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[ET Awful]

7. You forgot . .

FREE MUMIA!

[RagingInMiami]

10. Whoever he is

I only learned about him this week after all those threads and I pretty much keep up with political issues. The point is, most Americans probably have no clue who he is either.

[ET Awful]

15. Save the Palestinian Whales

. . oh wait, I'm getting my causes confused :evilgrin:

[Ladyhawk]

44. I think the problem was that only C-Span covered the event.

It looked skewed from here, but you know what? I think the protest was a success. I couldn't go, but I helped sponsor someone from my community.

I'm sorry about all the fighting on GD. But this too shall pass. Hopefully, something good will come of it.

(I apologize for not being more involved, but I have a lot of health issues that are interfering. I wish I could be more involved.)

[RagingInMiami]

2. I'm sick of them too

They remind me of those people who only want to play ball if the weather conditions are perfect. If it's too hot or sprinkling, they don't play.

But this antiwar movement will happen with or without those people. If the Iraqi war veterans have no problem marching in a protest organized by ANSWER, I sure as hell don't either.

[ET Awful]

3. As I said in my thread in GD, complaining about organization when

you aren't willing to get involved in organizing is like complaining about the outcome of an election if you don't vote.

[tainowarrior]

4. I feel ya

but don't give up in spirit. I live a too faraway from the main rallies, so I'm only there in spirit. But I'm definitely never gonna give in to Republican ideology. And I'll never salute the flag nor be proud of this country until it changes.

[ET Awful]

6. But you can organize locally.

I'm not sure where you are, but there is always something you can do.

If you can get enough people in your area interested, you can get travel discounts to the main events (for instance, many groups bought bulk train tickets to DC at a very good discount rate).

The difference is you've at least thought about it and aren't attacking organizers.

[tainowarrior]

9. oh, I dont' care much about the composition

I'm not freaked about who organizes the rally, as long as the common message is what I support.

I've stood alongside anarchists, communists, nationalists, socialists, social-democrats, militant revolutionaries, etc.

It don't scare me.

Probably because I'm a socialist bordering on anarchism, so nothing really scares me politically. If you're willing to march for a better world, I'm with you.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. You seem like a friendly person..

can I ask you a question? Just what is anarchy? I mean, I know the literal definition, but "in my day" (viet nam) it wasn't a movement that I was aware of.

Now I hear it referred to a lot and I want to understand what the vision is here.

Thanks for humoring an old woman.

[ET Awful]

17. Insofar as I've seen them at anti-war rallies, they're the folks

that interrupt the proceedings by ranting and raving about nothing in particular while speakers are speaking, complain because nothing goes their way (such as not starting an unpermitted march through Boston for example), then complain more because there's someone trying to keep things organized so their permits don't get pulled and the whole event doesn't get shut down (of course that's just my experience with them in Boston back in March).

:).

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. Okay, I get it

they are middle schoolers?

heh

I teach middle school.

[ET Awful]

21. LOL . . . yeah, like that but older :)

Like if middle schoolers made it to their late teens and early twenties but didn't grow up at all.


:rofl: You actually nailed it pretty good :)

[WilliamPitt]

8. *KOFF*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4904262&mesg_id=4904262

[ET Awful]

13. HEHEHE, thanks Will, maybe it's something in the Mass. water

:).

Nice to know someone I respect is thinking the same things I am :)

[jonnyblitz]

26. yup, that was a great write-up...

:thumbsup:

[Dastard Stepchild]

11. I must have been oblivious to all that...

My mother and I had a great time, and didn't take notice of any of the alleged acrimony that people were purportedly feeling.

We were there to march against the war. Other people may have had another objective, but that's not my concern. Again, I tend to somewhat float through my world in a little bubble of my own making, but I didn't really gather that ANSWER had this overwhelming, unavoidable presence.

I was feelin' the love. :)

[ET Awful]

19. You only REALLY notice the ANSWER folks if you're close to the

stage and listening to some of the weirdness that comes from their speakers.

They do have some pretty freaky folks :). . . it's always odd to be attending an anti-war rally and hear someone that looks halfway rational start talking about you can't end war unless you have a socialist revolution and organize the downthrow of your capitalist swine masters. :)

[Dastard Stepchild]

28. lol...

I fall into this trance when people are speaking with me. :)
If someone takes a conversational path that I am uninterested in traveling down, I tend to start thinking about kittens or cotton candy or a bookstore or some such thing. I nod my head, and I think I even say "uh-huh," but the mind is gone...

An ANSWER person may very well have been trying to induct me into their league of fighters and I probably didn't even know it was happening. There was so much sensory overload there that I couldn't focus on one thing for more than a few seconds. :)

[ET Awful]

30. LMAO, I do the same thing

Them: "mumble mutter mumble rabble rabble rabble"
Me: (silently and to myself) "wow, that cat has a fluffy tail"

[Dastard Stepchild]

32. lol...

<me at the march>

ANSWER folk: "And with the oppressive stranglehold our corrupt capitalist government has on the downtrodden..."

Me (internal dialogue): Oh, dear. The marker on his poster is starting to run. And he's wearing a ... A dog! Someone brought their dog! Aww!...My mother is rubbing her foot... Hey, did she make that necklace outta hemp herself or did she buy it.. I wanna buy an "Impeach Bush pin from that guy but I gotta hit my mom up for cash...Where is the bathroom around here.

[ET Awful]

33. Exactly :)

:rofl:

[tigereye]

12. it seems like there is always some sour grapes about

whomever ran the latest march. This one seemed to be a good thing. Considering that many of the participants had no idea who Answer was
( and I don't either), it seems silly to complain. I seem to remember people complaining about the organizers of every march. At least they got off their butts and did something.

[ET Awful]

14. Thank you! Exactly my point. WARNING: don't say that in GD

people might have a freakin' coronary.

[tigereye]

43. ah

I've been hearing that kind of crap for 20 years.... it gets pretty old. All you have to do is look at all the people who were mobilized, that's the point.

[johnnie]

20. I agree with you

I didn't make it to the rally, but the people whining about ANSWER have not made a good case in my opinion. They were the ones who got it going and they set up the C-span broadcast. I honestly don't think that millions of people were glues to their televisions watching C-span on Saturday.

Even though the MSM hardly mentioned the march, Cindy Sheehan getting herself arrested made a lot more noise out there than the whole C-span coverage. The point was made and then people noticed there was a march in D.C.

In my personal opinion, the people that were complaining about ANSWER "ruining the message" seem to me to be trying to bring the anti-war/pro-peace movement down.

[ET Awful]

22. I don't know that they're trying to bring it down. I think many of them

are well intentioned, but if they aren't willing to do anything to make things different, their complaints about the status quo become more an irritant than anything else.

[johnnie]

31. I don't think all of them are trying to bring it down

From some of the posts I saw, there seemed to be a few "enablers". I think many of them were genuinely pissed that C-span only showed the rally and many at the rally were speaking about other issues. But some people were posting to get a rise out of others and that was what I was talking about. I wasn't clear on my first post.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

23. That's what it is! They were ruining the message. Though I wasn't

there You have to have that "single issue" to rally around.

[Left_Winger]

24. I know this isn't much but...

Last Friday the National Guard recruiters were on my school campus. During lunch their mission was to attract high schoolers to join the Guard. So, I intervened (ran interference, so to speak) by telling them of my past military service, which is quite substantial, and that I might consider re-enlisting (a total lie), but I succeeded in diverting the two recruiters from going after the students for the entire lunch break.

I know this is not much, but it is a drop in the bucket and every little bit helps. Some of my students saw me talking to them and were concerned that I just might be contemplating going back in, but when I told them what I was doing, they thanked me for keeping the recruiters away from them.

[ET Awful]

29. WELL DONE :)

Good job.

I've actually told people about my 8 years in the military and why they shouldn't join (some listened, 2 didn't and are in Germany now).

[jonnyblitz]

25. yup they can go get fucked as far as I am concerned...

it seems like it is more then just about ANSWER..

[meganmonkey]

27. I, for one, just ignore those threads completely now

Before the march there were concerns expressed about ANSWER and I tried to help people understand how the whole thing works, but to no avail.
I know it may be better if I still participated in them to back up the folks who stay positive about it like you, but I just don't have the patience right now. Especially the folks who never even go to rallies and have no fucking idea what they are talking about. As for the people who attend and say they won't go to events that ANSWER is involved in, well, I am just sorry that all the amazing, positive things about last weekend were overshadowed by one organization. If UFPJ or someone else can handle all the logistics and planning then more power to them. But right now, we need a coalition of diverse groups, and some of them are coming from different angles. In my mind, that is what makes this country great - we are all different. Imagine that :shrug:

[jonnyblitz]

34. this time around has been the worst for the ANSWER whining...

total fucking hysteria.

[bridgit]

35. naw, you're doing fine, ET Awful, i saw that shit over there...

it was already too protracted to bring back around but i think i see what you're referring to. the 'anti movement' itself is stratifying yet again (the right seems to love a shifting, irregular shape to tinker with), certain within are already beginning to think that they are the pro-genus inheritors of antiwar selfrighteousness...for whatever reason.

i'm not a big ANSWER fan, or stock holder either, but to deny them free speech is to throw the baby out with the bath water; too many of the rest are already touting themselves as Cindy's personal friends & eternal confidants & what-all, denouncing all others as trash on two feet & i just think that to be a form of usury for personal gain when it is Cindy's cross to bare. friends in arms; observers we are but witness, or indeed: journalists.

factional-ized opposition complete with competing, denigrating rivalries will be the means by which the same ole republican ghosts slip through those cracks as well imo of course.

do not "give up" unify...we've yet to try that in practice

[LynneSin]

36. Your rant has made me think alot this past hour

I know I've been one of the major ranters against ANSWER (but not Cindy - I don't understand that one). I just don't understand how they can promote one hour for speakers and then turn around and force 3 hours on us. When you have several speakers your last speaker should be the BIG BANG; all the final fireworks being shot off in one fantastic display. And that person should have been Cindy. She has done such an amazing job rallying our country together and getting us back out on the streets fighting against the war. She should have been the one to finish up with the speakers and announce the start of the rally (BTW, I did love the march - that was amazing).

So I'm sitting here at home stewing in my own self about this whole ANSWER thing and it made me realize. I want to get involved somehow. No, not with ANSWER, but I'd love to get involved with UPJ and help them organize these protest. Maybe use my loud mouth to tell them "YOU CAN DO THIS ON YOUR OWN".

But you're right ET, time to stop bitching and time to start doing something about this. I've shown that I have some skills with organizing events and although I'm not about to organize my own protest, maybe I can volunteer to help with the next big one in DC

Thanks for your rant - it really did mean something!

[ET Awful]

38. Thanks Lynne, I appreciate it :)

And give Abbot and Evita a ear scratch or belly rub for me (whichever they prefer). :)

[LynneSin]

39. Abbott is belly and Evita is a fur brushing

:pals:

[ET Awful]

41. Hehehe, Althea is an anything that involves attention, and Quinn

is a top of the head only, and only when he's in the mood :)

[WCGreen]

47. Good Point LS, good point

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. I think Mumia should be freed

[jonnyblitz]

40. a retrial at the least. i find the viceral reaction on here towards

him to be racist. "scary black man with dreadlocks".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. no shit

[NMMNG]

45. Good rant

I was at the protest, as you know. When somebody else was complaining about how he refused to attend it because of ANSWER I replied and another person sniped at me. Whatever. We went, we did what we went to do and hopefully we effected a change, if only a small one. Other people sat home and bellyached.

[WCGreen]

46. Dude, I've been involve way too long, from the inside,

to really get excited about what went wrong in DC...

I have always been a proponent of a single message.... Keep it simple... Americans are bombarded with messages all the time, political, social, commercial and others....

A message has to be concise or it is lost in the background noise...

the only message that really matters is that a whole bunch of people went to DC to protest the war.....

That message probably had an effect on how the Media is covering the Bush Administration and the republican party....

they see that march as a part of the whole potential unraveling of the GOP majority....

I could care less about the Cuban Five, or the Communist Socialist party diluting the message....

All that really mattered is that over 100k people, from all walks of life, obviously made an impression....

No, the march won't stop the war... With or with out ANSWER...

But it is a part of the whole picture that American's now see....

The reason....

The simple message that held up the Bush gang, we are resolute, came crumbling down....

It can never be put back together....