A Very Serious Question for everyone

[southerngirlwriter]

I want to get the general consensus of people around here about something, but first I need to express where I'm coming from, and then ask my question.

I am a devout, church-going Christian. That makes me a minority around here, which is fine with me. I know that many people around here, especially in the GLBT community, have been badly and deeply hurt by people who named the name of Jesus. I empathize with their hurt. I have wanted to do something for a while, but held myself back out of fear of offending people who find Christianity to be anathema. However, now that we can hide threads, I feel more comfortable proposing this.

I would like to post a thread every day (or almost every day) with a short Scripture reference and a paragraph or two relating it to social justice and history. This would be mostly focused on the gospels and how Jesus interacted with people. I will NOT post instructions on "being born again" or anything like that -- although anyone is welcome to PM or e-mail me at any time with questions, of course.

So far, I anticipate no objections.

However, there's one more thing. I believe that praying for my friends is part of what God wants me to do, and I consider DUers my friends. I want to accept prayer requests in the thread. I will not post prayers like the fundie wackjobs over at the freeper site do, but rather, will take these into my prayer closet, like I'm supposed to (freeper trolls, read Matthew chapters 5 and 6.)

I know I'm not the only Christian around here, nor the only person of prayer (and yes, I know that you can be the latter without being the former).

What do you people think? Is this going to be flamebait? A huge distraction? I am honestly seeking feedback here.

Thanks.

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. I'm a jew

But by all means, pray that I get a date soon. :D

[BurtWorm]

25. You are incorrigible!

I'm an atheist, but even I am praying you get a date soon! ;)

[AlFrankenFan]

51. Jews unite! hehe

[forgethell]

2. Hide thread/

What is that? How do you do it?

[Kamika]

71. see that "x"

Click it, then click back and update, and the thread is gone. Voila

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

3. You mean like a Verse a Day or something like that?

Me personally, I have no problem with that. I think the life of Jesus is pretty interesting, thought provoking stuff.

[mikehiggins]

4. Martyrdom is unpleasant to witness

I am also a Church going Christian who prays and all that but I would rather think it poor judgement to undertake the initiative you are proposing.

Lots of luck, buddy

[Pale Blue Dot]

5. My interpretation of the DU rules says that

there is nothing wrong with you starting a thread like that. I would suggest, however, that you think about DU and the spirit of debate that exists here. These threads might go off in ways you do not expect. If you are going to do this, I suggest you have a thick skin.

[Whitacre D_WI]

13. This is a good point.

Most people here will not flame you for your beliefs. Some, however, will. Be prepared for this, accept it, and you will be fine.

[mr blur]

61. I'm an atheist

But the things I believe have no more real value than the things you believe in, except to me. If you don't force your beliefs on me I won't force mine on you. Go ahead and do it - I don't have to read it if I don't want to. But you will have to be prepared for criticism, like everyone else.

[Soopercali]

6. I'm all for it.

I think it's about time Democrats stopped CHASING Christians out of their fold - and into the arms of the Republicon party.

I, for one, am happy to see someone raise this issue.

[Mass_Liberal]

7. i'm an athiest

but i'm cool with it. I never had a problem with religion, just with people that tried to force their religion on others.

[RebelOne]

66. I agree. I'm an atheist, too.

She may post whatever she wants, but I don't have to read it.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

8. IMHO, you'll be opening yourself up for a flamefest...

Church or religious boards are good places to discuss religion. This is a political forum.

Peace

[southerngirlwriter]

10. I don't disagree, but here's my point:

the RW has made religion part of their platform. They've stolen Jesus from the rest of us, to the point where many people think the Holy Spirit is a Republican.

I think the religious left, for lack of a better term, needs more visibility. I think it's the right thing to do, and I also think it could lead to more votes for left-leaning candidates.

If I'm wrong, please explain to me how.

[ronzo]

17. Given the potential for inflammation...

You may want to run this idea through the Ask the Admins forum.
Just a friendly suggestion.

:hi:

peace,
ronzo

[Syrinx]

31. I'm not really religious, but I like the point you make here

I was raised in the Church of Christ / Baptists (on the two sides of the family), but have ended up not very religious at all. That's probably because most "Christians" we see today are representative of the most hateful, selfish members of society.

I think taking Christianity, and religion in general, back from the bad people is a good and wise thing to do. If you decide to follow up on this, I wish you luck, and hope that the anti-religion people (of which I'm not one) will not make your life a living hell. Excuse the phrase. Good luck.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

45. They haven't "stolen" anything from anyone... They have cheapened it

and made a mockery of what Christianity is supposed to be about.

That IMHO, is a good example as to why we might want to keep those sorts of things where they belong.

Playing the "God on our side" game would come off just as distasteful here as it does there.

I'm not saying your wrong or right. These are just the opinions of an old Alabama redneck :-) .

[Nay]

88. As an atheist, I also think the religious left needs to make itself more

visible and vocal. Us atheists are a small minority and are pissed on from the git-go, so we aren't very effective at combatting the RW on the religious front. Lefty religion is really needed in this country. LOUD lefty religion. Lefty religion with LOUD TV preachers.

[picus9]

102. Funny, that doesn't hold true

When people are bashing religious types on this site.

I have no objections to your plea. Being a Boston Irish Catholic, the fundemental christian protestants from the south annoy me too, but everyone has a right to believe or not believe in whatever they want.

Some would flame you, but I won't, and I bet a lot of others wouldn't either.

[silverlib]

9. This is an open forum...

and I agree. Anyone who doesn't want to participate is free to "hide" the thread. I am a church going protesting Christian and am part of a Peace and Justice group sponsored by my church. Jesus is a great peacemaker, as is Budha and many others who taught peace. I don't pray to the same God that the neo-conservatives pray, but it doesn't mean that I can't be a Christian and march, donate what little I can, and work for a more peaceful world in my personal life, my community, my state, my nation, and my world. It's a shame and a great concern that we are coming upon the holidays of "peace" with so little peace in our world. Go for it.

[Whitacre D_WI]

11. Do it.

You are politically progressive. You work through what Catholics used to call the "Social Gospel" (I'm sure some still do, but when I used to talk about the Social Gospel in high school, they called me a commie).

Southerngirlwriter, you should post about what's important to you, what touches your soul. I post about music. You post about God. I am a lapsed Catholic myself, not agnostic ('cause I don't like the word), but not exactly a fervent believer either. And I can only speak for myself, but I will tell you right now:

If you pray for me, your prayers are welcomed and appreciated. I am humbled and honored that you think of us poor Lounge Rats as your friends, and I hope to extend the same hand of friendship to you that you have extended to us someday (what's the music nerd equivalent of prayers on one's behalf? a compilation CD?)

My 2 cents.

[Lefta Dissenter]

18. I'm curious

why you don't like the word 'agnostic.' Do you mean you just don't like it for yourself, or is there some underlying negative connotation that I'm unaware of?

[Whitacre D_WI]

29. Bob Dylan said he wasn't a "poet" because he didn't like...

...the word. "I'm a trapeze artist," he said.

My reaction to the word "agnostic" is pretty much the same. I have no problem with the etymology of the word, or with anyone who considers themself to be agnostic. I just don't use the word to describe myself.

Anyway, I do believe in something beyond myself. Just not sure what it is. I suppose you'd best call me a "deist."

Just like Ben Franklin! Works for me!

[Lefta Dissenter]

42. Dear Deist,

Wow, just like Ben Franklin! You're WAY cool! :)

By the way, despite the fact that I am an agnostic, I have never liked the word, but for totally different reasons. I just don't think it's a pretty word! But I've learned to deal with it.

Hmmmmmm, maybe that's why my sister is a born-again Christian.

She doesn't approve of my bumper sticker that says, "Born OK the First Time" but she seems to love me anyway! :pals:

[Fovea]

12. I see nothing wrong with faith or prayer

But I am not Christian, and I cannot promise that I will agree substantially with your posts.

If it proves unacceptable to me, I will simply render the thread invisible. I will note here though that the two things that could make this quickly a divisive idea would be jingoism and condemnation.

Your founder set a high standard for understanding and tolerance that many of his adherents seem either incapible of, blind to, or both. You are biting off a big job. I suggest you start by reading 'the secular city' by Harvey Cox. It is a decidedly non secular book.

[henslee]

32. Faith? Prayer? Don't they work t uesday nights at Crazygirls?

[Lefta Dissenter]

14. As an agnostic

I don't have a problem with it, but I surely agree with the folks who warned that you best be wearing your asbestos underwear. I'm constantly amazed at how the most benign threads can erupt like Mt. Vesuvius.

[sistersofmercy]

15. Honestly, I don't think everyday is a good idea but perhaps once or

twice a week would suffice. Just don't be disheartened by a lack of response. I don't believe it will be flamebait and hopefully, if done respectfully which I'm sure it will be, others will be respectful to your right to freely express yourself and possibly lend help to others. I wish you the very best.

[lpbk2713]

16. I'd stay out of General Discussion if I were you.

While I applaud the courage you show in your convictions the maddogs over there will be nipping at your heels.

[Scott Lee]

19. I'm Wiccan, and I think you are a gem. I support you 100%.

Do you know how refreshing it is to see a Christian offering something (prayer, bible verse) rather than using it as a blunt instrument on our heads? I see a huge difference between praying for someone as a loving act, and praying as a frontal assault against the target's beliefs.

Personally, not only would I have no objection to your desired project I commend you for it and I so badly wish there were more Christians like yourself making their voices heard.

Peace.

[leftist_rebel1569]

20. It'll be flamebait, but....

I'd say go ahead and do it. I'd personally look forward to it :)

[hlthe2b]

21. I hear the sincerity coming through in your post...

And I don't think you are a minority. More devout than most, perhaps. Certainly more observant than I. However, I do think there are lots of "true" Christians who may be reticent to speak out because of the very wrong stereotpes propagated by the "Christian" fundies.

I doubt anyone would mind scripture that was tied to the context of today's problems and not towards conversion. You clearly know that anything that would come across as preaching would not be received well.

But, if you do it as you describe, perhaps you could make progress in offseting those stereotypes.

[ibegurpard]

69. Right

It came across as very sincere to me as well and I have no problem with people attempting to direct positive energy through whatever belief system they use.

[roughsatori]

22. I look forward to you starting your threads

The only thing that would drive me from participating is if posters start moaning about being "persecuted for being Christian." I find it tedious and melodramatic when people who belong to the most popular religion in the US start acting like they are being nailed to a cross when they are called on their remarks.

I am someone who prays from 45min to 5 hours a day--so I would not mind your idea at all.

However be prepared. We have some very knowledgeable atheists here regarding theology and Scripture.

I have also seen some DUers who say they are Christian and then misquote Scripture in ways that pervert the original meaning and prove they are not really conversant with the text.

And of course you will have to expect some of our members to reply with the infamous: Why are you talking about fairy tales?

And then there must be some sensitivity to the use of phrases like: "The Old Testament" and the fact that the Douay Rheims and the King James do not even contain the same books. And then there is the Apocrypha and the debate over who makes a Canon. And I am sure we must have some Torah scholars who could fascinate me with their talk of Midrash. I am listneing to a tranlation of the Heart Sutra as I type.

It sounds entertaining and possibly enlightening.

[southerngirlwriter]

26. That's a pet peeve of mine, too.

I love this link, because it puts the lie to the idea that Christians are persecuted in this country.

http://www.infidels.org/misc/humor/lioaca.html

[YellowRubberDuckie]

85. The first one on the list is total bullshit...

He said that people who WEREN'T CHRISTIAN shouldn't be considered as patriots,etc. God, that pisses me off...And don't even get me started on that reference to Dr. MLK, Jr. Oh my god, my head is going to explode. God I'm so glad it's just fodder to make fun of idiot Republicans.
Duckie

[toodles_oduff]

23. Just change the channel!

Or ignore your threads is my advice to the non-religious DUers. Not that all who feel that way are incapable of having a civil discussion about the social & political lessons that the life of Jesus might teach. I think one of the strengths of the Democratic party is its diversity. We can welcome the various ethnicities, the straight and the gay/lesbian, the old, the young, the disabled and those who subscribe to a religion or to none whatsoever.

[45th Med]

24. I was born at Ft. Rucker (something in common) and deeply Christian.....

Catholic to be more specific. I collect rosaries and other Catholic objects.

I would LOVE to hear your views on scripture and talk to you more about this subject. I'm all ears. O8)

[scarlet_owl]

39. I collect rosaries and other Catholic items, too!

I especially love sick call sets, but I only have one. Getting back on task here, I think a verse a day would be lovely. I don't think it would be forcing religion on anyone.

[Kenneth ken]

27. my $.02

to me, nothing is flamebait. If a thread veers off in that direction, I just stop reading it. Other are drawn to that like moths to flames.

I'm not religious, but occasionally mentally gnaw at religious questions like wiggling a loose tooth, or something, so I'm sure some of your threads would be interesting to me.

My first though was this might be better done in The Meeting Room, than the lounge, but on reflection, if you were posting a new thread daily, it would start to clutter up that room.

I do agree with the other posters who disapprove of us seeming to push all Christians towards the Republican party. That is a bad idea.

So, sure post away!


ot - for my own amusement...I cracked me up the other day with this thought:

if a person lived her whole life as an atheist, did good works, etc. then died, and based on her works in life were automatically admitted to Heaven, would it be Hell for her? What if God came round every few hours, nudged her, and said, "Can you see me now?" :evilgrin:

[rasputin1952]

54. Not trying to be an antagonist here...

but the Meeting Room is filled with astrology threads, and I believe the introduction of religion would draw many moths to the flames.

While there are 'fundies' in every religion, there are quite a few 'fundies' in other 'beleif forms' as well. Seems as if those that profess such closeness with whatever they concieve to be the truth, fall err to the very human emotion of defense, and then hate.

O8)

[Cheswick2.0]

73. "can you see me now"? LOL, however "can you hear me now"....

would work as well!

Don't you just love it when you crack yourself up? :7

[NightTrain]

28. As long as you're not violating the rules of DU, I'd say go for it!

As an atheist, I've never read the Bible, nor do I particularly want to. But if you're willing to post some of the good stuff in it to the Lounge, I for one would find it potentially helpful. What I mean is that I'd love to memorize some good Bibical passages that I could throw in a right-winger's face when he or she starts getting all sanctimonious on me!

[picus9]

104. The bible is good reading.

This is nothing personal, but I've never understood how some aethiests could be so anti bible without ever reading a page of it.
I can understand having objections to religion based upon historical and current events. However. The text in the bible is only bad if it is interpeted improperly. There are some beautiful and wise passages in there.

I bet you'd like some of the books especially those in the new testement. You'd like Paul. He makes arguments with the more traditional fundementalist stuff.

[neuvocat]

109. On the other hand...

there are so many who claim to have those "christian values" who never read the bible outside of church on Sundays.

[picus9]

121. true.

no argument here.

[Interrobang]

141. Excuse me (cough), I have to break in here...

To the atheist who's never read the Bible, and in response to the poster who suggested reading Paul, I'd say "Stay the hell away from Paul!" Paul is where the Nazarene Judaic sect began to go wrong. Speaking from a historical, rather than any sectarian religious point of view, Paul was a rather megalomaniacal, mysogynistic SOB who took many of the original tenets as laid out in the early gospels (the ones written roughly contemporary to JC, rather than the ones that were written long after he died) and turned them on their heads, along with sort of picking and choosing from earlier Jewish tradition and making a mess of things.

Then again, my particular idea of commentary on religion is about roughly split between Augustine and Hillel, so that ought to let you know where I'm coming from. I'm also an atheist, so it's not like I'm particularly interested in one side or another, although I will admit I have much more of a fondness for the Old Testament than the New.

As to your original idea, SGW, I think it sounds all right, but I probably won't read it. I'm currently studying more Judaism than Christianity (I suppose I'll do Islam next), and I got quite enough of it shoved down my throat to find something like what you're proposing slightly uncomfortable for me. But by all means, go ahead and do it. I for one won't be on your thread flaming you -- I believe in changing the channel! ;-)

[Bossy Monkey]

30. Why not weekly?

Doing it daily seems like it has the potential both to become a burden to you and maybe a slight annoyance to others. A weekly digest seems like it would be a better approach.

I also note that the Meeting Room is probably a much better venue for such an enterprise.

[cally]

33. What would be your purpose in doing this every day

While I would welcome a few posts like this, I would soon see it as proselytizying. It would start quickly to annoy me.

I'm a Christian and I would welcome your contributions. I just think this idea seems like you are trying to use a political board as a way to inform about Christ's teachings. I think you would be much more effective to offer some insights occasionally and a thread once or twice.

I've seen these religion threads, and they get ugly. A more moderate approach is more effective IMHO>

[southerngirlwriter]

35. Hrm....perhaps twice a week WOULD be better.

It will also give me a chance to apply things more directly to the RW's evil plans.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Mountainman]

34. I have no problem with it but be prepared to get slammed.

I was born Catholic but I don't practice that faith and my brother is a Catholic priest so I talk to him all the time about Jesus and social justice. I think Jesus was a model for social justice.

[LastKnight]

36. its got my support 110%

as a christian myself... i think it refreshing that somone wants to use it for political good rather than a weapon like jerry falwell and others do, he pisses me off so bad with his talk of 'good christians' and how they only 'good christian' values are that of republicans and neo-cons.

i welcome it, encourage it, just as long as you dont get too aggressive, and i will grab the fire extinguisher and help you defend your post if any flamers pop up. and there eventuially will be flamers.

just a thought, if the right wing is so full of 'good christians' like were told all the time, why do they have problems with tollerance of minorities, homosexuals, and people with opposing views, and why are they constantly WAR MONGERING? (how easily we forget those few words THOU SHALL NOT KILL) sounds like those good old falwell 'christian values' huh?

people will be offended, that happens no matter what people say, that happens with freedom of speech, no matter what. the alternative is to be silent, and i for one, am uncomfortable with that one, i would rather offend some people and speak my view than remain silent.

-LK

PS, if you do it, keep it in the lounge or mabye the meeting place, anywhere else you'd get flamed quick

[Booberdawg]

37. I am not clear on one part of your post that I would like clarification on

I am a devout, church-going Christian. That makes me a minority around here, which is fine with me. I know that many people around here, especially in the GLBT community, have been badly and deeply hurt by people who named the name of Jesus. I empathize with their hurt. I have wanted to do something for a while, but held myself back out of fear of offending people who find Christianity to be anathema. However, now that we can hide threads, I feel more comfortable proposing this.

I do not want to jump to conclusions. Are you saying that what you are proposing to say might hurt the GLBT community, and so now they have the opportunity to hide your thread, so they or anyone else sensitive to such words will no longer be hurt, offended, or have anything to say in return by what it is you propose to say?

I will await your clarification.

[southerngirlwriter]

41. Good grief, no!

I was referring to the fact that some members of the GLBT community are so deeply wounded by Christians that they might not even want to see a subject header with Jesus or a scripture or anything like that.

One of my closest friends is a gay man, and he doesn't like to come into my studio because I have a big poster with all the names of Jesus on it. It makes his skin crawl because Christians have tried to use Jesus has to hurt him so many times. I respect that, and when he comes over, I move my chessboard into the living room. Same thing -- the opportunity not to see something that they may find offensive or hurtful just on face value.

That's what I meant, and that's ALL I meant.

[LastKnight]

43. no one forces people to click on threads.

they only enter at their own choice to do so, so label it clearly and the mature(id like to think that 99.9% of us are mature though) ones who dont want to see it wont click on it. if you get flamed dont feel bad, religion has always been and will always be controversial.

-LK

[Booberdawg]

47. Okay, I have not seen you before and I just wanted to make sure

I'm suspicious by nature and feel protective of certain democratic principles when it comes to basic human rights.

I could not tell for sure from what you wrote that you were not proposing you were going to preach (relgion) the evils of homosexuality and expect the GLBT community to hide the threads.

I apologize, and while I am not especially religious, I respect and applaud what you are proposing to do. I think it's a wonderful idea!

And by the way, since I've not seen you before, welcome to DU. :toast:

[southerngirlwriter]

50. No problem, and thank YOU

for not jumping to conclusions. :-)

[Kat45]

38. I would find such a thread very interesting.

I am a Christian who is liberal, open-minded, and tolerant, and I am upset that the right wing fundies have appropriated the word "Christian" and turned it into something that it is not. I think that what you would like to do will help people see that the words and actions of Jesus reflect goodness and kindness and other qualities admired and practiced by liberals--not the meanness and intolerance that the fundies exhibit while calling themselves Christians.

Go for it!

[Jerseycoa]

40. It's fine

"relating it to social justice and history"

It's political. Anybody who doesn't want to read it can X out.

[pasadenaboy]

44. I think its a good idea

I would love to comment. You should check this website


http://www.therightchristians.org

Good luck.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Try posting in The Meeting Room forum

It already has a good share of paranormal, astrology, psychic, UFOs, science, non-Western religions, and general spiritual stuff.

I see nothing wrong with you posting there, in fact I welcome it.

BTW, I am a Marxist-Leninist and as such I adhere to Lenin's maxim that religion is a private matter, as far as the state is concerned. As long as you don't advocate using the power of government to impose a particular sectarian viewpoint, regardless of the religion, you will get no heartburn from me.

It may come as a surprise to some, but many Marxists are not atheists in their personal lifes.

[southerngirlwriter]

48. I spent two months in Russia

not long after the fall of communism. I was surprised to find exactly what you've said -- almost none of them were true atheists. I was raised on "evil Commie atheist bastards" and it was enlightening, at that tender age, to learn how screwy my history books really were.

[Ellen Forradalom]

57. I second that

The Meeting Room seems like a good place for such threads. The Lounge is too loud, raucous, and fast-moving a place for contemplative discussions.

I also second the idea of weekly or twice-weekly. If you want to post daily, I recommend starting a blog.

[Wonk]

59. Hear, hear! nt

[Bunny]

63. Yes, the Meeting Room would be the place for this.

n/t

[MediumBrownDog]

49. I applaud you

I would find such threads very refreshing.

[southerngirlwriter]

52. OK....unless the Admins tell me otherwise,

I'm going to go ahead. I will post two a week (Tuesday night and Friday night) for a couple of weeks, and then either slightly more or less frequently, depending on response.

Thank you to everyone for your comments and feedback. Very helpful. I am waiting on an okay from the Admins before posting the first one.

[rasputin1952]

53. Dear SGW'er...

I am also a Christian, and not INO. I am as about as far away from a Fundy as is humanly possible; and I have never had a problem with anyone posting on religion in this site.

I will never press my beliefs beyond accepting ears/eyes, and am open to questions of all types. I have seen however, that some on this site are not quite as tolerant as I, and will put the heat to you almost instantaneously, regardless of the theology implied. Christians though, by far, get the most heat.

If you feel the urge to pray for some, be my guest, but I have found that the essence of prayer, is to ask God what He wants you to do, as opposed to what you would like Him to do.

In the past, I have rarely asked God for anything personal for myself, I learned that there is an awesome responsibility attached to what one receives. I am not afraid of that responsibility, but rather, fear I may misuse what I learn.

If you do decide to write a theological piece each day, make sure your skin is thick, and your longjohns are flameproof.

O8)

edited: spelling, as usual, (darn fat fingers!)

[IndianaGreen]

56. The Meeting Room is a perfect forum for what she is trying to do

I may even post some of Bishop Spong's articles, even though I am not a Christian.

[TacticalPeek]

55. Why the hell not?

If it has a socioeconopolitical subtext, then it should be interesting.

And I certainly agree with your motive.

I've always had a thing for Seymour's fat lady myself. :)

[REP]

58. Start With Matthew 6:5-7

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.  But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

[Guaranteed]

65. There's nothing wrong with praying with others.

The whole point of church is the sense of togetherness and community that people enjoy there.

As far as people trying to make religion the foremost issue in every situation, you are correct. But there's nothing wrong with what she wants to do.

[REP]

142. I Only Quoted Scripture; I Didn't Write It

The scripture I quoted says something about those who make a public display of being pious.

[kodi]

60. christians are in denial about the lies that founded christianity

ok, you asked for it, here it is.

"Christ rose from the dead" is the foundation of Christianity. Without a belief in the Resurrection, there is no Christianity.

But, there was no Resurrection; there was no rising of a human from the dead.

That Christians need this as an affirmation to believe in the teachings of Jesus is about the worst feature of humanity and Christianity.

That so-called Christians can't simply believe that what Jesus taught was in and of itself important for people to live by and not require the imprimatur of the "Divine" is their fundamental and original failing.

The crux of Christianity is the identification of the historical character as the only incarnation in history of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. The latter is a theological principle. When Paul said “I live now not I, but Christ in me,” he didn't say Jesus, the historical character, in me, he said "Christ in me.”

The problem, or distance between the church and the words of Jesus are the difference between the connotation... the spirit of the word, and the denotation... meaning it is a hard fact. This is the basis for the Christian Church... the historical Jesus. But his words, even in the Gospel of Thomas have to be seen as their connotation... the spirit of the meaning... and the pointing of a way to lead a good life and to seek the transcendent. This was and is the religious part of the message, a way to a truly religious or transcendent experience.

“ Tut tvam asi” is ancient Sanskrit, from the Chandogya Upanishad, which says "You are it" or "thou art that". That divinity which you seek outside, and which you first become aware of because you recognize it outside, is actually your innermost being. It's not a nice thing to say; for it's not good for institutions if people find it's all within them... it is the God within you coming out... and blasphemy to the western religions.


As one who was raised and educated as a Roman Catholic and educated by Jesuit priests, I have a different perspective on Christianity than most Protestants.


The Mass is a unique phenomenon in the history of comparative religions. Its symbolism is rooted in the human psyche. It contains allusions to the prefiguations in the Old Testament and also to ancient sacrificial symbolism in general. Greek mystery religions are replete with their own redemption stories. From the 2nd century to the 5th, a broad stream of Greek mystery religion entered into the Church, and transformed it from simple minded Biblical Christianity of the desert to the mystical sacramentalism that has survived to this day. The Christ sacrifice and communion strike the deepest chords in human psyche: human sacrifice and ritual anthropophagi.

Christianity is distinguished from these Greek mystery religions by its historical character and the entirely different significance it imputed by the coming and death of Jesus Christ. Therefore it is by nature, not mystical, but anti-mystical, a nature religion. Nevertheless, Paul and other later writers of the Christian faith adapted a subdued sort of mystery language to their needs.

Orthodox Jews and orthodox Christians insist that a chasm separates humanity from God, in that God is apart from, not a part of humanity.

For orthodox Christians only Jesus shares the apotheosis. Many Gnostics considered “self-knowledge is knowledge of God; the self and the divine are identical.” This statement is the primary heresy to Christianity as we know it today. Self-Apotheosis.

The Gnostics, especially whose leaders rejected the path of “hierarchical” Christianity, viz., that which is now considered orthodox Christianity essentially believed in “Tut tvam asi” the ancient Sanskrit saying, from the Chandogya Upanishad, which says "You are it" or "thou art that". That divinity which you seek outside, and which you first become aware of because you recognize it outside, is actually your innermost being.

It's not a nice thing to say; for it's not good for institutions if people find it's all within them... it is the God within you coming out... and blasphemy to orthodox Christianity. It was this belief in self-apotheosis and denial by the Gnostics for the need of a hierarchical system of the faith that drove the Orthodox Christians to persecute them after the Second Century AD.

As I said earlier, the problem, or distance between the church and the words of Jesus are the difference between the connotation... the spirit of the word, and the denotation... meaning it is a hard fact. This is the basis for the Christian Church, the historical Jesus.

But His words, even in the Gospel of Thomas have to be seen as their connotation... the spirit of the meaning... and the pointing of a way to lead a good life and to seek the transcendent. This was and is the religious part of the message, a way to a truly religious or transcendent experience.

Orthodox Christianity indicates that one finds God only through Jesus, and in this contemporary meaning, implies that one finds Jesus only through the Church.

But the Gnostic Thomas text indicates a different inference very clearly:

Thomas II: 20. Saying (3) “Jesus said, ‘ If those who lead you say to you, “See, the kingdom is in the sky, then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea, then the fish will precede you.’ Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father.”

And Saying (113) His Disciples said to him, “When will the kingdom come?” <Jesus said> “It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying ‘here it is’ or ‘there it is’. Rather the kingdom of the father is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it.”

In the Gnostic gospel according to Thomas, Jesus says, "cleave a piece of wood, I am there; lift up the stone and you will find me there.” in this manner has the historical Jesus identified himself with the Christ... or Buddha consciousness. He is living in terms, not of the ego, but of the Christ, seeing the ubiquity in all of the radiance of that which is the deepest center of being within you……you wont find that in the orthodoxy of Christianity, too bad, for it works....hhhmmm, maybe that's why it isn't part of the orthodoxy?



So, we go on to evil, or Sin, and Original Sin now. The symbolism and its use by the Church of Original Sin and the act of Atonement, AT-One-Ment has been around for so long in Christian theology that it is apparently a sacred mantra. It is neither questioned nor because of its self contained structure in need of further explanation.

First God creates the World, populates it with Adam and Eve, by listening to the voices of temptation, aforementioned in an earlier post, Satan, disguised as the serpent, they disregard the prohibition and eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, the forbidden fruit whereby their eyes are opened and they know good from evil. God has been disobeyed, perfection ruined, and human life has fallen into sin.

Sum it up?

Remember now, before they ate the fruit, Adam and Eve were considered immortal, otherwise why curse them with death, Eve with childbirth and Adam to earn his living by the sweat of his brow. Since all generations are told to be based upon Adam and Eve, all humanity is blighted with this sin and mortality. The sign of the universality of the human condition, mortality is interpreted as a sign of the universality of human sin.

Thus all human life stands in need of redemption. All life cries out for a savior. And this became the central focus of the traditional Christian story. In fact, the Christian story of redemption has been told of just this story, or myth.

According to the story, God started the redemption process by selecting a particular people that God would use to work out this redemption, the Hebrews and their Messiah.

Via stories of holy selection, sacrifice and salvation, first, Abraham’s small sacrifice of his son (well, almost, anyway), thru Isaac over Ishmael, Jacob over Esau, and Joseph over the first born, Ruben, the story motif is played out, of one chosen by God to carry the purpose of God.

We know that an ancient system of sacrifice was developed to close the chasm between God and Man. See Yom Kipper, and Leviticus 16, where the scapegoat appears. Another ritual of Yom Kipper was the sacrifice of the lamb, unblemished, a lamb of atonement (Leviticus 23:26-32).

Yet, as this lamb is subhuman, it is not capable of immorality, since immorality requires the ability to choose right from wrong. However, these sacrifices were made to pay for the sins of the people.

As a result, it was adopted that the giving of the law and the process of sacrificial worship were interim steps that humanity would use to deal with the hopelessness of sinfulness and death. To be human was by very definition, evil, fallen, and in need of rescue. As Paul wrote “all have sinned and fall short.” (Romans 3:23)

From this idea and adaptation of ritual, of the conviction that humans were sinful, and in need of redemption that has enabled guilt and religion to be so closely wedded in western history.

The power of Christianity (and Judaism) has been of the religious people to understand and manipulate the sense of human inadequacy and fear that expresses itself as guilt. They do this by basing their purpose of life as to be whole, free, and at one with one’s creator.

When the history of the Church is examined one can see it is guilt more than is it forgiveness that has been the lever of Church power. The Church has faith in life after death, and it is predicated upon worldly guilt being alleviated, expiated, or punished with eternal damnation.

The masterstroke of the Church that allowed this ecclesiastic power to hold sway and control was achieved when the pervasive human guilt over inadequacy, fear and failure was connected to human desire, especially sexual desire. Sex was evil. Sex was universal, so evil was universal.

This is about how it was, and how it goes in Christianity.

However, since there was no Garden, no Adam, no Eve, there was no Fall, no need of Redemption, and no requirement for Atonement and that Jesus appear as Savior.

Many Christians understand this on a fundamental level and it is why they fight so hard to deny evolution, and that their religious House of cards; constructed with the material of the Garden, forbidden fruit of knowledge, of the Fall and the need for redemption thru the sacrificial Lamb of God, Jesus Christ is so strongly defended. Take away the Garden, and the basis for the House falls.


This is why I have believe that one needs to see these things metaphorically, symbolically or science and rationality destroys the architecture raised from the denotation of the messages of the ancients as religious faith.


The Catholic Mass is the reenactment of the ritual evolved over time from the Last Supper. It is not predicated on the Sabbath being either Saturday or Sunday.

Do you understand from where the liturgy of the Mass arose, that the Mass represents a refinement of the Love Feast, the Agape of the early church, that’s own roots go back to the time of the living Apostles (circa 50CE)? That these are not completely separate things but that the Mass arose out of the congregation of the faithful at a meal, the Agape? And that the reason the Mass became the official method of worship was to ensure the control of the congregation by the officials of the church over heresies like the Gnostics? And that they, the Church leaders did the same thing, control the day declared Sabbath to fight those they considered heretics?


The one, great positive message Jesus repeatedly tried to express was the thought that no individual could know himself unless his inner honesty was complete. The peace he talked about was of an inner peace.

The way to it was through truth and through the abandonment of preoccupation with temporal matters, with worldly goods, with trade and gain. While he did not overlook the necessity of objective living, he admonished against considering a life oriented wholly outward to matter as a satisfying life.

The light he to which he so often made reference was the light of truth, inner truth.

Thomas II: 20. Saying (3) “Jesus said, ‘ If those who lead you say to you, “See, the kingdom is in the sky, then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea, then the fish will precede you.’ Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father.”

No man, according to him, could know himself unless he knew all the inferior and negative aspects of himself. A man who did not know himself could not in anyway trust what he thought about other men or the world.

This is the first obviously essential step of self-knowledge leads to further developments of wisdom and understanding which could be followed to the outermost capacity of each individual and which in the case of most deeply reasoning, honest and imaginative individuals would lead to a transcendental experience.

His premise was that an individual is able through self-honesty, integrity alone to follow the elements of his subjective nature to their outermost boundaries. There any one would find the boundary infinite and immortal.

Jesus took the very solid position that unless you know who you are you don’t know what you are thinking about and you can only find out who you are by a difficult job of detachment and self appraisal.

If Jesus came to save us, he did it by teaching us the tools to save ourselves.


<from a synthesis of carl jung, john spong, phillip wylie, and joseph campbell>

[Cheswick2.0]

75. okay, but what do you think?

Or do you find cutting and pasteing other's opinions sufficient to creative thought?

[kodi]

123. damn, thanks, C & P would've been easier than the thinking & typing i did

but i didn't.

[supernova]

92. Your argument has some truth

but, by your own admission your post is directed at "orthodox christians".

I don't know that there are that many "orthodox christians" here at DU. A lot of us are distinctly independent in our personal approach to theology, even if we do belong to more orthodox churches.

[kodi]

126. the "orthodoxy" is defined as in opposition to heterodoxy, ie gnosticism

not the greek orthodox church.

an "orthodox" christian is generally one who believes in the words or at least the spirit of the Apostolic Creed, the Nicene Creed and their accutrements

"We believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth.
We believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God the Father our Lord and Saviour, who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered on the Cross by Crucifixion , died and buried, descended into Hades, on the third day arose, taught His disciples for 40 days of the mysteries of the kingdom of God, ascended up and into Heaven,and as the High Priest sitteth at the right hand of God the Almighty, from thence He will come again to take the Members of the Elect unto Himself and on the last Judgement Day to judge the Quick and the Dead.

"We believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Universal Apostolic Church, the Communion with the Saints, forgiveness of Sins and the Resurrection to life everlasting (eternal).

"We believe that Jesus Christ is the Head of His Church, which He rules and sustains through the Holy Spirit and to which He sent and continues to send His Apostles."

but if one doesn't believe jesus rose from the dead, how can one call themself a Christian? it is this "miracle" that fulfills the biblical Covenent and is the divide between the old and new testaments.

if you dont believe in that, then it is as i said before, that the truth of the message of jesus is sufficent and the imprimitur of the "divine" is not necessary for one to believe that what jesus said was true.

when you move to that ground, then the use of christian theologies and symbolism are not necessary as a basis for "good works."

its as if one has to move beyond jesus, the christ to get to the christ in each of us, just as the mystic, meister eckart said, one has to get past their image of god to get to god.

[rasputin1952]

95. A simple question...

How do you KNOW, that Jesus was not resurrected from the dead?

Obviously, you weren't there, so how do you Know?

Christianity is a religion of faith, faith often goes beyond what is considered reasonable at the time. To question anothers faith, without concrete evidence to the opposite, is to fight a winless battle.

Only "Fundies" take 'everything' literally in Biblical terms; seek beyond, ask for knowledge and guidance....look deeper. The Truth is much simpler than what the thoughts of man have made it.

O8)

[kodi]

124. its just statisics and biology, no one has been, so why think jesus was?

except that books written 3-7 decades after his death said so?

it would mean exactly the same thing as the sun standing still in the sky over the walls of jericho, viz., the physical laws of the universe were suspended. they didn't happen.

it is up to you to prove how these exceptions to universal laws of nature could occur, not mine to prove they could not occur.

there is so much evidence that the resurrection tales of jesus are redactions of earlier myths from the greeks, persians, and egyptians to think that it happened as was written.

its pretty clear the synoptic gospel authors were quite familar with these and used them as source materials for the imagry and symbolism.

believe what ever you want, but dont expect me to have any respect for one's rationality if one tells me that he died and came back to life, or walked on water, or actually raised a dead man from the grave.

"i take the gospel whenever its 'posble but with a grain of salt"
sportin' life, from porgy and bess.

[rasputin1952]

129. Not trying to be an antagonist at all...

my query was simple, How does anyone "know" this didn't happen?

It is impossible to prove or disprove, the belief in resurection is based on faith.

I find that in many cases, science bears out Biblical discussion. I also find that science bears out many things never mentioned in the Bible, yet they exist, or did exist at one time. As for the earth ceasing to rotate, I cannot believe that, as easily as I can that there was an atmospheric anamoly, that was described as the "sun stopping". I am not a literalist, nor am I a 'fundy'; I am a seeker, just as we all are.

O8)

[neuvocat]

113. No raising of the dead?

You mean like Lazurus? If you're going to acknowledge Christ, quote him, and use the bible as a reference, be sure not to leave things out.

[Booberdawg]

62. One caveat though

There are those that CAN put the thread on hide because they choose not to approach the topic and there are those that will LEAP on the topic because they CHOOSE to OPPOSE the topic.

I suspect your participants are going to be no different, with, or without, the ability to hide threads.

Just a guess, mind you. :D

[Lexingtonian]

64. a good start

Matthew 15:10-11

:D

[frustrated_lefty]

67. It's well-intended.

Try it out, see if it floats. Wear flame retardant gear and don't look for converts.

If you want to pray for people, you might want to think about how you'll pray (God, save this sinner, for example, won't float).

You're expressing good intent, though, from what I see. I say go for it.

[UrbScotty]

68. Yes, I'd love it!

We can also prove that Jesus and Bush are opposites.

[Kamika]

70. Heyho, I'm a christian aswell

I think it's a great idea!!!

That would make the atheists etc see that the bible isn't some rightwing ideaology book instead it just a book depicting good morals, that you should love your neighbour etc.

I only wonder though if you could keep up doing it every day, I know I'd be too lazy :)

Well try it and see how it goes. if you want to be super PC you can promote it as "religious" instead of "Cristian"

Just get a thick skin ready because some ppl WILL flame hehe.

Shouldn't be much of a problem though.

I also think it's cool to do this now since it's christmas and ppl seem to forget Jesus was actually BORN that day.

[matcom]

72. i love you Kamika but got a REAL prob with this post

That would make the atheists etc see that the bible isn't some rightwing ideaology book instead it just a book depicting good morals, that you should love your neighbour etc.


i don't personally think the bible depicts stellar morals, nor do i look to a fairy tale to determin MY moral state.

nor do i need to be a "believer" to love my neighbor, help people etc...

i don't see the bible as right wing at all (just the fundies have marketed it better). however, as an atheist, i don't really know how i would feel seeing a religous "prayer thread" every day. i certainly wouldn't stop her from posting one but i suspect that i would have to hide that thread daily.

please don't try and "change me" as an atheist. it took me a lot of careful thought and a lot of years to get where i am today. don't feel sorry for me, accept my "faith" as i accept yours.

Thanks

[ibegurpard]

74. I think it depends on what she chooses to focus upon.

There are universal truths that transcend every belief system. The Bible has many positive things in it as well as the negative things. I don't think that anyone can argue that a teaching like "love thy neighbor as thyself" could be detrimental to anyone. It just seems like good common sense to help us all get along in the world. I would only have a problem with it if it gets into proselytizing: ie: Christ is the only way to salvation or the negative stuff: ie: Anything from Leviticus.

[Kamika]

77. OK

I never wrote anything about changing people.

I just think that alot of ppl have pretty bad ethics today and if they would just follow what's taught in the bible everything would be alot better.

And (as I wrote) if she posts stuff from the bible that is socially progressive etc I think alot of ppl would see it in an new light.

[Cheswick2.0]

78. so hide away

it would certainly show more class than the constantly regurgitated (and not even clever the first time )"fairey tale", "magic man in the sky" quips.

[rasputin1952]

96. Agreed, one of the best innovations recently...

is the "hide-a-thread".

I use my remote to still the waters on my TV, or change the station on my radio....I used to just avoid threads that I found inflammatory.
Although I will never use 'ignore' on people, I may well use the new 'hider' in the future.

In any case, I firmly believe that all of us believe in something. I enjoy reading and listening to all callers and speakers. It enhances my understanding mof myself and all that is around me. For me to automatically reject something, is as obnoxious to me, as to automatically accept all I hear as truth. Seek, look beyond ones own sphere, it is a marvelous universe out there. I think, therefore I am.

O8)

[MaineDem]

76. Personally, I would avoid reading the thread

My religion is a personal issue and I tend to avoid public discussion about it.

But that's why we now have the little Xs.

[Cheswick2.0]

79. cool

:hi:

[ikojo]

80. Southerngirl writer....wow!

"However, there's one more thing. I believe that praying for my friends is part of what God wants me to do, and I consider DUers my friends. I want to accept prayer requests in the thread. I will not post prayers like the fundie wackjobs over at the freeper site do, but rather, will take these into my prayer closet, like I'm supposed to (freeper trolls, read Matthew chapters 5 and 6.)

I know I'm not the only Christian around here, nor the only person of prayer (and yes, I know that you can be the latter without being the former). "


I wish more Christians acted as you do. Praying for others is a very selfless act and does not hurt anyone. I applaud you for that.

I am so happy to read that you believe one does not need to be a Christian in order to pray. Just this week, my old supervisor came down to our unit to commisserate about her new position as a customer service supervisor (it's more work than she had to do in the auditing unit and she's not used to that). She asked people to pray for her. She looked at the two self professed but hardly practicing born agains and said please pray for me and my job. She then looked at me and said, do whatever you do but don't pray for me because I wanna make sure they're heard. I was insulted. Just because I am Jewish does not mean G-d does not hear my prayers. Incidentally, I suspect that many on DU think this type of fundamentalism is only in the white community...my former supervisor is black. This encounter reminded me of the time Fallwell said G-d does not hear the prayer of a Jew.

Why do so many Christians think G-d hates Jews? Afer all the guy they worship was a JEW. He lived as a JEW, prayed as a JEW and was buried as JEW. He was JEWY, JEW JEW!!!! I also suspect he kept KOSHER, he was such a JEW.

Ok sorry about that but I was insulted when she insinuated that my prayers were less than hers. Do all Christians think this (really deep down)?

[Kamika]

81. an answer

ok first off

"then looked at me and said, do whatever you do but don't pray for me because I wanna make sure they're heard"

sorry that just cracked me up lol :D

anyway alot of the fundies still go around with the "jews killed Jesus" mentality that's basicly the reason.

About jesus as a jew.. yes ofcourse he was a jew.. everyone in that area but the romans were. Jesus was referred to as a Rabbi aswell.

He respected the shabbath and everything.

And personally I believe everyones prayer is worth just asmuch (even atheists) except for satanists etc

[Maeve]

83. I was taught that all prayers are heard, especially those for others

From both Protestant and Catholic sources (and my Orothodox friend agrees). It's the proud, selfish and self-satisfied who get no hearing.

And those who pray in public to show their piety, or become famous/wealthy/respected by that public show already have all the reward they are going to get for it.

L'Chaim and shalom.

[supernova]

91. That's just horrible!

then looked at me and said, do whatever you do but don't pray for me because I wanna make sure they're heard.

That is so rediculous on so many levels, my head is spinning. :crazy:

I can't think of anyone who would be a more of a Jew than Jesus.

I think it would be lovely if those of us with different perspectives could participate in the threads. I personally would learn so much more from jewish and gnostic thought for example.

[rasputin1952]

98. I would have been insulted as well...

but it shows the ignorance of so many that are CINO.

I had many a Jewish friend when grew up in NYC, (some had parents that had survived the holocast). I saw NO difference in worshipping the same God.

I learned much from a few of the Rabbi fathers of some of my friends. I have a deep and profound respect for Judaism, (as a Christian, I have little other option actually). A caveat however, I despise zealots of every or any religion or belief system.

Jews and Christians should realize that our similarities far outweigh our differences.

O8)

[TacticalPeek]

136. Its both hilarious and blasphemous,

the way fundies try to put limits on God.

Dummies.

[Maeve]

82. Hello, southerngirlwriter! A couple of notes

First--I found out about this thread by seeing the note in Ask Admin. You have Skinner's approval, so go for it.

Second, I suggest you make it a point NEVER to respond to flame attacks that might arise in such a thread. Hit "alert", pray for a speedy moderator response and go on. Perhaps a gentle "No, I don't agree with that and I don't want to argue it here" but little else.(my opinion from years of reading boards on-line and watching DU over the past two years--take it for what it's worth!) Think what you want to do before the situation arises, tho.

You might also consider (as someone else suggested) the Meeting Room as the best forum for this--it is a slower moving forum and less likely to be visited by trolls looking for trouble.

I think it is a very good idea and hope you get the best positive response that DUers are capable of (and we are capable of very good things!)

[fishnfla]

84. the God of your chioce in the church of your choice

but please, not here

[Kathy in Cambridge]

90. My sentiments exactly

[FlaGranny]

86. I have no problem with it.

I don't think most people will, religious or atheist. But there are a small handful of people here who will, believe me. They will post derogatory comments for sure. They just can't resist. If you want to do this and for all those who want to participate, the only way you'll be able to save your threads is with your ignore feature. Either that or don't reply to their posts. If you don't ignore, the posts will degenerate and the mods will wind up locking the threads.

[camero]

87. I don't see anything wrong with it.

I think it may bring more DUers to the Meeting room. And show some of the trolls who lurk here the scriptures that they don't want to face up to.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

89. Religion is personal/private. It should remain that way.

I'm a New Englander and there are many people of faith up here. However, culturally we tend to keep our religion to ourselves. People that prosletize are frowned upon. Like airing dirty laundry in public, religion is a private issue. I don't care if you're a Jehovah's Witness, a Jew, Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist. That's your choice.

I had many years of Catholic school to teach me that the Bible is really no pillar of morality. It is simply mythology and occasionally presents a good moral story like Aesop's fable or a Greek myth. My ethics and sense of social justice come from my parents and to a certain extent, growing up in a liberal and tolerant community like Cambridge. Many of the nuns in my school also caught the liberation theology bug in the '70s and went to places like Latin America to aid the poor-not convert them to Christianity.

If I wanted to learn about religion, I would patronize a religious board. As a half-assed Catholic, I'm going to hell anyway, according to most fundamentalist Christians.

Just my $.02...

[picus9]

106. Well put.

You're from Cambridge? I'm from Dorchester. I went to St Brendan's as a kid then on to Catholic Memorial and then to Holy Cross, so I am Catholic all the way through. I think it has taught me to realize that I'd take Catholicism over the more fundementalist protestant splinters.

The church has had its problems recently, but the way the parishoners in and around Boston have handled it has made me proud of my roots.

Jesus taught us to remember the golden rule. That is how we should live our lives. I'm a half-asseed catholic too. But I know that the true Philosophy of christ is one of love and acceptance and doing what is right, not some calvinist bullshit of toil and regret.

[MaineDem]

108. I was baptised at St Brendan's

I was born in Maine but my parents were living on Gallivan Blvd. My grandfather lived on Hilltop St.

My family were BC High guys. :D

Small world!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

111. Religion/Faith is like Sex-People Who Talk the Most About

often do the least. and you didn't see Catholics going door-to-door selling their credo. Religion is personal, I don't care if you worship a plant, just don't tell me about it.

It's funny now how Catholicism is the 'liberal' religion...

Do you still live in Dot?

[picus9]

120. Just moved back in July.

My wife is getting her grad degree in social work at BC.
I live up off of Adams street. Closer to the Milton line.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

122. Nice Neighborhood-lots of cafes and businesses popping up

:-)

[DS1]

117. I support this only in the sense

of possibly attracting more democrats.

Believe me, I won't see any of them. *click*

[RandomKoolzip]

93. Whatever.

If it's cool with the mods, I don't give a shit.

[buddhamama]

94. hello, southerngirlwriter

i am looking forward to your threads, and might participate myself.
we are in a time of turmoil, and imho, good loving vibes are what we need more of. compassion and understanding should be shared by us all--good karma is good karma.
it shouldn't become flamebait,although it may, and that would unfortunate. DUers have the option of ignoring your thread and respecting the faith of others, whether we 'believe' or not.
i was born and raised into a Catholic household, i've seen and felt the positive affect Faith can create in the world. i respect Jesus and his followers, as i do those who do not believe.
it is the individual who, based on actions, gets judged by me, not their Faith.

Good Luck!

[RedEarth]

97. Go for it

I think it's a great idea, however, do be prepared for some flames.

[amazona]

99. i don't see anything wrong with it

One thread every day or too shouldn't be a problem.

[Lars39]

100. I am a member of the WalkAway from Fundamentalism forum.

Proselytizing of any kind at WA would result in banning. Those that have been abused through their experiences with fundamentalism are VERY sensitive to even a whiff of proselytizing, even the innocuous "I'll pray for you" statements. We had many religious people that would come on board and abide by the rules at first, but then would gradually start proselytizing, and before you know it they would be shouting scripture in technicolor caps. :)
I would humbly suggest that whatever beliefs you(and others) want to extend in your thread be couched in "I believe..." statements instead of blanket statements that give the impression that your beliefs are the only truths. Many a flame war can be avoided this way. Just my 2.

[goobergunch]

101. I'm an atheist, and I have no objection to this. (n/t)

[Mass_Liberal]

103. maybe you could

send good vibes instead of prayers. Everyone digs good vibes and purple auras

[mr blur]

105. Then again...

Just thinking about it again, I can't help wondering what your reason/purpose is for wanting to do this. Do you think it might help people in some way? Do you think you should be trying to help people in some way? I'm not trying to be offensive here, really, it's just that, as an atheist, I still have things which I believe in and which are important to me but I don't feel the need to point them out to others every day. Or even once a week.
Personally, I feel that religion(s) are to blame for much "social injustice and history".

[Skittles]

107. sorry

I am thankful for the Ignore feature

[imhotep]

110. This is a political web site

not a church.
It makes me furious that religious nuts want to SHOVE their beliefs in our faces at every chance.

[Tinoire]

115. I don't think that's the idea at all

There are a lot of us who are religious and hurting over x or y issue. It would be nice to be able to draw spiritual strength from each other, from our friends, in time of need.

I've always thought that if the Left was smart, it would have done this a long time ago to combat the Irreligious Right that's twisted every verse and scripture out there.

All the major religions emphasize social justice, isn't it time we joined forces and dispelled the Right's myth that the Left is God-hating? Most of the Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Jews I know are Democrats because of the religious formation they were given. During the election of 2000, our Bishops were very clear that abortion, for instance, was important but nothing more than a political red herring and that people needed to be more concerned with social justice (in other words thumping for Gore). Social justice is a HUGE issue for us and it's supported throughout the entire Bible.

As a Christian, I am tired of seeing the Right appropriate religion and pervert it.

I realize such a thread would displease some DUers but they can very easily ignore it.

We are really not the enemy here.

Also, many times, there are DUers in such pain because of what's going on in their lives and in the world that it would do some of us much good to be able to draw strength from each other.

I know that when I see pictures like this one


all I can think is "Dear God, why?" The answer is there, but in times of darkness, I would be grateful to have other DUers explain to me, from a religious angle, what they think.

Progressive Christians don't really have a forum, that I know of, and we really do feel alone at times.

[rasputin1952]

118. That is precisely why the "hide" icon is there...

if you feel offended, either avoid the thread, or hide it. What's the big deal?

O8)

[Tinoire]

112. Go for it. There are lots of religious peopl here who would appreciate it

Social justice has been the cornerstone of Judaism and Christianity but sadly people have forgotten that and perverted so many things. I would read your threads with great interest and be very happy to know that fellow DUers were remembering each other in our prayers. There are so many DUers in dire straits right now and I love the idea of DUers supporting each other spiritually. I also love the idea that it might give non-religious DUers a good idea of how many religious people are in their midst and working towards the same cause; it would also give them a good understanding of where we're coming from on certain issues.

Peace


John Paul II warns that hunger constitutes a threat to peace in the new globalized world.

http://www.catholic.org/cathcom/international_story.php?id=5117

[proud patriot]

114. I pray , but refuse to belong to any organized religion

I have a bible and believe in Jesus teachings .

[scottcsmith]

116. I probably will not read it

Being Jewish, I'm not a big fan of the Christian bible. Scattered throughout the New Testament are verses that are very anti-Jewish. But, like someone complaining about something they see on TV, I can always change the channel.

That being said, I know many Christians who are comforted by scripture, so I think you should post as much as you want to. Surely there are other Christians here at DU that would be comforted by the scripture as well.

I do get defensive when it comes to organized efforts by Christian groups, such as the Southern Baptists, to try and convert Jews. I think many of these people mean well, but they do not realize that if a Jew converts to Christianity, they are no longer considered Jewish. I think it is very important for Christians to know the implications of efforts to convert Jews to Christianity. For instance, all Jews can return to Israel and gain Israeli citizenship. If a Jew converts to Christianity, they lose that right.

[rasputin1952]

119. As I stated in a previous post....

Jews and Christians have much more in common than not. It is a shame that most people have no concept that this is the same God.

Open the door, there is light out there.

O8)

[Liberal Veteran]

125. I don't have a problem with that at all.

One certain person on this board likes to launch in a tirade against me and call me "anti-theistic" everytime I criticize those who use religion as a weapon or a justification for hatred and oppression, but I read the Bible constantly and pray often. I call myself agnostic because I don't do organized religion but I have no problem with people of faith expressing their faith as long as they don't do it a manner that is mean-spirited.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

127. I think it is appropriate for the meeting room and you should:

make your intentions clear
make a request to others to debate religion elsewhere
hit the alert if/when you get attacked
see how it goes.

Prayers from those who are truly praying for others are always welcome.

BTW, I am gay and don't have an issue with non-judgemental, non-uptight Christians who know it is God's place to judge, not theirs.

Good luck.

[rasputin1952]

130. NSMA...

you never cease to impress me!

If I ever had a sister, I would hope she would be just like you!

:loveya: :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

133. Thanks

I would be honored to be your sister as long as you have no problem with Jobycom being your brother...we both claim each other as kin :D

[rasputin1952]

135. No sweat...

welcome to the Monkey House...LOL

:loveya:

[Dead_Parrot]

128. This pagan says "do it..."

As is often said: I dissagree with your beliefs, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say what you want.

I'll help you with the flames if the are any.

[KFC]

131. Do it, absolutely

I'll bet there are more Christian DU'ers than you think. As one, I would appreciate it.

[gyopsy]

132. I support it

I'm a christian and would have no problems. And you should have the right to post whatever you want, so long as it's not demeaning to other religions.

[Fenris]

134. As an agnostic/negative atheist, I would have no problem

Go for it. The Bible doesn't offend me, and neither do prayer requests.

[demindepublican]

137. Syndicate it ! I'll publish it as a feature !

#1 I subscribed because of your post and its responses.
#2 Please email me when you start ( [e-mail] )
#3 If it doesnt work out here, I will gladly publish on
http://www.geocities.com/demindepublican777/

[eileen_d]

138. Just another suggestion

I would not be offended by your posts if they appeared on DU, but if you really wanted to do it on a *daily* basis, what about getting your own web site? I am not saying this because I think the kind of posts you're talking about don't belong on DU, but if you had your own site you wouldn't run into any restrictions. I know the good thing about DU is that it is already an established community, but on your own site you would probably avoid any annoying flamefests.

I am not an expert on the current free web site offerings, but some of them come with "feedback" features where you can build your own little online community (don't they?) -- anyway here is a place to start, if you are interested: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Internet/On_the_Web/Weblogs/Tools/

I am not a Christian myself, but I am not a person who thinks people should hide their Christianity either (unfortunately I do know some people like that), so I appreciate your sincerity. Good luck!

[DrWeird]

139. What are you trying to do, win converts?

Because if I appreciated prostelitizing I wouldn't slam the door on the Jehovahs' Witnesses.

[Maddy McCall]

143. I thought the same thing, and fundy Christians like to go back to church

and brag about witnessing to the unwashed masses. I don't think DU needs to be used this way, personally.

I can just see this DUer sitting at her Women's Mission Union meeting and talking about how many DUers she is reaching. Since we are the lowest of the low, I am sure her peers will ooo and aaaah at her ability to get in the door here and then "save" us.

I don't like this SECULAR website being used for RELIGIOUS purposes--especially the LOUNGE--Take it to the meeting room, but not the Lounge.

If I want to have scriptures read to me, I'll go to church. Damn, you can't get away from this stuff at school now either. PLEASE don't polute DU with it.

[Kamika]

144. Thanks for the reminder!!!

Thanks for reminding me :) Today in church I'm gotta awe everyone with all the converts I've done of these lowest of the low :D

All my friends are gonna go ooo and aaaah and I'll FINALLY be the one of the popular girls.

Thanks for the tip!!!!


(play some super hero music)Kamika to the rescue of the lowest !!

Finally our super secret plan to convert DU to christianity (and burn the ones that refuse) has started!!

:yourock:

[corarose]

140. I have two Uncles who are both Preachers down south

You post a scripture everyday if you want to and I will read it.

It shouldn't be flame bait because we are DEMOCRAT'S right everyone? Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and some of us believe in God and do go to Church and read scriptures.

You post the thread and I will read it everyday!

God Bless

[jukes]

145. A serious answer.

No flames from this atheist. I admit that I would consider it a waste of my time to read your threads, and certainly won't bother, but for those that have an interest in such matters, post away.

I believe completely in your right to believe, and my right not to.





Changed my sig for this post; an indication of sincerety. Hope it took, apologies if it didn't.

:-)