I've just been denied credentialing by my professional board.

[intheflow]

:cry:

I went before my ministerial credentialing board this morning and got a "Thanks, we think your ministerial but you couldn't rotely answer questions about historical dates and minutia of our polity, so you're welcome to return another time, but for now, no thanks."

I really am just posting for sympathy, I didn't brush up on the history and polity for the board, but at the same time, they didn't seem to know or care that I'm living in a tent in Mississippi, the only UU with any ministry training working on the Mississippi Coast. To me there's a difference between being able to rattle off answers to factual questions that are easily looked up, and doing the work of ministry. Ministry is much harder, imo. So I'm just pissed at myself but also at them for being legalistic.

:cry:

Please gimme some love, Lounge Lizards!

[merh]

1. Aw, sweetie, I was thinking about you all day.

Sorry the asshats don't recognize that there is more to being a minister than the ability to memorize historic minutia.

:hug:

What you are doing here is far more important than anything they are doing, sitting on that board.

:loveya:

[intheflow]

4. Thank you, Dear Friend!

:hug: :loveya:

And you're right... they are asshats. What is an asshat, anyway?

[merh]

12. LOL

# Asshole or arsehole (outside the U.S.) is a term referring to the anus. It is generally used as a profanity in expressing deep contempt for someone or to describe a particularly abrasive person.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshat

When are you coming back, we need to have the pizza and beer at the femansion. :hug:

I truly hate politics. When the dogma overshadows the true spirit of purpose and the efforts, one would think the religious leaders might realize that they have a problem.

Matthew 25:
34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40 And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.

[intheflow]

19. Asshat = Asshole?

There was one member of the board in particular who had a face like an ass. He had a big hole in face that spewed most of the negativity about me to me. Henceforth he shall be known to me as Asshat Supreme. :rofl:

Thanks for the Matthew quote, too. You made me cry! :hug: (I'm such a sap!)

[merh]

26. Next time around you will have more time to study

You have been giving of yourself to a true ministry, you have been living the word.

No tears, just a realization that you have been doing what matters for those who truly need. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart. :hug:

:pals: :loveya:

[Debi]

2. How about a hug?

Can you do some studying and go back and try again?

[intheflow]

6. Yes.

To both the hug :hug:

and that I can go back again next year. :dunce:

I just graduated after being in school for 7 straight years, I'm ready to do the damn work already! (Oops, swore there, not very ministerial. :( )

[Debi]

10. We're all human. We all have faults

can you intern or help pastor while you wait? Good work experience if nothing else :shrug:

[intheflow]

16. I've done my internship.

Still have to do a last bit of education called "clinical pastoral education," which is basically a student chaplaincy. Thought that would be the thing that got me hung up, if anything. They didn't even seem to know I hadn't done it yet. :crazy:

[Love Bug]

3. Aw... you'll do better next time!

Hell, I don't even know what "polity" is, so you're already one step ahead of me!

:hugs:

[intheflow]

8. Apparently, neither do I!

LOL!

Polity is basically how the church conducts its internal politics. Politics = frustration for me, both nationally and in my denomination.

[BikeWriter]

13. Polity is a general term that refers to political organization...

Polity is a general term that refers to political organization of a group. It is often used to describe a loosely organized society such as a tribe or community, but can mean any political group including a government or empire, corporation or academy. It is also used to describe religious political organizations, particularly Christian. Subtypes of polities include hierarchical, presbyterial, and congregational.

Aristotle described a polity as rule by the many, who are neither wealthy nor poor, in the interests of the whole community. He believed it to be the ideal form of government somewhere between oligarchy and democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polity

[XemaSab]

5. That's too bad!

Hopefull it goes better next time! :hug:

[intheflow]

9. Thanks, Xema!

Did you ever chose your online boyfriend? Did it turn out to be me? Now that I don't have to devote so much time to studying for this (for now), I'd have some time to devote to you! :P

[XemaSab]

14. I never did!

:P

[LynzM]

7. Dude, that totally sucks.

I agree with merh, there is much more to ministering to people than knowing history! Good grief! :hug: Keep on doing what you're doing, and I hope it goes better next time!

[intheflow]

11. Thanks, LynzM.

:hug:

Love your Emerson quote, it's one of my favorites. He was a Unitarian minister, you know. If only they had asked who said that quote, I would have been all over it!

[LynzM]

37. Cool, I didn't know that!

See, you taught me something *grin*

I love that quote, as well! :hug: back at ya!

[Maddy McCall]

15. I hate those kinds of hoops.

What you DO doesn't matter. Just so you can jump through the hoops.

:hugs: friend.

[intheflow]

21. Yes, it the academic and religious equivalent to saying,

"Dance, monkey! Dance!"



I don't want to be a dancing monkey!!!

Thanks, Maddy. :hug:

[hfojvt]

17. gotta love those credential hoops

NOT.
That's too bad.
Did you know that yesterday was MC Hammer's birthday and that he is 44 now?

[intheflow]

23. Get out!

That's my partner's birthday, and he was 44, too! Not to mention, he sings "Hammer Time" all the time. Hmm. Must be some kind of comic connection because he didn't know it was Hammer's b-day too.

So you see... I really do learn something very day. Inspite of what that #&$^%* board thinks!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. I'm sorry for your disappointment

but usually (in my life) when I am denied something for some reason, something better comes along.

Don't know why...it just happens.

[intheflow]

24. Thanks, TG.

It's helpful to be reminded that it usually works that way in my life, too! :hug:

[Boojatta]

20. Perhaps they be swine? Might you be able to cast your pearls elsewhere?

[intheflow]

25. Well, swine they may be.

But denominations are limited for those of us called to non-Christian ministry, so they get my damn pearls whether I think they're deserving or not.

I'll just have to pass next time and then work to subvert the dominant paradigm from within. BWWHAAHAA :evilgrin:

[Squeech]

22. Sigh

UU's walk the walk better than just about anybody, and then scrupulously fail organizationally.

Within Boston city limits there are four churches that identify as UU. One of them (which was the one where I got married, not at all coincidentally) is called Community Church of Boston. It's an explicitly activist church, and has been for nearly a century. They have an open pulpit, where they invite people who aren't UU (and may not even profess a religion) to speak, especially activists. Their reception hall is called the Guatemala Room, and it's decorated with agitprop art. It's a pretty cool place, and I'm not generally comfortable inside a church.

The 2005 directory listing all the UU congregations in the country omitted to mention that it exists-- a state of affairs apparently engineered by the other three churches in town.

Anyway, I think the work you're doing is more important than the credentials. And I have a :hug: for you if you want it.

(And props for the poster above quoting Matthew. I want a bumper sticker that reads MATT 25:40.)

[intheflow]

27. Thanks so much, Squeech.

I think I know that church. When I was in Boston in the late '80's/early '90's, there were five churches that identified as UU, but I remember one was kind of treated as the re-headed step-child. I'm sure it must be Community Church. I remember hearing it described as a secular humanist-only church, and so I stayed away. But if it had been described to me as an activist church, I would have been there with bells on. The UUs talk a good activism game, but when it comes to putting feet on the faith, denominationally they usually don't support the folks who are walking the talk.

I appreciate your supportive words and the hug, my friend! :hug:

[Shine]

28. I'm so sorry, my friend.

:hug: That's a bummer. I wish you well.

btw, I LOVE your turtle tao symbol. :thumbsup: I love the Wisdom of turtles....

[intheflow]

29. In some Native American cultures

Turtle represents the earth. My turtle tao is a reminder to work to keep the earth in balance.

Not that I expect Cheney or anyone on his secret energy commission to ever get that concept, but then, what concept do they ever get except exploitation? :grr:

Thanks for the hug! :hug:

[intheflow]

30. self-delete

Oops!

[Shine]

33. Yes, I know. Turtle is one of my totems this lifetime.

May we create Balance beginning in our own hearts.... :toast:

[intheflow]

31. This thread has run it's course. Time to go drink margaritas!

Thank you all for your warm thoughts and support. I feel much better now! :grouphug: I love the Lounge Lizards! :loveya:

[usedtobesick]

32. You know how I feel about this since I am sitting right behind you...

Your passion and love for people can never be doubted, even the weenies see that. The work you are do now is proof of your call and your heart and soul. I love you babe!

Remember what Emmerson said (a good UU boy said)

what lies behind us
and what lies before us
are small matters
compared to... what lies within us!

:loveya:

[merh]

34. Happy belated Birthday!

You tell her, UTBS!

She is doing exactly what she is supposed to be doing and I know my life is better because she is and I am just one of hundreds.

:grouphug: :loveya:

[RevCheesehead]

35. Church polity is a bitch.

They just want to make sure that you know it cold... or, at least, you know where to go to get answers.

Did you have to submit papers ahead of time? That's what the Methodists do... 3 separate papers, on 3 topics: call to ministry, theology, and preaching/worship. Then we had to take an entire day, and appear before 3 committees, who basically tore into us until we were reduced to tears. I think sometimes that they did that, just to see how we'd react. And it was so much fun, we got to do it again, 3 years later, for Elders Orders.

I remember sitting with way too many friends in seminary who didn't make it their first time through. DON'T LET IT BREAK YOUR SPIRIT!!! And do NOT let the board make you question your call to ministry.

I'm sorry you had a rough time of it. Please know that I'm here, if you want to just talk over stuff, or complain, or whatever. I know the agony of those damned hoops - and yeah, we sometimes get tripped up. (my battles came later - in real ministry - and that was awful, too.)

Hang in there!

:hug:

[intheflow]

38. Thanks, Rev.

Yes, I had to submit essays on call, theology, and "an essay that cites one personal example, one sacred text, and quotes one theologian." (I chose MLK as my theologian, and the Tao Te Ching as my text.) I really hope they dont' make me resubmit the essays, tha's just busywork BS.

I think what is hardest for me--apart from the fact that I think pop quizes on easily researched questions are dumb--is that the most dogmatic board person on attack mode had been one of my heros. I'd read quite a bit by him, and I admired the personal strife he had overcome to become a denominational leader. Now I just think he's a jerk, and I sure as hell don't ever want to meet him again. He didn't pay attention to the sermon I preached, but took offense to many parts of it. I'm glad they recorded the session and got a copy of my sermon so they can see in writing that his biggest beefs weren't legit--he apparently just copped an attitude about me right off and didn't pay attention to what I was saying.

I know the Methodist process is much worse. Having gone to a Methodist seminary, I know a lot of people who cried before they even went before the board. I will try to not be discouraged, although it's hard today to think I'd ever want to subject myself to that kind of demoralizing process again. Thanks again for your wonderful support! :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

48. One thing I learned from the BOM

(Board of Ordained Ministry) - it is filled with a bunch of whiny, self-important people, who are more interested in impressing or intimidating their colleagues, than they are in encouraging and supporting new pastors. They need to remember that they are Paul, needing to offer encouragement and support to Timothy.

I went through hell with Deacon's orders, in the preaching committee. I had one guy totally rip me to shreds. It was so awful, that I was reduced to tears. Later, I gave a copy of my sermon to my preaching professor, asking for his honest feedback. He read through it, and simply wrote "I have no problem at all with what you've written." Thank you, Dr. Lischer... he kept me going, when I wanted to hang it all up and quit.

You know the funny thing about that? One of the first things people say that I do very well is preaching. Go figure.

[intheflow]

65. My SO said much the same thing.

He thinks these boards are made of administrative weenies who can't hack serving in real world congregations. I'm not sure about all that--many of these people are currently serving churches--but the administrative weenie part seems right on the nosey!


And of course, as UUs, they may have never read Paul at all. :)

I'd love to hear you preach sometime, Rev. I'll bet your're killer in the pulpit!

[LaurenG]

36. I'm so sorry intheflow

You tried so hard. :hug:

[intheflow]

39. Thanks, OhioBlues.

I'm a hug whore tonight. Loving the hug! :hug:

[NMMNG]

40. That just doesn't sound right

Choosing form over substance. Anybody can memorize dry facts, but it takes a person of real heart and dedication to go out there and walk the walk.

You're doing it the right way, even if you don't have the "papers". :hug:

[intheflow]

44. Thanks, Buffy.

It's not every minister who gets such encouragement from an atheist. I'm honored you replied! Thanks for da love. :hug:

[NMMNG]

54. I'm an atheist, not a jerk

Despite the reputation many give atheists. People like you live religion the way it should be lived, instead of the way it has come to be lived--one big hypocrisy.

Keep up the good work. :hug:

[northofdenali]

41. They are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

And there'll be a higher power to make sure they see that.

Meanwhile, all the good karma from the northland to you - and huge :hug::hug: as well. I'll keep you in my heart.

[intheflow]

45. Thanks, n.o.d.

Good karma and huge hugs appreciated from one so pissed off. :P

Just teasing because I've never seen you on the boards before, but happened to notice you in the above referenced thread right before I saw you had posted in mine. Thank you so much for the hug--and a chance to make a new friend!

:hug: :pals:

[northofdenali]

51. I've been around since '02 but don't post a ton -

and new friends are always welcome! :pals:

[KitchenWitch]

42. I am so sorry!

that bites.

[intheflow]

46. That's reality. And as evryone knows...

Thanks for the sympathy, KW! :hi:

[MoonRiver]

43. Best of luck to you!

I'm going through my own work related hell, so I can relate. Take it easy. It WILL get better. :hug:

[intheflow]

47. Best of luck backatcha!

May the good karma you send me return to you tenfold in your own work related hell. :hug:

[Rowdyboy]

49. A thought from America's greatest writer, Mark Twain....

"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained"

I'm sure they're good people, their priorities are just a little screwed up. They'll get it straight, eventually. In the meantime, let a fellow Mississippian thank you for the work you're doing....

[intheflow]

58. I didn't realize you were a MS boy, Rowdyboy!

I assume you're farther upstate? I hope Katrina's tornados spared your home.

Thank you so much for the flowers! They're beautiful! :loveya: And thanks for the encourgement. :hug:

[Rowdyboy]

70. One branch of my family moved to Jones county in 1819......I'm just

north of Jackson now, in Canton. We had 80 mph winds from Katrina but thats about it.

I have the utmost respect for you guys who're trying to survive down on the coast. You're not getting the support you deserve and it pisses me off. While the legislature fights to outlaw abortion, and caves to the guv on food sals tax, you guys are getting the shaft.

[Whoa_Nelly]

50. Sympathy and love to you, intheflow

As one of my greatest heroes once said:

"We can do anything we want to do if we stick to it long enough. "
-- Helen Keller



You have shown you can face the board once, so you will be able to do it again!

:hug: to you, intheflow.

[intheflow]

59. I like that Keller quote!

One of my favorite Helen Kller quotes is "Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all." I will dare to face that board again!

And thanks for the hug, my photo friend. :hug: I always love it when I see my photo family in other forums!

[Joe Chi Minh]

52. Perhaps, you should have told them that the lack of concern for

punctilious accuracy that you feel, seems to have been shared by Jesus, who almost seemed to parapaphrase the Jewish scripture when he quoted from it.

I can't even remember now which quotations/paraphrases of scripture by Jesus I had in mind. On the other hand, the best evangelicals, who are very good, seem to set great store on quoting chapter and verse.

But I'm pretty sure the passages are there to see. Will try and find examples tomorrow. Dates? That's really too bad. Such footling worldly triviality.

[intheflow]

60. Yeah, well, the UUs don't put all that much in store with what Jesus said.

And it probably wouldn't have don me any good to get flippant with them. It's a good thing they can't read minds, and also a good thing I have a good poker face. Because in my head I swearing like a sailor. :)

Thanks for the encouragemnt, though. I likek to think I have more in common with Jesus than with administrative pricks. :hi:

[Joe Chi Minh]

68. Yes, I get your point, but it's nice to muse on what they should be

told.

Another point worth making - in a less fallen world, anyway - would be that perhaps they should seek to espouse Christ's own priorities a little more intelligently - instead of those of the Pharisees, whom he repeatedly criticised so fiercely - adding "Go away and find out the meaning of the phrase, 'It is Love, not sacrifice, knowledge of God, not holocausts I desire.'" If "love is the fulness of the Law, and upon it hangs the whole of the Law and the Prophets, as stated by Jesus, about where do they consider memorising historical dates would figure?

Anyway, intheflow,

Every best wish in your de facto ministry.

[gristy]

53. So study like mad and blow them away next time!

And in the meantime, you get one of these: :hug:

[intheflow]

61. Oh yeah.

I'll study like for a test--pass it with flying colors and then forget it all. :rofl:

Thanks for the hug gristy! :hug:

[bertha katzenengel]

55. UU? Legalistic?

Universalist Unitarians? (forgive me if I mangled the name) -- is this the group you're talking about?

If so, I am flabbergasted. My goodness.

I was once on a membership board at an evangelical free church, and I turned a woman away from membership in our church because I wasn't convinced she had accepted Christ as her savior. I hope for forgiveness for that pettiness every day of my life.

The board that reviewed you brings that to mind. Gee, I wonder why.

I am so sorry. :grouphug:

[intheflow]

62. I think Rev Cheesehead nailed it, above.

UUs in general aren't leglistic, but somehow the ones that get on these boards are the ones who like to lord their power over others.

I'm sure the woman you turned away has gotten over it by now. Extend to yourself the grace you've extended to me and stop worrying about it. Youse good peoples, bk! :hug:

[bertha katzenengel]

69. Dammit, Flowie, it's too early to weep over kind remarks. How dare you.

;) :pals:

[Blue_In_AK]

56. Their loss, ITF...

We ALL know that.

[intheflow]

63. Thanks, Blue.

:hug: :hug: :hug: I love to feel that love from Alaska! :hug: :hug: :hug:

[wain]

57. You're doing the real work you were trained to do

In the long run you'll pass the boards plus you'll have the more valuable life experience. While it would be nice to have both now, you made a choice of what is most important to you. Sounds to me that you made a wise decision. The boards can always be passed; opportunities don't always wait for us to be ready.

Persist!
:hi:

[intheflow]

64. Thanks so much, wain!

I really appreciate your ecouragement, and especially your cheerfully waving "Persist!" :)

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[wain]

71. Thanks for the DU welcome, intheflow!

Ten or twenty years from now, having long since passing the boards, you'll be glad you took a non-traditional course of ministering.

I wish you well with much success and fulfillment in your life's work.

:)

[clyrc]

66. Sorry to read this!

The world needs as many UU's as possible, including Ministers! I live in the UAE, and you can't imagine how much I wish there was a UU church here.

You will do better next time, and remember that it's worth the effort!

[salin]

67. Sending some love

some peace, knowing that you will get through the year and make it a very interesting on in the doing - and that you will go back and make it through easily next year.