Online gambling - What do you think?

[Silverhair]

No one is really talking about this very much, but it is an increasing problem. We all know how prevelant online casinos are, and how easy it is to play at one. All of them are located outside the U.S. Mostly they are in Central America, or the Carribean, but some are anywhere. I don't have figures at hand, but there are so many of them that the amount of money leaving the country must be quite a lot. Many have no or ineffectual regulation or oversight. Some, like the ones in the UK, are strictly monitored. And gambling can be an addictive behavior, although for most it will only be an expensive recreation.

What do we do? Try to shut it down? Or do we allow American casinos to get in on the action?

I must recuse myself from personal participation in this debate, because I personally profit from online gambling. My opinions would be influenced by my profit motive. No, I don't own an online casino nor do I work for one. Before moving to my current state, I was a professional poker player. Now I play online. In fact, as I type this I am also playing in two games at the same time - and yes, I am winning. (Two computers, two lines, two ISPs.) For those no familiar with it, online poker is a bit different from an online casino. Each of my opponents at the table is a real person somewhere. The site hosts the game and charges a small token amount from each pot for their services. Of course, one site can host thousands of games, so the token amounts from each hand add up real fast. Anyway, I will not participate in the discussion, except that I may provide factual information at times.

[arewethereyet]

1. just another fine way for foolish people to throw away money

and support orgnaized crime !

Have fun !

[MrChupon]

4. The same could be said for smoking a little weed.

The same could be said for smoking a little weed. People have a right to do what they wish with their own money. Online Gambling should be legalized (its a grey-area now), regulated, and taxed in the USA.

I've heard a comparison before that gambling is to the left what Pornography is to the right. Right-wingers see little to no good in porn, and left wingers see little to no good in gambling.

As the only gambler amongst my liberal group of friends, I've noticed that this is a pretty astute comparison. Rather than judging gambling as greedy or useless, I urge people to look at it like any other crime of vice. That is, if you feel drugs and prostitution should be legalized and regulated, please afford gamblers the same chance.

[arewethereyet]

9. you bet

I didn't say it should be squashed, have at it !

So long as you don't infringe on my life, liberty and property I don't care what you do. Cross that line and its another matter completely.

Gamble away...
legalize all drugs (imagine the savings !)...
get out or people's bedrooms (see caveat above)...

its a free country, lets make it that way for real.

[amazona]

12. well i was a professional gambler and i never heard that

Casinos exist to make money off of stupid people. Perhaps stupid people are more likely to be attracted to authoritarian or conservative regimes, I don't know, but the players I've known came from all walks and all belief systems.

Most all gamblers I've known are for socialized medicine or for a Canadian type health care system, but this is because gamblers are older -- depending on the casino -- sometimes MUCH older than the average population. The conservative ones just whisper and look nervous before muttering that health care should be taken out of the hands of the insurance companies. Perhaps they are afraid of being overheard by their fellow Nazis.

Anyways...
If you think right-wingers don't see any good in porn, you just don't know any right-wing males very well. They are great consumers of porn of all kinds. It was a wingnut who introduced me to what he thought was a wonderful new porn theme -- "scrambled egg" porn. Sick puppy, was all I could say to that!

Gamblers can be right or left, porn lovers can be right or left, and there are tons of gambling porn readers out there...

[arewethereyet]

13. interesting ramble but you fail to address your point

what possible other purpose could there be than for casinos to exist to seperate fools from their money ? These are not games of chance.

[Silverhair]

16. If you really know what you are doing, the casino can be beaten.

I have done it, consistenly, as well as playing poker.

[amazona]

18. yeah but it's not for enough compared to IRL

The online play seems to yield too little pay for too much effort in my humble opinion. Well, I feel the same way about professional video poker. It hardly seems worth the carpal tunnel. If I must be driven back to the casino, it will have to be blackjack. I am so burned out that I'm not about to jump back in unless there's a very high E.V. Perhaps I will get back into it one day but right now I will just enjoy being poor and lazy. :-)

[Silverhair]

21. I would rather have live play too.

Online, I can't pick up tells. But it is too far to a casino. At least the rake is lower, there is no dealer to toke, I don't have to put up with smoke, and I can fart if I need to. For me, online is the only game there is. I won't play in a home game. I want the protection of a casino.

So far I haven't had any trouble with the honesty of an online site. But poker sites need repeat business. I have come to question the program integrity of one site. (Wheeee. I just clobbered a guy. He tried to bluff me when I was holding a straight.)

[arewethereyet]

20. then you are not the fool in question

but you DO know that the floor is packed with others that leave lighter than when they arrived

[Silverhair]

25. Of course. They didn't build that place to give money away. n/t

[amazona]

17. sorry the point I was trying to make

I was referencing the claim the poster made that liberals are into porn while wingers are into gambling and each doesn't see the value of the other vice, which is just a mistaken claim on the face of it. People of all types are into both gambling and porn.

[Silverhair]

15. He is right. Many pro gamblers would love to have socialized

medicine. If gambling is your only income, you can't buy health insurance. The companies just won't sell it to you.

For that matter, try going to the bank for a loan.

[amazona]

19. well actually

I went 15 years without health insurance and was only able to start buying it when I was playing for a blackjack team. So go figure. This was Blue Cross/Louisiana. I never really knew why. I heard the Clintons did something to stop health insurance companies from going back to your birth and denying you insurance based on long-past events, and maybe that's why. But I wasn't too aware in those years.

Because I was a contractor, I put my income as self-employment income, not gambling winnings. So I had to pay Social Security tax but I could also have an SEP-IRA. Maybe this is the difference? Many gamblers put it as "miscellaneous income -- gambling winnings." I don't think that counts as earned income although the IRS is happy to tax you on it anyway!

[Silverhair]

26. That's the difference.

I listed myself to the IRS as "Professional Gambler". The problem with the insurance companies is that they ask your occupation, and there are some occupations that are unacceptable risks. Pro Gambler is one of them. If you tell them you are something else they will let you pay premiums to them, but then if you have a serious claim and they check and find out your profession is gambler, then they refund your premiums. No interest - thank you -Policy null from the start - bye.

I really don't like the insurance companies. I used to own an insurance agency and I know from the inside how they operate.:puke: :grr:

[librechik]

2. in general, I think gambling is bad karma

and I have a strong feeling that Jesus, whose ethhical teachings I admire, is against it.

But existentially speaking, I suppose since it's happening and probably can't be stopped, we might as well regulate the hell out of it and profit from it. As a progressive I suggest a percentage should go to anti-addiction classes and financial aid for the addict's families, if we're really going to support it (that might ward off lawsuits)

Feh, it just seems like trouble we don't want, like invading a small country in the mideast or something. Seems so simple at first...

Let people who want it go do it, I say, and leave me alone. Especially with the GD popups! Ack!

But hey, my math genius kid earned his RT airfare to Australia and back twice with online gambling. He has a system.

Rotsa Ruck

[radwriter0555]

3. Great fun when played with restraint and discipline... If you aren't a

good gambler, no sense in wasting your money and time really.

casino on net is a good place to play live action for free.

[amazona]

5. beware the man with invisible dice

I've never seen any reason to disregard this piece of advice but I played blackjack not poker. Perhaps there is more honesty in the poker sites, I don't know. A very well-regarded professional gambler of my acquaintance was ripped off for $300,000 when the online casino closed without paying him. It was an offshore sports betting site. My friend is not allowed to place bets greater than $500 at the Vegas books, so he has to use teams to place his bets there -- it gets unwieldy. The offshore site was booking $50,000 bets. But heck you can book bets of any size if you don't intend to pay off!

I know some other professionals who are exploiting the online casinos but it sounds like more trouble than it is worth. The honest ones have been kicking people off for winning shockingly small sums of money. It is too much trouble to keep getting new credit cards in new names just for a couple hundred dollars or so.

It's probably different for poker since the casino is just a dealer rather than being your opponent. I'm afraid we blackjack types are not usually the same as the poker players. Perhaps now that online betting allows poker play to take place without any human contact being involved, more of us will be attracted to it.

As far as should it be legal? Nah, of course not. It's a totally immoral industry really. It destroy tons of families, just as regular casinos do. But I doubt anything can or will be done. Besides, you could always argue that someone idiotic enough to blow all their credit on an internet casino is getting exactly what they deserve. It is illegal to place wagers across interstate telephone lines, so in theory you could be prosecuted for placing bets in an offshore gambling casino. In reality, it never happens -- but when you are cheated, you have no recourse in a court of law since you were engaging in an illegal activity.

[arcos]

7. there are good companies and there are bad companies...

they usually treat the players the same way they treat the employees. There are great online casinos and sportsbooks who pay on time, have fair terms, etc, and treat their employees great.

I have a few acquaintances who used to work in an online gambling company. One day they went to work... and there was nothing. The company just disappeared and they didn't even bother paying the employees' salaries.

[amazona]

14. yes and then the owners re-open under another name

I didn't realize the employees got ripped off too. Sad.

[arcos]

6. It should be regulated, everywhere...

I am biased and probably won't participate much either... but it is a very interesting topic. I'm from Costa Rica, and online gambling has given a huge boost to the economy in the last few years.

[arewethereyet]

10. impossible

not difficult, impossible.

[arcos]

11. it is easier to regulate than to outlaw...

(I'm not saying you advocate that)

but what's the other option? gray area?

[Skip Intro]

8. Its supposed to be a free country

If people earn money, after taxes and fees and tolls and bla bla bla, what's left is theirs (OURS!).

I don't get the "should we allow" bs. Don't get it on gambling, don't get it on drug use, don't get it on sex/prostitution - I mean, wtf?!

We were all born into this world equal, so says our Constitution. Who the hell am I to tell others what they can and cannot do within the realm of their personal decisions? Who the hell is the government to tell me?

Sorry, I'm sure this is a good question, like the legalizing drugs threads etc. But where is the controlling authority of freedom? How does someone, or some collection of someones - gov., get to decide what I do with my own money (what's left of it) as long as I'm not intruding on the rights of others?

If we're a free country, then let's be a free country. If we aren't, then we shoud shut the hell up about being free.

IMHO

[Fuzz]

22. Where do you play poker online?

I've been playing for quite some time at truepoker and partypoker for fake money and doing real well. I have played for a number of years in AC, but not so much recently because my two young kids make it hard to get away. I started playing for real money just a week or so ago on partypoker and I'm down just a little, but having a good time and learning a lot.

I've played in one big tournament so far and out of 377 people finished 18th, four out of the money :( (It was a qualifying tourney for a much bigger tourney) I won and finished in the money in several of the smaller one table tourneys too.

[bhunt70]

23. I play at pokerroom.com

...

[Silverhair]

27. I bounce around among

the Party/Empire/Multi sites, Golden Palace, Poker Stars, Ultimate. I'm mad at True Poker over a customer service issue, but not about the game itself. I don't feel comfortable at Paradise. There seem to be just tooooo many suck-outs. I can't prove anything, but I stay away. I have played everywhere to get the first deposit bonuses. I will play one place for one day, then the next day a different place. I don't want the regular players at a place to learn my play. If they see you every day, then they notice that you rarely lose a session, so they know that you are good and then they are carefull with you. If you only drop in once a week, usually it won't be the same players and nobody learns you. Of course I use a different nickname at each site.

Of course that means that I have a lot of money in different poker accounts in those places, but itis all winnings from previous games. And every once in a while I skim off my profits.

I use Neteller for the web wallet.

[Systematic Chaos]

28. Ah, thank you very much for the insight!

If I can get a few bucks together I think I'll try doing the same. And none of the sites will have me as progrocker69. :D

[Fescue4u]

24. Coincidently...Im playing right now

poker that is (paradise poker)

Actually its already illegal, but its completely impossibly to enforce without resorting to Nazi like tactics and having government run our ISP (NO THANKS!)