Barry Bonds hitting .190, 0 HRs, 1 RBI.

[maveric]

Do you think this will continue? Or will Sir Barry come back with big numbers?

[Blue_Tires]

1. look for him to get 'injured' again

as he hopes the heat will simmer down for a bit (as he did last year)....Bonds and the Giants have already been pushing the 'bonds has been playing with serious injury' meme a week into the season...

the trouble is healthy or no, bonds does not have much time left, so i think he may retire once he is on the 60-day DL again (my estimate is about 3 weeks from now)...he obviously wants to walk away from the game leaving people to believe what they want to believe, while he lives the life of a recluse.

[Texasgal]

2. Fuck Barry Bonds...

Fucking DOPER!

[wain]

17. Sums it up very nicely for me

And he's not the only one.

:nopity:

[reyd reid reed]

3. Boppin' Barry

Has bopped his last. It's gonna continue; maybe not at .190 but I don't think he's gonna get much over .220 or so. The things he's done to and put into his body over the past 6-8 years is catching up with him, coupled with the forced abrupt withrawal of any *ahem* 'supplements'-- you can't just stop that stuff cold without risking all kinds of things happening to you. And, while that's bad enough...the cheating aspect...that's not even my biggest issue with him. He doesn't want to break any records or reach any milestones out of respect for the game -- he wants to do it out of respect for himself. It's all about Bonds. The Ego that Ate San Francisco.

He won't last past the break.

[liberaltrucker]

4. Must be off the juice

for now, anyway:sarcasm:

[reyd reid reed]

5. Giants are gonna be at Coors

Next week...maybe next weekend? I'm not sure. It's gonna be a fuckin' circus.

Blech. That's another issue. He's a Distraction. Tonight's game against the Dodgers, I think they've spent at least as much time talking about The Ego as they have the game. I'm Sick of it. SicksicksicksickSICK. Rockies are actually playing decent ball right now. THAT'S what the Post and the News and the Gazette should be covering...not the juiceless wonder.

But will they?

Noooooooooooooooo...you watch.

[liberaltrucker]

8. KOA(or as I call it KKKOA)

Actually does decent Rockies coverage.

As for RMN and DP, look for all Barry all
the time.:puke:

BTW, I once lived in Delta, then Northglenn...
until I met a Southern Belle in Alabama.:)

[reyd reid reed]

9. Ain't that the coincidence...

I was once a Southern Belle in Alabama...before I moved to Colorado Springs.

('course, I was a twelve-year-old Southern Belle, but who's countin'? I stopped doin' that when I ran out of fingers and toes...)

[liberaltrucker]

10. Life is very unpredictable, doncha know

:)

[enigmatic]

6. Look at Sosa's numbers

When he got off the juice. That's Bonds' future.

[reyd reid reed]

7. Yup

and no one picked Sosa up this year, either. Nationals offered him a minor league contract so, last I heard, he was either planning on retiring and spending the summer on his yacht (awwww, poor baby) or going to play in Japan.

[Arkham House]

11. Not to inject common sense into this discussion--

--or anything like that...but may I point out that Bonds will be 42 in a few months, and missed almost all the 2005 season? Historically, any player who misses a season loses something when they try to come back. At his age, it's not surprising that Bonds is having trouble getting back to his old self. He's also having knee problems, which is hurting his ability to drive the ball. Too much--much too much--"credit" has been given to steroids the past decade or so. I suspect that the total impact of them has been to *reduce* offensive numbers, in the aggregate, since there's lots of anecdotal evidence that at least as many pitchers have used them as hitters. This doesn't mean that some individual numbers haven't been helped by the juice--but without it, I'm pretty sure that the total offense since 1995 would be at least as high as it has been. I think we're seeing a brand-new myth emerging right in front of our eyes, very similar to the myth that the introduction of a so-called "lively ball" enhanced offensive numbers in the 20s, when that was pure, total BS. The smaller parks, the impact of metal bats in the lower levels of the game, increased training and weights, and simply the realilization that old superstitions about the game just weren't true--ie, that you can't drive the ball to the opposite field for power--this was *much* more significant to our offense-laden era than the juice ever was. Like McCarthyism, this hysteria will pass sooner or later, but not before the myths proliferate, and we all do and say things we'll be ashamed of a few years down the road...and while I'm at it--since when are baseball fans morally outraged by "cheating", anyway? This is a classic example of a bunch of writers and pols having a public fit of morality...and God preserve us...

[Oeditpus Rex]

12. I resent the rhetorical question

"since when are baseball fans morally outraged by 'cheating,' anyway?"

I always have been.

Case in point: 1968, Dodgers vs. Giants, Don Drysdale chasing the record (then) for consecutive scoreless innings. Giants load the bases and Drysdale hits Dick Dietz — but Harry Wendlestedt, being wonderfully human, rules Dietz didn't try to get out of the way. Drysdale pitches out of the inning, gets the shutout and gets the record in his next start.

I'm a Dodgers fan to the bone, but in my head there's always been an asterisk next to Drysdale's name because of Wendlestedt's call. (The record was broken in '88 by Orel Hershisher, though.)

Now — tell me how juicing would help a pitcher. Add three or four MPH to his fast ball? Most major league players can hit gas; otherwise, Nolan Ryan et al would never have lost.

Dope won't help the breaking ball and it'd likely hurt the change. And it sure won't help control nor how a pitcher thinks.

There's a difference between hysteria and outrage. This is outrage. And to true baseball fans, it's righteous outrage.

Edit: Bonds is hitting .174 now. He was 0 for 2 tonight with a walk.

[Arkham House]

13. You make some excellent points--

...but I'm still not convinced. First off--I agree about the 1968 incident, and Drysdale's record is absolutely taintd. (Wasn't Hersheimer's record affected by a similar situation? I can't quite recall...) (For that matter, Dimaggio's 56-game record is tainted in exactly the same way...as is the 1910 AL batting championship, and Cobb's "400" in 1922, and a few others.) What I was referring to, I guess, was the amused toleration that such things as juicing the ball, stealing signs, and corking bats, have always gotten from fans and writers. If we're going to keep Bonds and NcGwire out of the Hall, then why not kick out Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford? I genuinely don't see the moral difference between breaking the rules in your equipment, and breaking the rules in your body. As for the pitchers--well, I'm not entirely sure there's that much difference between the ability, say, to throw it at 92 and 98, and the ability of a hitter to hit the ball an extra twenty feet. Surely the speed of a fastball has an itegral part to play in a pitcher's success? Yes, hitters are trained to hit fastballs at any speed--the good ones, that is. But that surely doesn't mean that the difference between a mediocre fastball, and a good one, wouldn't matter immensely to a borderline pitcher? Having said all this, I want to make it clear that I do *not* approve of cheating in any form, and I think making an example of a few steroid-positive players is a fine idea...and I apologize if I offended anyone, that certainly wasn't my intention. But I do think the idea that the steroid era is something unique morally in baseball history is an exaggeration, and that we are in danger of a classic witchhunt...

[Oeditpus Rex]

14. I'm trying to think of an argument

for Perry, Ford and the hundreds of other pitchers who loaded up or cut baseballs.

But I cannot. You raise a valid point, sir — one I had previously not considered.

And what of the catchers? Jim Bouton told this story in "Ball Four": An umpire once caught on to Ford cutting balls with his wedding ring and went to the mound and told him, "Whitey, go to the clubhouse. Your jockstrap needs fixing. And when you come back, it'd better be without that ring." The job then went to Elston Howard, who cut the ball on a shin-guard buckle before throwing it back.

The only pitchers who'd get a pass are those who were throwing the spitter when it was outlawed in 1920, since baseball allowed them to continue throwing it as their careers depended on it. But then, could not the argument be raised that players taking steroids before baseball outlawed them be allowed to continue?

It's indeed quite the ethical dilemma.

Re Cobb's .400: I don't recall if 1922 was the year without looking it up. Was that the infamous incident where the St. Louis third baseman played deep and allowed Joe Jackson to get seven bunt singles in a doubleheader on the last day of the season, thereby allowing him the opportunity to pass Cobb for the batting title? Or was that the 1910 you refer to?

(Now that I think about it, I'd guess it was 1910. I recall a photo in Cobb's ghosted autobiography of he and Jackson sitting in the Chalmers automobile offered as a prize to the winner. The car was definitely pre-1922 vintage. I also note that Chalmers ultimately gave each player a car.)

[Arkham House]

16. It was Nap Lajoie, not Jackson...

...and he and Cobb were chasing the batting title. A car manufacturer promised a new auto to the winner...and Cobb, being Cobb, was hated all over the league, and Lajoie, a quiet, respected player, was the overwhelming favorite. Cobb had a large lead on the last day of the season, and Lajoie's Indians were playing the Browns in a double-header. St Louis' manager had his third baseman play in the shallow outfield, and Lajoie beat out about 7 or 8 bunts to "win" the title. Ban Johnson, President of the AL, thought this was an outrage--as indeed it was--and basically made up a hit or two for Cobb, to give him the title he had earned. To this day, no one knows who "really" won the 1910 batting title--rather like no one knows who "really" won the 1908 NL pennant...most reference books mention Cobb, one, I think, gives it to Lajoie...and the World Almanac, God help us, has an asterisk... In any event, the next year, the car company decided to ignore stats and give the car to the best over-all player...thereby inaugurating the first MVP award... As for 1922--George Sisler won the batting title at .420, but a disputed official scorer's decision gave Cobb a third .400 season, at .401...and there is good reason to think that a flagrantly homer official scorer's decision gave Dimaggio a gift hit in 1941 to keep the streak going...

[flvegan]

18. How "juicing" would help a pitcher depends

on the juice.

How about a pitcher that needs no recovery, feels no pain? No elbow nor shoulder pain, could pitch 9 innings, every day, bringing the high heat the whole time? Add to that 10 mph on a fastball. Add to that the aggression, the "zone" mindset.

Steroids aren't all about making big muscles. Some will mask pain, promote energy and focus and shred fat.

I think that the steroid issue goes WAY beyond Bonds, et al. If he used (and he shows all the signs of a user that isn't using anymore, to me) then so be it. If folks really want steroids out of sports, I hope they're ready for a smaller show.

You're right, if they're going to call it cheating, then do so universally. Otherwise, they need to dump the whole idea.

[BulletproofLandshark]

15. Thank You

What's lost in all this is that no one has proven a goddamned thing about Bonds and steroids yet, but a large portion of the public is all but ready to convict him. I guess all the people whining about his "cheating" have never heard of due process.

[flvegan]

19. You should read into steroids more.

Understand how they work, how prevalent they are in sports and what they can actually do.

Bonds is showing every single sign of someone that used that isn't using anymore. I'm not "convicting" him, I'm just being logical. He shows all the signs of using, and all the signs of quitting. If that is the case, good for him for quitting. An early grave isn't worth it.

I hope that he didn't use. Though, didn't he said he used that BALCO cream stuff...unknowingly, of course? I'd like to believe he's a superior player with major skills.

[JVS]

20. May he choke and die!