Can anyone explain why vanilla extract is $16.85 for an 8-ounce bottle?

[begin_within]

Did we invade the vanilla-producing countries or something?

[XemaSab]

1. I can't answer that

All I know is that saffron and cardamom are the most expensive spices. :shrug:

[begin_within]

3. Cardamom? I bought some recently and it wasn't expensive. Saffron, very.

[swimboy]

7. Saffron is a dried part of a crocus blossom

I grew a little of my own once. Saffron, that is.

[begin_within]

25. I have grown it too, but I couldn't really get it to color my rice....

[Sequoia]

Because that tsuami wipped out most of the crops

[MadHound]

2. Real vanilla has always been expensive

You can get immitation vanilla, but in my opinion the stuff sucks.

Perhaps I should start growing my own vanilla:shrug:

[swimboy]

8. They manufacture or process real vanilla in my town.

It's a great-smelling factory!

[MadHound]

12. I used to think that about bread factories too

Lived next to one for a couple of years, and at first loved the smell of fresh baked bread all the time. But slowly and surely, the smell became cloying and nauseating, just too much all the time. It took me a couple of years after that to really start liking bread again

Hope that doesn't happen to you, but you're right, that sounds like a wonderful smell to have wafting around.

[swimboy]

16. They switch up on different days. Some days are peppery

some are clove-y, some vanilla-y. The cookie plant is closing. I never got tired of the cinnamon baking smell. It depended on wind direction.

[MadHound]

17. Damn, where do you live, Candyland?

Vanilla, clove, cookies, cinnamon, wow, what a treat! I'd be hungry all the time. Glad you've got such an olfactorialy pleasing town. Sadly, the town I commute to has reached 100,000 in population, and is starting to acquire a city stench, smog, rotten eggs, etc smell. I didn't notice it a couple of years ago when I lived in town, but sense I've moved to the country my nose is now sensitized and I notice it all the time. And sadly, there are no bakeries or other good smelling industries in the town. Oh well, I still have wonderful smells every day out in the country.

[swimboy]

26. Hah!

:spray:

I didn't realize how good we had it here in Richmond, Virginia. Sauer's Spices and Extracts is headquartered in the city here. When I was little, you could still smell tobacco curing on South Side (reminded me of how raisins smell) but that has mostly gone away.

[mikeytherat]

30. You can still get the tobacco curing smells from the warehouses at

Semmes@Cowardin, especially in the summer.

BTW:
My first apartment in Stuart Circle was on the back of the building, and I had great views of the Sauer's sign from my dining room!

mikey_the_rat

[swimboy]

34. That's how we drove to church from West 46th Street

so I remember it quite well and still catch an occasional whiff.

[swimboy]

33. here ya go!

[LynneSin]

31. I went to college near Hershey - the chocolate smell got annoying

and to make it worse - the smell wasn't from the factories, the company pumped the odor into the atmosphere in order to get people to want to buy more chocolate

[sakabatou]

54. It'll take months if you want good vanilla for your own

If you want to grow it

[swimboy]

4. It comes from orchids, I think.

and they tend to be expensive as well.

[snacker]

5. My son got me some in Mexico a few years ago.

Is it a lot cheaper there? I've heard of other people who stock up on it when they take a trip to Mexico.

[AllegroRondo]

9. Its grown in Mexico.

and import duties on spices are pretty high.

[Left Is Write]

20. My daughter brought me some vanilla from her last trip to Mexico.

It's wonderful, and it was MUCH less expensive. It was either $6 or $9 for a nearly 34-ounce bottle.

[Whoa_Nelly]

50. Things to know re: Mexican Vanilla--Does yours contain coumarin?

Have lived in the desert Southwest (Tucson), and when in Nogales, would buy vanilla...it smelled yummy, had less of the alcohol odor and seemed richer. A few years ago learned it is not a good thing to use/ingest.

Here's why:


http://www.cloudnet.com/~djeans/Asides/coumarin.htm

Coumarin is found in many plants, including lavender, woodruff, and sweet clover; and also in strawberries, apricots, cherries, and cinnamon. Coumarin smells like vanilla but what little flavor it has is bitter. This may serve to repel some insects. It is found in high percentages in the tonka bean (Dipteryx odorata, Fabaceae (Pea) Family). Tonka bean extract is commonly used to adulterate vanilla in Mexico.
I have in my possession a huge bottle of vanilla that I admit to buying in Mexico for a ridiculously low price. It smells richer, and much less like alcohol than my little American bottle of vanilla. Apparently that's a good sign that it's not vanilla. The brand, Daancy, appears in an FDA Import Alert listing products that are subject to detention without examination due to coumarin content. (Meaning that it's really Tonka Bean extract.) I guess next time I'll know better.
Coumarin was banned by the FDA as a food additive in 1940, due to studies showing liver toxicity. There is also some evidence that it may be carcinogenic.

More at above link...




http://www.fooddomain.msu.edu/consumer_faq_safety.htm#6

QUESTION: Is Mexican vanilla safe?

ANSWER: The answer has not changed since the 1980's, tourists heading for Mexico to swap their U.S. dollars for drastically devaluated Mexican pesos may find some bargains to offset the high costs of inflation in our own country. But one "bargain" that isn't is coumarin extract, passed off as genuine vanilla extract, or put into real or artificial vanilla flavoring to give it more zing.

Many tourists from the United States fall for this South of the Border offering because it looks like a bonanza. It isn't. Coumarin, or tonka bean extract, may be displayed on a store shelf or at a roadside stand for as little as $1.50 a quart. When you sniff it, the stuff smells like real vanilla. It isn't. What's more, it could be damaging to your health.

The U.S. tourist buying such a product has no way of knowing how much coumarin may be present. It follows that the person who takes a little gamble that the amount of coumarin in the bottle isn't enough to be toxic is playing with loaded dice.

Source: Mexican Coumarin No Bargain, FDA Consumer, October 1983, FDA 84-1105.

[Left Is Write]

52. Well, I don't know...

The bottle claims the ingredients are pure vanilla extractives, water, and alcohol. I've been using it for two or three years.

[Whoa_Nelly]

55. It's required to say "Coumarin Free"

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/vanilla.htm

Courmarin
Coumarin is a the bad guy of the vanilla industry. It is derived from the Brazilian tonka bean from Dipteryx ordorata, a tree. The bean can be used to make flavoring very similar to vanilla. Sadly the concoction is dreadfully toxic and can cause liver damage and is a know carcinogen.

Coumarin is used extensively in synthetic vanillas manufactured in Mexico. The U.S. banned imports of the coumarin laced products back in the 1950's. Unfortunately the products still make their way into the U.S.

If you purchase any Mexican vanilla make sure it is clearly labeled "courmarin free".

<snip>
The other synthetic common in Mexican artificial flavorings is Ethyl Vanillin derived from coal tar.

[pitohui]

22. it isn't the same species

what you get in mexico is not real vanilla, it's fine, it's perfectly good, however if you are on blood-thinning medication you are supposed to use it very moderately if at all

the taste of the mexican stuff is fine though, real vanilla if you ever get your hands on it again for a taste test has a distinctively "musky" taste which is rather nasty if you're not used to it anymore

[pitohui]

29. a bit more on courmarin/mexican vanilla

Coumarin is a derivative of the tonka bean, which comes from Dipteryx ordorata, a tree native to Brazil. Some of the organic constituents that make up its flavor are similar to, or the same as, those in pure vanilla. Coumarin is frequently found in synthetic vanillas from Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean as it's cheap and it makes synthetic vanilla taste more like the natural. Unfortunately, coumarin is considered toxic, especially to the liver, and potentially carcinogenic, and has been banned from the United States since the 1950s. (Dicumarol, which is a derivative of coumarin, is the active ingredient in certain blood-thinning medications, and is legal in the United States.)

i'll retain my skepticism abt it being a so-called carcinogen but i'm pretty sure it's a blood thinner -- and a further trip around google so it is, it's the blood thinner curmarin for humans, the rat poison warfarin for rats since the rats bleed to death if their blood is too much thinned

no one is going to grab your mexican vanilla at the border but use in moderation is my advice

[dolo amber]

6. Because vanillas are wily little fuckers

[XemaSab]

10. I heard Cheney went on a vanilla-hunting safari and bagged 30!

:o

[Gormy Cuss]

14. LOL. That's not the way I heard it.

I heard that Cheney was hunting saffron and bagged 30 vanillas.
:P

[Misunderestimator]

15. They are really hard to catch...

And a bitch to milk.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snacker]

11. Recipe for vanilla extract:

Just found this recipe.

1.Split vanilla bean lengthwise with sharp knife
2.Place in jar with 3/4 vodka
3.Be sure bean is completely covered with vodka.
4.Seal tightly.
5.Let stand in a cool, dark place for 4-6 months.
6.Shake jar occassionally during the standing time.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. Because You're shopping at the wrong store.

:shrug: I got a 4 oz. bottle (the real stuff, not imitation, people who are going to post telling me that I must have bought imitation) for 6.85 last week at Kroger. :hi:

[blindpig]

23. For that kind of money you can get a liter in Mexico.

The right store is in Mexico.}( Travel expenses may vary.

[begin_within]

32. But the Mexican vanilla may be "watered down" with imitation vanilla.

[pitohui]

41. not "may be" -- "is" EOM

.

[EstimatedProphet]

18. Have you ever milked a vanilla bean?

[lukasahero]

19. Tropical storms and how the bean is produced

Vanillan comes from orchids (as someone above noted) which means they are not just expensive, but rare. Orchids can take a long time to produce seed so you're paying partially for the growing time of the plant as well as the ultimate product.

Also recent storms in the tropic have seriously damaged crops.

FYI - I just happened to be reading an article about vanilla in Cook's Magazine yesterday. FWIW, their tasters suggested that artificial vanilla extract worked a better in baked goods than real vanilla extract. (But nothing beats the bean itself.)

[pitohui]

24. ok i'm in agreement w. cook's magazine!

cool, i agree that with this conclusion --

their tasters suggested that artificial vanilla extract worked a better in baked goods than real vanilla extract

[lukasahero]

36. I love this magazine

They don't just tell you how to cook, they explain why. (I need to know the why's to remember the how's.)

[begin_within]

28. This must be why the imitation vanilla says on the bottle, "Will not

bake out or cook out." I have tried baking things with real vanilla, and the vanilla flavor does seem to get lost after the baking, while the imitation vanilla flavor seems to hold. But for uncooked things, like milk shakes, etc. I would assume the real would be much better.

[lukasahero]

35. I wish I could remember more clearly but yeah

they were definitely talking only baked goods and it had to do with how the flavor stood up to the cooking. Something about the alcohol content.

I should have paid more attention but I didn't know there'd be a quiz on it today. :silly:

[jpgray]

21. China white can be even more expensive

[Deja Q]

27. I'd rather ask what's in that imitation vanilla stuff...

[underpants]

37. Do you have any idea how many Mexicans it takes to squeeze a vanilla?

Okay that was uncalled for.

BTW- before gets all upset about this I don't have any problem with people coming to this country. The problem isn't that they are here the problem is that they are here illegally. The simplest solution is to make them LEGAL. Amnesty, letting them "off the hook", "rewarding lawbreaking" yeah yeah yeah whatever.

Listen here is the actual deal with this
1.it is a wedge issue and will be used to SCARE the bejeesus out of the white folks. Oh the other folks too. Talk about a trifecta you get the FEAR factor as well as separating the races. Howard Zinn was dead right about that.

2.There just MIGHT be someone who doesn't want them to be "tracked" and don't want anyone to know where they are and what they do and under what conditions and for how much. Got it? THAT is why they are kept illegal.

[crispini]

42. Wow, did you forget what forum you were in?!

:rofl:

[SOteric]

38. The two prominent growing places for vanilla pods are

Madagascar & the Bourbon Islands, and Tahiti. Madagascar has been plagued with fighting and groups who've been marching white people into the sea, and Tahiti has had a stretch of bad weather affecting crops of all sorts.

The prices have always been high on real vanilla. Good prices can still be found on real vanilla extract. I recommend a bit of online price comparing. I get a lot of my spices and extracts at SpiceBarn.com.

[LostinVA]

39. And, Cocoa-Cola has destroyed the lemurs on Madagascar because

of the Vanilla. For real. Because they need so much vanilla, the forests have been ripped down,a nd the little lemurs have lost their home. It's frigging sick. Yest ANOTHER reason not to buy Coke...

[pitohui]

40. on that note of cheer

sigh i am hoping to visit madagascar in the middle term and hopefully without being marched into the sea or without seeing all the little trees of lemurs replaced by coca cola signs

i guess i will have to post a trip report if i get back alive

i thought the big danger there was car accidents

for the record, i don't drink coke or pepsi or vanilla flavored soft drinks of any kind nor do i any longer use real vanilla, as i said above, to me, it's got a musky taste in there, vanillin is more clean and pure to these wicked taste buds

[LostinVA]

43. Poor little ring-tailed lemurs...

[riona]

45. because of an extraneous "1"

:yoiks:

[politicat]

46. Buy it here:

http://www.arizonavanilla.com/Store/index.html

I've bought large quantities of the B/C grade tahaitain for making my own extract with a high proof rum (tastes better than vodka) , and I buy the mexican ones when I need the actual bean. I also know where they're coming from. Two years ago, I made extract for the various bakers in the family, and the price worked out to about $.50/250 ml (and vanilla prices were about $65 a kilo, and I bought a kilo, so prices haven't gone up too much.)

You can buy Mexican vanilla extract that is NOT cut with coumarin or vanillin, but you have to read the labels. I used a litre that I bought in Calexico/Mexicali over the course of five years, but I don't live near the border anymore. So I make my own, now.

It's a myth that most mexican vanilla is actually coumarin, by the way. Vanilla and neutral spirits are very inexpensive in Mexico, and the beans that are not useful for export (which is most of them) are best used for making extract. However, Americans have incredibly high import taxes on many spices, including vanilla, and that drives up the price.

[Blue Gardener]

47. I order it from this website

http://www.corascreations.com/

You can get a whole liter of Mexican Vanilla for $19.95, and it's FDA approved. I haven't noticed any difference in quality from what you would get at the grocery store.

[begin_within]

51. Thanks

[Texaroo]

48. It's always been that expensive -

that's why my momma always bought the imitation crap. It's worth it for the real stuff. It does, in fact, come from a type of orchid.

[yellowdogintexas]

49. what brand ? McCormicks is about $6 for 8 oz, I think

Bear in mind you only use about a teaspoon at a time.

I buy the upscale vanilla at William Sonoma or Central Market for my fine baking. It does taste really wonderful.

[Missy Vixen]

53. The price supposedly spiked a couple of years back

I've also found great prices on real vanilla at Trader Joe's. Let's just say I like to bake.

Julie