That is SO Gay!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

I am teaching middle schoolers today and one of them a few minutes ago was talking about a movie and said "don't go see it, it is just SO GAY." So I'm thinking it was like Brokeback Mt. or something with a gay theme, but it was not. So I asked her, well, what do you mean "so gay?" What was gay about it? She says, "you know, Gay...stupid." I said "I thought Gay meant, like homosexual." She says, "no, no. not that kind of gay. Stupid gay."

I'm confused. When did THIS happen? We went on to talk a bit and she told me that her brother is "that kind of gay" and she would never insult gay people. But in her mind, "gay" is a whole other word meaning something completely different.

I think I'm getting ready to retire.

[Misunderestimator]

1. Yeah... weird use of it... An ex of mine's sister used it all the time...

despite us repeatedly telling her how insulting it was. I don't get it at all.

[skygazer]

2. Well, word meanings do change over time

Or expand. After all, gay used to mean happy and lighthearted. Cool meant not cold but not warm. Of course, used as she has used it, there's certainly a possibility of it being mis-interpreted and someone being offended.

At least "groovy" went out of style - that was a really silly word. :P

[anarch]

14. "groovy" is out of style? Bummer.

I guess I really need to catch up with the current lexicon. In my business, after all, it's important to stay Hep.

[Richardo]

36. I'm hip! It's a total drag.

:hippie:

[leeroysphitz]

37. I advise you to drive over to the Tropicana and pick up on

Guy Lombardo. He's in the Blue Room with his Royal Canadians.

[hfojvt]

38. Ahem

You know "bummer" is way out of style, don't you?
:hide:

[yellowdogintexas]

55. I don't care if bummer is out of style, I still like it. nt

[LostinVA]

3. My teenage niece and nephew say it

Yes, they know I'm gay, they know I don't like it, and I'm, close to both of them. They say it doesn't mean anything.... but it does.

[B3Nut]

4. I've seen it a lot on automotive discussion fora

Oftentimes the users of the term (usually late-teens-to-early-20's males with severely questionable English skills already) spell it "ghey". It's usually in reference to a vehicular modification that looks tacky or over-the-top, a common occurence in this demographic. :D

But this is the group of people who cannot seem to bring themselves to type "you" in its entirety, preferring instead to use the letter "u". Typing the "y" and the "o" first must require heroic effort on their part, it seems....

Todd in Beerbratistan

[ContraBass Black]

5. I think that one became widespread about ten years ago.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

6. Well it just hit Tallahassee!

[begin_within]

7. I have heard this used from time to time... "Those shoes are so gay," they

meant ugly or stupid, not homosexual or something homosexuals would do or have.

[Gormy Cuss]

8. Here's how I stopped my nephews from saying it/

"If you knew that the reason it's slang for stupid now is because of people who think being homosexual is stupid, would you still say it?"

I don't know if I made up that etymology but it did shut down their use of it, at least around me. I actually think it developed out of a twisted kid-PC from the phrase "that's so queer."

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Been that way my whole life.

And it's a damn hard habit to break, let me tell you. For a long time, "gay" and "homosexual" had little to do with each other.

[Left Is Write]

10. I wonder if she knows that "gay" used to mean happy or cheerful.

[fleabert]

11. my 22 yo cousin uses it that way. except around me.

i tore her a new one the first time I heard it come out of her mouth.

it drives me fucking nuts.

[eeyore]

12. It's been used that way for decades....

Growing up in Colorado in the 70s and 80s it was very commonly used that way.

Not new, just stupid and wrong.

[Flaxbee]

33. yup, in California in the 70s and 80s it was used that way, too

nt.

Haven't heard it used that way (as "stupid") in a while, though.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Katherine Brengle]

15. Totally normal --

maybe not PC, but as a younger adult, I am very used to the word "gay" being used to describe something that is "bad" or lame or whatever.

I don't know how this came about, but I can attest to the fact that it has nothing at all to do with homosexuality at this point. I've been known to say it, even though I worry that it will make others uncomfortable, so I try not to.

It used to mean happy, then it meant homosexual, maybe now it means stupid?

Evolution of the language is inevitable.

[Misunderestimator]

16. Many people DO equate it with "being gay = being stupid"...

therefore... it DOES have that meaning, whether it means that to you or not. I'm glad that you worry about how it makes other feel. I, for one, am incredibly insulted by its use... especially by kids.

[hobo_baggins]

26. I'm an adult who has never equated being gay with being stupid

and if kids make that connection, teach them otherwise, they're kids, but I guess you think we should stop using that word for the children!

[Misunderestimator]

27. Not the word, the phrase. But you go ahead and use it.

Don't care who you offend.

[Katherine Brengle]

44. I understand, but...

I stand by my previous claim that the majority of people who use this word in this way do not mean it that way.

Those that do are bigots.

I don't know what else to tell you.

[Misunderestimator]

51. And I understand that... but it doesn't really matter how people mean

it... when the origin is derogatory towards gay people, and when gay people are offended by it. :shrug:

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

53. You see, I'm afraid I must disagree

I feel that how people mean is 100% of the issue. Words are only words without intent. As I said in a previous post, I don't use the word, but I have friends that do. I have two gay friends who hang out with them, and it doesnt bother them because they understand my friends meanings.

Granted, personally, I try to have some thick skin whenever it comes to words, so verbal insults rarely bother me in the slightest. But as I said, I don't think it's our words that matter. Language is mainly used just to convey our emotions; It's our meaning that makes a word 'mean' 'offensive' or 'nice' or 'complimentary', not the word itself. At least this is my opinion. For the record though, I do think it's a bad idea to associate gay with stupid because I would rather not offend people if possible, because I know many aren't as thick skinned as some when it comes to language

[Misunderestimator]

54. I had a friend whose father used the n-word to describe black people...

she would defend him by saying that he had many black friends and that he was good to them, and never called them that directly. But unfortunately, that's not good enough. Words are powerful. If you hear from gay people, like myself, that a phrase like "That's so gay" is offensive to them, then you should be more sensitive to it and recognize that it's offensive whether you mean it that way or not. That's called being enlightened and learning from your fellow human beings.

It is NOT just our meaning that makes something offensive... it is also how our words are perceived by others. My sister is married to an Arab, and when they got married 25 years ago, both my brothers called him a towelhead, among other derisive terms... all in good fun, and he pretended not to be offended by it... but you can't argue that it IS offensive, whether or not my brothers meant it that way.

It has nothing to do with being thick-skinned... Believe me... as a gay woman, I have an incredibly thick skin. But I also find it important to enlighten others when they use offensive words.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

56. I can see your point

I personally believe it is always best to be enlightened and informed if possible. Your right, words can be powerful, and because of that, I don't think that they should be used off-handedly. And your right, how they're percieved is important. Especially if your using a potentially offensive word. But, I'm afraid I still think meaning is the most important part. If someone means to use it to be offensensive, then screw them.

Personally, I think not stopping to think is a form of meaning in its own way. Perhaps, trying to covnvey your own ignorance or stupiditiy? I really don't know, I can't really say. I mean, I do my best not to hurt someone's feelings, but as a straight, well-off, white male, I've never had to endure anykind of slurs, so I really can't relate.

The only example I can think of is kind of lame, simply because the word has been so desensitized (I'm not sure if thats the right word here. . .)to the public (my grammar sucks too, I know) is 'stupid'. I know this used to be much more offenseve. But even though it is still a 'mean' and 'cruel' word, its more of a term of endearment for my guy friends and brother. I mean, betweeen us, the phrase "Damn man, you're retarted" has a similar meaning to "I love you man". Only way I rationalize that is because we aren't using the word to be mean.

And now I'm rambling. I hope this made some sense, and if it didn't, please ask me about something you may be unsure about before getting upset. I've made it all day without pissing someone off, so I dont wanna stop now :). I'm in a haze at the moment, so my language skills are not at their best.

[Misunderestimator]

57. None of this upsets me... We're having a discussion.

Sounds like you're a reasonable person... and can probably see the difference between phrases and words used between friends (like if my friends call me a dyke)... and words used in complete ignorance... or even with absolute disregard to how they might offend others. Sure, if something is not meant derisively, it's not as bad, but if it's known that someone will take something that way, whether or not it's meant that way... and enlightened person would choose not to use it.

You didn't piss me off... takes a lot more than that. :hi:

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

59. Very true

Glad to know I didn't upset anyone. It seems to me like we're more or less at the same conclussion here, so. . .yea, I'm gonna go take a nap now. Nice to talk to you though :hi:

[Misunderestimator]

60. Likewise.

Sleep well.

[Sugar Smack]

61. "I think not stopping to think is a form of meaning in its own way"

:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :yourock: Welcome to DU.:hi: :loveya:

[Misunderestimator]

62. Yes, good quote.

[Sugar Smack]

63. I love posters like this.

He really is very articulate and kind. Receptive. I almost told you and your "buddy" there to "get a room" but I refrained.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You know, your buddy the actor. LOL! Now THAT was a good thread. LOL!

[Misunderestimator]

64. Yeah... too bad it "was disappeared."

:rofl:

But at least he was too.

[Sugar Smack]

65. LOL!!!!!

That other thread-the one about Condi, Laura & Harriet- I'll bet it's still around. :rofl:

That one made my day. I didn't want to interrupt it.

[Misunderestimator]

66. Yeah... that was a classic.

:D

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

40. Eminem uses the word faggot in his songs

and claims he's not referring to members of the gay community. You could use the same evolution of language argument to defend his choice of words, albeit less convincingly.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

48. Let me add here

that I think Eminem is full of shit.

[izzybeans]

17. Whitebread college kids use it too.

[ThomCat]

18. My sister says it all the time.

It's one of many, many reasons why we don't talk much.

Hopefully she'll outgrow it. Hopefully she'll outgrow a lot of things. She has become a very judgemental, hateful neocon.

[jukes]

19. i really hate that

so denigrating, & the excuses don't mitigate the fact that it perpetuates a negative stereo-type.

PRETENDING that you mean something differant does not take the sting out.

[Mad_Dem_X]

20. As a kid in the late 70s/early 80s

My friends and I used the word "queer" to mean "stupid."

[Debi]

21. My son's friends have tried to use it in our home

I just respond (sarcastically) with "That's so Lutheran" (one of the boys is Lutheran), they look at me funny and I explain that we don't say that in our home (They get to say quite a bit in our home, even gotten away with some four letter words uttered in excitement - but not derogatory comments to a select group of people). They try to explain that it doesn't mean they don't accept gay people and I tell them THAT is exactly what it means. I just keep going, hoping they (and their peers) will grow out of it.

[LuckyLib]

67. Good response. I work with teachers who never allow that

phrase to be used in their classrooms. What is intended, what the meaning really means to 17 year olds is irrelevant. You don't say it because, interestingly, it's taking a perfectly reasonable word that describes a particular group of people and attaching pejorative meaning to it. Period. Isn't it interesting that both queer and gay have been "adopted" in that way? And then everyone denies that there is any hostility involved? Yeah, right.

[Arkansas Granny]

22. Don't ask me, Grannie. I'm still confused as to why gay means

homosexual.

Word usage changes all the time. When I was younger, gay meant happy, faggot was a bundle of sticks, straight meant not crooked, dyke was something held back water and so on.

[JackBeck]

23. Homosexual is pejorative

The word emphasizes sexual activity and is used by right-wingers as a means to degrade gay people.

Gertrude Stein is listed as the first traceable published use of the word, as per wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

41. Well, doesn't "heterosexual" also emphasize sexual activity?

:shrug:

[JackBeck]

43. True, but how often do you hear "heterosexual lifestyle"

used by the talking heads?

RW-ers use "homosexual lifestyle" as a negative catch phrase. That's why I think we hear more of the mainstream use the terms "gay" and "straight", instead of "homosexual" and "heterosexual".

GLAAD just gave props to the AP.

Please see:

http://glaad.org/media/release_detail.php?id=3869&PHPSESSID=b5cb1f31430147e40b2d64d0282600e9

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

47. Ah, good point.

[Katherine Brengle]

45. THEN WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO SAY???

Okay, I understand your comment. But what is the PC phraseology now?

(I am being genuine--I am completely lost right now...)

[jeanarrett]

24. My kids use it all the time and I lecture them each

time--they get all frustrated and tell me the same thing--that's not what it means, MOM! It means stupid--I said where did you come up with "gay" to mean stupid? Who knows?

On edit: It drives me nuts when they use it--and they get the lecture whether they've heard it ten times before or not.

[nutsnberries]

28. same here. it's frustrating because

it really is like a new, different meaning to them (like gay was happy before) BUT since gay is STILL homosexual means that it's like saying *homosexual is wrong or stupid* and that makes me... :nuke: They don't think it thru like that and I hope that by pointing it out repeatedly they will be more conscious of the ugliness of it.

[xmas74]

31. Take an empty coffee can

and make them put a quarter(or, for some kids, a dollar, depending on their allowance) every time they say it.

Money's a pretty good motivator to make them stop saying it.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

49. My mom did that when I was little and I had to put a quarter

in there everytime i cursed. . .

[xmas74]

70. I used to tell my parents to keep my allowance.

I knew I'd never get it w/ the way I swore.

[jeanarrett]

73. My dad fined us all the time

for leaving the lights on, to not putting tools back when we were done with them (this actually elicited a much heavier punishment after the first offense), etc. I'm 44 years old and still turn the lights off and put my tools away! Those lessons really stuck. For swearing, we just got beat. :eyes: This was the same dad who would make us unstack five full cords (not face cords!) of wood, move them over EXACTLY three feet and restack them. Then come and measure and it better be right. That was for really serious crimes, though.

[Texaroo]

34. There IS a pop culture etymology to this use...

Originally, a decade or so ago, the use was absolutely perjorative. In the original sense, it meant "overly flamboyant," specifically as in Rip Taylor, or Jack from Will & Grace, for the young'in's. I think it has moderated with the current teens - I have even heard gay teens use it as a descriptor of something stupid. I would never use it, but I am a few decades removed from teendom.

Think of how the term "screwed" is used. When I was young, that word, as in, "You're screwed, dude," would get you to the principal's office. And was censored from TV (even SNL). Now, you hear it on commercials.

[begin_within]

25. Why not just reply with, "Oh ick. That is so straight!"

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

50. The problem with that is it doesnt do anything.

I'm a teenager who doesnt use the word as in stupid, but i have teenage friends that do. Quite simply it doesn't offend me or them if someone responds to us with "Thats so straight". Why? Because, we know they aren't using it as discriminating against heterosexuals just like with my fridns saying "Thats gay" isnt discriminating against homosexuals. If they want to use "Thats so straight" as a term for stupid, go right ahead. It wont bother us any.

While I think it's a bad idea to asociate (SP?) gay with stupid, I don't think that people are planning on stopping anytime soon, and the only way to deal with it is just to turn the other cheek and understand they arent trying to be mean.

[xmas74]

29. I don't advocate violence against children

but if my daughter ever comes home and says that to me I will be sorely tempted to smack her.

[Rowdyboy]

30. My partner (in his 30th year teaching high school) hears it constantly....

In the halls, cafeteria etc. Sadly, its one of the few non-onscene phrases the students (and I use the term loosely) use.

[smitty]

39. Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember when

"gay" meant happy or carefree. Words constantly change meaning or implication, so children are using "gay" now to mean "lame" or "stupid", even though they know its other usage. Too, they will use the word "gay" just to annoy adults.

[Misunderestimator]

32. "That is SO gay" is the same thing as "That is SO faggy"

And anyone using that phrase should be ashamed of themselves.

[tjdee]

35. ICAM.

It really bugs me when I hear it.

[arwalden]

42. ~

:thumbsup:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

46. I propose a more appropriate alternative...

That is so BUSH!

[Misunderestimator]

52. Now THAT I would support.

:thumbsup:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

58. Remember, Gay started out as meaning happy...

When I say something is gay, I don't meant it's stupid...I meant it as WEEEEE! Don't remember what comedian said it, but apparently it's not that big of a deal. I work with a few gay men, and they're always calling stuff gay.
Duckie

[no name no slogan]

68. If two gay people are using it between themselves, that's one thing

but if it's a straight person using it in a pejorative way to denote inferiority, that's another.

I've seen plenty of gay men use the term "faggy" when talking about other gay men, but they don't use it to infer somebody else is inferior.

IMHO it's similar to how African-Americans use the word "n****r" between themselves. But if a white person were to use it (even in jest, in a friendly manner) it takes on an entirely different meaning.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

69. I call my friend levi a bad gay man all the time...

It has nothing to do with him being inferior because he's not. The reason he's a bad gay man is because he wears black shoes with a brown belt all the time. And we always say that crap around each other. We know there's nothing behind it.
Duckie

[JackBeck]

71. I propose we ask "That's So Raven" to rule on this matter. n/t

[DS1]

72. I've known that version since the late 80s

[grace0418]

74. I'm almost 36 and that phrase was definitely in use when I was in junior

high and high school. So it's been around for while. Not that it's right (although I do have gay friends my age who still say it on occasion).

[NewJeffCT]

75. I've heard it many times, and not as "stupid", more "not manly"

When guys are hanging out together and one of them does something another might not consider the most "manly" of things to do, another guy would say, "that is so gay." The last time I really remember it was in relation to one guy saying how he & his wife had gone to see "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and how he had enjoyed it, then another guy said something like, "Isn't that a 'chick flick'? Man, you are so gay!" It was more to give the guy a hard time than truly questioning his masculinity.

[Misunderestimator]

76. Is that better? That they use "gay" to mean "not manly"...

Seems even MORE pointedly referencing gay people... gay men... in that context. Using "gay" as an insult... even if it is good-natured among friends... is still an insult, and it's still insulting gay people by equating gay as something bad... not manly... stupid... whatever.

[NewJeffCT]

77. I agree that it's insulting to gay people

I was just saying that I have heard it in that context.

[Misunderestimator]

78. Ah, cool, I misunderstood.