Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Toilet Paper Replacement...Over or Under?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:27 AM
Original message
Poll question: Toilet Paper Replacement...Over or Under?
We just had a "discussion" about this last night. I replace the roll so it hangs over-away from the wall. My daughter ALWAYS, even after I pop a gasket-replaces it so that the paper is under...against the wall. Just one of those little things that drives me closer to rounding that bend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
tjwmason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. As we would expect.
Mrs. G. is bang on correct and perfect. I'm guessing that if we got out the tape-measure she'd be the same height as Mary Poppins.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. It's a rainy day, I have an umbrella....hmmmmmm....
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
58. Darling! You could simply have run 'round to MY perfect bathroom...
to see that OVER is the ONLY way to roll!

Why is this even in question?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Over, unless you have cats
then under. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Or babies! (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Babies and toilet paper make great photo ops!
Hey you! How are things? :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Great. Start my new job in a few weeks!
Until then, I continue to scrape by.

I'm taking Garrison to see my dad this weekend tho. Got round trip tickets to Chicago for 80 bucks!

:hugs:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Congrats! And Good luck! Safe travels!
I bet your dad can hardly wait! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Yep. A certain little doggie will build a nest...
...unless we remember to load it under-fashion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Merlin has never bothered with the toilet paper roll. He's to busy
tipping over flower pots and vases. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
64. Or in my case, hidden altogether.
I wish I had the video my mother made of Yogi, one of my strange cats, with a roll of TP. If is either hidden or hanging without a sheet flapping in the breeze, it is safe from the paws and drool of Yogi. If not, he's off with the whole entire roll and I am vacuuming and cussing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. I. uh...agree with your daughter
And I don't go out of my way to intentionally drive people around the bend, MrsG.

I've ALWAYS replaced it under...against the wall. Our family did the same thing when I was growing up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. I wouldn't hold it against you if you were ever to be a guest in my house.
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Over is correct, however, at least your daughter changes the roll.
She could ignore things altogether.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Only when threatened.
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. A ha!!! I see...it's clear now.
"I'll change the roll, but I'll do it the way mom HATES!!"

That's one passive-aggressive Grumpette. I should know, I was the same way. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. And THAT, dear GOP, is exactly what the argument was about.
She denies her p/aness...and it is plain as day. :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. Over, it's too hard to find the end
at night when the lights are all off if it's on there "wrong"!;) At least that's how I see it.:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Darned tootin'!
it's refreshing to see so many "overs" :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. The job is never finished....
...until the paper work is done :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Well, as long as everything comes out okay.
;) :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Up_and_over.
I had the hubby trained.
Then I changed bathrooms and he reverted back to his old ways :shrug: sometimes ya just can't teach 'em anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Hehehehe...like sitting down everytime they go...
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. One or two learned it was more comfortable to sit.
and less of a challenge for their aim at 3 in the morning
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StaggerLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
19. Over! And this poll will settle this age old question once and for all!
When Over wins out all you dissenters had better comply dammit!

:hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. We will forward these results to the National Committee on Water Closet
Propriety. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StaggerLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Water Closet
Now that's a term I haven't heard in a long while.

:)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I thought it sounded somehow more Official.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. These people are the ULTIMATE authority. They have over
20 books, all the size of War and Peace ...

http://www.bathroomreader.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slide to the left Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. Strangly
I saw something about this on TV a few years back. The CEO of some TP company said it was made to be "over" and thats they way it was designed to tear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Interesting...I didn't think it would make a difference "tear wise".
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. If you roll it, "under" puts the soft side out.
That another question, are you a buncher or a roller. But to me, the natural rolling motion is an 'over the top away from you" roll, so if you are facing the TP, if its hanging, "over," you get the back of the paper out in your roll, if its hanging "under," you get the front of the paper out.

You have noticed, I presume, that some papers have a good side and a bad side?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
30. Recommended (and over)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
31. Under is easier to tear.
And I'm not quite sure how the wall would pick up germs unless you're smearing dodo on your hand and then rubbing it against the wall. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Under, for tearing AND pulling.
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
54. LOL! Doodoo jokes!
:rofl:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benfea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
32. I can't believe people get worked up over this topic.
Look, as long as the toilet paper is there, who cares about the orientation? Jeesh!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Only godless Amurica-haters roll it under.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. UNDER!
:toast:
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Why do you hate Amurica???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strong Atheist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. You said it: because I'm godless...nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benfea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. Are you implying that there's something wrong with being godless?
Maybe you can go play with the conservatives at some freeper site if the company of atheists is intolerable to you. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Go back and re-read my post in a George W. Bush voice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ivan Sputnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
36. Just keep a roll on the back of the toilet
then you don't have worry about it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
37. All this talk of TP makes me think of an old joke.
How do cook toilet paper?
You brown it on one side!


Hey! I didn't say it was a good joke!:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Bwahahaha! That's awful!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. LOL Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
39. This entire thread is flamebait.
Mrs. G, you should know better....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #39
65. I should..shouldn't I?
I can't help what happens when I take off for the say. Things were going along swimmingly until then. ;) :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. UNDER so my cats can't unroll it.
They'll unroll all of it if I place it so that it roll over. Hillarious. They have loads of fun. x(

So ALWAYS have it roll under!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. My cat used to unroll TP to cover up her business in the cat box
which was right next to the toilet. It was very funny to watch, but she would use up 15 feet at a time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
46. Put it under just before you let your cat out to kill songbirds and
after you go to a public place to breastfeed and attend a Ralph Nader for President rally. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #46
66. ...while smoking.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
47. Over
I just think it looks better that way. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #47
67. Agreed! It gives the bathroom a finished look.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
u4ic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
49. Under!
I can never rip the dang thing off if it's over...I always end up with miles of it. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #49
68. I never noticed there was a difference there. I'll have to pay more
attention in the future. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
twenty2strings Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
51.  over but, I'm conflicted..
under actually shows the whole roll..how much is left, but it's easier to find the end if it's over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #51
69. And...no wall germs...
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
52. I am completely OCD about this -- it even bothers me at other...
people's houses when it is under--bah.

Then again, I also get mad when:

1) People leave dish sponges sitting IN the sink instead of on the EDGE of the sink.
2) People don't have bags in their bathroom wastebaskets.
3) People let dust collect on their dashboards.
4) People wear pants that are obviously too small and that otherwise innocuous little tiny bit of fat rolls over the edge (this is particular to very very skinny women--it's as if they don't think anything could possibly look unflattering?), and not because they can't afford to buy pants that fit.
5) Mismatched dishes (unless NONE of them match--that can be fun, but none of this 5 white plates, 3 plates with a floral pattern, 4 orange coffee mugs and one with Bugs Bunny on it, 6 different flatware patters, plastic take-out containers saved for makeshift Tupperware, etc...)

I may have a serious psychological problem...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. So are you saying you'd have a problem with my jelly jar glasses
in different sizes? ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. UNDER!
Often it keeps the roll from freely spinning and therefore spilling half the roll onto the floor.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #53
70. You just made me think of those bathroom deodorizer crystals that
used to come in toilet paper holders. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
55. Hey, lady
Where have you been? I haven't seen you around in ages?

Did you get my PM? I made my reservations to go to NY for the march -- wanna go?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #55
71. I've hit a snag with my health...I did get your PM and meant to reply
Look for it today. I'm sorry. My head's in the clouds these days. :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Briarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
56. Over!
Under is a commie terrorist plot to corrupt our bodily fluids!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #56
72. Thank you!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
57. I was the first to post this question on DU
I titled it something like "TP: Over or Under?"

And the text read "This is important". Which it is.

The overwhelming consensus, as it should be for all time, is OVER.

I think placing it under is Republican. I have felt this way since forever. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #57
73. Yes, but...every once in awhile the committee recommends that
we re poll...just to make sure that everyone is on the same page...or square... ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
59. Eek. See this is one of those things that makes me wonder...
...if I'm truly fit for polite society.


Because I didn't know there were people who cared about this until I was 29 years old and my boyfriend yelled at me over it. I'd really never heard of anyone even noticing before! I just wasn't brought up that way.


Regardless, we (different boyfriend) actually have no toilet paper holder in our current place. The roll sits on a little table with the magazines and the potpourri.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #59
74. Yes, you are...I am not.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
60. Under - WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA???
:shrug:

































:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #60
75. You're the Commie! Going against the majority vote like that!
I'm reporting you. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
62. Over...over OVER!!!!
I'm not even going to argue this with you un-American bastards!!!!! Freepers!!!! MORANS!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #62
76. No argument here!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
63. TP? Use a pine cone you pansy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #63
77. Well...there is a "who needs toilet paper option"...
:shrug: :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC