Celebrity Scientology

[Giant Robot]

So by now we all have heard about Isaac Hayes leaving South Park, and according to one of its creators, it was because of South Park ripping on Scientology. What I am curious about is why do so many celebrities get into Scientology and stay so die hard in it?

From Tom Cruise to John Travolta to Jenna Elfman to Isaac Hayes. What is it with this religion and what hold do they have on these people? Given an objective eye, any religion can sound goofy, but Scientology? C'mon it was created by a bad sci fi writer. And from what I have heard, this sounds almost goofiest of them all. Yet these people cling to it like I can scarcely understand.

So there you have it lounge. Why are the celebrities going to Scientology like moths to a flame?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. I heard something about how they help struggling actors in LA

I don't know how true that is, but I hear they've helped feed and provide contacts to actors trying to get their feet wet.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

13. They do drug rehab through a front called "Narconon"

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/

(That's how they got Kirstie Alley & Juliette Lewis amongst others.)

[Shakespeare]

14. Juliette Lewis was raised in the "church."

Her dad, actor Geoffrey Lewis, is a longtime scientologist.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

18. Thanks for the correction

[Giant Robot]

15. Oh so glad to hear that!

Good to see that they don't take advantage of people when they are at just about the most vulnerable spot imagined.

:sarcasm:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. Just like the Christian missionaries.

[SmileyBoy]

2. They give them a shitload of money to join.

But the normal people... They have to spend upwards of $400,000 to get completely "clear" and reach OT9.:eyes:

[ET Awful]

10. I don't think so. One of the primary tenets of Scientology is that they

don't pay anything to anyone, they only take money in.

The only thing celebrities get is free "services" which would cost the average schmuck on the street hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I've never heard of them paying anyone anything (including people who have won lawsuits against them such as Lawrence Wollersheim who they didn't pay for 22 years after he won a suit against them).

[Shakespeare]

3. My take on it.

And this opinion is shared by a journalist friend of mine who has done serious investigative work into $cientology in LA, btw. Here's a link to one of the stories he's done on the cult (the title says "essay," but it's a story reprinted from the now-defunct Spy magazine):

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/buy-a-bridge.htm

Many, many actors--especially those just trying to break into the business--are some of the most insecure, impressionable people on earth. Apologies to any actors on DU, but it's true. The "church" appeals to them with their "fixit" faux psychology (dianetics), and, like all other cults, constantly flatters and reassures new converts to keep them sucked in. They also get the newbies to 'fess up their deep, dark secrets, which are then used as leverage to keep them in the cult. So, it's a combination of brainwashing and blackmail. I used to live in Hollywood, and their "recruiters" are EVERYWHERE. They have these innocent-sounding seminars regularly geared toward helping new actors break into the biz (I used to get the flyers in our apt. building mailbox almost weekly), and they have countless storefront offices all over the city (and then there's the big "celebrity center" on Sunset Blvd., on the eastern edge of Hollywood).

[ET Awful]

8. I think you pretty much nailed it.

Of course once they nab those celebrities, they have their big-ass celebrity center and all that crap in Hollywood which exists solely for the purpose of roping in new marks based on celebrity appeal.

[Fenris]

4. 1. If you're high profile and you are open about your Scientology

You basically get your auditing for free, when poor saps who join end up taking out a second mortgage so they can get to OT III and pass the "Wall of Fire" or whatever it's called. What's better then achieving "spiritual enlightenment" for free?

2. In the case of Tom Cruise, the world's most famous Scientologist, he was introduced to it by former lover Mimi Rogers. Jenna Elfman (she of the horrendous "Dharma and Greg") was introduced to it through her husband Bodhi Elfman.

3. People in the public eye tend to develop mental anguish over their fame, due to any number of factors, including lack of privacy. Scientology offers an alternative to therapy and psychiatry, albeit one based upon brainwashing.

[Giant Robot]

6. I guess I still don't get it

These are people with wealth and privilege, so why would they chose this just because it is free? And like I said, it just sounds pretty wacky to begin with.

I can grasp the fact that it is in some ways brainwashing, but still why chose this? Why not Catholicism or Buddhism or any other more traditional source of spirituality? They keep going back, even before the brainwashing sets in, and there has to be some reasons for that.

I sincerely doubt the celebs are being paid for this. Yes they are worth much for publicity and recruitment, but these are the people with the money to being with, so they can pay, and pay big.

Just confused and wondering today as a distraction from my real life.

[Shakespeare]

7. But most of them join BEFORE they have wealth and privilege.

And once they're in, they're pretty much stuck. Scientology makes their lives a living hell if they attempt to split with the church later.

See my previous post about how they pander to the insecurity of young, inexperienced actors.

[Giant Robot]

11. Loved the article from your friend

Nicely done. I guess that helps me understand if they are gathered up before they get rich and famous. That makes them easy, and once in, it would be next to impossible to get out from what the article says. I guess I am wondering how do people already in a place of privilege get sucked into that nuttiness. I can almost fathom Katie Holmes because of Tom's level of nuttiness, but....I mean really doesn't she know better? Oh well. My wonderings.

[bettyellen]

9. they go after celebs bigtime- remember the presley daughter married

michael jackson? that wasn't her idea, they wanted him.
very early on they get you to confess whatever you feel guilty about and record it- so you can't leave or they'll use it against you.
they also pretty much get you to severe ties with any sane, loving people in your life too, and encourage you to hang with other scientologists.

[LA lady]

45. Marriage missionaries

I think she was expected to bring in Nicolas Cage too.

I guess Cruise failed with Kidman so he moved on to a younger, more easily swayed Katie Holmes.

I am terrified of Scientology and find it hard to believe intelligent people fall for this scam.

[Hobarticus]

20. They're not getting paid but they get the keys to the kingdom, so to speak

Great article in Rolling Stone about this, BTW.

[AllegroRondo]

5. L Ron Hubbard actively targeted celebrities

he knew that getting celebrities involved would promote his religion and encourage new people to look into it.

[Radical Activist]

37. So discussions like this play into his game.

I see.

[Giant Robot]

38. I'm not sure if it does or not

Obviously I was thinking about Scientology because of the celebrity connection, specifically Isaac Hayes. But this thread is equal parts trying to understand, and trying to see more reasons to dislike, Scientology.

If you look at it like any publicity is good publicity, then yes this serves his means. But really what we are doing in here for the most part is talking about why people would punish themselves with choosing Scientology as a way of life. And I don't think that will help their cause any.

[Taverner]

12. A lot of it has to do with Scientology's message

At its core, even on the beginning levels, its about putting away guilt and conscience. They stress eliminating the "reactive mind" which is what causes you to second guess yourself, or your actions.

Think about this for a minute now, in terms of acting. Especially someone who is a method actor - who needs to eliminate their self for the purpose of a role.

[Crazy Dave]

16. Scientology isn't really that more bizarre than standard Christianity

It's primary purpose is to control and get people to obey. It's just done a different way. It's pretty strange and bizarre to think that we came from Adam and Eve, that the world flooded and a guy put two of every animal on a ship, that people come back from the dead, angels have wings, etc. If you obey the church's rules you get rewarded, if you don't you get punished and go to hell. People have no trouble believing this and get fanatical about it.

Oh yeah, they think everyone else is nuts and doomed to hell that don't believe the same way so they want to force you to believe the way they do and do it only in the name of saving you.

[Giant Robot]

19. That's why I tried to soften my OP

by saying that from a distance, any religion can look pretty nutty. I agree with you there, and quite frankly have not figured out my own spirituality. But I have to say, Scientology looks more nutty and cheezy sci-fi-ish than the others. My opinion.

[Crazy Dave]

25. I haven't figured myself out either

I feel a certain spirituality the same way as native Americans do. I feel power and energy all around me and I believe that harming the earth/environment and animals is wrong and that's what they worshiped. That's the closest I can describe myself as far as my beliefs. No heaven, no hell, maybe a soul or spirit but more than likely, worm food or food for the earth when we die.

[philosophie_en_rose]

27. Control, Obey, & Pay.

All religions have tenets that should be obeyed, but not all are equal in their enforcement of their rules or in their attitude towards members. Christianity is full of unpleasant (to say the least) events. However, there are fundamental differences between Christian groups - both among themselves and as compared to $cientology.

Example:
The Catholic Church has a whole bundle of requirements that you should meet before taking communion, such as confession. However, if you confess your sins, you are absolved. In Scientology, your guilt is brainwashed away, but your confession is catalogued and filed for future use against you.

Also, the Catholic Church, like many religions, have groups of followers that serve the organization (nuns, sisters, monks, priests, etc). However, if a nun leaves the church, the Catholics will not charge her for everything she's ever used in association with the group.

Example2:
Christian Scientists (among others) have strong beliefs about certain medical practices. Scientologists hate psychiatry. Is Scientology just like any old religion, then? No. Scientologists actively campaign against psychiatry and inflict fake medical practices on the mentally ill (whom are indentured as "staff").

Example3:
Fred Phelps is a hateful asswipe. He pickets individuals and public organizations. While Phelps and Scientology share a lot of stalking practices, Phelps will eventually leave. Scientology has a secret police division and a cadre of Greta Van Susterens to destroy critics. What other religion does that?

Hypothetical:
Say that Creflo A. Dollar (the best-named televangelist ever) needs your help to build something or save someone or something. However, somehow the funds solicited from grannies go into Creflo's shiny suit fund. (a clerical error :))

Is this any different from Scientology charging for services? Answer: Hell, yes. Creflo isn't going to send a collections agency or private investigators or scientologist burglers after you. He might take money from the naive, but you will not be indentured for thousands and thousands of dollars.

[Crazy Dave]

28. Are they really that bad as far as blackmail and extortion tactics?

Seriously this is something I haven't heard about before and I'm probably going to do some more research on it. Won't be long before other religions catch on to these tactics for sure if they see someone else getting away with it.
Great comparisons. I'd like to add one of mine. A muslim blows-up a building it's called terrorism, a christian blows-up an abortion clinic it's just an ordinary crime.

[Shakespeare]

29. Google "Paulette Cooper Scientology"

And she's just one of many.

[Giant Robot]

30. Part of religion I think is its imparting

of a value system on us. So where ever we go for our spiritual needs, someone will be there to tell us how to fill them, what is right, what words to use, and make meaning for us.

It sounds like Scientology is the least likely to allow us to make meaning for ourselves. The word of mouth that might come about from a confession in Catholicism is not going to be as hurtful as having one's own written list of transgressions leaked to the world.

But at the end of the day we all have a choice, celebs included. Whether we allow these people to continue to make meaning for us, or if we chose to take that back for ourselves. That was what I wondered was why these people continue to accept this reality, this value system, this way of making meaning.

And seriously do not let me get wound up by their view on psychiatry. My prejudice is that I am a counselor, so I take great offense by this, as well as think it is dangerous to espouse such views that may do great harm. My wife is tired of hearing this rant. To kind of sum up, I refuse to see Tom Cruise movies now because of his media driven rants. Cure schizophrenia Tom, then we'll talk. Or at least take a course at your local community college. Grrrrr.

Although I do shudder at the thought of a legion of Greta Van Susterens coming after me.

[philosophie_en_rose]

48. Scientology is like a pimp.

It "love bombs" new members and hides its less savory parts. Unlike other religions, you cannot have access to what scientology really represents, until you pay or indenture yourself. Even if you come to your senses, it will still exploit you.

I agree about choice. It is a choice to ignore recruiters. It's a choice to take a personality test.

However, Scientology often masks itself behind other organizations. For instance, Lisa Presley and Isaac Hayes formed a foundation to put "study guides" in schools. They claim that it has nothing to do with religion, when it does. There is a fairly well-known acting studio that is run by a scientologist, where up and coming actors are love bombed into scientology. The woman behind Bart Simpson and Jenna Elfman started there.

Similarly, Narconon and Criminon do not necessarily reveal their connections to Scientology. Thus, it preys upon vulnerable people. Coupled with its aversion to psychiatry, scientology's predatory practices lead to immense suffering and alienation from support systems.

I think of Scientology like a predatory lending institution, rather than a religion. People in need should not be exploited with hidden fees, overbearing collections, or harassment.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

33. Excellent post

Wish I could kick and recommend just this. :thumbsup:

[XemaSab]

44. That's SOME Christianity

Liberal Christianity is about kindness and charity to others, and I'm not aware of a wing of Scientology that isn't about Xenu, or whatever.

[DrGonzoLives]

21. It's not a "religion"

It's a complex confidence scam - no religion forces you to pay through the nose for "salvation."

Scientology needs to be ended, and quickly.

As for celebrities, they're flakes.

[Katherine Brengle]

32. It's just as much a "religion" as all of the other...

established "religions" out there. It asks followers to believe in things that defy common sense, to conform to unrealistic standards/rules, and donate money to keep the "church" up and running.

It is easy to make fun of, but it is no worse than the older religions.

[Pithlet]

34. The difference

is that it doesn't just ask believers to believe those things. It demands they pay, and pay through the nose, to have access to the knowledge they need to believe and be a member. There is a difference between asking for donations from members of the faith, and requiring payment before you're even allowed access to the "religion". I'm not religious, and never have been. What really bugs me about the argument that Scientology is just another religion is that is is legitimizing what the organization does. They themselves defend the things they do with that very argument. You don't have to pay a dime to be a Christian. I'm not even a Christian, and I can think of several churches in my area that I could go to, and participate, and not pay a thing. Not so with Scientology. Sure, there are subgroups of Christianity that mirror the tactics that Scientology employs, and there have been actual cults operating in the name of Christianity. But Christianity, and other religions as a whole do not have the same rigid, financial, completely life altering demands that Scientology does.

[Katherine Brengle]

39. I don't think it is any different from tithing...

in the Mormon religion. I think that people target Scientoloy because it's easy. I agree that it is insane, but I think all organized religions are bologna.

[Pithlet]

40. I don't object the notion that they're all bologna.

I don't belong to any relgion, and believe in none of it. As far as the example of Mormons go, like I said, there may be sub groups under the general label of Christianity that have practices similar to Scientology (not saying Mormon is one of them, just speaking generally), but that doesn't mean that Christianity is like Scientology. Being religious, and actually being involved in a money making scam, are two completely different things. What I object to is the notion that Scientology is the same bologna as religion in general. I don't subscribe to any religion at all. But I do see the distinct difference between outright monetary based scams, and faith and religion in general. I don't think any religion is "correct". But there is a big difference between a person of faith, and a member of a cult that scams its victims of money. Both may be objectionable to you, but that doesn't mean that both equate each other.

[bettyellen]

47. catholics don't tithe... and they never require donations

for the sacraments, it was always understood that some people didn't have the resources to pay and that was fine with our church and school.
also, most churches don't sue people for talking about them, or try and prevent them from leaving, or seeing doctors or their families, etc. those are techniques cults use- to isolate you from your loved ones.
other religions are strange, but most have a focus on helping your fellow man- charity and good works are a HUGE focus in traditional christianity, scientology doesn't give a fuck about other people, is about trying to become a god yourself, it is the ultimate ego trip.
it is some crazy scary shit, the way they punish people who try to leave is the big clue. when christinans go around killing pets, smearing blood on people's walls... i'll call them a cult too.

[DrGonzoLives]

42. Scientology requires "fees," not "donations"

There's a difference.

[Radical Activist]

36. No religion forces you to pay for salvation? Really?

The Catholic church let up on indulgences long ago but don't you still have to pay for some sacraments that are required for salvation like marriage and confirmation? Every protestant church I've been to had a collection plate.

[DrGonzoLives]

41. Donation /= Mandated

Besides, there is absolutely nothing in the Bible that requires one to go to church to be saved - only faith. If a church is charging admission, they would do well to remember Christ raising hell with money changers in the temple.

Scientology, on the other hand, they won't do anything with you unless you fork over money, and the way that their cult is set up, anything requiring "salvation" requires them actually doing it.

[Orsino]

22. If I'd invested so much time and money in a faith...

...I'd be reluctant to admit my mistake by breaking away, too. Especially if the church in question kept files on my innermost thoughts and feelings that would be pure gold for the tabloids. Particularly when the church is known for its dirty tricks and blackmail in punishing dissenters.

For a celebrity, there's no upside to leaving such a church.

[no name no slogan]

26. Especially after they tell you the Xenu story

after you've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on "auditing" and you come to realize it's all just a half-baked scam by a bad science fiction writer.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

23. It's an expensive, wacko pseudoreligion

Naturally those who deal in fantasy would be drawn to it.

[Giant Robot]

24. So it is just as much about fear as it is salvation

Celebrities continue to get the keys to the kingdom to be good, the carrot, or they get their dirty little secrets told to the world if they don't behave, the stick.
*Shaking my head sadly*
What a sad little microcosm of humanity.

[patcox2]

31. Because lots of actors are really really dumb. Ciphers.

Its true.

[Radical Activist]

35. Jenna Elfman?

No, not Dharma! There goes that celebrity crush!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

43. It must be the drugs in them....

:D

[Giant Robot]

46. What???

No I am truly shocked that anyone would even suggest drugs are in Hollywood. :P

As an aside, I am all excited as this is my first post past 20 responses. Woo hoo. Go me.

[Ratty]

49. I've known a few scientologists

And they were fun reasonable people. This was years and years ago, before all the bad press.

There seems to be something about Scientology and Fame which turns people into dicks though.

[Strong Atheist]

50. Because celebrities tend to be a bit

and scientologists are totally



therefore, the fit.