So, Luther Vandross was gay, and I'm apparently the last to know...

[Beware the Beast Man]

:shrug:

Can anyone recommend a good repair shop? I think my gaydar is broken...

[BikeWriter]

1. No, you were like the second to the last to know. He is still a favorite..

of mine.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

10. Even though he's GAY!?!?!?!

;)

[Misunderestimator]

23. Still your favorite? Would his being gay change that for someone?

[khashka]

28. I doubt it would change Bikewriter's opinion.

He's very gay friendly. Hell, he let's me flirt with him!


I see what you are saying though. A number of people I know were surprised. But were cool with it. Pity he didn't make an issue of it....people who are admired can do a lot. Just by being honest. If you admire someone gay, you start looking at gay and lesbian people differently - you start seeing the good they can do and what they have to offer...


Khash.

[Misunderestimator]

29. Oh I know... just saying "still" seems to sets him apart for being gay.

Nothing against Bikewriter at all... was just asking why he put it that way particularly.

Now if only Oprah would come out (not to mention Jodie Foster). :)

[khashka]

30. Yeah....

Jodie and Oprah...... sigh!

Come on, girls, "dyke" ain't that hard to say!

Hey, Ellen has made a very lucrative career out of it. Not to mention Melissa! I love her quote. "My first albums didn't sell many copies. When I came out, I went platinum!"


So how's the kitten? (Khash highjacks the thread). She says she'd rather have a puppy. We have to convince her to love kittens :)


Khash.

[Misunderestimator]

31. The kitten is fabulous!

Asleep on a box in front of the window in my office right now. Very content and very cute. :) And he's already won her heart and made her a kitten person, so I think our work is done :D

[progmom]

34. Oh I love the cat...he just makes me sneeze

...and I already have a dog (and the dog makes MisU sneeze, so it's all balanced :))

[arwalden]

39. Yeah... That Phrasing ("Still") Was Awkward And Troubling To Me Too.

[khashka]

51. Do I have to come to his defence?

All he was saying was that like a lot of people he didn't know the guy was gay. Hell, I didn't either!. And it didn't change anything.


Sometimes we can be a little defensive (for good reason)... but sometimes we jump at the least sign of homophobia. I don't think BW intended anything even remotely homophobic.


Sorry, arwalden, I don't mean to jump on you. Why can't we actually have a conversation that isn' t a fight? :)

Khash.

[arwalden]

58. What I Said Was...

... "that phrasing ("still") was awkward and troubling to me too". And it was!

<< I don't think BW intended anything even remotely homophobic.>>

I made no accusations, and called no names. Certainly it was a simple matter of a poor choice of words. And as I pointed out, that particular choice and order of words was troubling.

Even though I certainly realize that BW didn't mean any harm in using those words, they are still words that many people use to cleverly disguise their underlying bigotry. They are the code-words of stealth bigots. Words that suggest that someone's homosexuality is undesirable or a negative thing... something to be overcome, or hidden.

<< Why can't we actually have a conversation that isn't a fight? >>

Hmmm. I was unaware that this was the case.

[Misunderestimator]

65. Khashka... it was a question... and saying "still" in this context...

does indicate that someone should be set apart for being gay. No one is accusing anyone of homophobia. I don't know why you jump to that conclusion.

[khashka]

75. I'm sorry, sweetheart

But a lot of people seemed to take offense at BW's words. I can see why, but it's unwarranted.


BW: I like him still
Then everyone jumps on him.

Come on, this whole argument is about BW's choice of words. And why would it even be an issue if people didn't see it as homophobiic. It's not!


Go back and read your own words, sweet woman. This message: "set apart for being gay" "but no one is accusing anyone of homophobia"... well why not? If he hates gays and lesbians, then say say so.



It's not true.

Khash.

[Misunderestimator]

79. WTF?

That's just asking why he used that choice of words. And it is not accusing him of being homophobic. People use words all the time without being aware of how they are taken. I have every right as a gay person to question why he used them.

How you can accuse ME of calling him homophobic... that's just astounding. I am NOT. And his use of "still" is not homophobic by itself either. It's just separatism. Don't you see that? Are you seriously saying that you think I'm calling him homophobic? I REALLY don't understand how you got from A to B there, Khash. Peace.

(On edit... "A lot of people" took offense? Who, me and Allen? A lot? Offense? No... I'm simply trying to point out, as is Allen, that that choice of words is used by others to separate gays as something different... pretty much saying that he still likes him, even though he's gay. I just think it's odd. I also think that BW is capable of answering my question himself. Not sure why you feel the need to defend him against a question.)

[arwalden]

83. Oh... Horse Shit!

<< But a lot of people seemed to take offense at BW's words. >>

Quantify "a-lot". Two? Three?

<< I can see why, but it's unwarranted. >>

That makes no sense at all. If you can see why, then you'd know why the concern IS warranted.

<< Come on, this whole argument is about BW's choice of words. And why would it even be an issue if people didn't see it as homophobiic. It's not! >>

Yes it is. I'm absolutely astounded that you're trying to tell me that it's not something that causes you concern.

<< This message: "set apart for being gay" "but no one is accusing anyone of homophobia"... well why not?

Here's the point. Even though it may not have been BW's intent to say something that is so easily be seen as bigoted... and even though the bigoted-sounding words SURELY do not reflect his own feelings... THE FACT REMAINS that that choice of words comes across as portraying homosexuality as something that's negative.

You're getting entirely too wrapped up in defending someone who is so well-known at DU that it's clear to everyone that BW didn't MEAN it the way it sounds.

In fact, you're so wrapped-up in it, you've got blinders on. You're so focused on one thing, to the exclusion of even acknowledging that "a-lot" (?) of people are justifiably concerned enough to point out how little words are used to MARGINALIZE gays and lesbians.


<< If he hates gays and lesbians, then say say so.>>

Nobody has said that. Clearly you're missing the point. Take off the blinders and look at the bigger picture.


<< It's not true. >>

What's not true? (What "it" are you referring to?)

If you're saying that BW is NOT stealth bigot... then I'd agree with you. --- If you're saying that the unfortunate choice of words were not cause for concern, then we definitely have a problem.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

45. Okay, dumb question

but I thought Oprah had a boyfriend. Fill me in.

[khashka]

50. OK here's the gossip

Oprah and Steadman have been together for damn near forever. But the relationship just goes nowhere. Lots and lots of nowhere. And she seems to prefer her female friends. And has been friendly to lesbians.

So the gossip started:

1) Oprah is really a lesbian but won't come out.
2) Oprah and Steadman are in rather kinky S/m relationship and the way things are, are exactly what she wants.
3) She loves him, but all he cares about is her money.

Like I said, gossip. Some of it ugly. Oprah is an incredibly rich and popular person. No, she's an incredibly rich black woman. So she's an easy target. But not all the gossip is malicious. Some of us just look at her situation and life and start wondering....

Personally, I'm going with option 2. :)


Khash.

[Misunderestimator]

63. And I am going with Option 1 :)

But you're right... it's just gossip... only she knows the truth. I choose the entirely non-malicious gossip.

[yvr girl]

2. I didn't know

But my parents didn't opt for gaydar when they were choosing option for their baby girl.

[BikeWriter]

3. No shit, Dear, nor did mine. Luther Vandross was a classic!

[Beware the Beast Man]

4. I think you may be assuming that I find that wrong or something.

I don't; it's just something I never picked up on. I heard something about it today and never put 2 and 2 together.

Little footnote: the local news called it some shocking revelation about his "lifestyle." I hate that word. :eyes:

[BikeWriter]

5. No, not at all, Pard. I love the man's art.

[Beware the Beast Man]

7. And the man's appetite was no slouch, either.

:)

http://www.snopes.com/food/origins/luther.asp

yeah, he probably never ate a hamburger on a donut bun, but we can dream, can't we?

[LSdemocrat]

11. You can buy a donut burger soon

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/8653A44361F37CAD8625712E001C9904?OpenDocument

" "Baseball's Best Burger" is a hamburger topped with cheddar cheese and two strips of bacon, served between two halves of a Krispy Kreme glazed doughnut. The team plans to introduce the burger at a media event at the stadium Monday. The official debut is the team's home opener May 31.

In this case, the price of indulgence will be $4.50.

Tony Funderburg, the Grizzlies' general manager, says he has had about 10 of the doughnut burgers and swears that they're great. "The sharp cheddar cheese and the sweetness of the doughnut just really go well together," Funderburg said. "That's what really makes it work. If you did it without cheese, I'm not sure it would be that good."

Believe it or not, the burger has something of a storied - some might say mythic - history. It is sometimes called the "Luther Burger" after singer Luther Vandross, who told Entertainment Weekly magazine in 1993 that he came up with the idea one night when he cooked a bacon cheeseburger as a midnight snack. Vandross realized that he was out of buns, so he improvised with a pair of glazed doughnuts."

[BikeWriter]

13. ROFLOL! The myth sounds good, anyway.

[KitchenWitch]

6. I am blessed with almost impeccable gaydar

It is truly a gift and a curse.

[ThomCat]

42. I have no gaydar.

It's caused no end of trouble. :(

I'm always falling for straight guys, and some of them get rather upset when you try to flirt.

[khashka]

53. Quick lesson for kittenboy...

Although men tend to make eye contact, straight guys will break it fairly quickly. Gay guys, if even remotely interested, will maintain eye contact at all costs.

It's true!

But evangelists and Mormons throw me off. They do it too..... which leads to some rather awkward situations :)

Khash.

[ThomCat]

54. Many of those Mormon guys are cute.

There's something about clean-cut pretty boys dressed up all clean and neat. :9

Thank you for the lesson. I really do appreciate it. :7

[khashka]

56. Mormons drive me crazy......

Clean cut pretty boys in my apt.

Ya wanna blow job?

Ummmmm no. You wanna copy of the New Testament?

Um, no. I was hoping for the blow job option.


But they ain't all cute. Yesterday I met a , well let's be honest, obese and ugly Mormon. Never mind strange men offering strange sex, he would have a hard time finding a woman who was interested. I felt so sorry for him cuz he was a really really nice guy.


Khash.

[ThomCat]

57. I promise that if I ever come to visit

I will be a clean cut pretty boy. And then we'll discuss what what you want. :9

[khashka]

77. If you ever come to visit

You'll take your pants off, then we'll talk.


I actually did that with an FBI agent..... it's a miracle Khash ain't in jail. G-man in jockey shorts - "I have to keep my gun with me at all times" Hah! If he had any idea what I was gonna do with that gun.....


Khash.

[ThomCat]

78. Did I mention that I'm a nudist

and that I used to model for art students? :P The problem would be keeping my clothes on.

That FBI story sounds like one I want to hear more about. :)

[tigereye]

59. "But evangelists and Mormons throw me off."

:rofl:

that is funny in several ways, Khash....

[khashka]

66. Yeah, yeah yeah....

I'm beginning to realize that my purpose in this life is be humourous to other people.

Damn! I must have been really bad in my last life if karma thinks "Khash should be a clown".

I try to be serious and intellectual, but it just ain't working!

Damn that karma!


Khash

[tigereye]

74. yeah, let's hear some discourse on philosophers, Khash

I suspect you know about those, too. Actually, I do think that discussion of existential phenomenology is very sexy! I'm probably the only one in the country that does! :D

[khashka]

76. Philosophers make me violent

I listen but it makes no sense.


Actually my experience is not good. I usually end up punching philosophers. "Philosophy this you over educated bastard!" I reccomend it, quite calming. :)


And it get's you dates.....


:)



Khash,

[tigereye]

84. huh I used to be quite attached to guys

who quoted Lacan and his ilk. It's still a hoot to listen to. Weird aphrodisiac, no?

Punching out academic philosophers gets you dates? Well, that probably makes sense in the odd meta world that many of those folks inhabit. That's kind of a fun image, actually. :D

[TallahasseeGrannie]

52. Okay, KW

is GWB gay? How about Tom Cruise? I have no gaydar.

Well, just a little. I've always thought Eddie Murphy was gay. But I could be wrong.

[khashka]

55. Let me be the expert

Can't really trust KW's gaydar, she's a straight girl after all!

GWB - Goddess, let us hope not! There are some people the straight community can keep. No gay vibes off him, what I get is "drunk". Look at how he acts and talks.

Tom Cruise - gay, gay, gay. And that's not wishful thinking either. I can't stand him. I'd rather slit my wrists than sleep with him. But he doesn't act like most straight men. Get a great girl and you wanna brag. Sure. But Tom goes too far... It just seems wrong....


Eddie Murphy, probably not gay. Although the thing with the transvestite prostitute has left people wondering. Not gay. Straight but kinky. Maybe bisexual, but apart from the one incident, I doubt he's ever acted on it.


Khash.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

64. Thanks for the insight

I find it endlessly fascinating, this whole gender/sexuality thing. Keeps life interesting.

I had read about GWB giving bj's in college, but that was Kitty Kelly and she's pretty yellow.

[khashka]

71. If gender/sexuality interests you....

read Kate Bornstein's Gender Outlaw. A man who became a woman. It's very chatty and friendly, but she discusses the difference between being percieved as male or female. She brought home to me how much male privilege (or the lack of it) impacts our lives.



Oh yes, thank you very much for that image of W giving blowjobs to his frat buddies. I could have lived my entire life without that! Ick


Khash.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

73. Thanks for the tip

I'll look on Amazon. I read a simlar situation once and can't remember the name of the book. The protagonist was named "Jenny." The most intriguing part of THAT book was when she talked about what estrogen had done to him (at the time) emotionally.

Very revealing.

[KitchenWitch]

82. I have doubts as to whether GWB is human

Tom Cruise is gay

Not entirely sure of Eddie Murphy.

[begin_within]

8. His song "A Brand New Day (Everybody Rejoice)" from The Wiz is a classic!

[politicat]

9. You're not last to know...

cuz you told me.

I think I'm going to lose my bisexual's license now.... :eyes:

[Mojambo]

12. I'm shocked. n/t

[LSK]

14. now Im the last to know

The next person to reply will take that title from me thou.

[xchrom]

15. i'm surprised at the people who DIDN'T know.

what part of MY 'dar is broken?

[donheld]

16. If gaydar isn't tuned to the right frequency

It doesn't pick up. Sometimes, as I confess, with people like luther I never concidered one way or the other.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

17. You would be second-to-last

I had no idea

[LostinVA]

18. WTF?????? How did I miss this one???

And, I have excellent gaydar!!!

[Clintmax]

19. I had no idea either.

Never even thought of him like that. Youre not alone, obviously.

[blondeatlast]

20. Now I'm the last to know! How much do I care?--zip, zilch, nada.

Talent is a talent is a talent.

[meegbear]

21. I'm one of the boys and I didn't know myself ...

you live, you learn I guess.

[Frank Cannon]

22. I hadn't the foggiest notion he was

I guess that makes me the last to know now.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. I had no idea.

Link?

[supernova]

25. Well. now I'm the last to know

Go figure.

There are certain people, frankly their sexuality isn't interesting to me, like LV, so I just never thought about it, one way or another.

But he was a great singer. I didn't go out of my way to listen to him, but I didn't turn him off if I heard a song of his on the radio.

[kwassa]

26. Knew he was gay twenty years ago!

It wasn't much of a secret.

Did you know that he worked as a backup singer for David Bowie in his early days?

[Beware the Beast Man]

27. Didn't he sing on "Young Americans"?

Bowie also gave Stevie Ray Vaughan his big break, on "Let's Dance."

and yes, from the blogs and web pages I browsed, this was apparently no big secret among most circles. I feel so out of touch! :cry:

[LynneSin]

32. Holy bat crap - he's gay!!

You were not the last to know - I just found out now!

[Blue_Tires]

33. i didn't know

is this true? or just a joke?

[Beware the Beast Man]

35. From the gay blogs and news pages I have read recently,

it's pretty well understood.

His sexuality to me was irrelevant in terms to his talent as a performer, but I just never made the connection.

[MissMillie]

36. I didn't know either

but to tell you the truth, I very rarely turn on my gaydar. I just don't need to know.

[hippiechick]

37. You seriously didn't suspect?

:wow: :shrug: Not that it mattered, but I've thought it since about 1986, when I first 'discovered' Luther's music ...

[bigwillq]

38. I didn't know that.

Seriously, I didn't.

[mvd]

40. Neither did I, but it makes no difference

His talent is what he should be remembered by.

[bigwillq]

41. Exactly (nt)

[Momgonepostal]

43. I didn't know, but never stopped to ponder his sexuality

[TallahasseeGrannie]

44. No, you weren't the last to know

because I didn't know until I read your post. But it hasn't actually been a burning question in my mind, either.

[auntAgonist]

46. Not to sound snarky or anything .. but ..

this is important because? ...


I love Luther Vandross, I miss him.

aA

[Beware the Beast Man]

48. No, it's not important, and I'm sorry I ever fucking posted it.

It was just a rumination.

[auntAgonist]

49. don't be sorry ..

Like I said I didn't mean to sound snarky, it was just one of those questions that made me shrug and wonder.

I enjoy your posts.

:hi:

[no name no slogan]

47. Yeah right, big Luther's gay

who next, Liberache?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

68. LOL!

:spray:

[tigereye]

60. maybe it's not a big deal, either way around

I thought everybody knew that, though. ;)

[progmom]

61. I love that most of the crooners whose music sets the mood...

...like Luther, Johnny Mathis, and Barry Manilow...are gay. :D

[Beware the Beast Man]

62. ... and Darby Crash.

:P

[WritingIsMyReligion]

69. Mathis gay?

Again, I had no idea....Though I could have told you that Barry Manilow was. ;)

[Left Is Write]

89. I thought Barry Manilow was asexual.

[no name no slogan]

72. Johnny Mathis is gay, too? Riiiiight....

who next, the Pet Shop Boys?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

67. No, not the last...I apparently am.

I had no idea....

:shrug:

:D

[graywarrior]

70. Someone kept all of us out of the loop.

Last time I talked with him he never mentioned it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

80. News to me. But I've never had a reliable gaydar.

[arwalden]

86. Your Gaydar Must Be A Kenmore... Have You Tried The New Amana Gaydar?

:hi:

[Left Is Write]

88. I need an Amana Gaydar Guage.

[arwalden]

90. You Need Amana? I Thought You Were Already Involved With Someone.

:rofl: :hi:

[Left Is Write]

91. And the yuks keep coming!

:rofl:

[ProfessorGAC]

81. I Don't Need Gaydar!

I couldn't care less who Luther sleeps with. I have no reason to know, and no reason to even care. So, if my gaydar is broken, i can leave it unrepaired.
The Professor

[MrScorpio]

85. I figured it out a decade ago

But it was Luther, just as cool either way

[Left Is Write]

87. Mine must be too. I had no idea.

[Kat45]

92. Now I'M the last to know.

Had no idea until I read your post; and I didn't see it until all those ahead of me on the thread had already seen it.