Hey Guitarists

[Roon]

I know a guy who plays guitar and he is really good, world class. Anyway, I have this song that I really enjoy and I wanted him to learn it so we could sing it around the campfire this summer. He tells me HE doesn't do cover songs and the he only plays his stuff. I was so shocked but a barely was able to say "you should learn cover songs if you want to entertain"

He got mad and I just dropped the subject.

I think any decent guitarist should play a cover or two to entertain the masses. What is so terrible about playing a cover?

[Fenris]

1. Ummm...nothing is wrong with playing covers.

That's all I do. :shrug:

[Roon]

3. Well

Come to the cabin with me this summer and bring your guitar!!! :o It's in the Pike National Forest and there is no other cabin for 1 mile around. I am gonna take pictures of it because I am planning a DU meet up there! :-)We barely escaped a huge forest fire recenlty and it squeezed all the wildlife into this green strip where the cabin is. It's something else...

[WritingIsMyReligion]

2. He sounds elitist, to be totally honest.

Nothing wrong with covers. However, many musicians do pride themselves on their original compositions.

:shrug:

[Roon]

4. I don't get it either

You start belting out covers and the room you occupy is suddenly bouncing and swaying, how can you not like that?

[Xipe Totec]

38. Well, If someone takes the time to learn an instrument,

he should get to chose what he wants to play.

just MHO.

[ghostsofgiants]

5. He got mad because you insinuated that his originals aren't entertaining..

A lot of musicians would just rather play their own stuff, and if someone says "fuck that, we want to hear something someone else wrote" it can easily be taken as an insult to the person's own material.

Not saying there's anything wrong with covers, I enjoy a good cover every now and then.

[Roon]

6. If I were a guitarist

<and i am not, i am a drummer> I would attract people's attention with some covers, then play my stuff here and there. That is common sense. I don't know, perhaps I am dabbling into an area I don't understand....but that is what I would do.

[ghostsofgiants]

7. Some do that, some don't.

Like I said, I personally have no aversion to covers, but there's also the risk, if you decide to play covers, that people will only pay attention because of the covers. That's happened to a number of local bands that I know. They got popular doing covers, but when they did originals, no one cared. Doesn't happen all the time, but it's a potential risk.

[Roon]

8. Thank you!

That was the answer I was looking for...I appreciate it. I personally think it's best to play a cover here and there to grab attention to yourself,once you got their ear, the world is yours!

[leftofthedial]

9. players shouldplay whatever they want

but sitting around a campfire with friends is a pretty weird place to get all pure about covers.

that smacks of untenable pretentiousness








P.S. fuck the masses.

[ghostsofgiants]

10. Pretty much. I missed the campfire part...

Being uptight about covers in a casual setting like that is just silly.

[Roon]

24. Do you play?

[leftofthedial]

26. that's what I do.

[Roon]

37. Do you play covers?

[leftofthedial]

41. it depends on the context

I play regularly in a group that does about a third originals and about two-thirds covers.

I'm forming a new trio that will play all covers.

But I'm a professional songwriter and most of my performances are all originals by design--songwriter nights and the like.

[bertha katzenengel]

11. I don't blame him for any of that except his attitude. What an asshole!

If he doesn't want to play others' songs, so what. But he doesn't have to be such a prick about it to you or to anyone else. Sorry you had to experience that.

I'd learn a cover for you. It might not be clean (I'm not that great) but I'd learn it well and you could sing to it. :shrug:

[Roon]

13. It's all about entertaning the masses

I hate to say it....but if someone started playing their own shit during a gathering, most people would ignore it.

But if you play a cover before you play your own stuff, you got their attention..

[Rabrrrrrr]

45. Fuck that - for entertainers, yes, that's what it's about.

Speaking from my own perspective, I don't give a shit if I get an audience's "attention". Either they listen to my music (or look at my art), or they don't. If they like it, that's cool. If they don't, then fine. I certainly don't want as an audience a group of people who want to be entertained, or who project onto me the stuff they're willing to listen to.

Fuck that bullshit.

Art is not a goddamn commodity, though of course, in America that's pretty much all that gets done - music to be "consumed". Assholes.

[Roon]

48. Yes, it's art

and I appreciate that. This thread has taught me a lot about the musical arts. But,like I said in another post, this guy gets upset when the audience talks. I'm a drummer, not a musician, so.....

[DS1]

12. You know Russel Crowe?

[democracyindanger]

14. You ask him to play "Stairway to Heaven"?

'Cause then his reaction makes perfect sense.

[Roon]

19. No! I did NOT!!!

I would never be that rude!! lol

[Beware the Beast Man]

15. Wow. Sounds like a jerk.

Though I prefer original music myself, sometimes an artist can do a cover tune great justice.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

16. That's ridiculous that he won't learn ONE song.

So, this guy takes his career so seriously he won't play A cover even around a campfire. Hmmm, sounds like a bit of a jerk.

On the other hand, your statement that, "you should learn cover songs if you want to entertain" implies that his originals aren't entertaining. No biggie, just pointing out that we musicians can be a little touchy. :D

[NNadir]

17. This reminds me of the time I had to learn to play Dan Fogelberg's

"Longer."

My best friend at the time was getting married - he really wanted me to play at the wedding - and his wife-to-be wanted that song.

So I did it.

I sang "Longer than there's been fishes in the ocean..."

The marriage didn't last "Longer than there's been fishes in the ocean..." It made it about eight years and the divorce was very bitter.

I hated the song from the getgo, although I have always played covers because there are many beautiful songs. I played that particular song because I was a friend.

But I've known lots of musicians with bizarre attitudes about themselves. Generally I don't like them personally, even if they're good. But often it is necessary to divorce the art and the artist.

[rbnyc]

18. If he doesn't want to play covers, why should he?

I have no problem with his reaction. He's just being honest. This is his art. Maybe it feels terrible to him to play covers. Just because someone has talent doesn't mean that they owe anybody anything.

[cleofus1]

20. reminds me of that joke

how many guitar players does it take to screw in a lightbulb

just one...the guitarist gets up on a ladder holds up the bulb...and the world rotates around him...(rimshot)

[rbnyc]

27. LOL

What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?

Homeless.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. What's the difference between a machine gun and Kenny G?

a machine gun can only repeat itself 156 times

[rbnyc]

33. HAHAHAHA!

THAT's good.

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Phillip Glass.

Phillip Glass Who?

Knock Knock

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Love it! How do you get a rock guitarist to turn down the volume?

Put a chart in front of him :D

[NNadir]

31. That's a joke about bass players.

[misanthrope]

22. I understand his viewpoint...

...although I might not totally agree with it.

What if someone asked a poet, "I love Robert Frost. I don't want to hear any of your stuff but can you recite some Frost for me?"

Or if someone told a writer, "I love Steinbeck. Why don't you put your story aside and write 'Of Mice and Men' for me?"

Or if someone told a sculptor, "I love Michelangelo. Can you create 'David' for me?"

Or if someoone told a painter, "I love Van Gogh. Can you paint 'Starry Night' for me?"

To many artists, to engage in such is being untrue to themselves and their muse. However, most true artists realize that to imitate in aim of exact duplication is chicanery and all one could hope to do at their best is merely interpret anyway. Art is about finding your own voice.

[Roon]

25. Bravo!!

Great post!!

[rbnyc]

28. Thanks.

You put it much better than I did.

[DS1]

40. Yes, but in this case, the 'arteest' is refusing to even know who

Steinbeck, Frost, Michelangelo and Van Gogh were.

Therefore he's an egotistical little shit with much to learn :-)

[Telly Savalas]

46. It's a campfire sing-a-long.

A musician would have to be amazingly insecure about their artistic integrity to refuse to indulge some friends by playing a recognizable song so that everyone could participate in the fun.

If strumming "Michael, Row Your Boat Ashore" for one evening can compromise one's artistic voice, then it'd have to be a pretty weak voice to begin with.

[Roon]

50. Great post!

This is what started all of this. I have a cabin in the woods and we used to have a lot of fun singing around the campfire with my cousin and his guitar. My cousin is gone now and we haven't sang around the campfire for a few years. I just would love to do that again. I guess if I felt that strongly about it, I should have learned guitar instead of drums.

[misanthrope]

54. Good point...

...You know, years ago, I had a group of friends who invited me to get-togethers and always asked that I bring along my guitar.

At first, I always politely obliged. After a while, they would ask that I break it out and play some stuff. When I complied, they would say that they didn't care what I played so I would play what I felt like expressing. Inevitably, they would start asking that I play some other stuff with which they were more familiar.

After a year or so of this, I started noticing that they began to grant me less and less leeway with what I felt like playing and insisting that I trot out the old warhorse sing-alongs "from the get-go." It got very repetitive, sometimes having to repeat the same tired songs multiple times within the same evening.

I began to feel as if I were being viewed as a "monkey on a string." Was I their human jukebox, a cost-free way for them shout the same trite stuff over and over without having to pay a band?

It grew old for me. Next time I was invited to a party, I attended without my instrument. After all, by this point, they had even stopped the formality of asking me to bring it, just assuming I would. When I was asked "Where's your guitar?" I would politely say that I forgot it.

After a few times that I attended sans instrument, they just stopped inviting me altogether. I guess the proof was in the pudding, that they never enjoyed my company all that much and were just using me for free entertainment. No big loss in my book, then.

If the guitarist in the original post felt that way about playing sing-alongs, then he should have declined to bring his instrument altogether.

[kedrys]

21. Even Clapton played covers from time to time

Like his version of that little J.J. Cale ditty, "Cocaine". Best. Cover. Ever.

[WCGreen]

23. Simple.....

He's not an entertainer......

[no name no slogan]

29. What a wanker

The only way you learn to play is by covering other people's stuff.

I've been playing guitar for 25 years. I've played in cover bands (where all we played was other people's songs) AND in bands where we only played originals.

There's nothing wrong with playing other people's music. It doesn't make you any less an "artist".

[rbnyc]

35. There's always more than one way.

Although I do play a couple of covers, I taught myself how to play by writing my own songs.

A great way to get better is to play with people who are better than you, but you don't necessarily have to play covers.

[no name no slogan]

36. It's easier to play something you all know when you play with people

Almost every band I've been in (and I've been in dozens) have all started by playing a cover. It's easier to assess a musician's skill by playing something you are all familiar with. However, my current band pretty much came together to play a couple dozen songs I wrote a while back.

Another good way to get better is to play in front of people. The old addage holds true: for getting your act together, one gig is equivalent to ten practices. Even if it's just a few friends it does wonders to tighten up your sound.

[Roon]

49. I get your point

Anyone can play a cover, but it takes someone special to hold the listeners attention with his own stuff. I see where you are coming from. Great post!

[rbnyc]

57. Thanks, Roon.

My husband, however, is one of those really, really special people--an artist AND an entertainer. He has great originals, but he loves to please. He'd learn any song for your campfire. He plays guitar, and about 11 other instruments and can learn any sone in about 10 minutes. He blows me right out of the water.

[misanthrope]

43. Dave "The Edge" Evans...

...said in an interview I once read that he developed his style by purposefully refraining from listening to other guitarists.

[no name no slogan]

59. What he says and what he does are two different things

He nicked a lot of his sound from Steve Fellows, guitarist/vocalist for The Comsat Angels. U2 opened for the 'sats during a 1979/80 UK tour, where the young Dave Evans was exposed to Fellows' echo-laden guitar sound-- and liked what he heard enough to "borrow" from it.

Another reason he "purposefully" refrained from listening to other guitarists was quite simply that he couldn't really play guitar when U2 started, which was not uncommon in the late 70s. Bernard Sumner (Joy Division) and Steve Jones (Sex Pistols) could hardly play a chord when they started, either.

[HEyHEY]

32. What a priss n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

39. What kind of music?

Playing standard tunes and improvising over them is what most jazz guitar players do most of the time. The late great Joe Pass once remarked that he was giving a guitar clinic and some of the young rock and roll players who wanted to study jazz guitar with him asked him the opposite; they wanted him to "jam over G". Pass said he doesn't "jam over G"; he only plays recognized tunes, and improvises over the chord structures in them.

[Roon]

42. Hmmm, it's hard to say

Just your basic rock, I guess. He loves the dead and phish, but of course he never plays their music.

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. Maybe he prefers to be an artist, not an entertainer.

Speaking personally, you need to respect his artistic vision, not push yours onto his.

I don't paint Matisses or Picassos; why should he play covers to "entertain" you?

Either you respect his art or your don't.

I think any decent guitarist should play music he or she is interested in, and people should decide whether they want to listen to it. What's so terrible about listening to original fucking music?!

Christ.

[Roon]

47. That's fine

I was discussing this thread with a mutual friend of ours, I guess one night he got on the mic and chewed a couple of people out for not listening. Didn't Roger Waters used to do stuff like that? lol
Waters, now there is a guy who never has to worry about playing covers.

[izzybeans]

51. My guess is he tries to hold the world up with his noodley appendage

Do his guitar solos turn into Eddie Van Halen wank fests? There are many world class guitarists that do not know when to say when. All the ones I know like this also find their wanking to be too spectacular to share with others. So they refuse to cover another song. Instead they wank away.

[specimenfred1984]

52. Why Don't You Learn to Play Guitar

instead of insulting your friends for not following your orders? Then, you can entertain everyone around "the campfire".

Other than Boxcar Willie, how many great entertainers actually do performances around a campfire?

[kid a]

53. nothing - sounds weird to me

[driver8]

55. I think it would be much more fun to sit around a fire and sing songs,

than sit around and listen to someone "entertain me" with their songs. But hey, that's just me.

[Orsino]

56. If you play a cover, you might actually get *laid*.

Some guitarists are unwilling to risk their virtue.

Also, if you only play your own compositions, no one can ever accuse you of playing them wrong.

[ProfessorGAC]

58. Pompous Nonsense

A good song is a good song. It doesn't matter who wrote it. Jeez, Lennon & McCartney did covers! So does Tom Petty, and Springsteen, and a host of other songwriters. They can just recognize a really good song when they hear it, even if it requires some different twists and turns to make it in their own way.

Your friend needs to take pill!
The Profressor