At what point should a DUer use alert?

[laheina]

To all you old-school DU users, another question on DU procedures:

I've read the rules, but in what situation would you use alert?

Have you ever used alert?

Personally, I've never even used ignore, but due to the nature of GD, and the seeming increase of FR troll incursions, what would be your limit? Just curious.

[southlandshari]

1. I don't get it

If you've read the rules, why not use the alert function to give a heads up to moderators about posts you think break those rules?

:shrug:


The mods are a pretty sharp bunch. If folks would just kick stuff their way rather than poking at suspected trolls or answering personal attacks in kind, I really think that the peace would be a lot easier to maintain around here.


:hi:

[nickgutierrez]

6. Yeah, what she said.

The rules exist for a reason - to preserve peace and sanity, and to encourage productive discussion on the message boards. If a post is in violation of these rules, alert on it.

:hi: (To both of you. I'm too lazy to put a second one there.)

[southlandshari]

10. And for that.....

:loveya:

[nickgutierrez]

13. I know.

Oh, right.

:loveya: too!

[southlandshari]

34. Did you just duck?

Thinking a brick was coming your way?

:rofl:






:hug:

[nickgutierrez]

54. How did you know?

:hide:

[laheina]

9. I'm sorry!

I have this tattle-tale complex. I think it has to do with how I grew up. If someone isn't doing something that could result in the immediate, physical harm of another person, I usually leave it alone. I almost never respond in kind, and when I do, I usually chalk it up to my having been over-sensitive or in a mood to begin with.

What I'm trying to do, is to find the line. Does that makes sense?

[southlandshari]

52. Don't be sorry!

I understand the feeling a lot of folks have about alerting as "tattling".

:pals:

I also understand that the folks I worked with in the mod forum day in and day out were a great cross section of the membership here. They are funny and intelligent people, not narrow minded hall monitors or heavy handed censors. When in doubt about something you see here, don't feel bad about hitting alert for their second opinion.

:D

[laheina]

64. Thank you!

I'm learning all sorts of stuff about the moderators today.

Interesting stuff :)

[khashka]

41. I used it once....

Against myself.


The usual reasons to use it.... well, we're a pretty fierce bunch. And while we're glad to have the mods, we can usually handle things on our own. But it never hurts when things get out of hand to hit alert and let the mods know. Hey, they can't read everything!

Hey, boys and girls, this is a community - we're all involved. And we have a duty to protect it if we need to. Sometimes that means getting the mods involved.


Breaking the rules - a little bit of heresy..... I don't mind breaking some of the rules.

But there are limits. I only call the mods in if someone is getting hurt. And I only did that once, to ask the mods to lock one of my threads - because I hurt someone unintentionally and wanted it stopped.

Khash.

[laheina]

51. I guess that I just always thought...

...that the Mods did read everything. Thinking about it, that seems kind of silly. :) I can't even get close, and even though there are more of them, that is still probably an unrealistic expectation.

You seem to have an objective way of looking at things. Not many people turn *themselves* in. That's kind of nifty. (And I don't mean that like the "tombstone me Skinner" incident of this morning. That was kind of like a train wreck.)

[trof]

2. When you get really, REALLY pissed.

:-)

[Maddy McCall]

4. This past week, I alerted with a message that said...

something like this:

"I'm about to go off on this person. Please do something before I lose my mind."

:D

[LostinVA]

69. I used it when someone called a woman a c*nt the other day

I personally don't think "bitch" has a place on DU... but the "c-word"? No way! We would never allow faggot or the n-word, so why that? It was deleted.

Getting frustrated and even angry with one another is one thing, but usually foul derogatory language is going over the line.

[Redstone]

70. They said WHAT? I can honestly say I've never used that word

in my life. If I can do that, there's no reason to trot it out on DU.

I mean.

Redstone

[LostinVA]

72. Yeah -- about the mother of his child -- he's not too thrilled

with being forced to pay child support. I believe it was "His c*nt of a mother." I was like, no he didn't!

A nasty, nasty word... but all of his posts were pretty nasty, too.

[Redstone]

74. Did he get the Granite Chiclet for that?

Redstone

[LostinVA]

75. I'm not sure -- I put him on ignore

[Random_Australian]

3. From a quasi-newbie DU'er... it's rare but usually very clear

I've never used ignore either, but when the post has 2 of these:

- Has little concern for human life ie. civil war may not be so bad cos'less yanks die
- Uses insults with/uses categorical imperative ie. "All you care about is your political agenda"
- TinfoilHat! Though not all tinfoilhat's are freepers, they can be very disruptive
- Use of personal insults

And Remember, the message is sent to a moderator, who will use their own judgement, so you don't have to be exactly correct. If you aren't justified the moderators won't delete, ipso facto.

[laheina]

16. I won't wear my tinfoil hat around you.

;) :tinfoilhat:

I'm more concerned with the insults. If they were thinly veiled, but were leveled at more people in a thread than just myself, then they would probably be being disruptive (OK to alert.) Right?

And that's a good point about the moderators. Thanks :hi:

[tinfoilinfor2005]

59. Hey, hey, hey!

No reason to insult my chapeau!

[arwalden]

5. When Another DUer Starts Making CREEPY Advances To Another DUer?

You know... those unwanted perverted sexual innuendo and double entendres... trying to be mature and suave and sexy, but actually coming off like a juvenile and a half-wit. Or... those uncomfortably inappropriate sexual "compliments" to another DUer. Or... when someone tries to use the lounge as a pick-up chat room and then acts as though he (or she) is perfectly entitled to do so.

[laheina]

19. Isn't that what people do in the lounge?

I don't know enough about other people's relationships to each-other yet to get involved in their stuff. Unless you happen to have a copy of that "Lounge Relationship Chart." I could use that. ;)

Periodically, I'll find out something new about DU goings on, and I'll do one of these:

[ghostsofgiants]

7. If I see something that is blatantly non-progressive, I'll alert.

I think I've only used it twice so far.

[laheina]

21. Was one of those times...

...the "Marine vs. the victims of the atomic bomb" guy?

I'm just trying to figure out what you mean by "blatantly non-progressive." Do you mean obvious Freeptard troll bait kind of stuff?

[ghostsofgiants]

24. Yeah...

And another time some guy said that racism was perfectly acceptable as a means to stop corporations from outsourcing. I have no set criteria, but if it just strikes me as a really fucked up thing for a progressive to say, and it's in a completely serious context, then I'll probably alert.

[laheina]

39. Good call

Racism and murder are always bad. :hi:

[ghostsofgiants]

40. I like to think so, haha.

:hi:

[TroubleMan]

8. In 3 years, never used ignore, and only used alert twice.

I will never use the ignore function, but I might hit alert on some freepers a few more times.

[laheina]

22. So it's the disruptive freepers that you use alert for? nt

[TroubleMan]

44. I used it once on a guy really disruptive a long time ago.

I forgot for what.


The other time was from one of those people that pop up everytime mentions Chavez, that have a less than 20 post count, and constantly bash Chavez.

I don't bother anymore. I'm usually not quick enough on the draw.

[laheina]

53. I'm not fast enough either.

I said somewhere else in this thread, that usually, my only clue that a naughty freeper has been around is the trail of deleted messages. :)

[Radical Activist]

11. I use it when someone is personally insulting and attacking someone

in a very personal way. There's no reason or excuse for that on this board. Otherwise, I don't care what people write.

[laheina]

28. You seem like a good guy.

I'm gonna ask your opinion on this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2506311&mesg_id=2507164

My post is toward the bottom. I really don't care about what was said to or about me, but considering that a few of the people involved haven't been posting for very long, I would hate to think that they were having fun at our expense. That just makes GD an unfun place to be, and that kind of ruins it for everybody. Am I taking stuff too personally?

[Radical Activist]

32. I don't know

GD can get ugly. I doubt that will change unless the mods start banning people left and right. I'm not sure the person who responded to you understood your point, and I'm not sure I understand the point of post 22 either. At some point you have to accept that the opinions of strangers on the internet who say nasty things to you really don't matter at all.

[laheina]

55. Yeah.

I didn't see the response until today, and my fist thought was "someone has a screw loose!" But he was also only at 20 or 30 posts last night. Now he's up at 100. I would hate to think that he's been acting that way all day. Although, if he has been, someone has probably gotten to him by now.

That event just got me to thinking about how and when someone really *does* need to be brought to the attention of the Mods. Maybe it's just an odd, speculative question?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

78. Hey laheina, I read this... your "instincts" are completely right. The OP

on that thread speaks for itself, the "lack of disclosure" part, motives are clear...

The rest of the obvious "pattern" is the collection of other low posters piling on in support.

None of this necessarily violates any DU rule, but it is a very clear pattern that you see on many, er, similar threads. Often you'll see a whole group of folks who post 5 times a year all showing up at the same time all of a sudden to pile on a thread like this. No rules violated.

It's useful sometimes to note who these folks are so you can put future posts and threads of theirs "in context" when evaluating them.

If you feel a given post or thread comes up very close to breaking a rule, especially if you see a pattern of this with someone, I think it's fair to alert with a message explaining the pattern to let the moderators know. They are the arbiters of the rules, so if they think it's fine, they'll let it go, or they may note it for reference, or act.

[Hugin]

12. From a personal perspective...

I typically ignore inflammatory threads... It's that darn First Amendment thingie.

On those rare occasions I do an Alert it's an obvious intentional disruption or
an attack on me personally which the other party shows no intention of letting
go of...

A few thoughts.

[Shine]

14. I've never used it. Truthfully, I forget that option is there. heheheh.

I've only been here about 6 mos., though, so I'm still a relative newbie.

The mods are great here and generally really on top of what's happening. :thumbsup:

I give many kudos to the mods. :applause:

[Hugin]

17. It was semi-bad when I first was here... There were lots of disruptors.

It's pretty obvious.

It has declined and will probably pick up again once the
midterms are in full swing.

The mods have really done a great job!

[Arkansas Granny]

26. I think you are right about the disruptors moving in again. I have

noticed a few over the last couple of weeks that I thought were disruptors. Their posts just had a different "flavor" to them that didn't sound quite right and most of them had a very low count. I guess some people aren't happy unless they are stirring up trouble.

[laheina]

37. Exactly.

Maybe we should trust our instincts, and throw them to the Mods then?

I don't understand the whole intrigue bit. I do go over to Free Republic sometimes, just to lurk and read what they're saying about certain topics. I would never post though. The responses would definitely be unreasonable--even if they didn't delete differing viewpoints as fast as they were posted. :shrug: No point in such futility.

[Arkansas Granny]

46. Some of the disruptors outted themselves this week and left.

Some of them were newbies, but some of them had high post counts. I'll have to admit I have a fascination with the freepers, but I just lurk, mostly to see how in the world they justify some of their opinions.

[Hugin]

49. They can't justify them...

That's why they're so intent on disrupting our opinions.

Because we can.

See my post down a couple for a more detailed description.

[laheina]

56. And do you understand their justifications?

Most of them elude me. :shrug:

But I also have an interest in observing them. I just try not to do it too much. It's a little depressing. :D

[Arkansas Granny]

71. No, I don't understand their justifications. I started lurking over

there just before the 2004 elections because I wanted to see what their take was on the issues. I just couldn't imagine anyone still supporting Bush and his regime. Since then, it seems like most of the moderates have either left or are remaining silent. The whole tone over there has gotten kind of desperate and decidedly nasty.

[Shine]

27. Yeah, I suppose it is fairly obvious, when one sees it.

I've thought more about it and I would most likely hit the alert button if anybody was being personally attacked, that is, beyond just the normal, day-to-day disagreement over opinion.

That shit wouldn't fly with me.

And I agree, the mods are awesome here.

I'm sure you're probably right about the disruptors increasing at the midterms.
:hi:

[laheina]

35. Yes!

The mods are so great that I usually only see the trail of deleted messages. I always miss the good stuff. ;)

But I can be clueless too. My usually response to someone that is being a meanie is to ignore them and think that their having a bad day--unless I'm having a bad day too. In that case I can be a meanie right back. :)

[Hugin]

38. Being a meanie back is allowed.

To a certain extent, you can usually tell play from the real meanies.

I've heard many times the right wingers admit if the more progressive
people were allowed to get their message out... They'd lose every time.

They admit it *themselves*!

How they counter this is by never, never allowing a coherent thought
get through from the progressives.

If you don't believe me... Look at any large corporate owned media outlet.

There is only silence or gibberish from the left. Even though I know I've
heard many eloquent ideas when I'm around the progressives and I check
alternative media sources.

Not sure what to do about it... But, the attempts to scramble the message
are carried right here to DU and in my more paranoid moments I suspect causing
the mods to deal with Alerts instead of getting out a coherent message is
part of the program.

[laheina]

47. No--you're right on.

First of all, the RW uses textbook marketing techniques to carry their talking points. Then they use gorilla tactics to shut down the opposition. Some will tell you that the Left's inclusion of many viewpoints is the problem, but sometimes I think that our inability to build consensus has help.

If you stop to think how many trolls get tomb-stoned right off, it is only reasonable that there are others that are more subtle. Shoot! Look at silverhair. He wasn't very subtle, but he was around he for years.

Since I already have my :tinfoilhat: out, here's one for you :tinfoilhat:. ;)

[Hugin]

50. Awe... Thank you!

It fits!

:tinfoilhat:

[laheina]

57. :) nt

[laheina]

29. I didn't think that you were here before.

But I do pop in and out. :)

You have far outstripped me in the posting department, though. :hi:

[Shine]

31. Yeah, guess I need to get a life. LOL!

:hi:

Good thing I'm a fast typist.

[laheina]

48. Ah, well.

If you find a life, then you can tell me how. ;)

And my typing is getting fantastic. :)

[bridgit]

15. hey there, sacto!!

i don't use ignore, and i've only hit alert i think 3 times in almost 9,600 posts...it's mostly cool here :hi: but i do hear you talking about any possible incursions x(

[uppityperson]

18. I've alerted on "skirters" (and this is my 9000 post!)

ones that skirt the edges, either are truly trying to figure things out or almost breaking the rules but not quite, and usually only after searching out other threads by the person and seeing a pattern. I usually write something to the mods about why I am alerting too.

Stuff like "I love George Bush and you all can kiss my ass" or "you are stocking the president" get an immediate alert, unless it is fun and games.

Edited to add I just checked and this is post 9000 in 1 1/2 yrs. Thanks all for being here, thanks mods for maintaining.

[Hugin]

42. Congrats!

Wow! You're only a thousand away from 10 grand!

:toast:

[laheina]

58. You are another one!

You came right before me and you've dusted me on the post count. :P

Looking for a pattern is a great idea! That'll keep me from indiscriminately alerting on people, and if I'm wrong, maybe I'll find someone that I want to lounge stalk. :) Double duty! (jk)

[dbt]

20. Any time the Skep Ticks step in to "save" you from your delusions.

And it never does the least bit of good. The best I can get back is "use the Ignore feature."

:freak:
dbt
Remember New Orleans

[laheina]

60. I've seen a few that

keep claiming to be "confused." Yet seem to keep asking questions, about some issue or other, that sound like RW talking points. I usually stay away from those. They seem to be flame wars waiting to happen. :shrug:

Plus, I have a :tinfoilhat: to save me from my delusions. ;) Isn't that what those are for? :)

[SOteric]

23. At any point one observes the rules being violated, or

community standards being breach, or at any time one suspects a fellow poster of not being quite what they appear.

With all due respect, you've got to get over this whole 'tattletale' thing.

This isn't like a bunch of rival siblings carrying their grievances to Mum & Dad. It's more like living in a large community. You're not going to let your neighbours be abusive to each other, you wouldn't just let the folks next door carry on patently illegal activities and say to yourself "ho hum...., First Ammendment..., la de dah...., live and let live."

If you observe a poster being personally abusive, if you read bigoted comments, if you watch an otherwise productive thread devolve into toddleresque poo-flinging contests where all useful discussion has evaporated...hit alert. A committee of moderators will be better able to evaluate what is going on and take action. It's not a unilateral 'Wrath of Mod' thing, an intelligent group of individuals with access to much more information on a poster than you and I, will evaluate the situation and come to a decision on whether to act and in what way to act if so.

Sure, I suppose there are always a few folks who'll hit alert everytime they disagree with someone, but in my experience that's pretty rare. Most of those who hit alert are doing so because they genuinely feel rules are being violated to the detriment of civil discussion and the healthy expressions of the community.

[Hugin]

25. "toddleresque poo-flinging contests"

I watch those regularly... On Fox News.

[BlueIris]

43. Pretty much what you posted.

And I'm not ashamed to say that I use alert a lot. Not all the time, (as in, not every day...anymore) and not in cases in which I've been told that while something is technically against the rules, it won't warrant the message being deleted or an offensive poster being banned. But we do have a lot of people on this site who don't read the rules--at all--and don't appear to have much of a concept of what civilized posting is all about.

[laheina]

61. Thank you.

All good points, and your perspective on the mods is very helpful.

It seems that I also need to get over my quasi-fear/awe of the nebulous moderators. It helps to have insights into how their perform their duties, because really, I had little idea before today.

Btw, I know that some of my hang-ups are silly, but the first step is admitting it. Then you can ask for perspective.

Thank you for helping me with the perspective part. :hi:

[AngryAmish]

30. Whenever I get on a thread!

[Hugin]

33. Ooo... I'm gonna have to alert on this!

Maybe...

[In_The_Wind]

36. Anytime they feel like there is a valid reason as per the rules.

Personally I have done less than a half a dozen alerts on threads or post.

[laheina]

63. Goodness, you're a prodigious poster!

And it seems to me that someone would have to *try* to have issues with you. That is just from my limited experience, of course, but your experience is helpful.

Thank you form a relative newbie! :hi:

[In_The_Wind]

65. And ~ you have been here a month longer than I have.

I'll take what you've said as a complement.
However I do get into a battle of words occasionally which usually works out alright in the end.



:hi:

[GalleryGod]

45. I Alert all the time...it's like "icing the puck" to me. Of Course -

I'm still hoping for "Hide this Entire Frickin' Page" option some day...
that's it and that's that.

[laheina]

62. GalleryGod,

I'm from California, and the NHL rulebook is a little confusing when you are clueless about hockey. Can you explain your analogy to me?

[MrSlayer]

66. I never use it.

It's more fun to keep the trolls around.

[laheina]

67. How so?

Are you one who likes to live dangerously?

[MrSlayer]

68. I don't consider their words dangerous.

I enjoy a little give and take with the Freepers occasionally, it's fun to expose them as the idiots they are. Plus it gives me a chance to use personal attacks without repercussions, which you can't normally do here.

[ContraBass Black]

73. Is it bad manners to alert and post "IBTL!" in the same thread?

:shrug:

[tjwmason]

76. I've only used it once.

that was a blatent piece of racism which had been left alone for quite a while.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. Only on obvious freeper trolls.

But I've never, and don't plan to, use the Alert button on posts with hugely differing or unpopular opinions or anything like that.