Smart grandchild exposes huge PLOT HOLE in "CINDERELLA"!

[Radio_Lady]

This is cute...

My seven-year-old granddaughter gets to see a lot of films with me because I'm a movie reviewer.

Yesterday, we were talking about movies she had seen, and why she did or didn't like them. I told her I didn't like "Cinderella" because it depicts a wicked stepmother. (I'm a stepmother and I'm NOT wicked, so there...)

She said she didn't believe "Cinderella." Here's her reason:

"The story says that the magic spell turns everything back to what it was at the stroke of midnight.

Cinderella's carriage turns back into a pumpkin, her horses go back to being mice, and her clothes all turn to rags.

But what about her glass slipper? How come THAT stays the same so the Prince can find her and fit it on her foot? The glass slipper should not have just stayed a glass slipper. It should have turned back to leather or rags. It's not logical."

Is that a smart kid, or what?

[ZombieNixon]

1. ...and then the world exploded.

[Radio_Lady]

2. You're just a big fisted --

smart ass...

But, I forgive you.

[ZombieNixon]

5. Reason will be the death of us all!

:P

[Radio_Lady]

21. And a LACK of reasoning will create -- WHAT?

A bunch of SHEEPLE? Lousy movies with lots of things that wouldn't or couldn't possibly happen?

What's your point?

[ZombieNixon]

22. Things like Cinderella.

Sorry, I forgot to insert this: :sarcasm:

My bad.

[Radio_Lady]

26. You not bad. You just forgetful. Not a problem...

It's late -- I've got to get to bed. Regretfully, alone. Hubby doesn't keep my hours.

In peace,

Radio Lady

[ZombieNixon]

27. G'night

I should go to sleep too. Alone as well, but that's because I live in a dorm.

[RevCheesehead]

3. Hey, Radio Lady!

I've been dying to ask you - how did your surgery go? Did you share any of your "jokes" with the doctor that day? :hi:

[Radio_Lady]

6. Y'know, I did use two of the jokes, but he told me he'd heard about

every one in the book! When I asked him to make me "a perfect A**HOLE" -- he quipped, "I'll do my best!"

P.S. I have to go back for more "radical" rectal treatment in a couple of months. It ain't over 'til it's over. Larry D. and I have another date after the holidays... 'Nuf said.

[RevCheesehead]

7. So it all turned out OK in the end?

:7

[Radio_Lady]

11. Well, it's a work in progress, so to speak...

[RevCheesehead]

15. There's a joke in there -

(trust me, it's there) but I don't want to get your thread locked, like last time. :evilgrin:

I'm glad things went well, and hope that the rest is relatively painless.

[Radio_Lady]

23. It was so painless that I really thought nothing had happened.

I'm still not sure. And, unlike with the sigmoid test, he didn't put the procedure on a TV monitor so I could see for myself.

PM me with any of your good jokes. Or else this thread will get "rear ended"...

[Az]

4. Ya got a junior skeptic there

Get her watching old school Scooby Doo right away. Keep her away from the Scrappy Doo stuff. No masks or investigation involved there.

[Radio_Lady]

9. You're right. This is the kid who gazed on Christmas decorations

when we were driving around the neighborhood.

"God doesn't DO anything!" she burbled. I love her to death. She's going to give her mother lots of fun in a few years. As people say, "Grandchildren are parents' revenge on their children."

[Az]

12. In case you are interested in really feeding the "beast"

There really is a Skeptic Jr. Its a pull out of the Skeptic magazine. The main part of the mag may be a bit dry for her, but the skeptic jr part is very entertaining and teaches critical thought and a respect for science.

http://www.skeptic.com/oldsite/index.html

[Radio_Lady]

19. Great idea! Grandma and Gabrielle are skeptics! Super site!

Thanks so much. I'll look into Skeptic, Jr. Sounds like something I'd read on my radio program.

I already teach my granddaughther skepticism. Her mother keeps Kosher and believes in Conservative Judaism. I don't. Consequently, my granddaughter and grandson are allowed to have bacon, shrimp, sausages or other stuff when they eat out with us -- and even non-Kosher corn dogs when they're at our house. This was a truce we won in a well-fought battle throughout the past seven years.

Every little step helps with the re-indoctrination.

[LisaL]

8. There is no hole in the story.

Slippers were not magic.
They were actual glass slippers given to her by her godmother. Not some old shoes turned into glass slippers.

[Radio_Lady]

10. Quoting from one of the 1,500 renditions of the story of Cinderella --

From: http://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resources_ftp/client_ftp/ks1/english/story_telling/cinderella/documents/cinderellatext.doc

"...Cinderella soon returned with the pumpkin and the cat with seven mice he had caught in the cellar. With a flick of the magic wand the pumpkin turned into a sparkling coach and the mice became six white horses, while the seventh mouse turned into a coachman in a smart uniform and carrying a whip. Cinderella could hardly believe her eyes.

“You shall go to the ball Cinderella. But remember! You must leave at midnight. That is when my spell ends. Your coach will turn back into a pumpkin and the horses will become mice again. You will be dressed in rags and wearing clogs instead of these glass slippers! Do you understand?” Cinderella smiled and said, “Yes, I understand!” ... etc.

What's your source?

[LisaL]

16. The cinderella cartoons and movies I saw as a child.

The godmother always used her magic wand on the rest of the things. But she gave her an actual glass slippers, they weren't made from old shoes using magic. You know, somebody besides your grandson might have realized there was a hole in a story, so, in cartoons and movies, it was corrected.
:rofl:

[Rabrrrrrr]

18. That's just it - there is no ONE definitive version

Every version of Cinderella has its own merits. And since it's a folk story, handed down and passed around, shitloads of variants exist that have meaning to each specific community that retold the story.

Disney simply followed the pattern that had been established, that fairy tales and kid's stories like Cinderalla were totally open to whatever changes or interpretations the story teller wanted.

When it comes to folklore, there is NOTHING that is canonical.

NOTHING.

[Radio_Lady]

20. Hey! I understand that! Sounds like the Bible and its various

interpretations. That's been going on for at least a couple of thousand years -- and even before, if you count the various inanimate and animate objects that people have worshipped throughout the ages.

So, it all comes down to a religion thing after all.

I knew it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. No, interpretation is entirely different from changing the story

and that's not to say that the Biblical story didn't change throughout its existence before canonization - the evidence seems pretty clear that there was a lot of editing, changing, mixing, etc. That's just normal, and not to be taken as a reason why should throw the Bible away, OR embrace it. It's just truth, and has no moral value of its own.

I only want to be clear that *interpretation* and *rewriting* are entirely different beasts.

Whether it's the Bible or any piece of great literature, anyone can interpret it, and will likely intperpret it differently than someone else. But that doesn't mean they are changing the story.

This whole post is an argument on semantics, not on Biblical criicism.

[Radio_Lady]

28. Y'know, Rab-six rs, this is way too authoritarian and argumentative for

me. I feel like I'm back in debating club.

My thesis: All Bibles (or whatever written text you follow) were written by MAN not GOD (or ALLAH or BUDDHA). Translations are not necessarily "interpretations" but they certainly can be. Rewriting is also a kind of "interpretation" although perhaps it shouldn't be.

You are certainly into splitting hairs -- I know that's what's going on here.

[Rabrrrrrr]

33. I am indeed splitting hairs.

Which is why I said my argument was about semantics, not Biblical criticism. And ultimately, it's a small hair, but it's an IMPORTANT hair.

The distinction between "interpretation" and "translation" and "rewriting" IS important. Especially when speaking of the Bible, mention of which you made first, which is what started me on this subthread. There are many translations of the Bible, and every translation is also a form of interpretation, because one cannot translate anything without some interpretation going on. But there are at least as many interpretations of the Bible as there are people who read it.


Though I don't know that it's worth arguing over, especially not in this thread, and I'm sorry for raising what is a rather minor issue in the totality of the subject of this thread.

[Az]

13. Technically it was a translation error

The original story really has the slippers being made of fur.

[Radio_Lady]

25. No wonder they have so much trouble at the United Nations.

Can you imagine having to translate big, long speeches from one language to another -- almost instantaneously? And what hangs in the balance? The relationships of nations -- the fates of people. It's almost painful to think about it.

We can't even get the story of "Cinderella" right!

[Lex]

14. I sort of remember that too.

That the shoes weren't part of anything that "turned" that night--they existed already.

[Radio_Lady]

17. Hm-m-m! Alternate endings! How interesting! You are a bright crew!

Thanks for the fascinating input.

In peace,

Radio Lady

[Lex]

29. Here, this is the first one that popped up on Google for me

"Oh! yes," cried she; "but must I go thither as I am, in these nasty rags?"

Her godmother only just touched her with her wand, and, at the same instant, her clothes were turned into cloth of gold and silver, all beset with jewels.

This done, she gave her a pair of glass slippers, the prettiest in the whole world. Being thus decked out, she got up into her coach; but her godmother, above all things, commanded her not to stay till after midnight, telling her, at the same time, that if she stayed one moment longer, the coach would be a pumpkin again, her horses mice, her coachman a rat, her footmen lizards, and her clothes become just as they were before.

-------

Some of it was magic, but the slippers she "gave" her--and didn't say they would go away at midnight.

That's the way I remembered it.

http://www.rickwalton.com/folktale/blue07.htm

[Radio_Lady]

30. Well, thanks for this great thread. My granddaughter and I will have

fun discussing "alternate endings" for movies and fairy tales.

In fact, we might even talk about "Corpse Bride" (which she is afraid to see because of the macabre nature of the subject). This is not a children's movie, but its humor outweighed its dark material, in my estimation. The ending is purely cinematic, because in the original story, there is no "other woman" -- just a corpse that accidentally gets married to a living man. "Be careful with your vows" seems to be the message.

How about an alternate ending for "Sleeping Beauty" or "Snow White"? Let's work on those another time!

In peace,

Radio Lady

[jackelope72]

31. The Grimm Brothers version doesn't even have a fairy godmother...

if I remember correctly. Cinderella goes to her mother's grave, where her tears have turned the branch being used for a grave marker into a tree. Her mother's spirit is in the tree, and she somehow shakes the clothing from the tree onto Cinderella.

There is no curfew, either, and Cinderella actually goes to the ball three times. After she runs away the first two times, the Prince tries to ensnare her by smearing the stairs with pitch (tar). Her shoe comes off and she escapes.

The shoe-fitting scene is pretty gruesome, too. In order to make the shoe fit, one of the stepsisters cuts off her toe and the other cuts off her heel. The shoe fits, but the Prince notices the blood in the shoe and realizes he's been tricked.

And then, when the stepsisters show up at Cinderella's wedding, birds fly in and peck out their eyes.

They may have been good folklorists, but the Grimm Brothers were pretty fucked up individuals.

[northzax]

32. I have a 1911 first edition

of a printing of the Brother's Grimm, and it is not pleasant reading. I mean the stories are good, but not for children.

[Lisa0825]

34. That always bugged me too!!!

good for her! question everything!LOL! :applause:

[redqueen]

35. Good catch!

Smart, indeed! :D