How come people will go back 30 or 40 years for rock music

[Ron Green]

but won't go back 60 or 70 for swing and jazz? I mean, as long as you are listening to music made before you were born, why not check out an even richer experience? I'm always surprised at the reverence for the Beatles from people born in the 70's or 80's, when very few born in the 50's or 60's know much about Benny Moten or Jimmy Lunceford.

Maybe it's about popularity vs. artistic merit, but the market for "classic rock" seems unlimited, and hundreds of threads on DU bear this out. But a song by the Beatles, the Who or Tower of Power doesn't sound "right" when it's played by a current artist, while standard American tunes from 20 or 30 years before that are timeless, and will bear all kinds of arrangements and renditions.

So c'mon, "Classic Rock" fans, dig a little deeper and find the groove.

B-)

[wildhorses]

1. do you mind if I also go back in time and dig a little deeper into

my vault for a little classical ....some Bach anyone?

[Ron Green]

20. I loves me some Bach, even though he's a little bit pre-classical.

I wish elementary part-writing were a part of fundamental music education in all public schools.

[CanuckAmok]

27. You philistines don't go back nearly far enough.

Have you ever taken the time to listen to the Third Movement of "Ungh Ungh Baaaaa Oooo Ungh" by Grot the Firemaker? It's transcendant.

[Radio_Lady]

43. LOL. FedEx is running some funny commercials in the US with

two "insulted cavemen." Not sure they're playing in Canada, 'though.

Now, THEY knew how to play those hollow trees with sticks!

The other day, I told somebody I like New Age music.

He said, "Do you know what New Age music is when it's played backwards?"

I said, "What?"

He said, "New Age music."

Then he insulted Zamfir and the pan flute. I told him I just bought a CD with pan flute music when we were in Arizona.

To be clear where I'm coming from, I don't care for reggae and I hate rap. But we saw Spike Lee's new movie "Inside Man" tonight -- and I just loved the music. I have no idea why.

[CanuckAmok]

46. Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Knock knock...

Who's there?


Philip Glass.

[Radio_Lady]

48. What? Do you mean...

...this guy?

http://www.philipglass.com/

[CBGLuthier]

55. Koyaanisqatsi

He scored the film Koyaanisqatsi. If you haven't seen it you may want to try it. Some people love it, some hate it.

He also did the score for the Truman Show which has become a trailer temp score staple.


Most consider him a minimalist composer but he moved away from that years ago. That's what the joke is about.

Repetitive music is hard for most people to appreciate. You just have to let it flow and appreciate the subleties. It does work best when used to accompany visuals like film.

[Radio_Lady]

58. Appreciate your clearing that up. I did see one of the later films:

Naqoyqatsi (2002)

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0145937/

The visuals gave me a terrible headache and I voted it one of the worst films of 2002.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me!

Re: Repetitive music: Maurice Ravel's "Bolero" (long orchester form) is one of my favorite symphony pieces.

In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[CBGLuthier]

60. Ahh, digi-skatski

Yeah, I saw it and it was a bit too much.

Koyaanisqatsi is much easier on the eyes. Mostly a string of slow motion and time-lapsed filmwork set to music. It attempts to show that our modern life isn't working.

Should be seen in a theater if at all possible.

Bolero is a wonderful piece of music. There was an excellent animation set to it years ago. I think it was included as part of Allegro Non Troppo http://imdb.com/title/tt0074121 but can't remember for sure.

[Radio_Lady]

61. One other film that comes to mind -- Blake Edwards' "10"

http://imdb.com/title/tt0078721/

10 (1979) with Dudley Moore and Bo Derek

Non-Original Music by
Maurice Ravel (from "Bolero")

My husband loves Maurice Ravel's work, especially "La Valse"!

My favorite is "Le Tombeau de Couperin" and I had the recording from an album showing an exotic woman with a lighted matchstick in her mouth! Bizarre!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/profiles/ravel.shtml

http://www.maurice-ravel.net/

[CBGLuthier]

62. Oh yeah, 10

Gave Bolero a whole new reputation. :-)

I actually bought the 45 that was released from the movie. 3 and a half minute version of Bolero. Not quite the same.

[Radio_Lady]

49. Or maybe "FILL UP GLASS"?

I guess there's a punch line there somewhere, but I'm not able to grasp the humor.
I'm not familiar with Philip Glass, the composer, either.

Original soundtrack from "Inside Man" was composed by Terence Blanchard. Not familiar with him, either.

[Dangerously Amused]

2. Ha!

Jimmy Lunceford - Swingin' Uptown!

Benny Moten - Layfayette!

Erskine Hawkins - Swing Out!

Fletcher Henderson - Mary Had a Little Lamb!

Bunny Berigan - All God's Chillun Got Rhythm! ...

[CBGLuthier]

3. That's how my tastes grew

Became musically aware in the early 70's. Learned the stuff of the 50's and 60's both country and rock.

Saw The Benny Goodman movie one day and the Glenn Miller one a few years later and started listening to swing, jazz, big band.

Got diverted into classical through my love of Tull (Bouree) Worked my way back up to the romantics and the impressionists.

Diverted into early synth music, then some techno, then off to minimalism.

There is great music in every field and if it moves you it works.

I think I can honestly say I have no real favorite genre of music.


My primary concession and joy in classic rock is that I listen to most of it on a station that played the songs when they were new, KOMA, so at least it doesn't feel like I listening so much to a marketed genre station like the other 2 classic rock stations in town.

[Whoa_Nelly]

6. Was fed and weaned on KOMA

Grew up in OKC...am a mid-50s born baby.

Now that they have streaming, am going to catch the Friday Song at 5pm (CST) today! Yeeow! A-yip-i-o-ee ay!

[Ptah]

37. I was born and raised on the Montana prairie

I remember {I must have been eleven or twelve} after sunset,
KOMA on a tube AM radio.



Ah, the good old days!

[fishwax]

52. I remember listening to KOMA in Wyoming at night

:thumbsup:

[theophilus]

4. I wonder the same things. I love all sorts of music from classical to

popular songs of the 1800s, to blue grass, to turn of the 20th century, to popular tunes up to the Fifties, to Fifties, etc. My mom was almost forty when she had me. I grew up in the early sixties but, for some reason, took a shine to the 78 rpm records she had saved from her younger days. I didn't listen to the Beatles (although I love them now), I listened to Bing Crosby, Glenn Miller, Jimmy Lunceford, Tommy Dorsey and many others. I still search for stuff on the net to make my own cds and have a very eclectic taste. (I really like Russian folksongs, too!) It makes me sad that my kids won't get into the older stuff, but I plant the seed by playing stuff when they can't escape. I don't force it on them but we all listen to each other's stuff. Oh, well. Thanks for bringing it up. :hi:

[xmas74]

5. My daughter listens to ragtime.

She's only five and she loves it. It does help that we are only a half hour away from the Scott Joplin festival.

She wants to go this June.

[hfojvt]

7. If we like classic rock

what makes you think we will like swing and jazz? Mostly I do not listen to swing and jazz from any era.

[djeseru]

8. I grew up listening to swing and big band...

...courtesy of my very cool grandmother. I knew who Billie Holiday and Duke Ellington was before any contemporary artists, sung Christmas carols along with The Andrews Sisters and understood that Louis Armstrong was a gift from God.

I also knew that Lunceford's orchestra had the best performances and Benny Moten died during a tonsillectomy - Count Basie took it from there.

My favorite is Fletcher Henderson and I'm trying to dig up some from Jean Goldkette.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

9. 'Cause many people think swing and jazz are "boring."

Mmmm yeah, listening to Miles on Kind of Blue is an exceptionally boring experience....Yeah.... And that Duke guy.....what a total bore "Take the 'A' Train" is.....Mmhmm...

:eyes::eyes:

[BlueJazz]

39. You don't know Anything!

You should hear the Rap Group "Dave Brubeck Quartet" :)

[billyskank]

10. Ah, it's the boomers

Everything they grew up with is classic and more worthy than anything else, and since they are the ones running the world right now, their culture is what is worth cherishing. Everything that came afterwards is shit and everything that came before doesn't exist.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

12. LOL!

:rofl:

[billyskank]

14. Chip? Shoulder? Me?

Nevah!!!!

-billyskank, generation X. :hi:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

16. Yup, we're a weird bunch, all right.

:D

:hi:

[CBGLuthier]

25. Hey at least your gen got a name

They lump early 60's babies like me in with the boomers and we have nothing n common. I didn't even really know the Beatles until after they had broken up although I did have a Yellow Submarine lunchbox. :-)

[DBoon]

11. it's called "The Generation Gap"

The chasm between the generation that grew up with swing and jazz and the generation that grew up with the British invasion rock and roll is huge in many ways.

In terms of musical style, current music has more in common with that of the late 1960's than the music of the 60's had with that of the 40's. You can almost draw a stright line between the Velvet Underground and a current punk band, or between Led Zepplin (AKA "New Yardbirds") and a current metal band. You can't do the same 20 years back.

This chasm was reflected in many other matters of lifestyle, fashion and values, not just music. I think kids today have much more in common with their parents than I did with mine. Body piercing and tattoos don't phase someone who grew up in the 60's, but are incomprehensible to the parents of the '60s generation.

That said, I really like the music of the 30's and 40's as a reflection of the times, and a fore-runner of what was to come. We had rock and roll in the 1940's, it was just called "jump blues" and white kids never listened to it. Western swing shows the origins of country and rockabilly.

[Ptah]

13. Here's the playlist I burned just the other night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=4922084&mesg_id=4922084

[Ron Green]

29. Nice list. n/t

[Ptah]

36. It's easy to go back to find good stuff.

It is difficult to go forward from what I grew up with.

I am reminded of my grandmother commenting that Glenn Miler
was 'young people's music".

I lost track in the early eighties (80's).

I keep hoping that some youngster will take me by my hand
and show me the evolution.


yada yadda

[LynneSin]

15. I think it depends on what the music means to you

Some of that music from 30-40 years ago was from when I was a kid. I mean, I appreciate swing, but it doesn't bring the joy & happiness that music from the late 60s/early 70s brings me.

[Ron Green]

18. Right, that's the point I was trying to make.

It's natural for people to cherish the music of their youth, as Boomers do the Beatles and Gen-Xers do the 80's and MTV era. But when people 25 years old are heavily into Led Zep or the Doors, they have reached back into another generation. I'm wondering why not pick a more hip generation, one that truly unites the black and white strands of American culture and music, which is what happened with popular music in the 30's and 40's? The natural outgrowth of such a unity, Motown, is a weak imitation of the great swing and jazz music that went before it.

[RandomKoolzip]

22. Because that stuff doesn't ROCK like Zep or Sabbath.

People are, again, vainly using sociology to gauge a phenomenon when plain ol' aesthetics will do just fine. To wit: lots of people like the sound of electric guitars in concert with a propulsive rhytym section and a singer who can project, working out on blues-based harmonic climates. That's just the way it is. Dragging "boomers" and politics and other shit into this argument is useless: people like to get rocked. Asking people to check out old swing after hearing Black Sabbath or Television or Fugazi or Thin Lizzy or Black Flag is like suggesting that a horse-drawn carriage is just as good as a Ferrari. Sorry! (Just as a side note, I have a few Benny Moten tunes on my iPod. I dig some of that stuff, as a historical fling, but it just can't compare as an aesthetic experience to the best rock: it's tinkertoy stuff....why settle for tiny plastic water powered rockets when I can ride on the space shuttle?)


And Motown is a weak imitation of swing and jazz?! :rofl: I'll be sure and tell Lamont Dozier that. He'll laugh, too.

[CBGLuthier]

24. Sing, Sing, Sing outrocks both of them

This may be the single most controversial thing I have ever said on DU but I mean it.

:-)

But I do agree with you about Motown. Nothing weak about it.

[CanuckAmok]

28. Sing Sing Sing blows the doors off most current "rock".

Especially when you imagine it in the context of being "new". It must have horrified parents with its "jungle rhythms".

Lest we forget that Benny Goodman was the first teen idol, and his matinee performance at Radio City sparked the whole idea of marketing music to teenagers.

[Dangerously Amused]

32. Sing, Sing, Sing will KICK YOUR ROCK-N-ROLL ASS. Yes INDEED!

:7


*Props to Skittles.

[Ron Green]

33. Speaking of "Sing, Sing, Sing,"

Louis Prima's band in the 1950's rocked the house. Check out the live medley of "Them There Eyes" and "Honeysuckle Rose." Whooosh.

Next to that kind of cooking, Led Zeppelin are milquetoast.

[Ron Green]

26. Nothing wrong with rocking, but swinging is a higher calling.

Speaking as one who grew up in the Age of Rock, and who has played hard-rocking music on stages with thousands of people boogieing out front, I won't deny that the power of the straight eighth note and the back beat can move lots of people, and is fun to play. However, I suggest that music for dancing, which is what popular music has mostly been, has declined as the quality of the dancing has declined (although it may be and chicken-and-egg question as to what has been the cause.) The skilled and elegant Lindy hoppers of the Swing Era are in a different league from the bouncing throngs at a Van Halen concert.

And to relegate hard-stomping music of the 30s and 40s to historical interest is to ignore its vitality in live performance, which is how music of that era sheds its low-fi recording constraints. Loud is good, but it's not what makes quality in music. It's the subtlety of the beat, and that's where swinging is more advanced than rocking. I don't know if a Ferrari is "better" than a horse-drawn carriage (not that accept your analogy without reservation), but it's mostly louder, faster and more polluting.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. I once attended an Oregon Symphony concert conducted by Norman Leyden

who had been in Glenn Miller's band.

They played a lot of swing standards, and out in front were some kids from one of the local performing arts emphasis high school, swing dancing to the music.

I knew the mother of one of the dancers, and she said that the kids really got into the music.

[Radio_Lady]

51. We went to the South Park blocks to hear Norman Leyden one

summer night. He is amazing, and so were the members of his pops concert group. It was a fabulous night! He's a treasure!



http://www.orsymphony.org/orchestra/conductors/leyden.html

[tigereye]

65. hmmm

I think this is the first thing you have said about music that I actually disagree with, RKZ. I think you can find many jazz/swing/ shuffle, what have you, influences in rock and roll and even in harder rock that came later....

One of the cool things about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is their emphasis on modern and less modern rockers, i.e., "what came first" and influences in general... some were quite surprising. Other influences you can hear in the tunes if you listen carefully.

[smirkymonkey]

35. I only seem to like music that was made before I was born!

Swing and Jazz are right up there for me, as is classical. I love the old scratchy recordings with tunes from the early part of the century and older European artists!

There are modern songs that I like, but there are very few artists these days or even in the past 30 years that do it for me enough to listen to one of their albums all the way through.

[tigereye]

64. actually if you listen carefully to many of the

Beatle's tunes, there is a lot of vaudeville and swing influence....also much of the British invasion stuff in general, like the Kinks.

I love jazz, but then I was raised by depression era parents parents who liked classical, rock, and showtunes. Cab Calloway and other jazz musicians have influenced a number of rock folk as well.

[Squeech]

17. What you like is what you like

And although I bow to no one on this board in musical smugness, I would not presume to tell someone that (s)he lacks groove if (s)he simply doesn't happen to get off on my favorite music.

Moreover, I think that the fact that the music of 30-40 years ago retains its relevance indicates that the social/cultural/political issues of 30-40 years ago remain important. I'm reminded once again of that bumper sticker Tom Tomorrow sells, Dubya = Nixon - brain. The fact that we have to confront the same sort of unaccountable dictatorial paranoid administration prescribes a certain aesthetic response in common between us and the classic rock era, and which is conspicuously absent from the jazz decades.

And honestly, In a Silent Way is boring, and if I'm not in exactly the right mood, so are Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson, Live Evil, etc. I'd trade all the Miles in my collection for a new King Crimson that sounded like the old King Crimson.

Yeah, I got an attitude today. Can you tell?

[Sequoia]

19. I listen to the 1920's and Weeny Junk Radio on Shout Radio.

I love that old stuff. I listen to all kinds of music but NEVER Christian Rock. The name alone chills me. I don't listen to the new pop music either, mostly. Mainly because we have crappy radio stations in the North Bay playing old 60s rock. They play the same old rock songs over and over and over. Never any Motown that's for sure.

[leftofthedial]

21. wait a minute! hip hop fans go back

tens of thousands of years to rock beating and chanting


(there I go again!)

[bikebloke]

23. Been exploring sounds from the 30's and 40's.

Early Count Basie, Edith Piaf, Glenn Miller, Jean Sablon, Louis Prima, Fats Waller, Charles Trenet. Just looking into Benny Goodman. I'll probably buy a CD soon. Though it takes weeks or even months before I opt to make a purchase, so my collection grows at a glacial pace.

These older tunes sound good coming up on an iTunes shuffle.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. Really, there's so much great early jazz and pop standards, as well as

about 1,000 years of early and classical music. :evilgrin:

[Orsino]

34. 'Cause swing and jazz don't rock.

I disagree about timelessness. You can find that in the music of any era; it just takes a while to be certain.

I believet that the rest of your point is perfectly valid, though it could apply as well to Gregorian chants, into which I am unlikely to delve very deeply. Passionate music of any era could be good, but there are limits to how far afield most of us will go in search of it.

[shanti]

38. because

most going back 60 or 70 years are....gone. :shrug: it's the boomers, man. there are so many of us.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. I was born in the 80s and love everything.

From the 1920s to today. :shrug:

[Zomby Woof]

41. Swing was all the craze in '98

It was good for selling khakis and making twentysomethings feel hip for awhile. But actually, it is the most cliched and uninteresting of all of the genre's variations. It didn't help that Ken Burns devotes nearly 40% of his documentary to it. Then dismisses everything after "A Love Supreme".

Jazz is great, I love it... but it is largely a dead genre. Rock isn't far behind with the way it has been going as of late.

For something deeper than swing, I go to Jimmie Rodgers, Blind Willie McTell, or Woody Guthrie. Now THOSE are timeless artists.

[Ron Green]

54. You make a good point about the folk-based artists, but

listen to Benny Carter's small-group recording of "Moten Swing" or "Ruby" and tell me it's not as timeless as Jimmie Rodgers. Knowing how to blow a horn doesn't automatically consign you to a museum.

[progmom]

57. .

:applause:

[tigereye]

66. don't agree that swing is boring at all

lots of those folks you are talking abou have been ripping off Goodman and Cab Calloway for quite some time now. Some better than others. Jimmy Dale Gilmore, Brian Setzer Orchestra, Squirrel Nut Zippers, Diddy Bops come to mind.

I don't agree that jazz is dead, perhaps unappreciated by the mainstream, but there is still quite a lively scene in some parts of the US ( lots of avant stuff in Chicago!) and in Europe.

[begin_within]

42. I listen to both 40's big band music and 60's rock. They're both great.

[Hissyspit]

44. I go back for everything. I used Napster to find stuff from the 1910s.

Oldest thing I got was from 1907. Can't find THAT stuff on iTunes.

[Vidar]

45. Real good question,

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

47. Swing is king!

Nuttin' like steppin' back for some College of Musical Knowledge!

Now we're cooking with gas, and that ain't no jive talking!

[FunkyLeprechaun]

50. Some rock

Is so much easier to understand than today's music. The words definitely go along with the beat. For example.... Sugar Sugar vs... Genie In A Bottle.

(I'm tone deaf so don't take my opinion too seriously)

[fishwax]

53. well, I don't buy your assessment of beatles/who tunes

as I've heard many great covers of both from performers of all kinds of styles. Nor do I necessarily accept that this is the best criteria for what's worth listening to. Or the "richer experience" assessment.

But I do love jazz, of many shades, variations, and decades ...

[AngryAmish]

56. Actually it is about the cultural power of the baby-boomers

(My thoughts on baby boomers are well known - I think they are a blight)

That said, you are noticing the power of the market. Music means the most to an average person when they are teens and early 20s. These are your favorite tunes as you get older.

The Baby Boomers because of their huge demographic force want to continue to keep their music popular. Some people will like it in later generations. It looks like we are stuck with classic rock until the boomers die off in 40 years.

[Initech]

59. I have tons of jazz, I am particularly a fan of...

The heavily orchestrated early Miles Davis albums. You know - Sketches of Spain, Porgy & Bess, Quiet Nights...

[khashka]

63. You ain't talking to me Ron....

I love rock, punk. blues,ragtime, etc.

Cool thing about being alive now.... we have access to all of it.


Khash.

[bertha katzenengel]

67. Who says we don't? XM Radio has been a godsend.

I regularly listen to 40s on 4 as well as 70s on 7. What a treasure trove!

Do you ever listen to NPR? Each April 1 they run (either on Morning Edition or ATC, I don't remember which) a goof story. One year it was about archivists at the Smithsonian Institution running a project to put all published American audio onto wax 78s for posterity, because the day might come, hundreds of years hence, when the only way to listen to audio would be to run a sharpened rock over the grooves on an album. :rofl: It was fabulous.

[mvd]

68. Well, for one thing, I'm more of a rock fan than a jazz fan

But I'm lucky enough to have a grandfather that's still into the old swing and jazz. He's told me about such names as Jascha Heifetz, Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Johnny Long, Jan Garver, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Chick Webb, Louis Armstrong, Les Brown, and Jimmy Dorsey (Tommy's brother.) I bet many today don't know the famous jazz players (many of whom played and didn't sing.)