WHOS GOT A GUN?!?! I WANT TO PUT GD OUT OF ITS MISERY!!

[LSK]

THIS IMMIGRATION CRAP IS DRIVING ME CRAZY!!! ITS A FUCKING ROVE DISTRACTION PLOY!!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[_testify_]

1. Close the door!

You're letting the crazy in.

[KitchenWitch]

2. I know

I am avoiding it like the plague.

[SeattleGirl]

3. Just make sure you don't shoot me, LSK!

I know, there's lots of crap going on over immigration, Jill Carroll, etc., etc., etc. But I try to be one of the voices of reason over there. It's a challenge at times, I tell ya!

[LSK]

5. well there are pockets of sanity over there

But only in threads I start. :P

[Crazy Guggenheim]

4. Listen to him It will make you relaz.

[TK421]

15. I guess I'll check out GD and see what you're talking about...brb

[TK421]

16. Uh, nevermind.........

:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: Yeah....it's pretty much a bore-fest there....I think I'll stick to the lively lounge conversation here...yup

[lpbk2713]

6. Yes it is.

Smoke and mirrors.

[Jamastiene]

7. You will need silver bullets over there...

and a necklace made of garlic and possibly a wooden cross and some holy water. You probably should repeat "The power of Christ compels you." whilst putting them out of their misery too.

It's a good thing it is already called "GD," because that is exactly what I end up saying every time I make the mistake of going over there.

[merh]

8. Yes, it is.

But some of us were able to chase some of them away.

And I was tag teamed!

Uncovering deep seated bigotry or moles is hard work.

I need a cig! :smoke:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x818889

[LSK]

9. yeah I saw that one

I got caught up a little last night in the mess, but im restraining myself today.

[merh]

12. Oh, but you have to check out

posts 106, 109, 112, 113 and 122,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=818889&mesg_id=819619

I couldn't have set it up better if I planned it, it just worked out and then they left. :shrug:

I was even accused of "swiftboating". :crazy:

[hfojvt]

17. set what up better?

actually, I agreed with QC's definition of strawman, although I think that word is used kinda like it has magical powers and the first person to call strawman automatically trumps the other person's arguments.
His/her definition matched the "logical" definition listed in wikipedia unlike the legal definition which is not relevant to those of us not trained as lawyers. Perhaps, however, the logical definition is not relevant to those of us not trained as logicians. :crazy:

We could actually exchange alot of knowledge on this board about this issue if only we could do so without all the name calling and sniping.

edit: why do I always forget the question marks

[merh]

19. Sorry, I enjoyed the fact that the poster used an attack tactic

against me and I was able to defend myself against his tactics. QC was incorrect to apply straw man to my posts or position on the topic and his use of the term was an attempt to do exactly what, by the wiki definition, he alleged I was doing. I agree with you that it is often given "magical powers" and that once someone has alleged a "straw man argument" they think they have legitimized their position and claim victory.

The poster did not provide a "logical" definition, he simply provided his interpretation of the term and my posts did not fall within his definition. I did not present the other's argument in a weakened form, I simply presented a logical solution to the illegal issue, which is different from the definition QC provided and different than the varied examples as provided in the wikipedia definition.

One can set up a straw man in the following ways:
1. Present the opponent's argument in weakened form, refute it, and pretend that the original has been refuted.
2. Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.
3. Present someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.
4. Invent a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, and pretend that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

It is interesting to note that the above are not steps to set up a straw man, but examples of "straw man" tactics. Also I find it interesting that you rely on wikipedia over Merriam Webster or the legal definitions I provided to the others.
The definition of wikipedia itself tends to make one question it's reliability.

Wikipedia (IPA: or ) is a multilingual Web-based free-content encyclopedia. It exists as a wiki, and thus is written collaboratively by volunteers, allowing most articles to be changed by anyone with access to a web browser and an Internet connection. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia

And this definition contains the reasons why wiki's reliability as a source is questionable.

However, there has been controversy over its reliability and accuracy. Common points of criticism are vandalism, inconsistency, uneven quality, unsubstantiated opinions, systemic bias, and preference of consensus or popularity to credentials. In addition, some critics have suggested that Wikipedia cannot justifiably be called an "encyclopedia", a term which (it is claimed) implies a high degree of reliability and authority that Wikipedia, due to its open editorial policies, may not be able to maintain.

I provided definitions from recognized reference sources, sources that could be used if writing a research paper or a treatise. I was not the one putting forth a weakened argument or distorting the position of any one of the 3 or 4 posters that debated me. I stuck to a very simple position and challenged the others to think in terms of solutions rather than harping on the problem alone. I never once disputed that illegals weren't illegal. I did not begin the demeaning, petty attacks, I was the one defending myself against them. I do agree with you that the exchange of ideas should take place without name calling or sniping.

[hfojvt]

21. able to defend, or able to counter-attack?

After MJ called you a nanny, you wrote "Sorry you don't appreciate an intellectual challenge and prefer to be petty."

That is a counter-attack as much as a defense.

And in your reply to me here, you seem to attack me, and then to launch an attack at the credibility of Wikipedia. "Also I find it interesting that you rely on wikipedia over Merriam Webster or the legal definitions I provided to the others."

It was your Merriam Webster link that lead me to wikipedia for the "logical" definition, whereas it only gave the "legal" definition. Apparently Merriam Webster and I agree that wikipedia explains it quite accurately and understandably. The legal definition only applies to lawyers practicing law. As a non-lawyer, I am not expected to know or use that definition.

Anyway, because I do not want to do a whole lot of research (about who said what)I only have one point. From my POV, QC was correct in his/her definition of strawman argument as it is commonly used (outside of the legal profession). I am not commenting on whether the rest of what QC said was warranted.

[Ariana Celeste]

10. Wish they could figure it out

Well, I take that back. Seems some of them know but they are largely in the minority and jumped all over.

[liberaltrucker]

11. I got a Glock 9mm semi-auto

Need to borrow?

:rofl:

[Heidi]

13. I'd suggest the "Hide Thread" options, but

you'd probably get carpel tunnel syndrome from hiding all of those immigration threads. :eyes:

[hfojvt]

18. is there a

"hide forum" option?

[DanCa]

14. How about some TNT?

Cause I aint got no gun, I aint got no knife, but dontcha start no fight.

[Maestro]

20. I know

I've been gnashing it out as well. Some people... :eyes:

[Hand]

22. Gun? Try one of these...

you may need it. :rofl:

[AmyDeLune]

23. Here, he'll take care of them for you...