NEED ANY ADVICE: He's Going To Kill My Sister-In-Law

[rucky]

Long story short. Teen love, guy's an abusive thug. She doesn't find out until she's pregnant how positively violently psychotic he really is...and now her life is in imminent danger.

Where it stands now: She got out of the relationship fairly intact. Now she's managing my wife's clothing store and is a great mom trying to make up for some lost time. He's still a thug. And when he's on a drug binge, or when a court date approaches, he starts terrorizing her. She gets the threats, kidnap attempts, broken windows, etc etc. Hard to get an enforcable protective order, though, because THIS GUY IS SLICK, it almost always ends up being her word against his. He's facing charges for child support and stalking/harassment. There is supposedly a protective order against him, issued when he made bail last month. Court dates coming up, he's tried to sweet talk her out of testifying, then quickly resorts to threats. He's not even supposed to contact her. She calls the cops every time he does, but can not/will not try to get his bail remanded.

Yesterday, he got some chick to plant drugs in her car and call 911. Police believe my sister-in-law, but have to treat it like a blah blah blah. He keeps calling her and threating her. Cops say they can't do anything until he tries something - despite the protective order (which apparently never really got filed with the courts), and they can't file an emergency protective order until Monday.

This morning, he threatened to kill her, hung up, then called the police to say SHE was threatening HIM. Now the cop she spoke to this time is uninterested in protecting her because it's now he said/she said. We're trying to get ahold of the DA who's handling the harassment case, but she's not returning her calls.

This is escalating quickly. I don't want to have to protect her without help, because he definately has a gun & i will not use one.

Any ideas for bringing this guy in TODAY - before these threats become imminent?

[rucky]

1. Fuck it. I'm going to the DA's.

thanks anyways.

[swag]

32. Good plan.

[jukes]

2. mini-cassette

contact-mike for fone, condenser mike for face-offs. about $75. total at radio-shack. she must protect herself cops; are USELESS in thes situ's and don't want to deal w/it. she will need uncontestable proof. "witnesses" are useless.

or hire some1 to kneecap this bully.

[China_cat]

36. It's not just useless

as we found out in the case of that California woman who had a restraining order but whose ex took their 2 girls and killed them. The cops flatly stated that she didn't have any RIGHT to expect protection...and the court upheld it.

[jukes]

43. how tragic!

cops are mostly garbage collectors that pck up the filth that gets left behind. or their security guards for the wealthy/influential.

i retired very young...

[uppityperson]

50. buy a suction cup wiretapping thing at radio-shack, cheap

hook the suction cup part to the phone, the other end goes into a cassette recorder. Way cheap. Good luck.

[Bassic]

3. I'm sorry I don't know what to say.

This has never happened to anyone I know.

[supernova]

4. Move her

to another location other than where she is staying now for starters. He probably is overly familiar with her routine. So change it up.

I'm sorry this is happening to your SiL and your family. Honestly, it might be worth it to look into hiring a body guard for the weekend anyway.

[rucky]

26. Yeah, she won't be staying at her home for awhile.

She's at the shop right now, and the local police know about him. She has to work and she's in the shop alone a good part of the day. I don't know what we can do about that, since my wife has to watch our daughter while I work (and vice-versa), and i'll be damned if I'm going to bring my daughter into the shop.

[Orangepeel]

39. security camera in the store?

that can't hurt

[Fleshdancer]

5. Is there a way to pay for personal security?

I have no idea how much something like that would cost but if this were my daughter, I would feel *a little* bit better if there was someone around making sure he couldn't physically get to her. Aside from that, I think contacting the DA is a good thing. She should also be recording EVERYTHING.

Is there a women's shelter you could call to ask for advice? They might know someone within the legal system that may be of some help.

:hug:

Please keep us updated.

[Beware the Beast Man]

6. In all due respect, this isn't the place for such advice.

Get help now, but not here.

[Richardo]

10. I agree - get professional help for her...

...the Lounge (or any internet message board) is not the appropriate place for a problem of this magnitude.

[BikeWriter]

7. I convinced my ex BIL I'd kill him...

if he attacked my SIL again. He believed me. He's 6'5" and was an augmentee cop at the time.

[Deep13]

8. Sounds like she's a little retiscent to co-operate with the DA.

She can't be dubious about that. She cannot talk to the defendant and must report to the DA all the attempts to manipulate her testimony.

That he said/she said cases cannot be proven is an urban legend. People have been sent to the electric chair on that. The jury can believe who it wants and if the harassment to change her story is documented, it is evidence of consciousness of guilt.

"because he definately has a gun & i will not use one"

Morgue is full of such people.

[BikeWriter]

11. Yep, the meek have not inherited the Earth yet.

:(

[rucky]

28. dude, she's testifying.

and she doesn't talk to him. he contacts her using different caller ID's all the time. All she tells him is she's calling the cops & he doesn't give a shit.

I spoke to the DA & it takes 4 weeks to remand bail (his trial is in 3 weeks). Go figure. We have to wait for him to get arrested.

I know the police COULD make an arrest if they really wanted to. That's what's so frustrating about this.

[KG]

9. one of these might get his attention

first you swing for the knees, he won't expect it. then when he grabs his leg, he will expose his head. then you can easily knock some sense into him.

[rucky]

29. that's my protection of choice.

for some reason, I won't get a gun, but an Easton's in my car just in case.

[petronius]

38. Put a glove and ball, and some old workout clothes in too...

...I think you can get in trouble for just carrying a bat, since it's obviously a weapon.

[MadHound]

12. Well, first off

Move her, NOW! Secondly, you may be reticent to use a gun, but I would still suggest that your SIL get one. If she is inexperienced with a gun, the best gun that she can have would be a twelve guage pump action shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot. Third, get your SIL a BIG dog, Rottie, Pit, Doberman, German Shepard. Not only will said dog be a great alarm, most people think twice about entering a house uninvited when they're faced with a large snarling dog. Fourth, get recording equipment both for the telephone and for when you meet in person with this asshole. Evidence to take before the DA. And you might also want to consider putting up a few cameras in order to film this prick breaking windows, etc.

But again, most importantly, MOVE YOUR SIL NOW. I know it's a pain in the ass, but what idiotboy can't find, he can't kill.

[Sugar Smack]

18. A gun and a Doberman

are both very good ideas. Aside from moving her.:thumbsup:

[MadHound]

20. I'm not a violent person

I've walked away from more confrontations that I can count. But I've always believed in having a big dog of some sort for the house. I know from a misspent youth how easy it is to get around electronic alarms and such, but unless you are willing to kill the dog, which is a noisy business to say the least, you aren't getting past a big dog.

Virtually all intruders will move on to another house when they hear a dog barking in yours. And you don't even have to treat the dog mean to make it your protector, in fact quite the opposite. Treat the dog with love and kindness and you a friend for life you will defend you and yours to the death.

And nothing puts the fear of god into an intruder like the sound of a pump shotgun being cycled.

[Love Bug]

13. One thing she can do is stop talking to him

She should never speak to him unless is it absolutely necessary and then only if she can record the conversation.

Does he have a set of keys to her car? How else would someone be able to plant drugs in it? If so, she should get the locks changed or, better yet, get a different car.

Frankly, she should move somewhere else before he shows up with a gun to "teach the bitch a lesson."

It might help if you talk to the police yourself about getting a protection order for your wife's sake since he presumeably knows where her clothing store is and that his ex works there. I would worry for your wife's safety, if I were you.

[radwriter0555]

16. She needs to get a new phone, stop answering the old one. Drop the child

support case and leave town. Forget everyone she ever knew and get on with her life somewhere else until he kills himself.

There is nothing the cops can do to stop him. It's just how the idiotic US justice system doesn't work.

She's not helping.

She's answering his calls and not yours?

She is totally sucked into the whole drama and isn't helping herself in this.

It's horrible for everyone involved... I'm so sorry.

Ultimately the only thing she can do here is leave town and get a new life. This is in her power to do; anything else is futile.

[jeanarrett]

49. No. The DA is not returning phone calls.

[sistersofmercy]

14. I've been in her shoes

It's not pretty. I had to move. My weirdo stalker filed a restraining order against me after I got one against him. He threatened me in court while the judge had not come to the bench and then walked out. There were other people in the court who heard his threat and still nothing was done. Restraining orders are a worthless piece of paper. In fact the weirdo stalker made it a sport out of showing me just how much he could get by with. It is about her word against his unfortunately, I've been there. Weirdo stalker bought a horse and signed my name to the papers then tried to make me responsible for the boarding. I changed my phone number, he paid a buddy who worked for the phone co to get my number. I put a trap on my phone but because he called from payphones and other peoples phones I couldn't prove harassment and violating the restraining. This guy made my life a living hell and I had to move. Every legal option I had I tried. When it was clear that he would not stop and I had exhausted every effort to legally stop him, I moved.
Good Luck and I'll I can say is, she should never have contact with him and be very cautious everywhere she goes. Beyond that I can't offer any advice for legal action I was met with legal red tape at every turn. The system didn't work for me.

[radwriter0555]

17. The US justice system isn't designed to prevent crime, merely to prosecute

after it's been committed. It's AWFUL.

I'm sorry you went through all that... I hope you're okay now. (((Big hugs)))

[rucky]

31. do they read a manual or something?

all this because of one fucking psychopath - upturning all these lives.

the Inuit tribes would just kill people like this & now I know why.

[derby378]

15. She needs a gun. Seriously.

She has the right to defend herself. A few weeks ago, down here in Texas, some demon straight out of white-trash Hell kidnapped his ex-girlfriend and kept her prisoner for 19 days in a condemned house, during which time he chained her up, locked her in a trunk with a running garden hose, raped her, inflicted at least two third-degree burns on her back with a blowtorch, and "doctored" those wounds by splashing liquid Drano on them. It's a miracle she's still alive.

I feel for you. My best wishes to your sister-in-law. She needs a gun.

[brook]

19. IMHO, she ought to

contact a local woman's shelter. They can counsel her better than others because they deal with problems like hers every day. I'd also think her best option would be to relocate. Restraining orders don't stop abuse, harrassment or killings, for that matter.

Whatever course is taken, my hope is for her safety, your peace of mind and some jail time for the bil.

[Arugula Latte]

21. A neighbor girl went through this, as well.

She was young -- maybe 19 or 20, and some psycho guy (her ex boyfriend) stalked her, harassed her, etc. The cops also said that nothing could be done until HE did something. Finally a woman cop pulled her aside and said: "Protect yourself. Get a gun." Sure enough, the psycho broke into her house one day. She shot him dead. She was not prosecuted because it was so clearly a case of self-defense.

[rucky]

30. Lots of people have been saying "get a gun"

I'll suggest it to her.

I'm for the Brady Bill and all, but it seems like this guy's going to blow any minute.

[Susang]

22. Contact this place,

To help you obtain evidence: http://www.uspystore.com/

[davsand]

23. An OP is a useless scrap of paper, and is dangerous in some cases.

An Order of Protection (called a restraining order in some places) is absolutely useless in really protecting a person that is in danger. I have seen it happen more than once that a woman gets an OP and then is hurt even more by the abuser before the police can get there or do anything.

My advice echos that of some of the other people in here saying get her the hell away from the situation. Send her out of town with the child (children?) for a while until this calms down, or else get her into some kind of secure women's shelter where she will be safer.

The shelters deal with this kind of stuff all too often and they know how to deal with both the abusers and the women who are living with it. She needs counseling RIGHT NOW, and as much as you love her and care, you are probably not trained for this job.

The emotional part of this is simply overwhelming. Unless a professional helps her she is possibly gonna be left in this state for a very long time, and THAT is almost as hazardous as the current abuser is. The cycle of abuser and victim does not end easily, and the only way to stop it is to get her some help and get her OUT of the situation.

Just my two cents, but PLEASE call the local women's shelter.



Laura

[DS1]

24. Pre-emptive strike

[rucky]

27. Bush can use that excuse to start a war...

but if I try it, I'll be the one who ends up in jail.

My (good) bother-in-law and I keep driving by his home, but we don't know where he is right now.

[meegbear]

35. Yep, contact your friendly local Hells Angels

[Kashka-Kat]

25. Natl domestic violence hotline - 1800-799-SAFE

1800-799-SAFE
www.ndvh.org

Assume the threats are real-- when she attempts to leave ... or break away... is the most DANGEROUS time.

[LeftyMom]

33. I went through something like this, eventually he did try to kill me twice

If I had it to do all over again, I'd have got a gun.

Really, in these types of situations you can't count on the police to defend you and even if by some miracle he does go to jail, he'll start in again as soon as he's out (it happened to my mother.) Really, the best case scenario for actually stopping the harassment is that the crazy bastard comes to her house and she relieves him of his mortal coil.

[rucky]

34. Thanks for all the advice & support, everybody!

I spoke to the DA & they can't do anything until he does something. Same as the cops.

We all really think he's going to pull something tonight so here's the plan:

- SIL & daughter are staying with us. I live in a secure building w/ a balcony.
- It's a small town & my father-in-law is trying to find him & will be following him.
- We've got a bat for protection FWIW, but I'll talk to SIL about getting a gun.
- Going to Radio Shack to see about a device that records cell-phone conversations.

I'll keep you posted.

Peace!

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. I think you need to talk to your DA again and remind him of Ohio's

antistalking laws...

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=122_HB_93

This man should already be in jail for this.

[rucky]

45. thanks! I printed it out.

she just spent her paycheck on a tape recorder that works on her cel-phone, too!

we'll be handing the DA a big gift.

[BreweryYardRat]

40. I don't think you can get a gun in time-background checks and all, so...

Get a friend you can trust. Have him run out to Home Depot or Lowe's, and get a couple solid, sharp machetes, and/or good hatchets or fire axes. If there's a cylindrical piece of wood long enough and solid enough to make a good spear available, have him get that and cut one end into a point right there at the store. Then have him get the stuff back to you ASAP. Make sure everything's nice and sharp, and give a weapon to each family member. No sense in taking chances with a crazy person. If he so much as pokes his nose into your house, you have the right of self-defense. Exercise it with vigor.

If I'm mistaken and background checks don't apply for shotguns, and you can get one in time, do that.

[benEzra]

42. Every gun sale involves a point-of-sale background check

that takes about 5 minutes. If she has a clean record, the background check wouldn't cause a problem.

Waiting periods could be a problem, but they're also a rarity in the U.S., particularly for long guns (and have nothing to do with background checks).

[BreweryYardRat]

54. My bad, I thought they were one and the same.

Sorry. Go for the shotgun, then.

[benEzra]

41. Here's one good, inexpensive choice:

http://www.mkssupply.com/carbine.asp

It uses 9mm pistol ammunition, so it's very gentle to shoot, much easier to aim than a 9mm handgun, simple to operate, and quick to load. Only a 10-round capacity, but that's better than nothing. Admittedly less lethal than a shotgun, but a heck of a lot easier for a novice to shoot well.

A .38 revolver would also be a good choice, easier to secure from children (lockable pistol box is $19.95 at Wal-Mart), but handguns are harder to shoot well than a carbine.

If she does get a gun, make sure THE STALKER DOES NOT FIND OUT ABOUT IT. It would be tempting to take the "don't come after me, I've got a gun" line, but you don't want him to adjust his tactics to try to catch her unarmed. Also, if he finds out she owns a gun, he could try to "work the system" and take out a restraining order against her to try to get her gun taken away and make her vulnerable.

The advice to consider going incognito, moving, and/or contacting a battered women's shelter is good. Sticking around and hoping the stalker doesn't escalate things may not be the best choice, unless the alternatives are just not financially feasible.

[Bunny]

48. Get her this book: The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker.

Insist that she read it, and you and your wife read it as well. It is very informative, has a lot of helpful information, and may help to impress on her the seriousness of the situation she is in (not to imply that she doesn't already know that, but it really brings that point home).

[jukes]

44. no offense intended, seriously

pacifist=victim. get 2 guns, 1 for you, 1 for her; and learn how to use them.

hope i haven't offended, but your likely alternative is to watch helplessly while your sister is gutted like a fish.

[rucky]

46. no offense taken.

and even if I were offended, you'd be pretty safe :)

After reading this entire thread, I have seriously reconsidered the gun thing.

[MadHound]

47. Like I said earlier,

If you get a gun, get a twelve gauge pump. It is the easiest gun in the world to use for self defense, just point it in the general direction and pull the trigger. You want 00(double aught) buckshot as the load.

Go out to the country or to a shooting range to take a few practice shots to get the feel of the gun, it's got a bit of a kick.

Take care

[jukes]

51. difference of opinion

a breaktop 12 gauge, sawed to legal 18" is easier to learn Y use. not as good in an actual combat situ, but deadly enough for this scenario.

won't jam, you've got 1 instant backup load, & easy to reload quickly enough if needed.

just my opionion, not dissing your choice.

.38 chief's spl is the way to go for concealment, w/hogue grips.

[Maddy McCall]

53. Difference of opinion, again.

Get her a .45 auto. I bought the Ruger P345 for protection of myself and my son. I've fired it a few times. An awesome small-but-lethal hand gun.

She needs to put the gun in her car so that she has it when she has to leave the house, driving to work and back. One of the most dangerous places for women is leaving or getting into their vehicle.

[rucky]

55. You guys may as well be speaking Chinese

But I like the sound a shotgun makes when you cock it.

[Maddy McCall]

52. Call your district attorney. Call your sheriff. Call your police chief.

Demand that the protective order be enforced.

Tell her NOT to answer the phone. Hook up an answering machine with time/date stamp. Let him rant on the phone. Call police or deputies to her house to hear the threats.

Demand that his bail be revoked. Why is she not willing to do this? It's the ONLY thing that will protect her--for him to be in custody.

[sbj405]

56. Rucky, please check in and let us know everyone is ok.

:hug: