Just a quick take on this whole immigration discussion

[anarch]

Everybody who isn't descended from Native Americans/aka American Indians please get the fuck out of this country. Go back to wherever your people came from. Thanks.

:popcorn:

[Misunderestimator]

1. Someone have a sword? I need to be split so I can go back to a couple of

places.

[anarch]

5. me too

I was gonna use a chain saw, though. You can borrow it after I'm done!

[Misunderestimator]

6. Thanks... that's probably more practical.

[BikeWriter]

76. I refuse to be split up!

[FarLeftRage]

2. Gee, I'd love to... but

I have a tiny bit of Shoshone in me... depite the fact that I'm of mainly Italian, French and Irish heritage.

[Deep13]

3. I have an absolute right to be here.

We do not hold the child responsible for the sins of the parents. Whatever acts of aggression my anscestors committed in the 17th century have nothing to do with me. Most Americans are native born. This whole we-are-a-nation-of-immigrants is a load of crap. Most of us are descended from immigrants, but are not immigrants ourselves. Most of our anscestors came to this country lawfully and did not sneak across the borded.

Besides, some of my anscestors were Indians.

[anarch]

8. yes, well, from now on we're going to hold the child responsible

for the sins of the parents. It's a Brave New World, so get used to it.

[Deep13]

14. No we're not.

So when are you leaving?

[anarch]

17. soon's I'm done with the chain saw

I decided to take care of some of my neighbors first, though. brb!

[LostinVA]

18. I have some bar oil if you need it...

[crispini]

21. LOL!

:spray:

[Thtwudbeme]

9. You cannot escape the concept of "original sin." Sorry.

it's kind of like trying to take yourself out of the food chain.

[Deep13]

12. Wrong

There is no sin, original or otherwise. I am only responsible for my own actions. White man's guilt is no different than the white man's burden (to civilize the world) in its rascist assumptions. Excactly which of my anscestors am I suppose to answer for? The Pilgrims? Those who fought the revolution? My anscestor who signed the Declaration of Independence? Those who came later from from France in full compliance with Federal law?

Given the history of this country, I probably have at least one Black ancestor. Under the "one drop" rule, that makes me Black. That means my anscestors were brought here by force.

Right now my action is to suggest you pack your sanctimonious bags and get thee to Europe.

[Thtwudbeme]

16. an island unto yourself, eh?

;)

You and Ayn Rand.

[Deep13]

19. I don't know what that means.

Who the hell reads Ayn Rand anyhow?

[LostinVA]

22. Tell you what, as soon as we quit keeping Native Americans in

Third World conditions, with institutionalized racism, and uphold the treaties like the Federal Courts told us to... THEN I'll agree with you about original sin re: Native Americans. But, until then, we have collective sin as a society on this.

This isn't being sanctimonious, it's being responsible.

[Deep13]

26. Yes, Indians need to be treated better today.

They should have been all along. That is not original sin, thatis what the country is doing now. Hell that whole genocide thing was a tad unethical. All I can do about that is be a responsible citizen regarding Indians as well as our fucked up foreign policy, callous domestic agenda, and everything else we are doing wrong. I voted, campaigned for and funded the good guys, but we lost anyway.

[Strong Atheist]

64. I can.

:evilgrin:

[Heidi]

4. I'm in _real_ trouble in that case.

When I come back to the US to visit my mama, will only the one-eighth Cherokee part of me be allowed in? :shrug:

[anarch]

7. Yes, but only 1/8th of you

But hey, that's better off than those people with only 1/32nd Native ancestry or something. They can barely put their toe onto the continent under this new policy.

[Heidi]

10. Actually, my whole body would be able to visit.

The Cherokee Nation is a sovereign entity within US borders, and 95 percent of my family lives within the territorial boundaries of the Cherokee Nation. :hi:

[anarch]

11. sweet! Well, you're in, then.

I'll have to check where the borders are for the Cherokee Nation...I think some of my family might be there as well.

[Heidi]

31. Northeastern Oklahoma.

:hi:

[LostinVA]

23. Yup, that's it -- but you can decide which part that is...

[Heidi]

32. Ha!

The Cherokee Nation most definitely _doesn't_ want the voting part of me. :blush:

Were you aware that although Cherokee law permits gay marriage and Cherokee culture long has revered two-spirited folks, the current chief sent the matter to the Judicial Appeals Tribunal? Chief Smith is _not_ one of my favorite people right now. :grr:

[enigmatic]

82. I'll raise you my 1/4 Ojibwa

And we'll come back together:)

[Heidi]

85. .

:hug:

[DS1]

13. The Native Americans kicked out the Druids, who have been here

for millions of years.

[Deep13]

15. the Druids? Nobody knows 'oo they were or where they...

...came from.

Wrong continent, though it is believed by some scientists that the American Indians displaced an earlier race. Doesn't matter either way.

[DS1]

20. Wrong continent?

Consider who you are correcting..

[Deep13]

24. Yes, there were no American Indians in Britian.

Besides, this is the guy who ordered an 18" model of Stonehenge for his stage scenery. It was nearly crushed by a dwarf!

[LostinVA]

25. People do know about the Druids, especially what "race" they were

You're also talking to a Neo one right now. As well as a proud descendant of the people from the Old Sod.

[Deep13]

27. Old Sod?

:shrug: Q'est ce que c'est?

[Chovexani]

28. DEY TUK ER JOBS!!

:P

[DS1]

29. Alright men! Back on the pile!

I love this place :D

[anarch]

30. hahahahaa!

:thumbsup:

[Deep13]

35. Huh.

You know, not everyone in this country is well, educated. It is a bit elitist to be making fun of how some people in the working class talk. It does not invalidate their views.

[Chovexani]

84. You do realize that's a South Park reference, right?

Oh wait, probably not.

[Deep13]

86. Guess I didn't see that one.

Pass the Cheesy-Poofs.

[izzybeans]

38. here you go

http://tookjobs.ytmnd.com/

[bigwillq]

33. See ya!

It was nice knowing ya! :) :hi:


****bigwill getting the fuck out of the country**********

[cleofus1]

34. i just don't see the problem...

so if a white guy takes your job it's ok? or is it that some people believe that "white culture" is "THE" culture of the US? and that the incoming "people" will bastardize the american societal structure (leading to the end of the world as we know it?)...and if the real problem of this type of immigration is just that it IS illegal...then easy solution...make it legal...no problem...can you say xenophobia...

[Deep13]

36. It has nothing to do with race or xenophobia.

The only reason people are not bitching about the mass influx of illegal Canadian immigrants is because it is not happening.

[cleofus1]

37. you just can't tell the canadians

becouse they blend in so well

[Deep13]

40. Guess, they totally hosed us, 'ay?

It's aboot time someone put a stop to Canadians sneaking into this country. We need to get our arses off our Chesterfields and sent those Francophonic hosers back. I'm sick of illegal aliens hanging around under my eavestroughs, pocketing my Loonies and refusing to speak the Queen's English. All these immigrant rights groups can grab a Molsen and a serviette and cry themselves to sleep. Telling them apart from us ordinary Americans will be difficult, 'ay?

Last time I checked, there were more native-born Mexican-Americans than there are illegal Mexican immigrants. We can't tell them apart because they blend in so well.

[cleofus1]

49. i don't know

i think it's ok if a mexican takes a job from a white guy...but boy does my blood boil when a canadian takes away a job from a white guy...it's just a visceral reaction... and for what it's worth...(as i've said before)...if some "julio" can take my job from me and do a better job for less money...well more power to him...hey...it's a "free market"!

[Deep13]

50. Fuck the free market.

I'm not willing to sell out the middle class or organized labor on the alter of capitalism.

[cleofus1]

51. commie....

by the way...the middle class and labor are the result of capitalism...and you would not like fucking the free market...it is very insensitive (it just lies there)....

[Deep13]

56. I disagree. I think they exist inspite of capitalism.

The few workers there are the more each is worth. Allowing the country to be flooded with illegal labor drives down wages.

I know you are kiddding about the commie thing, but when right wingers compare us to Stalin, it really pisses me off. It is as if there are no choices in the world except being slaves of Coca Cola and Walmart on the one hand and Stalin on the other. Governments have always regulated economic activity. That's what they do. Besides, the Soviet Union was an ultra-conservative government with power concentrated into the hands of a few. Socialism was just a pretense to keep the people in line.

[cleofus1]

58. well i disagree

but who cares really...what is it you believe in anyway?...and why do you feel so strongly about mexicans taking jobs...i guess i have to assume that a white guy taking your job would be ok with you?

[Deep13]

67. It's not Mexicans that bug me.

There are more Mexicans lawfully here as citizens and lawful residents then there are illegal aliens.

It is two things. First, it bugs me that so many are willing to excuse lawlessness because it involves poor people. It is axiomatic that hard facts make bad law. Some people in this society seem willing to excuse anything from governmental crime to misbehavior in children.

Second, is the unsustainable nature of our society. Our population has grown from 249 million in 1990 to 280M in 2000. The birth rate among native-born Americans is actually in decline (barely). The growth is due exclusively to immigration, most of which is illegal. At this rate we will be at 400M by mid century. Our economy depends on three things: cheap energy, cheap land and cheap labor. Rather than being aware of the real cost of how we live, we just keep consuming and consuming. Rather than manage our cities, we replace them with ever dwindling open space. Rather than being efficient with energy, we have a crazy straw stick in Arabia and South America. Rather than educating our own people, it is cheaper to import educated labor from India. Rather than allowing our own workers to make a decent wage with benefits, we import labor with no rights to pick lettuce. That way, the middle class can have cheap vegitables while the rich can still make a windfall. Of course each new person in America eats and uses power and has to live somewhere, so the system feeds on itself. We cannot keep this up and I don't want this whole country looking like the Northeast coast. Bush is already renting out national parks for logging and mining. We need to decrease our population, not let it grow.

The influx affects Congressional and electoral college representation too. Illegal aliens cannot vote, but they are counted for apportionment purposes. This gives conservative Southern voters disproportionate representation in Congress and the electoral college. Had representation not shifted to the South, Bush never would have become "president" because the red states would not have had enough votes. It is similar to the 3/5 compromise where Black slaves were counted but had no rights.

[cleofus1]

71. sorry but i can't agree with your conclusion

what does axiomatic mean anyways?

so what is your solution? i don't think you have one...that you care to talk about...how do you solve your problem...

[Deep13]

74. Axiom is a general principle or rule of thumb.

Proposed solution: think more, walk more, consume less and let the uber-rick keep less. For this country to demand more energy, more labor and more land is like a fat man who is bitching because he does not have enough Twinkies.

[cleofus1]

75. personally i prefer

ho ho's

[Deep13]

78. Drakes Funnybones...mmmmm...

I can't seem to get them in Ohio, but they have them where I grew up back East. It is like a chocolate Twinkie with a chocolate coating and what is supposed to be peanut butter as the filling. That and Orange Dry soda from Polar, also not available in Ohio.

[Deep13]

79. duplicate---deleted

[Wetzelbill]

41. oh it has a lot to do with it

you should see the racist stuff people say down here in AZ about Mexicans. I never knew it was this bad, I moved to Tucson four years ago, it was a shock to me. I'm from and Indian reservation, I know a little about racism, yet I have seen nothing like how racist the anti-immigration movement is. A group that has ties to the KKK goes around to border states and helps get anti-immigration legislation on ballots like Prop 202 in AZ. They stoke up xenophobia pretty shamelessly. I know a guy who works in homeland security, for the U.S. Customs, that guy says racist stuff about Mexicans all the time and he's a minority himself. Racism in this issue is not rare, it's pretty prevalent. There was a guy who got the Republican nomination for Congress in my neighboring district in '04, who was a blatant racist. He frequently used slurs like "Wetback" in his speeches and so on. He was so bad the local Republican party didn't endorse him. All he did was run on racism, he had no issues or anything. Ask him about education and he'd say "We need to get those damn Spics out of the country." Or his take on the Iraq War? "Send the Wetbacks home!" I do not exaggerate either. You should see some of the proposals the legislature makes, they're completely looney. The problem with the type of racism in this issue is people try to veil it as something else. It's become en vogue to say racist things since 9/11.

[Wetzelbill]

39. dammit, half of me has to leave?

that sucks. :)

[Redstone]

63. Half of me, too. Maybe someone can sew our remaining halves together?

No, that wouldn't work too well; I'm a lot taller than you, so the "redstzelbill" would walk funny because of having one leg longer than the other.

Redstone

[Wetzelbill]

81. that would be one badger fightin' sonofagun though

:rofl:

[enigmatic]

83. Hey, Heidi and I could make up for it

she's got 1/8 Cherokee and I've got 1/4 Ojibwa; maybe we can put them together and rotate who gets to come in! You go first, since you're the youngest;)

[Wetzelbill]

88. somehow that makes sense

:)

[ProfessorGAC]

42. As Soon As My Spacecraft Is Repaired, I'm Gone!

You humans are too primitive to be entertaining.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

43. Triple Post

Sorry, Don't Know Why This Is Happening!
GAC

[ProfessorGAC]

44. Triple Post

Sorry, Don't Know Why This Is Happening!
GAC

[Deep13]

47. We heard you the first time.

Primative does not mean deaf or illiterate.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. That's Been Happening To Me For Two Days

Almost every post hits three times! I can't figure out why!
The Professor

[cleofus1]

52. so whats the deal?

did you buy one of those triple guitar thingys...like in the last waltz?

[cleofus1]

54. you know like this one

[ProfessorGAC]

87. I'll Take It!

Boy, would that look cool hanging on the wall!
The Professor

[TheBaldyMan]

45. just one question, where will the Bush clan be deported to ?

:scared:

[Deep13]

46. Ape island. nt

[slide to the left]

53. I am married to one, can I stay?

[cleofus1]

60. everyone stays

just make the pie bigger

[Redstone]

55. Not so goddamn fast.

No pizza? No sushi? No Irish bars? No German-style beer? No red-haired women?

No, thank you. I'm not going back to corn and venison every day. I vote that everyone stays.

Redstone

[Deep13]

57. "I'm not going back to corn...."

We call it maize.

[Redstone]

59. Hey, consider the audience. I have to talk in the audience's language.

Right?

Redstone

[Heidi]

61. Plenty

of red-headed and sandy-haired Cherokees, Redstone. ;) I agree with what you're saying. :hi: I'd rather go vegetarian than support a system that exploits people, and in which the meat-eating public covertly supports a corrupt system by turning a blind eye to its own involvement in the problem. (I was as guilty as everyone else for 35 years, but not anymore.)

[JohnKleeb]

62. What the fuck am I supposed to do

Being multiethnic and all that.

[anarch]

65. well, they do say that we're all descended from one woman in Africa

if you go back far enough. Actually, I guess that goes for every human being on Earth...man, Africa's gonna be crowded if we push this policy far enough.

[JohnKleeb]

66. Isn';t Africa already crowded

I was talking indirectly anyway, of the four choices, I'd have, I'd take Ireland since I think I like its culture and wouldn't nessecssarly have to learn a new language to fit in there.

[anarch]

69. yah...thank Jeebus it's not Scotland, where you would have to learn

a whole new language.

[JohnKleeb]

72. right and I'm Catholic too

so the Scots would be probably hassling me over that, I am kinda joking about that since there are a lot of Scot Catholics.

[Deep13]

68. She must be tired!

[no name no slogan]

70. And send them Injuns back across the land bridge to Asia

NORTH AMERICA FOR THE BISON!!!!

[cleofus1]

73. don't you know that the "indians" are native to north america

they came out of a hole in the ground somewhere near santa fe...

[no name no slogan]

77. That's preposterous

next thing you're gonna tell me that we evolved from monkeys.

Everybody knows darn well that we came to this planet millions of years ago when the evil galactic overlord Xenu transported us here on space-faring DC-8s.

:dunce:

[Deep13]

80. I ain't descended from no ape!

Where's that luggage?