Daddeeee Sleeeeeeeeep!!!!!

[Taverner]

OK, every night we have a routine for Tavernertoddler. I brush his teeth, change his diaper and read him three books. He loves "The Story of Ferdinand" by Munro Leaf. But I digress...

Lately, he's noticed Tavernertot has been getting to sleep with Mommy, so when I leave for the night he says in his saddest cutest voice "Dadeeeeeeeeeeeee Sleeeeeeeeeep!" meaning he wants me to crawl into bed with him and wait until he falls asleep.

Usually I have to threaten to turn off the night light to get him to go to bed (which makes him get REALLY upset.)

Any ideas?

[jhain]

1. just do it

I do believe that the best 'theory' of parenting is the 'Unmet Needs Do Not Go Away' theory. He needs this just now. Don't knock yourself out trying to figure out why; just do it.
Or you are looking down the road at a kid who freaks about about monsters in closets and shadows outside and who has major meltdowns if you even TRY to go to the movies for a date some night.
Give him what he NEEDS as a youngster and the pay-offs will be massive later.
Look for Bill Sears books on night time stuff. If you find Ferber or anybody like that buy them and send them to me as I use for as kindling in my woodstove.

[Iris]

2. nicely put jhain.

[jhain]

8. Thanks...

My 5 kids are 30 yo to 13 yo.

And I must say they are LOVELY, AWESOME people.
I DO know how exhausting it is when you are entrenched in the trenches but I can honestly say I would not change my methods if I had to do any of it again. And now there is MUCH more support for loving parenting; much less of the 'you are spoiling those brats' commentary that undermines new parents.

[Iris]

10. I hope so. A few years ago when a lot of my friends and family

had kids, Babywise was all the rage.

[Taverner]

3. I actually read Baby-Wise

I do think he's a little extreme, but his process for weaning kids out of bed was good and worked...

His toilet training plan didn't work though...

[jhain]

4. good old Gary needs the sales

to pay his lawyers.

http://www.nospank.net/ezzo3.htm

[Iris]

9. You know he's a fundamentalist Christian, right?

[Taverner]

11. Yeah I know

I was given the book by a couple (we trust) who isn't fundie, and said to read it with a grain of salt, because the weaning process worked for them.

Thing is on the Sears/Ferber spectrum, they're both kind of extreme...

I mean - letting the kids co sleep until they ASK for a bed???? No way we're doing that!

[jhain]

12. when *are* they old enough to be alone?

Our thing with this was a safety factor. As parents we believe the child needs to be able to get out if there is a fire before they are allowed their own room/bed. I never could see putting them down the hall alone until I knew they could accomplish that on their own. Really, we are the ONLY society that insists on this 'independence' from such young children and every other country turns out kids who sleep on their own eventually.

Plenty of other places in the house to have sex if they are in your bed when the urge arises.

[Taverner]

13. Yes but it's not just independence

IN other countries kids stay at home until they get married, which doesn't happen until the kid hits 30. Like it or not, that is not the case here.

I think a 9 mo can sleep by themselves

[miss_american_pie]

15. A nine month old or your nine month old?

Ezzo aside, my what annoys me with most parenting books is the one-size-fits-all approach they insist on to sell books.

You and your wife are the only people who can say when your kids are ready to sleep by themselves.

[Taverner]

16. Well true but Tavernertoddler was ready at 9 months

Tavernertot, we'll see...

Some kids start sleeping alone from the beginning - and it works.

[miss_american_pie]

19. I've heard of kids like that

Don't seem capable of producing them though. ;)

[Midlodemocrat]

17. Baby-Wise is a hunk of crap.

And I know of what I speak. I was a child and adolescent psychologist pre-kids. Read Bill Sears on the subject. His style of parenting is more attachment parenting and believe me, that is the route you want to go. It will make your children far less clingy and far more independent and willing to try new things in the long run.

I used it on my three. So far, so good.

[Taverner]

18. Thing is, I think Ferber, Ezzo AND Sears are all wrong

Ferber and Ezzo are too authoritarian in their style
Sears is going to give us a generation of kids who never leave home

The one thing I can say about my experience with kids so far is that it's a lot like skiing. You don't fight the forces, you work WITH them and things go OK. Be prepared to adapt. The problem with so many parents is that they're too rigid to adapt.

[Midlodemocrat]

20. I disagree.

Sears has it spot on, IMHO. If you look at people who have successfully attachment parented, their kids are more independent and more outgoing.

[Taverner]

22. I dunno - look at countries where they practice attachment parenting

Spain is a good example. Kids stay in the family bed usually until their tween years. And kids don't leave home until they get married, and sometimes they don't even move out then!

[Midlodemocrat]

23. That is more a cultural thing than attachment parenting.

Attachment parenting is all about meeting your child's needs at the time they have them.

[southlandshari]

35. I completely agree

I have laid down with my daughter until she sleeps (or slept in the same bed with her) most every night we have been under the same roof in her six and a half years. I do it because it is our special quiet time of the day. She wants me there, and I love the closeness it gives us.

on edit: at first, I didn't feel this closeness, because I was impatient for her to go to sleep so I could do something else (like log onto DU, I'm embarrassed to say). Once I finally let go of what I wanted, and gave her what she needed, I realized how good it was for both of us!

My daughter has never had a problem spending the night with friends or family, or getting to sleep without me when I've had a late meeting or been out of town - she is perfectly capable of going to sleep in a bed by herself. But when I'm there, she wants me. I don't think that makes her dependent or less likely to develop into a healthy, independent individual. Rather, she knows she is loved and valued. Actually, I think she is one of the most adaptable kids I've ever seen.

Just give him that time with you. Especially given that he is adjusting to a brand new baby sharing his space and his mommy and daddy. I think it will be reassuring and healthy for him, nothing negative at all.

:)

[fight4my3sons]

28. I agree.

:thumbsup:

My three year old is very independent. He co-sleeps, but also has his own bed. He decides where he wants to sleep. The twins didn't really like co-sleeping, but like to sleep in their cribs pushed up next to each other. They are also very independent. Everyone said 'your kids are going to be so clingy because you carry them around all the time and are with them 24 hours a day.' They have no problems at all separating from me when we are out at playgroups. I have never had a problem at all. People often comment on how outgoing they are.

[jhain]

24. Been reading Sears since the 80s -just try to keep my kids at home...

they have all been FRIERCLY independent since about 6 yo. A map with pins marking where my kids have traveled/lived would be VERY impressive. All five of them have their own businesses- including my 13 yo.

It's the unmet needs do not go away FACT:
You lose some sleep now or you lose many nights later. Now, when it is so easy to comfort them back to sleep gets my vote every time. There is no easier way to provide emotional security.

Again, I WELL remember the exhaustion of parenting babies and toddlers and have no intention of minimizing anyone's sleep deprivation!- there are so many nights of teething and illness that do cause you to walk the floors that on a good night when everybody feels ok it is important to take advantage and snuggle up together. REAL sleep makes all the difference when trying to cope the next day.

[Midlodemocrat]

27. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[progmom]

33. we agree completely, you and me

:thumbsup:

[merh]

41. We now have a generation of kids that won't leave home

And it can't be blamed on attachment parenting.

You cannot love a child too much, you can distance yourself from loving a child by rationalizing that too much love and/or attention will spoil your child and make him/her too dependent on you.

jmho

[nutsnberries]

14. without ever reading any parenting books, i agree.

just do it.

what could be wrong about a happy, safe feeling?

and eventually they are ok without you. it comes soon enough.

[texas1928]

36. But then someone may sneak up on them and...

Well you know...




























TAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nutsnberries]

38. nah,

i saw you coming! ;)

[texas1928]

39. Made it to easy for you.

I got you again.

[Arugula Latte]

25. Can you imagine cavemen putting their babies in a separate cave?

When my mother would question us letting our kids sleep with us, I'd say: "That's how humans evolved." My kids have become happy, well-adjusted, confident kids and I think part of it was the early feeling of warmth and protection they got from sleeping with us. They both moved into their own beds when they were three.

[huskerlaw]

5. he's jealous of the new baby

I'd agree to stay in the room with him on the condition that he actually tries to go to sleep.

He's likely confused about why the baby gets the additional parent time and he doesn't...and that's not unreasonable. So give him the extra attention he's asking for, but don't let him turn it into a game or a way to manipulate bed time.

[SeattleGirl]

6. My thoughts exactly, huskerlaw

Tavernertoddler just needs to know that he is still special too. He'll likely grow out of it, but for now, with Tavernertot being so new to his world, he just has a need for some extra attention.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

7. Enjoy it while it lasts.

It won't hurt for you to snuggle with him for awhile. Just think, in a few years he'll want to be as far away from his parents as possible...

[LaraMN]

21. You know who really steered me in the best direction with my kids?

My kids.
I don't think I've picked up a parenting book in about six years, and the last time I checked (aside from the unfortunate incident last night) I haven't unduly warped them, or encountered any insurmountable battles with them.

Oh- and neither of my older two kids were potty trained by their third birthday. I just left it up to them to decide when they wanted to use the potty, encouraged them, and it was an absolute piece.of.cake. with both of them once they chose to make the switch.

[politicat]

26. Do it.

Toddler is feeling insecure because the new baby is taking the time that used to be his from both you and your wife. Reassuring him by snuggling with him for 15 minutes a night is not going to harm either of you, and will make him more secure in your affection.

This need won't go away, and not giving him the attention now will help forestall problems later in childhood.

Also, he's likely to sleep quicker and longer if he's feeling secure and safe.

Besides, he's only this age once. In ten years, you'll look back on these moments with nostalgia and may have regrets that you didn't take the time with him when you had the option. Our philosophy is: If I would look back on this moment in X number of years and feel bad about how I treated someone, I shouldn't treat him that way.

[Katherine Brengle]

29. A testimonial from a liberal mommy--

When my 2-year old daughter expresses a need like this, I do my best to meet it. I have raised her according to this principle thus far and experienced NO problems. She is well-adjusted, healthy, and independent:

She has adjusted very quickly to every change along the way--eating solid foods, brushing her teeth, drinking out of a sippy cup instead of a bottle, giving up her pacifier (at one year old), moving from her crib to a "big girl" bed--she is very independent and strong and I think a lot of this comes from knowing that I am there to catch her if she falls.

:) You'll be fine--just give out the love freely, and everything will be as it should be.

[fortyfeetunder]

30. Do it for now, it's just a phase.

If this is any comfort to you, my little guy wanted to nurse himself to sleep when he was a toddler. Fundamentally I was against it, but I decided this is probably a phase and one day he won't want me in his room, much less wanting the "dairy queen". And I got a brief nap before closing out the days activities.

And sure enough, one day he told me, I don't want any more (nursing), and it stopped just like that. Today, this kid doesn't want me near his bedroom!!! It's read me a story and go away!

[wellstone dem]

31. I adopted my daughter at aged 9

after she'd spend nearly 5 years in foster care and the rest in abusive and neglectful homes.

My advice, as someone who didn't get to cuddle a two year old, do so every chance you get.

As someone who has parented a child who had trouble attaching because she couldn't trust adults, hold your child close and love them and give them what they need---not what you need.

My daughter is 18, and on the anniversary date of our adoption (March 23) she gave me a card saying "Now I've spent more than half my life with you. You are the best." She will be going to college this fall. And I've raised a strong and independent woman, but I wish someone had been holding her and loving her because that is what she needed when she was two.

[supernova]

32. Awww, just hold him till he goes to sleep

:hug:

Would that really be so hard for your?

He needs you, Daddy. And he won't forever. But right now he does. So cuddle him, dammit! That's an ORDER! ;-)

[khashka]

34. Aw come on , dude!

Like holding him for five minutes as he falls asleep is gonna ruin your life?

Khash.

[Laelth]

37. You have them for such a short period of time.

If it's not interfering with your relationship with your SO, I say give 'em all the love they want. I do believe, however, that it's important to reserve some time for you and the SO, and the little ones need to learn to share.

Good luck. No right answers here, ultimately. People are very, very complicated.

-Laelth

[petronius]

40. I'd say it's time for a spanking, definitely

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!)

:popcorn: