Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

[Benfea]

Is that an incredibly obnoxious title for a game, or what? There's something incredibly, inherently, fundamentally wrong with a sub-subhead for a title of anything. Not only is it incredibly long, but it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. "Torino 2006 - the Official Video Game of the XX Olympic Winter Games" is longer, but at least it's coherent.

It also happens to own my soul right now. Ever since I bought the @$#% thing, I can't seem to stop playing it. KotOR 1 was aimed more at a wider audience: it's faster, easier, less complex, and more of a "star warsy" feel. KotOR 2 is definitely aimed more at traditional PC CRPG enthusiasts: the game mechanics are more robust and complex, the game mechanics are better balanced (e.g. there're reasons to want every attribute and every skill, so every choice you make involves trade-offs), and it's definitely got a darker, more sinister tone to it.

Of course, I know that the ending is gonna stink (production was rushed at the end), but I still have the feeling I'll get more replay value out of this one than I did out of the first one, and I loved the first one.

Dunno how many CRPG gamer geeks we have around here, but I just thought I'd share. I hope Obsidian doesn't go out of business like Black Isle did, and I look forward to their next title.

[hobo_baggins]

1. i didn't even know that game was out yet...shows what i know

I always wanted to play KotOR, but only really saw my friends playing it...i really liked what i saw though...the new one sounds good too...but i guess i should start at the beginning...

I hate it when production is rushed...i loved the first disc of xenogears, but the second disc is such a rush job that it makes the ending very disappointing

[Benfea]

3. In terms of rushed production, KotOR 2 is worse than usual.

There are subplots that never get resolved. The ending itself is bizarre and doesn't make much sense. The most bizarre thing is that there is a ton of content (voice acting, movies, maps, quests, etc.) on the disks that gets installed when you install the game, but never actually appear when you play the game, and it's mostly stuff towards the end.

Oddly enough, Obsidian could return all that stuff to the game just by making a patch with modified script files, but LucasArts has specifically forbidden them to do that for reasons I can't fathom. There is a movement by players to restore the lost content to the game. The fact that players have to resort to this is a really sad commentary (I have a lot less respect for LucasArts now), but the player project is expected to be done sometime in early Spring (they're hoping Marchish).

You can read more about it here:
http://team-gizka.org/

[drhilarius]

2. I actually preferred KOTOR 2 to the original...

more dialog, so it allowed for more character development, growth, and decision making. The influence system was a good idea ( I had two student jedi under my belt). Also, I was happy there wasn't a level cap on the game. But, yes, the ending sucked balls.

[Benfea]

5. I'm really digging the influence system.

Heck, I like all the changes they made to dialog. Skills are no longer so irrelevant because many of them allow for new dialog options that have a real impact on how the game and story unfold. The influence system is a really neat idea and really helps to flesh out the NPCs and make them more real.

Then again, many of the management of Obsidian came from Black Isle (Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, etc.), and Black Isle was well known for large, complex dialog trees that both impact the game and are affected by what you do in the game.

[realisticphish]

20. i had THREE jedi

neener neener ;)

[Benfea]

28. Who'd you convert into a Jedi?

There're a bunch of different ones you can train into Jedi.

[realisticphish]

36. I converted

Mia, Atton, and Handmaiden. Of course Krea and Vesas were already jedi, of a sort, and none of the others were human. There were rumors that you could turn Hanhaar, but I don't believe that

[Benfea]

37. Three? Holy crap.

My first time around, I only turned Bao Dur. I got some kind of bug with the Handmaiden and she never became a jedi even though we went through the right dialog options. Grrrrr.

[realisticphish]

38. oh, shit i forgot about bao dur

i got him too, but not in the same game.

and yeah, i tried playing again recently, and handmaiden glitched the same way

[Atmashine]

4. The title is not as bad as:

Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie

[Benfea]

6. Yeah, but even that is more coherent and less disjointed.

At least in my opinion. ;)

[GirlinContempt]

7. LucasArts

They brought you such titles as Star Wars Rebellion.
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/rebellion/splash.htm
Think about it.

[Benfea]

8. Never played that one.

Of course, most Star Wars games blow chunks, so I mostly stay away from them. The only reason I bought KotOR was because there was so much buzz around it.

[GirlinContempt]

11. Don't play it.

It's AWFUL

[Benfea]

13. In other words, just like most of the Star Wars games out there.

Dark Forces got critical acclaim, but I didn't particularly care for those either.

[Benfea]

9. KotOR 3 to have realtime combat system.

To quote various Star Wars characters: "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/680/680220p1.html

[ContraBass Black]

32. The guy in the Mercenaries Screenshot looks like Han Solo.

[Benfea]

33. Han Solo-like characters are common in Star Wars games

As are most of the other archetypes (e.g. wookies, perky astromech droids, etc.).

[ContraBass Black]

34. I thought Mercenaries was a thoroughly earthbound

commando game.

[tigereye]

10. I think that's the one my kid has been bugging me for -

he loves all the other games of that type. He's not old enough, though, to have developed much discrimination about whether the games are good or not.

I should have him talk to you, I just tell him to stop and play something with less blasting! ;)

[Benfea]

12. How old is he?

Both games include a bit of flirtatious dialog, and include adult things like, oh, I dunno. Destroying entire planets full of people and stuff.

[tigereye]

21. um he's 10

probably not quite old enough... I try to have my husband keep an eye on the content, since I can't always tell which games are "appropriate" from the one person shooter and RPG standpoint....Let's just say he isn't playing Leisure Suit Larry or anything like that.
I prefer Age of Empires and such as far as mayhem goes. ;)

[Benfea]

23. Strategy games are good for kids!

Not only does it teach them reasoning and strategy, but all that resource management is likely to come in handy when they move out later! ;)

[tigereye]

29. good answer

he was just reminding me that he wants the game you mentioned for his birthday. We had a long talk in the car about why 10 year olds don't need a steady diet of "T" games.

[Benfea]

31. He'll be ready for teen stuff soon enough.

In the meantime, stock up on lotsa strategy games.

Anything by Sid Meier (Civilization, Gettysburg, etc.) or Will Wright (Sim City, The Sims, etc.) oughtta be good. :thumbsup:

[tigereye]

35. the Sims do not interest him at all -

oddly. He is much more into the Ancient Civ games....like Age of Empires, and the like.

[Benfea]

39. Sid Meier's Civilization series is the ultimate example of that genre -NT

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. I enjoyed both games, really. Once my small fry have finished with

Dungeon Siege and NeverWinter Nights I am gonna let them install the KOTORs on their machines. (Yes, my 6 and 8 yo have their own computers.)

[Benfea]

15. Dungeon Siege is a fun little hackfest.

I'm not enjoying Dungeon Siege 2 nearly as much, though. The boss fights can be really annoying.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. I have avoided that one so far, not because I don't like it but because I

don't want to confuse myself. I am trying to help the kids through the old ones and changing to the latest one would mess with my head.

I downloaded a nice little mod based on the old one that was a lot of fun. Got to bring my whole party including my pimp hat and bubberjack chicken spell over into it. Was a bit boring at first because my team was beastly strong for the wimpy little monsters in some areas but eventually I ended up fighting some Hassat that made it all worth while.

My little guy and I are having a terrible time with NWN, though. We hate not being able to change stuff in our henchman's inventory and somehow, even though we got all 4 ingredients for the wailing death cure, the game insists we only delivered 3.. and won't tell us which ones!!! Went back to every area scouring the ground to see if we dropped something but no dice. *siiigh* We may install one of the expansions instead of starting this one over.

[Benfea]

18. About Dungeon Siege

Really big parties are not necessarily a good idea. The more people you have in your party, the slower everyone levels up.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

16. I played the first one of those

I really enjoyed it immensely. The twist towards the end literally stunned me -- I had to stop for a second and say "Whaaa?" Never, ever had that happen while playing a game before. Only very rarely experienced that from a movie/TV show/play.

I was excited to play the newer one, but I figured I'd wait until it was out for a while and the price dropped. (Also, I had heard that the ending was heavily rushed, so...)

[Benfea]

22. I bought it for $20... retail.

The price is down and the player-made mod that replaces all the ending stuff should be done in a month or two.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

24. Thanks for the heads up

I haven't been game shopping since I picked up Civ IV back in October, and the price was still high then.

And then Civ IV has kind of occupied all of my game-playing time for the last 6 months or so...

[Benfea]

25. Civ 4 owns my soul.

Sid Meier is god and I will kill anyone who says different.

[realisticphish]

19. KOTOR II is a gift from the gods

seriously. I was depressed when I finished it, because I couldn't follow the characters anymore.

[malmapus]

26. Curse you for this thread!!!

I never bought KOTOR 1, but got back into my interest in Star Wars via Empire at War and then remembered my friends telling me about this game. Let alone find out there is a sequel to it. Then I find that both are on sale at amazon.com for $17.00.

Ugh, I want them so badly..can't wait the two weeks till I get paid again lol.

[Benfea]

27. They are both REALLY good CRPGs.

Although I find the turret game in KotOR really annoying. There are mods you can download that make the turret games easier if you're a klutz like me.

Anyway, Bioware and Obsidian (née Black Isle) have produced some of the best CRPGs of the last decade. Enjoy them when you get them.

[Benfea]

30. Just finished the whole game.

Honestly, the ending wasn't as bad as everyone made it out to be. There were a few minor subplots that never got resolved, but other than that it was plenty gratifying.