When is Rap Music (or is it now called Hip Hop?) going to die?

[El Supremo]

I mean, Disco died. Buddy Holly died. When will people get tired of this shit?

I can't believe that song won an Oscar.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[karlrschneider]

1. Not soon enough.

:puke:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

2. Hip-hop is not the stuff you see on TV or hear on the radio.

Taking that song to represent hip-hop is like using Toby Keith to represent country.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Hopefully soon

[bballny]

4. Let me quote Greg Allman

rap is crap

[no name no slogan]

11. Greg Allman? That's as bad as quoting Ted Nugent

The only thing memorable Greg Allman has done since his brother died was marry Cher.

[Fenris]

15. ...

:rofl:

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. Could you select a bigger cracker for that quote?

:rofl:

[bballny]

36. For all you dudes

If any of you ever saw the original Allmans they were great. I saw them 4 times with Duane and I saw them close the Fillmore East and He may be a cracker but they were a great band

[argyl]

44. Loved Duane but Gregg is a real POS. Snitched out a roadie to beat

a dope rap,statutory rapist,a real nasty piece of work.

[bballny]

64. but he is right

[argyl]

88. Gangsta rappers could learn from Gregg and Dickie Betts about being

misogynist assholes. A whole lot. Allman Brothers haven't done anything decent in 35 years.
Rap ain't my cup of tea but there's no denying its influence. Millions love it so there must be something there.

[Redstone]

5. Music? That ain't music.

And what the FUCK is it with those spastic hand gestures?

Redstone

[ghostsofgiants]

21. Informed opinion? That ain't informed opinion.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

6. I like rap and hip-hop......

....but that song just flat sucked.

[okieinpain]

53. I pretty much like all music, but that is a pretty shitty rap song.

[HEyHEY]

7. You're all a bunch of racists!

[CatWoman]

8. I wouldn't go that far

but hip hop is not for everyone.

I happen to like it. Not all of it. But I grew up with it basically.

People just don't understand it.

That's what the "off" knob is for.

[no name no slogan]

26. Rap is like most music: 95% of it is utter crap

but the other (good) 5% is so good it makes up for the other 95%.

I can take or leave most of it, but there's some stuff that just blows my mind.

[Deja Q]

29. Exactly.

[Tallison]

30. Except for the Blues, in which case

only 39% of it is.

[LynneSin]

71. You have just best summed up music

I totally agree!

[Bridget Burke]

73. And the commercially popular stuff is mostly from that 95%....

You can't damn an entire genre from what you hear on the radio. (Says this diehard Country fan.)

[okieinpain]

54. thank you. I agree with you 110%.

[LWolf]

75. A sincere question:

I understand that not all forms of music are liked by all. I don't have to like it for it to be valid.

It's the misogynistic lyrics. The genre is so riddled with it, I can't get past it. It gives me the creeps. Watching a song performed, and winning, about how "it's hard to be a pimp," angered me.

How hard is it to be one of the pimp's "girls?" That never seems to count.

Finally, the question:

What is it that people like about glorifying misogyny? Or what is it that I'm not "getting?"

[El Supremo]

14. I hope you are being sarcastic.

I always loved Motown and Jazz and many other black originated music. But this junk is crap.



:banghead:

[HEyHEY]

28. Just cause it speaks against the man?

[El Supremo]

32. No comprendo.

Am I supposed to listen to the words? All I ever hear is filth. Filth for shock value only. It might be better if it had a tune or melody.

[HEyHEY]

34. Cracker!

[El Supremo]

41. No, I'm more of a redneck...

who loves Bluegrass (both old and new). Oh, and Puccini and Stevie Wonder.

[meow2u3]

49. You only heard the radio crap

Real rap is done by guys like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Sage Francis, Public Enemy, Immortal Technique, and other conscious lyricists.

They rap aboout what the hell is going on in society, the rampant corruption of government, etc., and they don't glamorize filth.

[Blue-Jay]

33. You just don't like it because *you're* the "man".

Take THAT, Whitey!

[asthmaticeog]

46. When, WHEN will the menace of ebony "Jazz" stop threatening our youth?

[leftofthedial]

9. when the median IQ actually gets back up to 100

(it has a l-o-n-g way to go)

[cynatnite]

10. Hopefully never

This genre's given us some great music that is politically relevant and can move the masses. Mosh comes to mind.

I'm surprised the song won, but I don't mind at all.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

12. It's not our thing at all

Are we out of touch? I'm PROUD to be out of touch!

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. I wouldn't be proud to be that kind of out of touch

And I don't think it was the kind of out of touch Clooney was talking about...

[SeveneightyWhoa]

25. Yes. You're old and white.

I doubt the song was made for you. :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. I'm astounded by the responses on this thread

Progressive? :rofl:

But then, the form will continue long after the racist stupidites have been exposed for what they are, so I guess it shouldn't matter. As hip hop goes, I don't think that song was that good, but hip hop itself is an incredible art form, regardless of the nonsenses spewed here. Oh, I know, I know, you really really like Coltrane, so saying rap is not music is not racist. Whatever.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

35. I know, eh?

This thread could be transferred directly to FreeRepublic without changing a word, and it wouldn't seem out of place.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

43. I don't have a racist bone in my body

I don't like Eminem, either. I don't like country music, either; am I supposed to because I'm white?

[Bridget Burke]

69. Well, country music was strongly influenced by Black music.

Even though the Nashville establishment ignores the fact. So--I can understand why you dislike both branches of American music. (Rap/hip-hop being the latest "fruit" on the African-American branch.)

The African-American music of the rural South provided the source for gospel, jazz, and blues, while the oft ignored black contribution to country and hillbilly music went far beyond providing the banjo and Charley Pride. Southern rural musicians drew upon a common well, segregated into blues, country, and folk by recording companies and folklorists only well into the 20th century. Until the explosive emergence of the blues a century ago, blacks played fiddle and banjo for dances throughout the South, entertaining audiences of both races and often playing with European-American musicians.

www.birthplaceofcountrymusic.org/index.cgi?cat=10043

I wondered who bought all those John Tesh records--now I know!

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

86. Ha ha ha

Not I. I'm a Morrissey girl.

[richmwill]

56. So you're saying race equals an entire music spectrum?

Fine. Tell the next African-American that says "I hate country music" that they're racist and hate white people. According to your response, that must be the truth in that situation.

(For the record, I hate hip-hop AND country)

[alcibiades_mystery]

60. No, if somebody says that country music isn't music, then that person

is an ignorant fuckwad, whether he likes country music or not.

That rap is so closely mapped on to race can explain why so many people who don't like rap ALSO say that it isn't music at all, harumph. The problem is not "not liking" rap. The problem is the quite common claim that it doesn't even qualify as music, period. When you get to the bottom of that laughable claim, it's all too clear where the culutral persuppositions stand.

And since we're doing testimonials of personal taste (though they are irrelevant to my point), I like hip hop, and I like only some country. But I would never claim that country music - even those strands of it that make me want to wretch - isn't music. And therein lies the difference.

[bballny]

65. Here is my argument

First off musicians can typically play anywhere from 3 to 5 instruments. My mother could hit 2 and 1/2 octaves and she also was an excellent artist. My cousin graduated from Berklee school of music where you have to be proficient at 5 instruments. Musicians take years of practice to be able to play. I only ask most rappers to prove their musicianship. For the rapper please sing and carry a tune. If he can I will respect him or her. Pretty simple stuff

[Bridget Burke]

72. Well, your standards would rule out most rock & country pioneers.

As well as most of the bluesmen.

I love music from the Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, & Classical eras. But there is life outside the concert hall.

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. Oh please

Rap is a kind of music, and it takes a good deal of musical skill to create a good rap song.

The irony here is that you display your outright class bias in the process. One of the main reasons rap started without instruments is because its practitioners didn't have access to them and the inner city schools cut off music programs. So people invented their own form of music. For most, that's a remarkable accomplishment. For you, it's not really music. But don't worry, you're in a long tradition of racist bullshit, like the 19th century douchebags who thought African drumming was not musical because it wasn't Mozart.

You take one cultural form of music and universalize it, supposedly invalidating any other cultural forms. It's like saying breakdancing isn't really dancing because someone who does it may not know the Foxtrot or the fucking Mashed Potato. That's racism on its face, however many "black friends" you may claim to have. Your criteria are bullshit, pure and simple.

This is even besides the fact that rap producers and many rap artists have very keen musical talents even within those bullshit criteria, which is another story altogether. But let's see if one of your vaunted musicians can get up anhd make his or her voice into an instrument over a beat, rhyming in a packed club, freestyle. Nope, no musical talent there. :eyes:

[Renew Deal]

17. Hopefully no time soon.

It's one of the few areas of music where there is some life.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Didn't you hear? Rap's not music

Greg Allman said so...:eyes:

[ghostsofgiants]

20. Ah, the ignorance of those who think they know hip-hop music...

Based on the shitty songs they hear on tv and the radio. Never gets tiresome. :eyes:

[SeveneightyWhoa]

24. Yeah, as if this song is representative of hip hop.

There's a lot -- LOT -- more to hip hop than what you see on award shows, I'll tell ya that much.

[ghostsofgiants]

27. Seriously.

But the thing is, ignorance is easy.

[GoneOffShore]

22. Listen to Nick Spitzer's show

American Roots.

His show tonight specifically traced out the connection between rap and gospel, blues, and African native music.

I was brought up on Rodgers and Hammerstein, Moss Hart, Lerner and Lowe, Burl Ives, Minnie Pearl, Flatt & Scruggs, Frank Sinatra, etc. I listen to Itzahk Perlman, Pink Martini, Richard Thompson, Emimen, and Gwen Stefani.

The song wasn't exactly my taste, but it was well done.

[alphafemale]

23. I liked "Pimp." It's a fun song.

Certainly better than others that have won "Best Song" in the past.

ehem...

"My Heart Will Go On?"

[Bridget Burke]

74. Most of the Best Songs from the Academy are dreck.

"Pimp" may not be to everyone's taste. But at least they didn't have Celine Dion sing it!

[Connie_Corleone]

31. That song represents what the movie is about.

Rap music (hip hop) is not representative of some song you hear in a movie or on the radio. There's a lot of rap music that is never played on the radio because it's not commercial enough.

It's obvious that some of you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to rap.

[alphafemale]

40. I liked the song...I liked the movie.

Maybe you had to see the movie to appreciate the song.

[bliss_eternal]

37. When country music dies...

in other words, no time soon.

While I'm not fond of the current incarnation of rap, I realize it is making some people a great deal of money. Urban culture is a incredibly popular right now--whether the culture represented in a lot of rap is a depiction many aren't even privy to doesn't seem to matter. Bottom line seems to be the money.

Honestly, I wish it would go back to the rap of the 80's--when rap and hip hop was fun.

While I recognize that the street rap and 'gangsta' incarnation were important in terms of telling the stories that few wanted to know about--the reality of urban life at that time, I feel it has gone past making an important statememt and turned into something sad, disturbing and unnecessary. It went from musical anthropology to something that too many seem to be celebrating. That bothers me...

But that's just me...

I recognize everyone has different likes and dislikes. Everyone's entitled to that. I don't like it, so I don't listen.

[k_jerome]

38. let me quote ted nugent.

hip hop will flop.

[Heidi]

66. Yep, quoting Ted Nugent is _sure_

to persuade countless liberals to your point of view. :thumbsup: Excellent debate tactic. :thumbsup:

[Bridget Burke]

78. I'm sure many here will remind you of that Chickenhawk's dire politics.

However, I had the misfortune of hearing him play in the 1970's. (I worked in the venue.)

Musically, he sucks. He has always sucked. I shudder to imagine his suckitude here in the 21st century.

[Scout1071]

39. Dunno, but it's pretty much killed rock & roll.

Maybe not killed it, but definitely struck a few shiv's in it.

Personally, there is a lot of rap/hip-hop/r&b that I really like as much or more than Rock. My CD collection is pretty evenly divided between the two.

[ET Awful]

70. Nah, rock & roll is in the process of killing itself through stagnation

and lack of creativity. When rock became derivative of things that were derivative of things that were derivative of other things, it started getting a tad boring.

There are still some good bands out there, but they're few and far between and get masked not by hip-hop, but by candy-ass pop stars and no-talent wanna-be rockers who sell albums because teenage girls think they're cute not because they have talent or make good music.

[Bridget Burke]

79. Just like Punk Music did.

The overblown Rock music of that day needed to be killed so it could be reborn. (Although there were some fine, unheralded, bands playing back then--just as there are today.)

Eventually, some kids will get together in their garages & reinvent Rock.

[Dukkha]

42. If you were to judge pop music based on the Oscars

then you'd think the biggest stars were the likes of Phil Collins, Celine Dion, & Elton John
:puke: :puke: :puke:

I though that pimp song sucked but I know there's much better hip hop out there and I'm not even a fan

[rocktivity]

45. Once your beat box is paid for, the rest is profit.

Hip hop is a lot less expensive to produce than a rock band or even a pop singer. That's why the record labels like it, and why so many hiphoppers are self-made.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Idioteque]

47. Have you ever listened to real hip hop?

Yeah, that song sucked. But there are a lot of real hip-hop artists out there who are extremely talented and have a positive, socially aware message.

Listen to some Mos Def or Talib Kweli and then tell me hip hop should die.

[meow2u3]

50. Their positive message is a threat to the corporate masters

No wonder the good hip-hop artists can't get their music on the radio or TV.

The corporate masters actually control the lyrical content of the songs, and if they contain anything that would provoke the people to act against the status quo, execs would refuse to play their songs for long.

Corporate America actually promotes the filth depicting minorities as savages obsessed with predatory sex, gangbanging, drugs, and murder. They promote the 'gangsta' subculture and pass it off as black culture. This way, right-wing whites can feel superior.

[arwalden]

48. I Like It...

Every time I do it I do it for my hood
Every time I do it I do it for my hood
And every time I do it I do it for yo hood
And every time I do it I do it for they hood
It's understood I do it for the hood

[slybacon9]

51. Mos Def, Common, Talib Kweli, De La Soul, Jay Z, the Roots

if you are interested in getting to understand what Hip Hop is, or Rap, please pick any of these up.

The other stuff is bubble gum shit just like everything else on the radio.

There are plenty more out there at that matter. There are many contemporaries that don't live on MTV or allow themselves to be exploited.


A quick reference guide to get you started:

Mos Def -- Black on Both Sides. Listen to the track "Mathematics" . It might change your perspective immediately.

Talib Kweli -- pretty much anything. I would start though with the collaborative he did with Mos Def called Black Star.

Common (who used to be known as Common Sense) -- Start with the song "Ressurection" and then move on to anything else. His latest album, Be, is beautiful.

De La Soul -- anything. Start with the track Itsoweezee

The Roots. I would start with Do You Want More. The whole album.

And Jay Z -- The Black Album. When you listen to Jay Z the thing to keep in mind is that he never writes his lyrics down. They are in his head, and he records them. If you listen, and that doesn't blow your mind... then i give up.


These are the Otis Reddings and Stevie Wonders of our time. Listen and give respect.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

58. Well said!

:thumbsup:

EDIT: Rap haters, listen to this anti-Bush rap song:

http://supadubya.4odt.com/?action=vthread&forum=4&topic=4

[Bridget Burke]

81. Thanks for the info.

I love Country music but I know enough about it to realize how dreadful the "commercial" stuff is. I'm glad to get some useful hints so I can continue my education.

[okieinpain]

52. it's everlasting sweetie. it will never die because it's everything.

[tjdee]

55. Uh, you don't seem to know much about the hip hop culture...

It isn't going anywhere. It's a lot like jazz, which I cannot stand, or early rock and roll.

It is getting to the point now where a rap interlude in a song is like a saxophone in the 80s...but it's really connected to an entire group of people, and those people aren't all of a sudden going to decide they like techno. I think rap will evolve, but I'm fairly certain it's not going to fade like disco.

[Telly Savalas]

57. When are moronic award shows going to die?

[MrScorpio]

59. NEVER!

HIP HOP WILL NEVER DIE!



Now ya know know

[ghostsofgiants]

62. Fuck yes.

[LynneSin]

76. Wait, I don't classify Hip-Hop as the same as Rap

Hip-Hop is usually a bit smoother and more melodic whereas rap is more hard-core and to the point.

Of course it's about the same as trying to discern the difference between Heavy Metal and Hard Rock - two very different musical genres that have overlap between then.

However, that being said - I enjoy Rap music. Not all of it, but there is some great stuff out there to be enjoyed!

[alarcojon]

61. I can't believe some of the haters out here

There is some great rap music out there, and it speaks to a lot of people deeply. If it ain't your thing, don't listen, but you'll shut yourself out from an important worldwide community.

Glad to see the love for Mos Def out there, though.

[LynneSin]

80. Geez, I figured threads like this would be found on Free Republic

not here at DU.

I'm not the biggest fan of rap music, but even I have my favorites and enjoy it from time to time.

I was glad that of the three songs - that song had won last night

[w8liftinglady]

63. I'm a middle-aged white woman,and I like rap

there is a lot of creativity in the lyrics,and it is great to work out to.

[GOPisEvil]

67. A song you don't like wins an award that will be forgotten in a week

and you want a whole genre of music to disappear? :rofl:

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. As was illustrated, they seemed to be the only winners who were overjoyed

at winning. Good on them. There is room for us all...along with our tastes in music.

[vi5]

77. That song is terrible but also not indicative of rap as a whole

Not liking rap doesn't make you racist. It does make you old and out of touch though. Hell at this point rap is today's rock and and roll whether any of us like it or not. Even kids who are complete racists and bigots still like rap music. It's way more popular than any fad music style and has been for going on at least 15 years now. It's not going anywhere.

[HughBeaumont]

83. When suburban white kids stop liking it . . . which will be never.

Got news for the rock fans - suburban white kids never stopped liking that either. The only difference is Rock is doing the right thing and re-inventing itself in the underground. It's getting more progressive, more in touch with it's ballsy 60s-70s creativity and greatness and thankfully moving away from the mookish Korn/Blink 182 copycat horseshit that's been plaguing it for the past decade. Don't read Rolling Stone or the woefully inept Spin to find out where the good new rock stuff is coming from - read Alternative Press. While they're generally still bogged down in running the flag for emo/fashioncore, they're still more in touch with what's good than a lot of mainstream mags out there.

This is something rap needs to do, but won't, because it's still fashionable among white teens to associate with being the bad guy . . . as it always has been. Same as your parents did in the 60s-70s and your grandparents did in the 50s (arguably with better written, produced and time-tested music, but that's another thread).

I used to exclusively listen to hip hop in the late 70s - early 80s, but in '85, I discovered Husker Du and Metallica. Then after 1994, everyone started trying to out-Chronic The Chronic and it's been on a downhill slide since then. It's mainstream ubiquity killed it for me - all too identical and nothing much at all to say, and because of it, I just get tired of hearing ALL of it. Ain't really my dance anymore anyway; I like guitar riffs, drones and screams. I'm more into bands like Isis, godspeed you black emperor, Neurosis, High on Fire and Mastodon.

[ET Awful]

84. Rap has been mainstream for almost 30 years, it's not going anywhere

Might as well get used to it.

[eeyore]

85. If you didn't see the movie you don't get the song at all...

The movie is all about the creation of that song, using it as a tool for that pimp to try to better his life. The whole damn movie is about the struggle of an inner city black man who is trying to use what he knows, hiphop, to get out of pimping, the only lifestyle that he has ever known.

I would suggest you get off of your racist ass and go see the movie before you judge it. You may not like the song, but it represents an incredibly important part of our culture that you seem to be completely unwilling to examine.

This is the kind of attitude that inspired Kanye West to say that George Bush doesn't care about black people. I believe he was speaking in broader terms, actually meaning that white people don't care about black people. Hustle and Flow is about the same kind of people whose lives were devalued so much my our government that the were allowed to drown in New Orleans.

Why the hell would you ask that kind of a question? Basically what you're asking is, when will those uppity negros fall back in line and entertain me like they used to?

You may not like the style, but it is incredibly important to an entire culture that you just flippantly discounted.

[RDU Socialist]

87. Big difference between disco and rap

disco lasted eight, nine years at most. Rap has been around since the late seventies. I know it's hard for you to fathom in your isolated, probably single chromatic world, but lots of people find rap to be enjoyable. You can quote all the hick right wing racists you want to call it crap, doesn't prove shit. By the way, was this board acting like this when Eminem won an Oscar for best song in 2003? Or is it because he looks like most of us that the "outrage" over a rap song winning best song was much less prevalent?