Can a non-Catholic go to a Catholic ordination & Mass of Thanksgiving?

[hopein08]

See, I'm not Catholic but I went to a Catholic university (graduated in '04) and while I was there I got to be good friends with one of the seminary students. He graduated a year before me and we didn't keep in touch, as I would have liked to. But he went to the Baltimore seminary to finish his studies. On Friday, I got an invitation to the ordination ceremony for him and another guy and an invitation to the Mass of Thanksgiving.

So, is it appropriate for me to go even though I'm not Catholic? Should I go to one event but not the other? Do you give or send someone a gift for their ordination?

I'm terribly conflicted and confused. So I decided to turn to the ever reliable DU for any advice you could so kindly give!

Thanks so much for even just reading this!!!

[Gormy Cuss]

1. Of course you can go.

Support your friend on this great day for him. Just don't participate in any part of the ritual that makes you uncomfortable or that you know is off limits (like communion.)

I don't know what's appropriate in terms of gifts on this event but if you know of some small item that he would appreciate, give it. Can't hurt.

[Squatch]

2. Communion is not "off limits"

[Midlodemocrat]

3. Actually, in the Catholic Church it is 'off limits'

for a non Catholic or one who has not made their First Eucharist to receive Holy Communion.

[merh]

5. And you know, that is one of the hardest things to deal with for

me and the Catholic religion or any other organized religion.

If we, as Christians, all believe that the body of Christ is found in communion and it is through the receipt of the communion, this sacrament, that we receive graces and confirm our believe and our acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Savior, then why do we limit the experience, the grace, to Catholics?

My religion is mine, my faith is mine. The sacraments as offered that are symbols of my religion and the graces of God, through his son, Jesus, are mine to accept, when I need them and/or they are mine to reject. To tell a Catholic that they are not supposed to receive the Eurcharist if they are divorced and living with another or if they haven't been to confession in over a year or if they have eaten within the hour seems wrong on so many levels. I need his graces, I need the reminders, I need to recommit for me, not for the rest of the congregation, not for the priests and/or the rest of the faith, but for me. Participation has to be more than just participation, it has to have meaning and that meaning is personal.

:rant: So, I will jump down now. Just had to vent.

[Reverend_Smitty]

6. At my church they have loosened up a bit...

they don't enforce the confession or divorce rule any more. But the communion to non-Catholics is still a no-no

[merh]

19. Same thing at the parishes I frequent.

n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

7. I think sometimes divorced Catholics come to terms with

their divorce and seek the sacraments anyway. At least, that has been my personal experience.

As for the Eucharist, it is such a powerful symbol of the Church and what sets the Church apart, I don't think it would be appropriate for people who weren't Catholic to partake. The whole issue of transubstantiation versus consubstantiation is very, very powerful and requires a very deep commitment on the part of the individual.

I do know many Catholic Churches that are trying desperately to be inclusive so as not to put off people like myself who see a great many flaws in the hierachy and the edicts that are handed down. I hope this is a trend that will continue well after my departure from this earth, because it is the only thing that will save the Church.

[merh]

18. They transubstantiation versus consubstantiation makes my

head hurt.

When discussing the Eurcharist in these terms, one tends to leave out the most important thing "FAITH".

I understand that some members of the faith do seek the Eurcharist when they aren't supposed to, it is still against the teachings.

What happens if a non Catholic receives Communion? Nothing, no lightening bolts, no communion guards escorting you from the building, no public humilation. How we participate in church or at mass is between us and God.

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. Not in all Catholic churches - it is always at the will of the priest.

I've been to Catholic churches that the priest has welcomed everyone to partake. We had an ecumenical service a few years ago at a Catholic Church, and not only was everyone welcome, our female minister was part of the eucharistic celebration and she also served people.

I think the restriction, at least in America, is getting looser and looser and looser.

[Squatch]

25. Exactly. My experiences are with military chaplains

who are Catholic. One of our chaplains routinely invited Catholic and non-Catholic soldiers to partake of the Eucharist.

I've also been invited to serve as a lay minister, though I have not had any of the formal training.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Yes, it is.

Non-Catholics cannot take communion at a Catholic church.

[Rabrrrrrr]

23. I answered above, will do so here, too - not in all Catholic churches.

I've received communion at catholic churches.

It depends on the priest, and fewer and fewer of them, at least in America, are caring about the wall around the communion table.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. Thanks for the info.

It's been a long time since I was a practicing Catholic, but I remembered they had the communion "rules" on the back of the hymnals.

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. Yeah, they used to be real strict. I remember a couple of my cousins

married Catholics back in the 70s, and they had communion at the weddings with the ol' "FOR CATHOLICS ONLY!" crap from the priest.

[begin_within]

8. Episcopals allow you to take communion on your first visit, but not Cathol

ics.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. It is because of transubstantiation versus consubstantiation.

There is a world of difference between the two.

[begin_within]

11. Darn, I'm always getting those two mixed up.

[Midlodemocrat]

12. LOL.

:thumbsup:

[LostinVA]

13. Correct

[LostinVA]

10. It is off limits to non-Catholics, and Catholics with a mortal sin

unconfessed.

But, you are 100% welcome to go to any Mass and any special celebration.

[Squatch]

20. Negative. Non-Catholics can take communion

however, for those who are conscious of grievous sin and/or have not partaken of the sacrament of First Communion, they're just eating a piece of bland bread.

[nini]

28. Sorry.. you're wrong on this

Because Catholics believe this is the body of Christ it's not just eating a piece of bread.


Non Catholics are not welcome to take communion in the Church.

[Rabrrrrrr]

30. As I've said elsewhere in here, it depends on the priest and the church.

Lots of Catholic Churches are now offering communion to non-Catholics, on mostly a "don't ask, don't tell" basis, welcoming all who are present to the table.

[nini]

38. Ok.. I just talked to my nephew who is in the seminary

No... the Church does not condone this. The fact it is being done does not make it an accepted practice in the eyes of the Church/Vatican. Kinda like birth control and all those other things we make our own rules for here in the States.


To be honest - I agree with giving communion to anyone who believes they are receiving the body of Christ. However, priests going out on their own and allowing this is different that it being part of the old rules (of which there are many).


So, non-Catholics should not be allowed to receive communion in the Church as a matter of principle. To do so conflicts with Church doctrine.

[Rabrrrrrr]

41. Priests do lots of things that conflict with church teaching,

especially in America.

You're right, technically non-Catholics, except in extreme conditions, should not receive communion from a Priest or in a Catholic Church.

But, realistically, it happens a lot because a lot of priests don't agree with church teaching.

And I applaud those who are willing to open the table to any who wish to come, and who are willing to go against church teaching when they feel it is wrong.

[nini]

42. Yep, I'm discussing the technicality.. not whether it makes sense

:-) So, we actually agree.


I'm Catholic and I don't agree with all the teachings. I think for myself here which is what most American Catholics do in regards to these issues - which is why some priests don't turn away anyone who wishes to receive communion.


My brother-in-law is Lutheran and goes up to receive communion. I think it's great because he believes in what he's doing and the same principles the Church teaches. No harm no foul.


But to say it's an accepted rule from up high is inaccurate.

[Squatch]

32. Then my eyes and ears must have deceived me

cause I swear I have heard and seen priests invite all in attendance to partake.

[nini]

39. Being it is done does not make it Church doctrine

see my post above.

[Kellanved]

34. Yes, I have to present my Catholic ID card each time

IIRC, catholic priests are allowed to give the communion to non-Catholics, if asked. As long as they are not disvorced...

[nini]

46. There's a difference between going up to receive and it being..

an acceptable thing to do per official Church rules.


I'm arguing this based on the official rules, not whether some priests decide to bend them.

[DBoon]

49. Catholic ID card not always required

I heard stigmata were an acceptable alternate biometric identifier

(spoke by a lapsed Catholic waiting for lightening to strike)

[LostinVA]

44. No, they can't -- and even if an individual priest says okay

He can't do that -- just like the abortion thing linked to communion. You can't do THAT, either.

[Gormy Cuss]

14. Sheesh. I started a communion fight.

This is cranky Monday in the lounge.:+

[Midlodemocrat]

15. No fighting. Just discussing.

And, JMHO obviously, but I thought it was a pretty civil, informative discussion.

[Gormy Cuss]

Oh, I was kidding.

Forgot the smiley.:dunce:
It has been GD-like in the lounge this morning on some other threads.

[no name no slogan]

16. If you're a Protestant, bring kneepads

My first marriage was to a Catholic girl, and all the kneel-stand-kneel-stand was quite a workout. But at least it got me in shape for the booze-a-thon that the wedding reception turned into.

[Feron]

17. Non-Catholics are welcome at mass,

it's just that you cannot take communion.

When it comes to the communion part of the mass, I would just remain seated in the pew and wait for it to be over. Nobody will say anything or care if you don't take communion.

I've done it many times before and have never had a problem. :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. Of course you can go - even non-Christians can go,

especially if invited by the ordinand.

You might be asked not to share in the Eucharist, but on the other hand, they might not say anything about it.

It's nice to give a gift for ordination - stoles are good gifts for protestant clergy, I'm not so sure about Catholics priests on that, though. Or money, or a gift certificate to a book store. All clergy are voracious readers, and bookstore gift cards are good (one of the few times that I think giving a gift card is a good gift).

Or if he drinks at all, a really nice gift is a bottle of good scotch or bourbon or port.

[Bridget Burke]

27. Of course you can go.

Non-Catholics cannot take Communion--but many Catholics will not be taking Communion, either. See if you can go with someone who will give you a "play by play."

I'm sure a gift would be in order.

[Debi]

29. Non-Catholics receiving Communion? Yes and No....

http://www.catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp


<snip>

Possible exceptions

However, there are circumstances when non-Catholics may receive Communion from a Catholic priest. This is especially the case when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians, who share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments:

"Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned" (CIC 844 § 3).

<snip>

Canon law explains the parameters: "If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed" (CIC 844 § 4).

<snip>


and

http://www.holyangelscatholiccommunity.org/communion.htm

<snip>

Can non-Catholics receive Holy Communion in a Catholic Church?

Non-Catholics cannot receive Holy Communion in a Catholic Church except in very exceptional circumstances: firstly, they must be Christians and fully share Catholic beliefs about the Eucharist; secondly, they must need to receive the Eucharist and be unable to do so from priests of their own church; thirdly, they must ask to receive communion of their own free will; fourthly, they must be in a state of grace.

<snip>

[rug]

31. This is the definitive answer.

[Debi]

33. Are you making fun?

:shrug:

[rug]

35. Not at all.

I was going to google the Catechism but now I don't need to. What is the Eucharist and who can receive it goes to the heart of Catholicism.

[Debi]

36. I thought you were making fun as to my yes/no response

Although the 'rules' can be subjective as to whether a priest is going to say 'no' to a person who requests Communion (it truly is between a person and God as to what will happen to them if they receive Communion when they maybe should not have), there are very clear guidelines in the Catechism of the Catholic Church as to when a person SHOULD receive Communion.

I'm a divorced/remarried Catholic who did not get her first marriage annulled. I miss the sacrament/sacrifice of the Eucharist.

[CatholicEdHead]

37. That is correct, offically you should not

but there is no "ID Check" and as long as you are respectful and do like everyone else, espically if you are a visitor in a packed mass like this, NO ONE WILL KNOW. I am an Eucharistic Minister all the time and there is no way to check when you walk up. It is given to everyone who comes up.

[Debi]

40. That's what I thought - but isn't there consequences between the

receiver of the Eucharist, who maybe should not have received it, and the Almighty?

Maybe it sounds silly to non-Catholics but it's a pretty big deal to the guys over in Rome.

[CatholicEdHead]

43. To they guys in Rome it is a big deal

but it is a drastic difference between Rome and local communities. I know priests around here who encoruage non-Catholics to come up at communion at special times (like one huge funeral). He suggested giving blessings to non-Catholics but still welcome them.

Many Catholics in local communities see very little difference between them and other faiths (espically with other Christian communities). We are much closer than we think, though the head of the RCC (and any denomination) have their jobs, mostly from history/"tradition" to keep the walls up.

Since the RCC overturned "limbo" not too long ago, I think the "Almighty" sees little fault in fostering community between people.

[Debi]

45. The welcome at the church we attend is , "No matter where you're from

we're glad you're here".

(it's not a parish - it's a student center/mission - seems a little more open than the parish in town)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. You can always attend

Even my grandparents' uptight old-fashioned ultra-pre-Vatican II friends had no problems with them attending their nephew's ordination to the priesthood.

Receiving Communion is more iffy. (If you're not a Christian, I'm not sure why you'd want to.) Some parishes would say "no," some would say "yes, " and others would follow a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. :-)

However, if it's an ordination, the bishop will be presiding, and bishops are not known for being flexible on these matters.

However, you can certainly attend as a spectator.

I'm an Episcopalian, but I've attended Catholic, Jewish, and Buddhist services as a guest with no problems.

[Alleycat]

48. Of course you can attend