Turntable experts, need your help

[Rabrrrrrr]

I have an old (but new to me) Pioneer PL-518.

It came with an Ortofon VMS 5 MKII cartridge (two of them, actually).

Since I havea new stereo, I bought a preamp, the TC-750LC from http://www.phonopreamps.com

I set the system up, and fired up the turntable, and sound is indeed going into the stereo, and it sounds like an otherwise good signal is getting through, except that it is heavily distorted - the kind of distortion that comes when something is being overdriven somewhere.

I tried with a couple different albums, as well.

The pre-amp I bought has a rheostat to adjust the signal, so I tried turning it all the way down and all the way up, and the overdriven sound was still there.

I then, because I'm a scientist who explores all possibilities, plugged the turntable into the stereo without the preamp, and as expected had almost no sound at all.

The preamp I bought is for an MM cartridge. I just did a google search trying to find out what the Ortofon VMS 5 MKII cartridge is, but I can't find any information. I am thinking that perhaps the cartidge is a MC type, adn thus my pre-amp isn't the right kind, but I have no idea.

The guy I bought the turntable from said that it worked and had great sound on his system. Now, one nevre knows if a guy is trustworthy or not, but considering the care he took in packing the turntable and the excellent shape it's in (except a small crack in the lid), I think the guy is trustworthy.

One thing I've not tried is putting the spare cartridge into the system - I have never changed one before, and it's looks tedious and complicated, so I didn't want to try that unless I had to - and the guy who sold it to me said he has never used the spare one, and so has no idea if it works. Cost him $80 back in the 70s for it, though. Still has the price tag on it!

Which is why I come to you, the DU experts, to help me figure out what is wrong.

I have a new SONY system, and am plugging the turntable into the CD line.

[XNASA]

1. Is the turntable grounded?

I seem to recall that the green ground wire made a lot of difference. If the cartridge has no ground, then there's no telling what is going on. The cartridge has no reference.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. The signal coming out of the turntable is grounded,

but the turntable itself is not grounded (unless it is grounded by proxy through the signal ground; that is, the turntable does not have a grounded plug).

[XNASA]

12. The power cord is usually not grounded, but......

There should be a separate green wire that gets terminated on the receiver. Since you're using a pre-amp, that green wire might need to be terminated to your pre-amp or to your receiver, or both. It's a signal ground and if it's unterminated, then it might not have a reference.

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. Yes, I'm grounding the signal.

It's grounded on the pre-amp.

[johnnie]

2. What sony system do you have?

Are there other inputs? An aux. input maybe?

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. It's an STR-K85OP home theater receiver/amp.

No aux. inputs, only CD, DVD, 2 video ones, and one for tape.

[johnnie]

8. Did you try the tape input

Just for shits and grins?

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. I did - I tried everything, and the CD input for some reason

had the best sound.

Wjhich surprised me, because I thought the signal strength for all components was the same. But maybe not.

[johnnie]

10. Is the needle ok?

Is it seated ok and do you actually see the needle part of the needle? I know these seem like dumb questions, but I have seen some funky things with needles and before you go get yourself another pre-amp, I would check out the needle and cartridges.

Changing the cartridge isn't really hard, you just have to be careful.

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. I decided to believe you about changing cartridge -

and by God, it was easy! I thought I had to deal with those little fucking wires and all that shit, but I didn't.

I switched the cartridge, and it works like a fucking beaut!

And of course, Dark Side of the Moon is the first one to go on the table!

God it sounds nice!

[johnnie]

18. Cool!

I know what a bad needle sounds like..and it ain't pretty. Chances are the needle itself is worn or gone. That's pretty cool, not only did I direct to the place to get the pre-amp, but got you to change the cartridge..lol. And you said people who watch america's funniest videos were stupid... LOL

[Rabrrrrrr]

20. I did say that! You people are dumber than shit! I can't believe

you can handle a computer, let alone something complex as communication itself.

:P

Thanks so much for all your help!!

And no, you really aren't dumb.

[Swede]

5. Moving coil and moving magnet cartridges have different output voltages.

MM is much smaller so it has to be amplified more. If your preamp is for only MM,then a MC signal will be overdriven,clipping the signal.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. Yes, I know - hence the question in my post.

of trying to figure out if my cartridge is MM or MC.

I did a search, and I can't tell what kind my cartridge is.

[Spike from MN]

21. Nope. That's backwards.

MM has a higher output than MC. There is also a category called "high-output MC" which, like the name says, has a higher output. Cartridges in that category approach (and maybe even eclipse) the output level of a MM cartridge. If the preamp is MM, with a MC cartridge you will have to crank the volume pretty high to get any output which of course means you're also cranking up the noise level. A high-output MC generally will put out a high enough signal to work with a MM preamp. Not the ideal setup, of course, but it works.

[jmowreader]

23. Other way around, Swede...

Moving-magnet cartridges put out much more voltage than moving-coil cartridges.

[mainegreen]

6. Your probably right about having the wrong pre-amp.

MC sounds like crap through MM.

[mainegreen]

11. Did some creative googling. Looks like your type is MI so

it should work with MM.

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. OK, call me a doofus - it works fine now. I switched cartridges.

The other cartridge works perfectly -

now, does this mean that the other cartridge is shit, or that maybe just the needle is shit?

I have NEVER owned a good turntable in my life, so I know nothing of cartridges.

My last record player was a tandy/realistic all-in-one 8-track unit I bought the summer of 1978.

[B3Nut]

17. Welcome to vinyl-land :)

Now you can hit the thrifts and yard sales for cheap records...cheap and fun way to build a heck of a music library. Listen to some good clean Windham Hill pressings for starters, William Ackerman, George Winston stuff. The sonics on those licorice pizzas (LP's) will knock your socks off. :D Then head over to www.audiokarma.org and get into vintage hi-fi gear...we'll have you into vintage Pioneer, Marantz, Kenwood, Sansui, etc. in no time! :D

Todd in Beerbratistan, vintage audio scrounger

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. I do have a few old Windham Hill albums

I think. I know I had a lot of tapes (that was a waste of money, since I've thrown them all away because tapes are, you know, shit) and a few CDs.

I saw Winston in concert in the late 80s - excellent show!

I remember years ago, when I was a junior high kid supremely interested in stereos I couldn't afford, drooling over the Macintosh stereos. I even saw a couple in high end, very expensive audio stores in the mid-80s.

It would be wonderful to play the vinyl through some old tube amps, and go for maximum warmth.

[sendero]

19. I'm betting the needle..

... an "overdriven" sound it often characteristic of a needle that has been damaged, i.e. broken/chipped.

[B3Nut]

16. Edited...

So it was your cart...glad it's working!

Yes, your other cart is likely bad, more than likely a severely-worn stylus. If your TT takes 1/2"-mount cartridges (mount to the headshell with 2 screws and nuts) the Shure M97xE or Audio-Technica AT440ML are nice upgrades, as is the Grado Black (a bargain at $40).

Todd in Beerbratistan