Vivaldi vs. Beethoven

[graywarrior]

I'm listening to Vivaldi and I have images of nancies prancing around in knickers and leotards. Beethoven, on the other hand, congers up images of asses getting royally kicked, dark saloons filled with Hell's Angel type characters ready to fuck you up.

Anyone think Vivaldi is a little nancy boy? I read that he was quite a lady's man, but his music is so...frilly.

[MsAnthropy]

1. I'm definitely a Ludwig fan

He must have been that era's heavy metal guy--waaaay badass!

[graywarrior]

2. Yeah, doesn't he make you want to kick ass, drive fast

say Fuckin' A as loud as you can?

[AllegroRondo]

3. Ill take Vivaldi

the man wrote 36 bassoon concertos. What more could you ask for?


Seriously, they lived at different times. What they wrote just reflects the style of the time they lived in.
Vivaldi was a master of the Baroque style. Its 'frilly and nancy' sounding because thats what was popular at the time.
Beethoven came at the end of the Classical era, and the beginning of the Romantic. Big, powerful sounds were in.

[graywarrior]

4. Ya but, who'd win in a fight?

[tigereye]

5. that would have been

a great Python sketch...

I still like the one with boxer and was it Kenneth Clark? Some Oxford don whose name is escaping me....

[graywarrior]

6. I'd like to see Vivaldi cry and Beethoven run.

[AllegroRondo]

7. You mean the man who wrested himself?

or the fight between a bishop and an Oxford professor to settle the existence of God?

[tigereye]

8. nope

I think it was just a boxer and a don turned TV pundit. Obviously there are lots of variations on the theme. :)

My actual favorite is the running race with famous artists.

[AllegroRondo]

10. The one where Van Gough paints

while riding a bicycle?

Great one there.

[AllegroRondo]

9. Well, that depends

on what point in their lives you have them fight.

Beethoven was known to be a sickly and frail man, prone to loud and violent outbursts, and a general ass to everyone including his family. It is believed he suffered from lead poisoning for most of his life, and was also a heavy drinker.

Vivaldi is thought to have suffered from asthma, and general ill health for most of his life also. He was a known womanizer, and left the priesthood to teach music at a school for female orphans. It is also believed that he wrote parts in his operas as 'gifts' for female singers he was having affairs with.

[Common Sense Party]

29. Vivaldi wins, hands down. Much more enjoyable to listen to.

[meegbear]

11. Shades of Clockwork Orange my dear?

[Sequoia]

12. Hey stop it....his Four Seasons are awesome.

He was a priest. He was called the red-headed priest and he died poor and forgotten. You can listen to his music and just hear nature. He really loved outdoors and would listen to birds, the wind, etc. and write music from it.

[tjwmason]

13. I was just about to say

"apart from the four seasons Vivvers is wonderful".

He despite being a Priest - he was given permission not to say Mass, apparently he would be celebrating a thought for some music would jump into his head and he'd dash away from the Altar mid-service.

[jpgray]

14. Vivaldi is the same fucking concerto 400 times

:P

Not really, but pretty close. I prefer Beethoven, but I like both.

[Reverend_Smitty]

15. Pretty much all Baroque music sounds the same...

but I still enjoy it. Comparing Vivaldi to Beethoven is like comparing apples to oranges, it's not a fair fight. I like em both but for different reasons.

[kwassa]

16. I'll take Bach, please.

[jpgray]

17. Bach kicks Vivaldi's ass all over the place

But they were both very talented. Bach even transcribed some V string concerti for keyboards, etc.

[graywarrior]

18. I have Beethoven's temperment....not his talent, tho.

[Taverner]

19. Vivaldi was all Melody and no Counter melody

He was the Britney Spears of his era, without the skank...

[jpgray]

20. Say whaaaaat!?

Vivaldi has some badass contrapuntal moments in his catalogue.

[Taverner]

21. Where? Show me...

I have found his stuff to be as deep as pop music in terms of counter melody....

Beethoven, on the other hand.....Pure depth

[jpgray]

22. When I get back from work

I'll upload some stuff and PM you the links. Superficially Vivaldi seems kinda trite and boring due to the ubiquity of Four Seasons, but there's some good stuff in there.

[graywarrior]

23. Send them. I'd be interested to change my opinion.

As for now, Viv's a nancy.

[Misunderestimator]

24. What on earth are you talking about?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

25. Listen to Nigel Kennedy's interpretation of "4 Seasons"

You won't think Vivaldi is such a pansy.

Plus, Vivaldi lived from 1678–1741; while Beethoven lived from 1770–1827. It's kind of like comparing Mendelssohn to Stravinsky...

[trof]

26. I'll take Vivaldi and give you 8 to 5 on the other guy.

;-)

[bridgit]

27. Vivaldi wrote some of the most beautiful music, led a charmed life...

and passed on with a conservatory filled with students & commissions; Ludwig wrote some of the most challenging, forward thinking music, led what at the time was considered a 'republican' existence, in spite of his genius; led as well a contentious life of estrangement and love unrequited to occasionally pee on himself from within bouts of self abuse...

i like them both for what they have brought to us all, and the means by which they have done so :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

28. Big fan of Beethoven.

[graywarrior]

30. Beethoven sounds like he was self absorbed, as only a

lead poisoned, deaf composer with insane hair (!) can be.

Vivaldi pranced around tossing bouquets and spinning in delicate circles and wearing too much cologne.

(These are rantings of demented visuals and stories I make up which I eventually believe and then pass them on to other people who think I'm sick and need a therapist.)

[tjdee]

31. Beethoven was deaf, and wins by default. He couldn't even hear his own mus

ic!

Granted, his deafness was gradual, but he wrote the 9th symphony, which I believe to be one of the greatest pieces of music of all time, totally deaf. And therefore, he is the winner by default of any contest of classical composers. Every time.

Even if his hearing was perfect his entire life, he still would win over Vivaldi though. Four Seasons bothers me. I think it's because I hate freedom. :silly: And that's all he's rolling with.

Beethoven's got the 3rd (Eroica), 5th, 6th (the Pastoral), the Moonlight Sonata, Fur Elise, Pathetique... and that's what Vivaldi is, pathetic!

[graywarrior]

34. Excellent excellent excellent.

I'm listening to the 9th right now. Ludwig's entire life flows through that entire piece.

[CBGLuthier]

37. You are correct in your assessment

The 9th is the greatest music ever.

[Rabrrrrrr]

32. Beethoven! I agree with Igor re Vivaldi - he didn't write 520 concertos

he wrote one concerto 520 times.

His stuff is fine for listening to, and rather fun to play, but one only needs a few minutes of it. Vivaldi was not compelling - there are far better composers of that style. Give me Bach over Vivaldi any day.

But give me also Beethoven! Now, there's a composer's composer! Beethoven, Mahler, Wagner, Sibelius - these are the guys who knew what they were doing.

[allalone]

33. different times, so different styles

apples and oranges. love both though

[Karenina]

35. Peaches vs Pomegranates

.

[CBGLuthier]

36. Beethoven, all the way

As a dear friend of mine has said many a time, he may not know much but the 9th is the finest music ever written.

Myself, I am partial to the 7th, second movement in particular but no arguing the 9th.

I love Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Bach, Chopin, and Holst but Beethoven beats them all.

[Squeech]

38. Beethoven

He's not my favorite composer, but I admire the fiery temperament of his music.

Baroque music in general is considerably less interested in emotion than in abstract musical values like structure, harmony, and an overall sense of order, and for my tastes only Bach delivers enough of that to satisfy.

There's a story that Vivaldi once travelled to Ireland and met the legendary Irish composer Turlough O'Carolan. The story has it that the two entered into what we would nowadays call a cutting contest, and purportedly, Vivaldi lost. But this story tends to be told only by partisans of Irish music, and there doesn't appear to be any historical documentation backing it up. (Some people say it was really a *student* of Vivaldi's.)

[Laelth]

39. I think it was Nietzsche who said of the Romantics ...

"If they were that miserable, why didn't they just kill themselves and get it over with?" (rough paraphrase)

I prefer the optimism of the Baroque. I respect Vivaldi, but must agree with Rabrrrrrr that Bach is the master of that style, and in Bach one sees the emergence of both the Classical and the Romantic styles. Can't touch Bach. Mozart, it has been said, mastered the Classical. Romanticism had to follow, for none could match Mozart in the Classical style.

Ultimately, I admire the Romantics and can enjoy them when I am in the right mood, but I'd rather celebrate life with the Baroque and Classical artists.

-Laelth

[graywarrior]

40. Optimism always turns into disappointment. Thus: Beethoven.

[Laelth]

41. That's the cyclical theory of history (and music).

Sarokin--interesting way of looking at things. ;)

Ann Rice's Vampire Chronicles are all about this transition (from the Classical, represented by Lestat, to the Romantic, represented by Louis). I enjoy this particular distinction.

-Laelth

[graywarrior]

42. Thank you.